/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-07-20 / end

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  70. # [03:29] <wirepair> ugh, why won't black berry let me set a frame/iframe's src attribute in a loop
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  94. # [05:01] <boblet> hey all, anyone know how I could get a rough snapshot of how many Japanese pages declare their language (without having to take a random sample and check each one)?
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  165. # [10:46] <foolip> bah, it looks like MIME for <video> is irreparably broken already
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  168. # [10:52] <jgraham> foolip: And you are surprised why?
  169. # [10:53] <jgraham> It's not like Content-Type has a glorious history of success
  170. # [10:53] <foolip> because Safari and Chrome have been broken all along and I never noticed
  171. # [10:53] <foolip> so I thought the state of things were good
  172. # [10:54] <foolip> not so
  173. # [10:55] <Philip`> By "good" I guess you mean "good for theoretical purity", not "good for users"?
  174. # [10:56] <foolip> mostly good as in "can point browser to URL without getting a window-full of garbled text"
  175. # [10:56] <foolip> as that tends to happen with things served as text/plain
  176. # [10:56] <foolip> (at least in Opera)
  177. # [10:57] <jgraham> In general I think
  178. # [10:57] <jgraham> But "I want to reload this <video> as a top-level resource" seems like rather a minor use0case compared to "I want to serve some video and I have no idea how to configure my server"
  179. # [10:58] <jgraham> Unless you believe that only qualified professionals will host <video> I guess
  180. # [10:58] <foolip> indeed, and many questions on e.g. stack overflow have turned out to be due to MIME
  181. # [10:58] <jgraham> the "youtube" scenario
  182. # [10:58] <foolip> still, no one has argued this point on the lists, as far as I remember
  183. # [10:59] <jgraham> Which point?
  184. # [10:59] <foolip> that we should simply ignore the MIME type because it's easier
  185. # [10:59] <jgraham> Maybe people don't like getting into pointless discussions with Julian
  186. # [11:00] <jgraham> It is easier if you point out that it is a compatibility requirement and so driven by market forces
  187. # [11:00] <foolip> I guess it's easier to just slide down the slippery slope and blame market forces when we have to change the spec to match reality
  188. # [11:00] <foolip> hehe, right
  189. # [11:02] <foolip> who is Julian, by the way?
  190. # [11:03] * foolip Googles
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  193. # [11:04] <foolip> conclusion: someone who makes a WebDAV client for the iPhone
  194. # [11:04] <Workshiva> Julian Reschke (+/- spelling)
  195. # [11:06] <Workshiva> He's the most active participant coming from the IETF side of things, more or less
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  197. # [11:06] <othermaciej> foolip, jgraham: honestly a large part of our motivation was actual experience with people trying to move from the QuickTime plugin to <video>... they never even knew their server was configured wrong
  198. # [11:07] <foolip> othermaciej, was this communicated to the list?
  199. # [11:07] <othermaciej> I mentioned that it was for compatibility with content originally created for QuickTime in a public-html post
  200. # [11:07] <foolip> othermaciej, perhaps it was before my time
  201. # [11:07] <othermaciej> but anyway, it was more for existing video content than for new content
  202. # [11:07] <othermaciej> oh, you mean was it communicated before just now?
  203. # [11:07] <foolip> yes
  204. # [11:08] <othermaciej> I dunno
  205. # [11:08] <foolip> anyway, placing blame isn't the point, I'm just trying to figure out what to do now
  206. # [11:08] <othermaciej> when we first implemented <video> we were not following public-html much
  207. # [11:08] <foolip> the easiest is of course to always ignore the MIME type
  208. # [11:08] <othermaciej> IMO <video> should have the same "ignore MIME type always sniff" policy as <img>
  209. # [11:08] <foolip> is it even remotely possible to remove support for text/plain in Safari now?
  210. # [11:09] <othermaciej> I am also ok with reducing <video> sniffing to a few specific types
  211. # [11:09] <foolip> othermaciej, wouldn't that break deployed content?
  212. # [11:09] <zcorpan_> i kind of like that 'open video in new tab' in the context menu would play the video in a new tab and not show garbage in a new tab
  213. # [11:09] <zcorpan_> but maybe we should sniff there too
  214. # [11:09] <othermaciej> foolip: my guess is that there are only 3 kinds of errors that are remotely common
  215. # [11:10] <othermaciej> (a) video improperly served as application/octet-stream
  216. # [11:10] <othermaciej> (b) video improperly served as text/plain
  217. # [11:10] <foolip> zcorpan_, yeah, more sniffing would solve it, but that would mean duplicating the same sniffing in the browsers network layer and in the media framework
  218. # [11:10] <othermaciej> (or audio in both these cases!)
  219. # [11:10] <othermaciej> (c) audio/video served with a MIME type for some different audio/video type
  220. # [11:11] <foolip> right, I can't imagine there's anything outside of those that are relevant
  221. # [11:11] <zcorpan_> the spec currently doesn't support text/plain from that list
  222. # [11:11] <othermaciej> does the spec support (c)?
  223. # [11:11] <zcorpan_> yes
  224. # [11:11] <zcorpan_> if the other type is supported at least
  225. # [11:12] <zcorpan_> there's also the issue of which audio/video mime types should be supported
  226. # [11:12] <othermaciej> we could maybe do experiments to see if limiting sniffing to (a)+(c) or (a)+(b)+(c) is viable
  227. # [11:12] <foolip> right, the spec already implicitly requires sniffing after getting through the load-time "canPlayType"
  228. # [11:12] <zcorpan_> e.g. audio/mp3 ?
  229. # [11:12] <othermaciej> I know that at the time we first implemented <video>, that video content served as text/plain was alarmingly common
  230. # [11:13] <othermaciej> my guess would be that the proportion is now lower but the absolute amount, maybe not
  231. # [11:14] <foolip> what you're saying is effectively that Safari will keep ignoring the MIME type
  232. # [11:14] <zcorpan_> newer apaches don't send text/plain by default for unknown types
  233. # [11:14] <foolip> there's no point in limiting to video/known, application/octet-stream and text/plain, IMO
  234. # [11:14] <othermaciej> what do newer apaches send, nothing?
  235. # [11:14] <othermaciej> or application/octet-stream?
  236. # [11:15] <zcorpan_> i think they moved from text/plain to application/octet-stream to no content-type header at all
  237. # [11:15] <zcorpan_> don't know which versions
  238. # [11:15] <othermaciej> foolip: what would your preference be? no sniffing at all? current spec (a/o-s + video/known)?
  239. # [11:16] <foolip> othermaciej, my absolute preference would be Firefox's behavior, but it seems unlikely Safari could match that
  240. # [11:16] <othermaciej> what does Firefox do?
  241. # [11:16] <foolip> it only accepts its known media types and fails to play e.g. Ogg served as audio/wav
  242. # [11:16] <foolip> that's harder to do when using GStreamer/QuickTime, but possible
  243. # [11:17] <foolip> uh, I don't know why I said "absolute preference"
  244. # [11:17] <othermaciej> I guess they are less interested in mpeg-2, mpeg-4 or legacy QuickTime being served with wrong MIME types
  245. # [11:17] <foolip> indeed
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  247. # [11:17] <othermaciej> presumably for ogg, there is no/less legacy of mislabeled content
  248. # [11:17] <foolip> but the day that Safari + everyone else support a common media type, this problem will show up
  249. # [11:18] <othermaciej> (or for WebM)
  250. # [11:22] * foolip writes mail
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  277. # [12:22] <Philip`> hsivonen: "I don't know if it is even *possible* to make Apache omit the Content-Type header" - like 'DefaultType none'? (http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#defaulttype)
  278. # [12:22] <Philip`> (That took about one minute of documentation-reading to find)
  279. # [12:25] <Workshiva> Philip`: Does that work now?
  280. # [12:26] <Philip`> It says "DefaultType None is only available in httpd-2.2.7 and later." so any version from January 2008 onwards should support it
  281. # [12:26] <Philip`> (Confusingly 2.2.7 was never actually released)
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  285. # [12:31] <Workshiva> Philip`: Considering the upgrade rate on apache installs, it will be useful around 2015 then :)
  286. # [12:33] * Joins: eighty4 (~eighty4@h-112-7.A163.corp.bahnhof.se)
  287. # [12:35] <Philip`> Workshiva: Do you have data for that? :-)
  288. # [12:36] <Smylers> Even people who upgrade Apache may keep their existing config.
  289. # [12:37] <Workshiva> Philip`: No, just personal bitterness from having to use apache 1.x as recently as this year
  290. # [12:37] <Smylers> And DefaultType none isn't the default, so people setting up sites with a sufficiently new Apache still need to know to change it.
  291. # [12:38] <Philip`> Smylers: hsivonen was talking about not knowing how to configure Apache's default, not about what the default default is
  292. # [12:38] <Philip`> Workshiva: http://philip.html5.org/data/server-versions-2.txt
  293. # [12:39] <Philip`> Workshiva: Hmm, the 2.2s look fairly evently distributed before and after 2.2.7
  294. # [12:39] <Philip`> plus there's still loads of 2.0 and 1.3
  295. # [12:40] <Workshiva> Yeah, those numbers don't surprise me
  296. # [12:40] <Philip`> (in data from early 2009)
  297. # [12:40] <Workshiva> Apache 3.5.1, though? That's a surprise
  298. # [12:40] <Smylers> Yeah, I know. I was just pointing out that Workshiva's 2015 estimate may still be optimistic for being able to expect sites to be configured correctly.
  299. # [12:41] <Workshiva> Smylers: The estimate for sites being configured correctly is and will remain Infinity
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  301. # [12:42] * Philip` notes that Apache looks much more common that IIS (by over 3x), which seems significantly different to Netcraft's figures
  302. # [12:43] <Smylers> So the choice is between waiting for infinity, or deciding that if an author has used the <video> element and its contents are identifiable as being a video then the intention is to play it as a video?
  303. # [12:43] <Smylers> Do Netcraft tally up pages or websites or IP addresses or servers?
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  305. # [12:44] <roc> what have I done
  306. # [12:45] <Philip`> Workshiva: One of Apache/3.5.1 was on www.61.gov.cn, so presumably it's a secret project being developed for the Chinese government
  307. # [12:48] <Philip`> Smylers: They count something complex
  308. # [12:48] <Philip`> http://news.netcraft.com/active-sites/
  309. # [12:49] <Philip`> The third graph in http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2010/07/16/july-2010-web-server-survey-16.html doesn't look good for Microsoft
  310. # [12:50] <roc> foolip: I'll continue that thread tomorrow after I've talked to Chris Double and got our story straight
  311. # [12:50] * Quits: variable (~variable@unaffiliated/variable) (Remote host closed the connection)
  312. # [12:51] <Philip`> and looks closer to the wildly inaccurate numbers that I have
  313. # [12:52] <Philip`> so I guess one can conclude that the graphs are pretty meaningless as indicators of market share, since there's huge jumps when a single large provider changes or when the methodology changes
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  315. # [12:55] <hsivonen> Philip`: thanks
  316. # [12:56] <Smylers> Alternatively, you can conclude that a wide range of graphs are available to pick from, to support your choice of view point...
  317. # [12:56] <hsivonen> Philip`: to split hairs, I didn't talk about not knowing how to configure the default. I was talking about how to take the header away by default.
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  319. # [12:58] <hsivonen> aside: at one point, I configured hsivonen.iki.fi to default to application/octet-stream but somehow it has regressed to text/plain...
  320. # [12:59] <Philip`> hsivonen: I thought you talked about how to "configure to send no type as the fallback", i.e. configuring the default that will be sent (or rather not sent) when no other type has been specified for the file
  321. # [13:00] <Workshiva> hsivonen: I'm sure the distros have a hand in the pie as well
  322. # [13:01] <hsivonen> Philip`: I know how to change it from text/plain to application/octet-stream. I didn't know how to change it to "no type"
  323. # [13:01] <hsivonen> Workshiva: they sure do
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  325. # [13:03] <Philip`> hsivonen: That makes it sound like you didn't know "DefaultType none", so I'm slightly confused as to what hairs are being split
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  328. # [13:06] <Philip`> (I think my original thought was just that claiming to not personally know something that's trivially findable in the documentation didn't seem like a compelling or relevant argument, and didn't seem like a reason to non-historically blame Apache for anything)
  329. # [13:07] <Philip`> (I may just be misunderstanding the argument, though)
  330. # [13:08] <hsivonen> Philip`: the argument is that you need to know or bother to find out stuff to make Apache behave
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  332. # [13:13] <foolip> Apache probably can't change the default for compat reasons anyway
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  334. # [13:13] <foolip> wouldn't e.g. README files get the default?
  335. # [13:14] <foolip> roc, OK, I'm holding off any changes, but thanks for taking the time
  336. # [13:14] <hsivonen> foolip: yes
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  338. # [13:16] <foolip> is there any successful standard with lots of implementors and users that isn't a big pile of cruft?
  339. # [13:16] <foolip> maybe PNG? or maybe it's just the same if one looks closer...
  340. # [13:17] <hsivonen> I was thinking of Western Continental European electrical sockets, but even they have at least 3 points of compat cruft
  341. # [13:18] <foolip> hsivonen, the kind we have in Sweden and presumably Finland?
  342. # [13:18] <hsivonen> foolip: right
  343. # [13:18] <hsivonen> (but, insanely, not in Denmark!)
  344. # [13:18] <foolip> the double ground is a bit odd, is that one of the 3?
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  346. # [13:20] <hsivonen> foolip: I was thinking: 1) German ground, 2) French ground, 3) support for ungrounded devices in an Italian-compatible way
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  348. # [13:20] <hsivonen> foolip: though one might argue that's only 2 pieces of cruft, since one grounding method has to count as non-cruft
  349. # [13:20] <foolip> oh, looks like I'm blissfully unaware of the inner workings of electrical sockets :)
  350. # [13:21] <hsivonen> and actually, these are plug features, not socket features, to be precise
  351. # [13:22] * hsivonen thinks the EU should fine Denmark for the environmental waste of vendors having to ship different plugs there
  352. # [13:22] <hsivonen> it makes *no* sense for Denmark to have differently shaped plugs
  353. # [13:22] <foolip> I say fine Denmark regardless :)
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  464. # [19:04] <jgraham> hsivonen: I note that the wiring laws in Sweden are insane (or have been so historically) and the design of the plug allows unsafe wiring
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  466. # [19:05] <jgraham> Specifically grounding sockets is distressingly uncommon in residential properties (I think it is now required in new-build)
  467. # [19:06] <jgraham> And the plug fails-unsafe if you plug into a non-grounded socket (i.e. it is possible to plug an appliance that should be grounded into a non-grounded socket and have it work, just without grounding)
  468. # [19:07] <jgraham> So I would not really call that ideal design
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  471. # [19:09] <jgraham> (by contrast the UK plug design with a mandatoy ground pin seems safer)
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  474. # [19:12] <hober> UK shaver/bathroom plugs only have two pins
  475. # [19:13] <jgraham> Indeed
  476. # [19:13] <jgraham> They are low volatge though
  477. # [19:14] <jgraham> (in general we don't have much in the way of electrics in the bathroom)
  478. # [19:14] <jgraham> (because, uh, we don't like dying)
  479. # [19:14] * Joins: bobchao (~cctw@112.105.101.98)
  480. # [19:16] <tabatkins> We just make sure that bathroom sockets have a breaker built-in, so they'll cut out quicker.
  481. # [19:16] * tabatkins is now known as TabAtkins
  482. # [19:16] <Workshiva> Swiss use three plugs, but apparently the middle one is optional because standard two-plug plugs work fine with three-hole sockets
  483. # [19:18] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's American sockets too.
  484. # [19:18] * TabAtkins high-fives the swiss.
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  487. # [19:20] <jgraham> TabAtkins: OTOH the US plugs fricking *spark* when you insert them
  488. # [19:20] <TabAtkins> jgraham: They do! It's kinda cool.
  489. # [19:20] <jgraham> So you have nothing to be proud of
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  491. # [19:22] <TabAtkins> I have never known anyone to have ever actually been shocked by the sparking, so shrug.
  492. # [19:22] <Workshiva> Standard European plugs are the only worthwhile ones
  493. # [19:22] <Workshiva> Everyone else needs to get in line
  494. # [19:26] * jgraham hopes like crazy Sweden at least has radial wiring
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  497. # [19:28] <jgraham> umm... I'm not sure if that's what I mean
  498. # [19:28] * jgraham reads more
  499. # [19:29] <hsivonen> jgraham: yeah, the plug design isn't ideal
  500. # [19:30] <hsivonen> but I assume the ability to plug to a non-grounded socket is a deliberate design decision
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  502. # [19:30] <hsivonen> IIRC, the North American gounding pin has the opposite design
  503. # [19:32] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  504. # [19:32] <hsivonen> (it blew my mind when I learned that the UK design isn't electrically equivalent to the continental design)
  505. # [19:32] <Smylers> jgraham: I misread that as “because, uh, we don't like drying” — which also kind-of works as an explanation.
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  507. # [19:32] <TabAtkins> non-grounded plugs can go to a grounded socket, but not the other way around.
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  509. # [19:33] <hsivonen> (that is, in UK and Ireland, there's a device-side fuse in each plug, while the Continental design puts the fuse in a fuse box on the socket side)
  510. # [19:33] <jgraham> hsivonen: In what way "not electrically equivalent" the ring main vs radial thing? Or something else?
  511. # [19:33] <hsivonen> jgraham: fuse placement. see above
  512. # [19:33] <hsivonen> jgraham: and whatever ring vs. radial stuff comes with that
  513. # [19:33] * jgraham notes that the UK also typically has circuit breakers on the whole circuit
  514. # [19:34] <jgraham> AFAICT from wikipedia the whole UK design was inspired by a need to save copper when everything was rebuild post WW2
  515. # [19:34] * aroben is now known as aroben|afk
  516. # [19:35] <jgraham> It seems that a ring main is a way to achieve that but you have to also have fuses in the appliances
  517. # [19:36] <jgraham> (because the saving coppewr thing means that you are running lots of appliances off the same circuit)
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  520. # [19:37] <TabAtkins> Is there a name for rgb color units? The things that there are 255 of in each channel?
  521. # [19:37] <hsivonen> putting the fuse on the plug side implies that the treat model assumes the devices are trusted and cooperative
  522. # [19:37] <jgraham> hsivonen: Howso?
  523. # [19:38] <hsivonen> I was aware that European voltages saved copper compared to American, but I wasn't aware that the UK design saved even more
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  525. # [19:38] <hsivonen> jgraham: if the design requires a device-side fuse, the system isn' fused right if you plug in a rogue (cheap?) device that doesn't have a fuse
  526. # [19:39] <jgraham> hsivonen: The whole circuit is still fused
  527. # [19:39] * hsivonen has seen cheap adapters that allow fuseless devices to be plugged into UK sockets
  528. # [19:39] * Philip` thought it was a legal requirement that devices do things correctly (i.e. have fuses, and are grounded or double-insulated)
  529. # [19:39] <jgraham> Philip`: I think so too
  530. # [19:40] <jgraham> I guess maybe you could buy an unfused travel adaptor and bring it to the UK
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  532. # [19:40] <Smylers> hsivonen: And the adapters themselves don't have fuses in them?
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  535. # [19:40] <hsivonen> Smylers: proper ones have, but I've seen bogus ones
  536. # [19:41] <jgraham> hsivonen: Yes, in that specific case you are in marginally more danger. Although wikipedia claims that modern circuit breakers are likely to trip before the fuse blows anyway
  537. # [19:41] <hsivonen> Smylers: the bogus ones are a piece of plastic that has an extended that goes into the grounding hole openin the other slots for a continental plug
  538. # [19:41] <hsivonen> s/extended/extender/
  539. # [19:42] <jgraham> In the common case (UK devices on a UK circuit) you are marginally better off since you can set the fuse to the right level for the device
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  542. # [19:43] <Philip`> I guess it's also easier to replace the fuse when it's in the plug
  543. # [19:43] <hsivonen> Philip`: nope
  544. # [19:44] <jgraham> No one uses real fuses now anyway
  545. # [19:44] <TabAtkins> I'd assume just the opposite.
  546. # [19:44] <jgraham> Except in plugs
  547. # [19:44] <Smylers> hsivonen: A plastic earth pin just means it isn't earthed. Double-insulated devices are allowed to do that anyway. But they can still have a fuse, which is in the connection to the live pin.
  548. # [19:45] <hsivonen> the UK design has merit, but the most annoying part is that the plugs are so big, so a person with a UK laptop power supply plus an adapter takes up 2 or 3 sockets at a conference
  549. # [19:46] <jgraham> Yeah, the bigness is unfortunate
  550. # [19:46] <hsivonen> the same problem repeats with continental plugs in American conferences, though it tends to be less serious
  551. # [19:46] * jgraham has that problem a lot at home :)
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  553. # [19:49] <hsivonen> I guess the only redeeming feature of the Danish plug is that the gounding pin is on the plug side as in North America
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  605. # [22:20] <JonathanNeal> so if hidden indicates that the element is not visible or perceivable to any user, what do you call something visually hidden but not hidden to screen readers?
  606. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> "visually hidden".
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  608. # [22:21] <TabAtkins> Btw, if anyone's going to be at OSCON, I'm now going to be giving part of a talk there tomorrow.
  609. # [22:21] <JonathanNeal> Bummer, I had no desire to be there this year and didn't try to go.
  610. # [22:21] <JonathanNeal> I wonder if some Liferay peeps will be there.
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  619. # [23:05] <hober> TabAtkins: filling in for mark p?
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  622. # [23:09] <TabAtkins> hober: Yeah.
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  624. # [23:16] <hsivonen> are iframes that are not inserted into a document supposed to be able to navigate?
  625. # [23:18] <hsivonen> Hixie: if an iframe that has been in a document is removed from a document, is it supposed to be able to navigate?
  626. # [23:18] <hsivonen> it being the detached iframe that is
  627. # [23:19] <Hixie> sure, why wouldn't it?
  628. # [23:19] <Hixie> (no browsers except chrome currently do this)
  629. # [23:19] <hsivonen> Hixie: it doesn't navigate before it has been inserted
  630. # [23:19] <hsivonen> Hixie: well, then, maybe it shouldn't!
  631. # [23:20] <Hixie> possibly not. It's worth noting that gmail actually uses that feature to make gmail faster in chrome.
  632. # [23:21] <Hixie> not sure how that affects things.
  633. # [23:21] <hsivonen> interesting...
  634. # [23:21] <Hixie> the spec would have to be changed to somehow kill the nested browsing context when the iframe is removed from the document
  635. # [23:21] <Hixie> would you want it to survive being removed then reinserted?
  636. # [23:21] <hsivonen> so does window.parent of the iframe point to the window of the owner doc, still?
  637. # [23:22] <hsivonen> Hixie: I'm not sure what I want yet, but Gecko misbehaves if it is tricked into loading into a detached iframe
  638. # [23:22] <hsivonen> via location.reload()
  639. # [23:23] <Hixie> the answer to that rests on the interpretation of "in" in the context of an element being in a document
  640. # [23:23] <Hixie> ah
  641. # [23:23] <hsivonen> Hixie: a detached element still has the owner doc, right?
  642. # [23:23] <Hixie> yeah
  643. # [23:24] <Hixie> ah, i define "in a document"
  644. # [23:24] <Hixie> so the answer is window.parent === window when the iframe is removed from the parent doc
  645. # [23:24] <hsivonen> currently, if Gecko is tricked into loading into a detached iframe, the inner window in the iframe is null
  646. # [23:24] <Hixie> that seems bad
  647. # [23:25] <zcorpan_> Hixie: are you going to work on websockets this week?
  648. # [23:25] <Hixie> zcorpan_: yp, starting now
  649. # [23:25] <Hixie> yup, even
  650. # [23:25] <zcorpan_> Hixie: cool
  651. # [23:25] <hsivonen> window.parent === window looks like "top level" to me
  652. # [23:25] <jgraham> vwls r vrrtd
  653. # [23:25] <hsivonen> I wonder if accidents happen if an iframe looks too much like "top level"
  654. # [23:26] <gsnedders> jgraham: rlly?
  655. # [23:26] <hsivonen> if chome gets perf benefits, maybe we should make the window exist in that case (as opposed to disallowing the load)
  656. # [23:27] <hsivonen> *chrome
  657. # [23:27] <jgraham> zcorpan_: You decided not to file the ws:foo bug on browsers?
  658. # [23:27] <Hixie> hsivonen: a lot of this stuff was defined by accident, as a side-effect of the spec covering all bases, and not intentionally
  659. # [23:27] * jgraham realises it looks like he is talking about web services
  660. # [23:27] <zcorpan_> jgraham: no i filed it
  661. # [23:27] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cable.ziggo.nl)
  662. # [23:28] <zcorpan_> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=580234
  663. # [23:28] <zcorpan_> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42636
  664. # [23:28] <jgraham> zcorpan_: OK. So what is the behaviour you expect in the WebSockets case?
  665. # [23:28] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.246.16.89) (Quit: othermaciej)
  666. # [23:28] <Hixie> hsivonen: my understanding is that what gmail is actually doing is grafting the iframe into a new document and having that work
  667. # [23:29] <jgraham> (I assume you filed bug 10213)
  668. # [23:29] <Hixie> hsivonen: not so much when the frame is an orphan
  669. # [23:29] <Hixie> hsivonen: though it'd be a bit weird to prevent the orphan case from working
  670. # [23:29] <zcorpan_> jgraham: bz filed it
  671. # [23:29] <hsivonen> Hixie: ah. slightly different case
  672. # [23:29] <Hixie> hsivonen: yeah
  673. # [23:29] <jgraham> zcorpan_: Oh
  674. # [23:29] <Hixie> hsivonen: i'm not 100% familiar with it
  675. # [23:30] <zcorpan_> jgraham: i'd be fine with either syntax_err or implied //
  676. # [23:30] <Hixie> zcorpan_: re bugs, if they're in the websocket component i'll see them
  677. # [23:30] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.246.16.89)
  678. # [23:31] <zcorpan_> Hixie: what's the websocket component? other hixie drafts?
  679. # [23:34] <Hixie> it's whatever my script picks when you file a bug on the websockets part of the complete.html spec
  680. # [23:34] <Hixie> "WebSocket API (editor: Ian Hickson)" in product "WebAppsWG"
  681. # [23:37] <zcorpan_> changed
  682. # [23:37] * Quits: ROBOd (~robod@92.86.255.147) (Quit: .)
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  685. # [23:40] <Hixie> ta
  686. # [23:40] * Joins: franksalim (~frank@adsl-75-61-93-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
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  694. # [23:56] <TabAtkins> Hixie: <canvas> composite question. We're all arguing about the interpretation of a term in the spec. ^_^
  695. # [23:57] <TabAtkins> in the globalCompositeOperation stuff, the term "source image" is used. Is the source image a conceptually infinite canvas containing what is being drawn, or is it just the actual pixels dirtied by the latest draw operation?
  696. # [23:57] <Philip`> Which term?
  697. # [23:57] * Joins: jamesr (~jamesr@nat/google/x-zntwzaltphwnuiyg)
  698. # [23:58] <Philip`> TabAtkins: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#drawing-model
  699. # [23:58] * Joins: Smylers1 (~smylers@host81-151-158-29.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)
  700. # [23:58] <Philip`> The source image in the composite step is A
  701. # [23:58] <jamesr> that drawing model is awkward
  702. # [23:58] <Philip`> which is an infinite bitmap
  703. # [23:59] <Hixie> what Philip` said
  704. # [23:59] <TabAtkins> Ok.
  705. # Session Close: Wed Jul 21 00:00:00 2010

The end :)