/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-07-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jul 17 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  11. # [00:19] <KevinMarks> grr at firefox fro not supporting mp3 in <audio> and not failng properly
  12. # [00:20] <TabAtkins> mp3 isn't royalty-free. What do you mean "not failing properly"?
  13. # [00:21] <KevinMarks> if it refused to play it and displayed the fallback code, that would be lovely
  14. # [00:21] <KevinMarks> I coudl put the flash emebd inside the audio tag
  15. # [00:21] <KevinMarks> but instead it displays a completely useless grey box with an X in it
  16. # [00:21] <KevinMarks> so I am going to have to default to flash
  17. # [00:22] <KevinMarks> if I want to use audio declaratively
  18. # [00:22] <TabAtkins> That's not how <audio> and <video> are supposed to fail. Their fallback contents are for legacy browsers, not for unsupported codecs.
  19. # [00:22] * Joins: f1lt3r (~f1lt3r@64.119.159.231)
  20. # [00:22] <KevinMarks> yes, adn that supposition si wrong
  21. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> It's not "wrong". It can't be. It can be different than what you want, though.
  22. # [00:23] <KevinMarks> er
  23. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> Anyway, just throw a tiny bit of javascript at it that asks the <audio> if it can play mp3s, and replaces it if it can't.
  24. # [00:23] <KevinMarks> I am saying that the spec is wrong
  25. # [00:24] <KevinMarks> because it breaks if I write declarative code
  26. # [00:24] <TabAtkins> No, the spec can be different thatn what you expect, or suboptimal. It can't be "wrong" in this case, because it's not declaring a statement of fact.
  27. # [00:25] <KevinMarks> the spec is misdesigned then
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  29. # [00:25] <KevinMarks> happy now?
  30. # [00:25] <TabAtkins> Yes. ^_^
  31. # [00:26] <TabAtkins> Anyway, the discussion about <audio>/<video> fallback has been had several times. It is almost certain not to be changed at this point, because the way you want it to act requires crazy code on the browser side.
  32. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> What happens, for example, if your <audio> starts with no playable <source>s, but then you later add one it can play with js?
  33. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> Does it stop and tear down the Flash? Does it ignore the new <source>?
  34. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> Does this mean that the order in which you insert <source>s and other contents can have an effect on what happens?
  35. # [00:29] <KevinMarks> so instead you require crazy code on the client side
  36. # [00:29] <TabAtkins> You have a very low definition of "crazy".
  37. # [00:30] <TabAtkins> It's like three lines, plus whatever js is necessary to do an embed.
  38. # [00:33] * Joins: Cheery (~cheery@a88-113-49-213.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  39. # [00:33] <Cheery> hi
  40. # [00:34] <Cheery> I've got a question about WebSocket. Are you sure the handshake is good to be GET?
  41. # [00:34] <hsivonen> KevinMarks: It's easier to offer Vorbis than to do a Flash fallback :-)
  42. # [00:34] <KevinMarks> no it fucking isn't
  43. # [00:34] <Cheery> I've understood GET can be cached and such.
  44. # [00:35] <Cheery> so it makes me wonder, shouldn't it be POST -method?
  45. # [00:35] <KevinMarks> Firefox will happily route an mp3 to a plgin if I use <iframe>
  46. # [00:35] <Cheery> for anything else, I happily ignore flash if I can.
  47. # [00:35] <KevinMarks> or object
  48. # [00:35] <KevinMarks> or embed
  49. # [00:35] <hsivonen> KevinMarks: not on Maemo
  50. # [00:35] <franksalim> Cheery, a 101 switching protocols response cannot be cached
  51. # [00:36] <KevinMarks> course Android is worse
  52. # [00:36] <TabAtkins> KevinMarks: Plugins are a completely separate story. They just happened to be on the other side of the "worth compromising principles over".
  53. # [00:36] <KevinMarks> it 'supports' <audio>
  54. # [00:36] <Cheery> franksalim: which portion of WebSocket -spec makes it a switching protocol?
  55. # [00:36] <KevinMarks> except no formats at all
  56. # [00:37] <hsivonen> KevinMarks: huh. that's silly
  57. # [00:37] <TabAtkins> Agreed, that's pretty silly.
  58. # [00:37] <KevinMarks> Look: http://homepage.mac.com/kevinmarks/audiotest1c.html
  59. # [00:37] <franksalim> Cheery, the server response HTTP/1.1 101 WebSocket Protocol Handshake
  60. # [00:37] <hsivonen> KevinMarks: you are talking about the Android Browser, right? not Firefox on Android?
  61. # [00:37] <Cheery> 101 -there.. oh IC
  62. # [00:37] <KevinMarks> yes, I'm talking about the one with an installed base
  63. # [00:38] <Cheery> franksalim: thank you from clarifying. :) I have more questions about websocket.
  64. # [00:38] <Cheery> why such complicated handshaking mechanism? why three keys?
  65. # [00:39] <Cheery> also, where's UDP?
  66. # [00:39] <Cheery> (which would be a welcome introduction)
  67. # [00:40] <Cheery> and.. that's it. pretty much other in websocket makes sense to me.
  68. # [00:41] <AryehGregor> The handshake is to avoid various security problems. A lot of care is needed, since any web page can trigger a WebSocket request, so the browser needs to be sure it's not being abused somehow.
  69. # [00:41] <AryehGregor> (dunno all the specifics)
  70. # [00:41] <franksalim> Cheery, UDP would need a different protocol and NAT/firewall/proxy traversal work
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  72. # [00:41] <AryehGregor> UDP doesn't fit into those requirements at all.
  73. # [00:42] <AryehGregor> You'd have to get rid of the handshake, but then you need something else to ensure security (like what?).
  74. # [00:42] <franksalim> I am interested in the thinking behind the three key design. Has that been described in public?
  75. # [00:42] <Cheery> AryehGregor: not to mention it's connectionless.. yeah.
  76. # [00:42] <AryehGregor> I'm sure it's been described in public.
  77. # [00:42] <AryehGregor> All the WebSocket development is public as far as I know.
  78. # [00:43] <franksalim> AryehGregor, I would be grateful for a link :-)
  79. # [00:43] * AryehGregor doesn't know where it is
  80. # [00:43] <AryehGregor> You'd think websockets.org would mention it.
  81. # [00:43] <AryehGregor> At the IETF somewhere, I guess?
  82. # [00:44] <Cheery> Maybe I'll have to resort with TCP sockets only.. websockets are anyway already quite all right.
  83. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> I think this is it: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/hybi
  84. # [00:44] <Cheery> planning a multiplayer write into platformer game: http://boxbase.org/fun/knights/
  85. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> There's a lot of archived stuff.
  86. # [00:44] <franksalim> I found the monster thread about the handshake redesign
  87. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> I'm pretty sure it's a recurring topic there.
  88. # [00:45] <franksalim> but IIRC, it started with a proposed design and was not designed on list
  89. # [00:45] * franksalim goes off to read
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  100. # [01:47] <KevinMarks> OK, so what is this 'tiny bit of javascript' to tell if the declarative audio tag with an mp3 in it is a useless waste of space?
  101. # [01:47] <KevinMarks> 'cos what I'm trying isn't working
  102. # [01:47] <TabAtkins> Create an audio, use canPlayType() to query it.
  103. # [01:47] <TabAtkins> If it can't, then grab all the audios, loop through them, and replace them with embed code.
  104. # [01:48] <TabAtkins> That's the simple way. You can be slightly more robust at the cost of a bit more code, but this'll work for the simple case of "I only have an mp3, but can feed it to flash for fallback."
  105. # [01:50] <KevinMarks> Ihave to create a new audio, I can't use an element I declared?
  106. # [01:50] <KevinMarks> I'd like to know if that specific one worked...
  107. # [01:51] <TabAtkins> Sure, you could do that too.
  108. # [01:51] <TabAtkins> Any audio will respond the same.
  109. # [01:51] * TabAtkins is gone for a bit.
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  127. # [02:07] <MikeSmith> Chrome has an experimental context-menu API?
  128. # [02:07] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/chrome/extensions/dev/experimental.contextMenus.html
  129. # [02:08] <Cheery> I enjoyed talking with you guys. it helped me understand your design choices behind websocket.
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  132. # [02:13] <MikeSmith> http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/extensions/context-menu-api
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  139. # [02:25] <karlcow> Google and Apple joined IDPF (epub standard) http://reading20.posterous.com/idpf-grows
  140. # [02:26] <karlcow> that will change the dynamic… maybe
  141. # [02:34] <MikeSmith> some Apple people had already been attending the ePub 2.1 meetings anyway
  142. # [02:34] <gsnedders> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/07/16/how-ie9-platform-preview-feedback-changed-the-javascript-standard.aspx
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  147. # [02:36] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: great posting
  148. # [02:37] <MikeSmith> I wonder why chrome team is not also or instead implementing the HTML5 context-menu mechanism
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  150. # [02:37] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/interactive-elements.html#context-menus
  151. # [02:37] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: That's an excellent question.
  152. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: maybe it's just a simple case that nobody realized it's in the spec
  153. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> it's an easy feature to miss, really
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  155. # [02:38] <MikeSmith> and no other browser projects have shown signs of implementing it yet either
  156. # [02:39] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Nod. I'm asking around.
  157. # [02:39] <MikeSmith> cool
  158. # [02:42] <wirepair> hey MikeSmith
  159. # [02:43] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: At the time we started working on that, the HTML5 stuff either didn't exist or was still pretty obviously immature.
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  161. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> the HTML5 stuff has been in the spec since forever, relatively
  162. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> and has not really changed at all
  163. # [02:49] <TabAtkins> I'll investigate later to see what they think of the current stuff.
  164. # [02:49] <TabAtkins> Right now I'm too busy drinking.
  165. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> heh
  166. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> cheers
  167. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> wirepair: hey man
  168. # [02:50] <MikeSmith> wirepair: I found another sento in my neighborhood that's only 15-minutes walk, and open on Fridays (which my normal one ain't)
  169. # [02:50] <MikeSmith> you got to try out the sento lifestyle
  170. # [02:51] <MikeSmith> one downside I notice is that in summertime I get really sleepy after going to sento in the late evening
  171. # [02:52] <MikeSmith> so hard to get work done after
  172. # [02:52] <MikeSmith> but I guess being able to fall asleep easier at normal sleeping time maybe is more of an upside than a downside
  173. # [02:57] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: (when you get back0
  174. # [02:57] <MikeSmith> oops
  175. # [02:57] <wirepair> MikeSmith nice, i just moved out of tokyo
  176. # [02:57] <wirepair> down south of yokohama, well, will be i came to san fran for a month to hang out and work remotely ;)
  177. # [02:58] <wirepair> making serious progress on my browser testing system, now supports an external runner app, and a javascript based version for running through testcases ;)
  178. # [02:59] <wirepair> once i finish making sure the browser automation stuff is solid, going to work on building testcases/importing old chrome/firefox regressions
  179. # [02:59] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: (when you get back) the proposal at http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/extensions/context-menu-api seems to just be from earlier this year .. regardless, I am fairly certain the HTML5 context-menu stuff has not changed at all since the time that API was conceived, so if the existing spec was judged to be pretty obviously immature that time, then it is just as immature now
  180. # [03:00] <MikeSmith> and maybe other browser projects would judge it to be immature also
  181. # [03:01] <MikeSmith> ..if so, would seems to argue for having mailing-list discussion about it, and getting more feedback to help improve the spec
  182. # [03:01] <MikeSmith> wirepair: sounds great
  183. # [03:01] <MikeSmith> have you been talking with Sylvain?
  184. # [03:01] <MikeSmith> or the other testing folk?
  185. # [03:01] <wirepair> just syp
  186. # [03:02] <wirepair> i went with a different automation method
  187. # [03:02] <wirepair> using ldtp for *nix and pywinauto for windows
  188. # [03:02] <wirepair> then i have the js version as a back up
  189. # [03:02] <MikeSmith> wirepair: btw, TabAtkins is also involved with some of the browser-testing work with syp and others at W3C
  190. # [03:02] <wirepair> oh cool, good to know
  191. # [03:03] <wirepair> wrote a real real quick blog post on it: http://kougekiryoku.blogspot.com/2010/06/introducing-wbts-wbts.html
  192. # [03:04] <MikeSmith> nice posting
  193. # [03:04] <MikeSmith> cool to see that you're using twisted
  194. # [03:04] <MikeSmith> but maybe you'll have to do what all the cool kids are doing and switch to node.js
  195. # [03:05] <wirepair> ha
  196. # [03:05] <wirepair> unless they have a node-dns.js i don't think so ;)
  197. # [03:05] <wirepair> having a built in dns server is key.
  198. # [03:08] <TabAtkins> MikeSmith: Ok. Yeah, I'll talk to the relevant dudes on Monday.
  199. # [03:08] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: thanks and go back to your tipple :)
  200. # [03:09] <TabAtkins> Done with that now. All the work is on my liver at this point.
  201. # [03:09] <MikeSmith> heh
  202. # [03:09] <TabAtkins> I'll take my notebook and be very studious.
  203. # [03:09] <TabAtkins> I should familiarize myself more with the html5 api this weekend so I'm prepared.
  204. # [03:10] * Quits: ap (~ap@17.246.17.28) (Quit: ap)
  205. # [03:12] <MikeSmith> TabAtkins: I think it's pretty simple: you just create a <menu> element in the DOM, with an ID on it, and you put the @contextmenu attribute, with a ref to that ID, on whatever element(s) you want that context menu to show up on
  206. # [03:13] <MikeSmith> wirepair: what's the elevator pitch for MongoDB?
  207. # [03:13] <MikeSmith> similar to couch?
  208. # [03:14] <wirepair> elevator pitch?
  209. # [03:14] <wirepair> not sure i follow
  210. # [03:14] <TabAtkins> 1 minute summary
  211. # [03:14] <wirepair> ahh gotcha
  212. # [03:15] <wirepair> it is similar to couch, but has a binary protocol
  213. # [03:15] <wirepair> the idea of using http requests for accessing a db is pretty silly imho
  214. # [03:16] <wirepair> also it had a twisted client already written
  215. # [03:16] <wirepair> and it's super easy to work with creating new documents is a breeze
  216. # [03:16] <MikeSmith> I see
  217. # [03:17] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@bas1-toronto06-1096637604.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: davidb)
  218. # [03:17] <wirepair> also cross-platform support is good, no need for installation just ./mongodb --dbpath=wherever
  219. # [03:17] <MikeSmith> nice
  220. # [03:17] <wirepair> so yeah that's pretty much it
  221. # [03:30] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/MeetingMinutes100707
  222. # [03:30] <MikeSmith> [[
  223. # [03:30] <MikeSmith> Markus: we have other options besides HTML5, like XForms
  224. # [03:30] <MikeSmith> Peter-: XForms is basically dead
  225. # [03:30] <MikeSmith> Markus: well, yes
  226. # [03:30] <MikeSmith> ]]
  227. # [03:33] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/TextContent
  228. # [03:33] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/TextContent#Requirements
  229. # [03:34] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/p/epub-revision/wiki/TextContent#Migration_to_HTML5
  230. # [03:34] <MikeSmith> "WG members may put forward counterproposals to the move towards HTML5. Until such counterproposals appear, the requirements listed in this section are written assuming that the HTML5 adoption is done."
  231. # [03:37] <MikeSmith> "Requirement: Documents adhering to the EPUB adaption of HTML5 must be compliant XML documents."
  232. # [03:38] <MikeSmith> MURATA: I like XML, but will content providers listen to us? Won't they anyway create non-XML HTML documents anyway?
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  234. # [03:38] <MikeSmith> bravo Murata-san
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  236. # [03:38] <MikeSmith> "Dan Hughes: Agree. If the spec - and downstream distributor/device/software - requires valid XML, content providers will produce it."
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  239. # [03:42] <MikeSmith> "Rationale: EPUB as a whole remains an XML-based framework. Allowing the HTML serialization of HTML5 in EPUB would mean that all reading systems would have to ship with two parsers; homogenizing the serialization to XML at production time seems more economical."
  240. # [03:42] <MikeSmith> they are already going to be shipping with two parsers, if they are using any modern browser engine
  241. # [03:43] <MikeSmith> and if they are using a browser engine that can do anything with HTML5 content
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  250. # [05:03] <MikeSmith> http://openwebcamp.org/ looks pretty cool
  251. # [05:06] <boblet> paul_irish: yt?
  252. # [05:06] <MikeSmith> me notices estellevw on the speakers list
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  256. # [05:16] <paul_irish> boblet: yo! nice shots
  257. # [05:17] <boblet> paul_irish: heh, thanks :) seems like you tweeted about html5homi.es first so dunno if it’s you or Jon I should be pinging for inclusion
  258. # [05:17] * boblet starts to worry about if there’s a gang initiation
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  262. # [05:19] <boblet> MikeSmith: btw you got the msg about flyers yah?
  263. # [05:19] <MikeSmithX> ye-up
  264. # [05:19] <MikeSmithX> thanks
  265. # [05:20] <boblet> np. I’m making a Japanese version so prolly should try to distribute these ones asap, and thought I’d co-opt you into that
  266. # [05:20] <MikeSmithX> ok
  267. # [05:21] * Joins: micheil (~micheil@124-170-2-191.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  268. # [05:21] * MikeSmithX flashes HTML5 gang sign at MikeSmith
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  270. # [05:21] * MikeSmithX is now known as MikeSmith
  271. # [05:25] <boblet> MikeSmith: btw my post to the IEblog about @font-face hasn’t been approved :|
  272. # [05:25] <boblet> well… yet anyhow
  273. # [05:26] <boblet> a bunch of others have tho
  274. # [05:27] <MikeSmith> go figure
  275. # [05:28] <MikeSmith> maybe they are blocking based on IP address
  276. # [05:28] <MikeSmith> e.g., blocking postings from asia IP ranges or something
  277. # [05:28] <MikeSmith> I have seen other sites do stupid things like that
  278. # [05:29] <MikeSmith> based on the assumption that nobody from china or japan or whatever has any use for their site
  279. # [05:29] <MikeSmith> the (un)logic them being that if comments from jp or china ip address, must be spammer
  280. # [05:32] <boblet> possible
  281. # [05:32] <boblet> oh well, whatevs
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  284. # [06:02] <paul_irish> boblet: its jon. :) all him
  285. # [06:02] <paul_irish> well and now slex does the domain.
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  287. # [06:02] <boblet> paul_irish: slex? anyhoo, hopefully Jon can add me to the posse later :)
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  290. # [06:03] <paul_irish> boblet: slexaxton. he will! also what was you comment on the ieblog post?
  291. # [06:05] <boblet> just mentioned some cross-browser examples from ’09; Craig Mod’s…
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  293. # [06:06] <paul_irish> oh. yah ieblog approves in batches.
  294. # [06:06] <boblet> paul_irish: also the three http://nicewebtype.com/fonts/ demos
  295. # [06:07] <boblet> paul_irish: well I posted when there were 2 comments. still nice they gave you some props :)
  296. # [06:09] <paul_irish> yeah not bad! :)
  297. # [06:09] <boblet> also nice to see they’re getting back on the horse huh
  298. # [06:10] <paul_irish> bigtime.
  299. # [06:10] <boblet> big(about f’in)time?
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  301. # [06:17] <paul_irish> boblet: u dun got inisheeat'd
  302. # [06:19] <boblet> paul_irish: aiiit boyee! dat’s wat I’m talkin’ about
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  307. # [06:48] <boblet> JonathanNeal: wassup homie. thankx for the add
  308. # [06:48] <JonathanNeal> my pleasure, and thank you.
  309. # [06:49] <boblet> the initiation was a bit brutal, having to shiv all those pages for IE
  310. # [06:49] <boblet> gotta wash the angle brackets off my hands
  311. # [06:50] <JonathanNeal> what are you talking about, shimming for ie?
  312. # [06:51] <boblet> JonathanNeal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_(weapon)
  313. # [06:51] <JonathanNeal> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(computing)
  314. # [06:52] <JonathanNeal> http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-experiments/phase-01.html
  315. # [06:52] <JonathanNeal> "The term shiv originates from John Resig, the creator of jQuery, who used the word as a metaphor to describe shiving support for HTML5 elements into Internet Explorer via javascript, where shiving is a slang term for a sharp object used as a knife-like weapon. There's also a chance that John had a moment of false etymology and meant to use the word shim, which in computing means an application compatibility workaroun
  316. # [06:52] <JonathanNeal> d."
  317. # [06:55] <boblet> heh
  318. # [06:56] <boblet> so I take it my attempt to combine gang and HTML language didn’t quite work out?
  319. # [06:56] <franksalim> so it's an eggcorn. an awesome eggcorn
  320. # [06:57] <franksalim> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggcorn
  321. # [06:58] <boblet> franksalim: thanks for that
  322. # [06:58] <JonathanNeal> Oh I see what you did there, boblet
  323. # [06:58] <boblet> “mating name for maiden name” lolz
  324. # [06:59] <JonathanNeal> btw, I added your pic to the sandbox gang sign page
  325. # [06:59] <JonathanNeal> http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html5-gang-sign/
  326. # [06:59] <boblet> JonathanNeal: oh, two different sites? thanks again
  327. # [06:59] <boblet> (figured it was the same thing with a nice domain)
  328. # [07:00] <JonathanNeal> boblet, sandbox is where it started, but it spread wings and became something better
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  330. # [07:00] <JonathanNeal> homi.es
  331. # [07:01] <boblet> indeedy. I shoulda taken the photos yesterday, but oh well
  332. # [07:01] <JonathanNeal> so, on the subject of whatwg and html5, boblet have you seen http://sandbox.thewikies.com/html-templates/html5.html ?
  333. # [07:02] <JonathanNeal> or any of the other templates in that directory?
  334. # [07:02] * boblet looks
  335. # [07:06] <boblet> JonathanNeal: are these general purpose or for internal use?
  336. # [07:07] <JonathanNeal> I'd like to use them to share.
  337. # [07:07] <JonathanNeal> And for all projects I start.
  338. # [07:08] <boblet> you’d probably want to start with a bunch of things commented out if shared (eg viewport, apple touch icon)
  339. # [07:09] <boblet> #content seems suitable for section or article depending on content
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  341. # [07:10] <JonathanNeal> it focuses on all the basics you might use.
  342. # [07:11] <boblet> for the microdata itemprop="fn org" won’t map to any text in output (you ’d need to change to eg CSS image replacement
  343. # [07:13] <boblet> that’s about all I can say without seeing content. good base
  344. # [07:13] <JonathanNeal> what
  345. # [07:13] <JonathanNeal> i didn't do that
  346. # [07:14] <JonathanNeal> wait, i thought you said something else
  347. # [07:14] <JonathanNeal> why is that bad what I did?
  348. # [07:14] <boblet> what specifically?
  349. # [07:14] <JonathanNeal> it will map the alt text of the img
  350. # [07:14] <JonathanNeal> I remember this, specifically.
  351. # [07:15] <boblet> JonathanNeal: oh really. huh. didn’t realise that. thanks
  352. # [07:15] <JonathanNeal> Because I was originally putting it on the img itself, and there was this feud over that.
  353. # [07:15] <JonathanNeal> that fn org shouldn't be expected to read the alt text for an image
  354. # [07:15] <JonathanNeal> but from the container, it was okay.
  355. # [07:15] <boblet> looks like I haven’t microdata’ed any images yet
  356. # [07:16] <JonathanNeal> boblet, any validators / readers on the web?
  357. # [07:16] * Joins: deepthawtz (~deepthawt@c-67-180-92-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  358. # [07:16] <boblet> foolip’s Live Microdata tis all atm http://foolip.org/microdatajs/live/
  359. # [07:16] <boblet> luckily it’s pretty good
  360. # [07:18] <JonathanNeal> it doesn't like what i did.
  361. # [07:19] <boblet> checking microdata spec
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  363. # [07:24] <boblet> guess alt text is the img element’s textContent
  364. # [07:26] <boblet> Hixie: so for an image is the img element’s textContent it’s alt text?
  365. # [07:26] <boblet> (or anyone else)
  366. # [07:27] <boblet> JonathanNeal: oh yeah, the \t\n is because it acts like <pre> so whitespace is significant. not sure this is a good thing actually
  367. # [07:30] <boblet> might email the list about this
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  369. # [07:47] <boblet> JonathanNeal: mind if I include that template in an email to WHATWG list?
  370. # [07:49] <JonathanNeal> yea, use any part of it
  371. # [07:49] <JonathanNeal> totally
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  379. # [08:33] <boblet> JonathanNeal: got word from Mike that @src isn’t part of textcontent
  380. # [08:33] <boblet> JonathanNeal: do you have a ref for where you learned about it?
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  419. # [12:10] <jgraham> MikeSmith: It seems the ePub people need a small amount of cluebat applied on the virtues of XML and relative difficulty of adding a HTML parser
  420. # [12:10] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Also, what did gsnedders post that was good?
  421. # [12:10] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@213.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  422. # [12:11] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I think there is not clear consensus in the ePub WG about that particular requirement
  423. # [12:11] <MikeSmith> certainly Murata-san is highly skeptical about it
  424. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> and given that he was one of the members of the WG that came up with XML to begin with, as well as somebody that has invested a huge amount of his professional work in XML-related technologies…
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  426. # [12:13] <MikeSmith> well, you'd think they might be inclined to listen to Murata-san very carefully when he says something about XML
  427. # [12:13] <MikeSmith> jgraham: the gsnedders thing was about the last IEBlog posting
  428. # [12:15] <gsnedders> jgraham: I would ask you if I could borrow a loaf tin today, presuming you have one, but with the eather now…
  429. # [12:16] <jgraham> Yeah, the ether is often a problem around here
  430. # [12:16] <gsnedders> *weather
  431. # [12:17] <gsnedders> I fail.
  432. # [12:18] <jgraham> gsnedders: You are welcome to borrow a loaf tin
  433. # [12:18] <jgraham> If you like
  434. # [12:18] <gsnedders> I think I'm more just put off by the idea of getting it from you in this weather :)
  435. # [12:18] * jgraham still can't find gsnedders insightful comment
  436. # [12:18] <gsnedders> jgraham: All I did was link to http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/07/16/how-ie9-platform-preview-feedback-changed-the-javascript-standard.aspx
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  438. # [12:21] <jgraham> gsnedders: I can maybe drop a loaf tin off at your house
  439. # [12:23] <jgraham> gsnedders: Although if you are making bread you can do without
  440. # [12:23] <jgraham> I guess if you are making some sort of cake, it is harder
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  451. # [13:15] <MikeSmith> http://twitter.com/pl4n3/status/18757984398
  452. # [13:15] * Quits: wakaba (~wakaba@213.139.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  453. # [13:16] <MikeSmith> http://pl4n3.blogspot.com/2010/07/bulletjs-javascript-physics-engine.html
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  479. # [15:02] <gsnedders> http://perfectionkills.com/javascript-quiz/
  480. # [15:02] <gsnedders> (I'd seen the original quiz linked to at the top of that, but not that one)
  481. # [15:02] <gsnedders> (I got 10/14)
  482. # [15:03] <gsnedders> 4, 9, 10, 12 is what I got wrong
  483. # [15:04] <gsnedders> (4 I think has changed in ES5, which is why I got that wrong)
  484. # [15:05] <gsnedders> (9 is evil, 10 I really should've got, and 12 I don't get the right answer)
  485. # [15:06] <gsnedders> Oh, wait
  486. # [15:06] <gsnedders> Duh
  487. # [15:07] <gsnedders> No, 4 is right under ES5
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  492. # [15:10] <Workshiva> I missed 13
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  494. # [15:11] <Workshiva> Never really thought about constructors returning values
  495. # [15:11] <Workshiva> I guess I should have assumed it wouldn't be on the test if it was the obvious answer :)
  496. # [15:14] * Philip` gets 6 wrong
  497. # [15:15] <Philip`> (That is, six of the questions, not number 6)
  498. # [15:19] <gsnedders> Workshiva: Only 13 though?
  499. # [15:19] <gsnedders> 9, 10 and 12 I probably should've got
  500. # [15:20] <gsnedders> s/9/4/
  501. # [15:20] <gsnedders> In all three cases I actually thought of what the right answer was, and the right reason why, then decided against it
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  509. # [15:36] <Workshiva> gsnedders: Yeah, only 13
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The end :)