/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-07-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jul 12 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Hixie> (shutting down discussions about my being a dictator is more likely to cause drama than letting a low-level discussion occur)
  4. # [00:00] <KrocCamen> Keep up the good work is all I can say.
  5. # [00:01] <KrocCamen> How can anybody not agree that this is the most exciting time for web development there has been.
  6. # [00:01] <jgraham> Yeah I wasn't really suggesting you shut it down
  7. # [00:01] <fagan> well ignoring those kind of things is the best way of keeping the drama down
  8. # [00:01] <jgraham> Just complaining :)
  9. # [00:01] <fagan> its a big problem for public mailing lists sometimes
  10. # [00:06] <fagan> its interesting that http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml is the most linked page on this channel
  11. # [00:07] <Hixie> jgraham: i hear ya :-)
  12. # [00:07] * fagan was just looking at the stats
  13. # [00:07] <Hixie> fagan: that's the xhtml5 namespace
  14. # [00:07] <Hixie> so it makes sense
  15. # [00:07] <fagan> true
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  17. # [00:12] <fagan> Hixie: what happens after HTML5 is finalised? Do we start talking HTML6?
  18. # [00:12] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-160-217.unitymediagroup.de)
  19. # [00:14] <Hixie> in the whatwg we've already moved on from html5 -- if you look at the spec you'll see it talks about "HTML", not "HTML5"
  20. # [00:14] <Hixie> as or in the w3c, i dunno
  21. # [00:15] <fagan> :)
  22. # [00:15] <fagan> Oh didnt notice the change
  23. # [00:19] <aho> html 7 ex plus alpha turbo championship edition
  24. # [00:19] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@133.27.228.171) (Quit: kennyluck)
  25. # [00:20] <fagan> aho: lol
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  28. # [00:27] <fagan> hmmmm is the "the" supposed to be behind the "web" in "web hypertext application technology" on this page http://www.whatwg.org/specs/
  29. # [00:27] <Hixie> yes
  30. # [00:28] <fagan> ah ok so its not a bug its a feature
  31. # [00:28] <Hixie> my styling abilities leave a lot to be desired for :-)
  32. # [00:28] <fagan> well my style isnt any better http://shanefagan.com
  33. # [00:28] <fagan> :D
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  35. # [00:30] * fagan at least used some HTML5 on one of his posts
  36. # [00:33] <fagan> just the video tag though I wordpress butchered my attempt at using <canvas>
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  39. # [00:34] <fagan> just the video tag though I wordpress butchered my attempt at using <canvas>
  40. # [00:35] <fagan> I have played with it on a test website though so fun but I cant draw for the life of me
  41. # [00:35] <fagan> canvas is awesome though
  42. # [00:35] * fagan high fives whoever had the idea
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  44. # [00:41] <KrocCamen> Apple
  45. # [00:42] * fagan high fives apple
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  209. # [10:33] <annevk> again with the rain
  210. # [10:33] <annevk> at least I'm inside
  211. # [10:42] <zcorpan_> annevk: we haven't had rain for weeks here
  212. # [10:43] <Rik`> same here
  213. # [10:43] <Rik`> and it is most welcome, temperatures are down
  214. # [10:43] <annevk> we had some hail yesterday in between 25-30 degree heat
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  216. # [10:44] <annevk> very large hail, even, almost golf ball sized
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  218. # [10:53] <annevk> hsivonen, so if it's not XML5, what work on the XML parser is needed then?
  219. # [10:53] * jgraham predicts off-the-main-thread parsing
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  221. # [10:54] <annevk> but XML is hardly used, is that worth the effort?
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  224. # [11:01] <jgraham> Maybe it helps for SVG content which could be very large
  225. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> privacy workshop is in progress
  226. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> minutes are here:
  227. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2010/07/12-privacy-minutes.html
  228. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> (refresh that once in in while to get the latest)
  229. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> and/or join #privacy on the W3C IRC server
  230. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> irc.w3.org, port 6665 or 80
  231. # [11:13] <annevk> cheers MikeSmith
  232. # [11:13] <annevk> saw some of it on twitter already
  233. # [11:13] <Peter`> yup, thank you
  234. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> I think the 16:00-17:30 agenda slot will be especially interesting
  235. # [11:14] <MikeSmith> that's when Ian Fette and Marcos Caceres will be presenting
  236. # [11:15] <annevk> are any UI experts there?
  237. # [11:16] <MikeSmith> dunno
  238. # [11:16] <MikeSmith> Aza Raskin submitted a paper
  239. # [11:16] <MikeSmith> but not sure if he will be attending
  240. # [11:16] <annevk> but he's not presenting?
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  242. # [11:16] <annevk> hmm
  243. # [11:16] <annevk> privacy UI would be interesting to read/see something about
  244. # [11:17] <MikeSmith> annevk: both Marcos and Ian Fette's paper also focus some on UI stuff
  245. # [11:18] <MikeSmith> Aza and Arun's paper proposes have a standard set of icons that signal info about privacy conditions
  246. # [11:19] <annevk> yeah, the Chrome paper was pretty good
  247. # [11:19] <MikeSmith> *proposes a standard set of icons
  248. # [11:19] <annevk> Marcos' paper didn't discuss how the problems could be addressed unfortunately
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  250. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> there was a somewhat interesting side discussion about UI just now
  251. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> I refreshed the minutes
  252. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> see exchange with fette and hendry
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  257. # [11:33] <annevk> hopefully someone writes a short blog post in the end with conclusions
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  271. # [12:36] <annevk> note to self: hybi list participation does not seem worth it
  272. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> annevk: there's some cathartic value in it at least
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  290. # [14:00] <zcorpan_> maybe speculative parsing for xml?
  291. # [14:03] <adactio> I'm trying to find the page on the wiki that hixie set up to document various kinds of text on video (karaoke, subtitles, etc.) but I'm not having much luck. Anyone got the URL?
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  296. # [14:10] <Workshiva> adactio: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Use_cases_for_timed_tracks_rendered_over_video_by_the_UA
  297. # [14:10] <adactio> Workshiva: Thanks!
  298. # [14:10] <Workshiva> There are some other pages, but I think that's the one you mean
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  334. # [16:06] <karlcow> http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/html5-id-class
  335. # [16:07] <karlcow> Topic: Access Control is an Inadequate Framework for Privacy Protection
  336. # [16:07] <karlcow> lalana: I do not propose any technical solutions.
  337. # [16:08] * Joins: Matjas (5bb629be@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.182.41.190)
  338. # [16:08] <karlcow> ... I will propose future directions researchs.
  339. # [16:09] <karlcow> ... Brandeis = access to information
  340. # [16:09] <karlcow> ... willis = use of information
  341. # [16:09] <Peter`> karlcow: wrong channel I think?
  342. # [16:09] <karlcow> doh
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  370. # [17:31] <karlcow> Thanks Pe
  371. # [17:31] <karlcow> Thanks Peter`
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  390. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> how has the meaning of the <em> element changed in HTML5?
  391. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> I have it marked as "changed" because somebody suggested I should
  392. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> but I can't remember what they said had changed about it
  393. # [18:17] * aroben is now known as aroben|lunch
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  395. # [18:18] <Workshiva> MikeSmith: Could it be some trivial detail that nobody actually cares about?
  396. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> heh
  397. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> I'm sure it is
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  399. # [18:18] <Workshiva> I suppose you can't check html5-diffs :)
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  401. # [18:21] <MikeSmith> Workshiva: it doesn't mention anything about em having changed
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  405. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> I think Oli (boblet) was the one who has split hairs about this
  406. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> e.g., http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20100222#l-279
  407. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> pointing out that the spec says "stress emphasis"
  408. # [18:22] <MikeSmith> whatever the hell that's supposed to mean…
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  414. # [18:26] <jgraham> MikeSmith: It sounds like you can solve your problem by ignoring it
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  416. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> I'm good at that
  417. # [18:27] <MikeSmith> good match for my skill set
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  419. # [18:28] <MikeSmith> when I was in elementary school, I always got A's for "ignores well" on my report card
  420. # [18:29] <jgraham> I mean people love to argue about tiny demantic details
  421. # [18:29] <jgraham> *semantic
  422. # [18:29] <jgraham> But then never do anything with all the semantics
  423. # [18:29] <miketaylr> demantics sounds cooler
  424. # [18:30] <jgraham> So it is just a waste of entropy
  425. # [18:34] * ojan_bug_42007 is now known as ojan
  426. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: No, it didn't change in any meaningful way. <strong> did, *slightly*, only to make it something other than <em>++.
  427. # [18:35] <GPHemsley> I thought it was changed to stress that <em> !== <i>
  428. # [18:36] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: Oli asserts that it has changed -- see http://html5doctor.com/i-b-em-strong-element/
  429. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> "<em> — was emphasis, now for stress emphasis, i.e., something you’d pronounce differently"
  430. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's the "didn't change in any meaningful way" part.
  431. # [18:38] <MikeSmith> "something you’d pronounce differently" is a way that the spec *could* state it, I suppose … but it actually doesn't
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  459. # [20:00] <KaOSoFt> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/07/12/1543248/How-To-Use-HTML5-Today
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  502. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> Ah, finally got <audio> to work well in the browser. It was tricky to figure out how to handle a single sound being played multiple overlapping times.
  503. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> (The answer is to create multiple <audio>s with the same src, and just cycle through the set.)
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  510. # [22:05] <erlehmann> TabAtkins what are you building with <audio> ?
  511. # [22:05] <TabAtkins> http://www.xanthir.com/collidingcircles
  512. # [22:05] <TabAtkins> Click around in the black square a bit.
  513. # [22:12] <cardona507> TabAtkins: nice work
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  517. # [22:17] <TabAtkins> Thanks, cardona507. Just me playing around with <canvas> and <audio>, based on a challenge from brucel to replicate a Flash app that did approximately the same.
  518. # [22:18] <cardona507> very cool
  519. # [22:18] <gsnedders> Taking up challenges from brucel tends to be a bad idea
  520. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> Well, in this case it was good. I successfully finished it, and learned stuff in the process.
  521. # [22:20] * TabAtkins figures he should actually learn <canvas> and such, since he's off doing talks about it.
  522. # [22:21] <cardona507> :)
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  544. # [23:35] <Hixie> ok so this may seem like a dumb question
  545. # [23:35] <Hixie> but
  546. # [23:36] <Hixie> where does css require that UAs implement the CSS box model?
  547. # [23:37] <annevk> "A user agent is any program that interprets a document written in the document language and applies associated style sheets according to the terms of this specification."
  548. # [23:37] <annevk> -- http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/conform.html
  549. # [23:38] <Hixie> k
  550. # [23:39] <annevk> I think that statement is how CSS gets away with fluffy language, but you would know better having been an active editor and all :)
  551. # [23:39] <Hixie> when i was an editor (and still now) i thought we should scrap css's current text and rewrite it using rfc2119 terms
  552. # [23:40] <Hixie> so...
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  554. # [23:40] <annevk> fair enough
  555. # [23:42] <annevk> I wonder how long CSS 2.1 will continue to be patched
  556. # [23:45] <Slaanesh> Until all the relevant CSS 3 equivalents are CR?
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  558. # [23:46] <annevk> "CSS3" is just patches applies to CSS 2.1
  559. # [23:46] <annevk> applied, even
  560. # [23:46] <Hixie> we should just do the same as with html
  561. # [23:46] <Hixie> and have one "CSS" spec
  562. # [23:46] <Hixie> but anyway
  563. # [23:47] <annevk> if we had someone to do it that'd be great
  564. # [23:47] <Hixie> yeah
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  571. # Session Close: Tue Jul 13 00:00:00 2010

The end :)