/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-07-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jul 24 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  8. # [00:19] <Hixie> aho, TabAtkins: ok so just to clarify, i meant an image, not text, and by "freely redistributable" i meant "has a known copyright situation" :-P
  9. # [00:19] <Hixie> Lachy: unfortunately not
  10. # [00:19] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Wait, what? You want an image of text of an image?
  11. # [00:20] <Hixie> i want an image
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  13. # [00:20] <Hixie> ascii art image
  14. # [00:20] <Hixie> a text/plain graphic
  15. # [00:20] <Hixie> not a text/plain graphic of text :-)
  16. # [00:20] <AryehGregor> Who's Sergey, and what blog post?
  17. # [00:20] <TabAtkins> ...
  18. # [00:20] <Hixie> which is what aho suggested :-)
  19. # [00:20] <TabAtkins> So is this going to be text, or pixels?
  20. # [00:20] <Hixie> text
  21. # [00:21] <TabAtkins> Okay, that's what I thought. I was confused why you were telling me this.
  22. # [00:22] <nimbupani> Would it be appropriate to ask questions about inset box-shadows here?
  23. # [00:23] <TabAtkins> You could try, but they kind of confused me.
  24. # [00:24] <TabAtkins> s/ed/e/
  25. # [00:24] <nimbupani> ok :)
  26. # [00:24] <nimbupani> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/952/pola/index.html
  27. # [00:24] <nimbupani> (sorry please refresh)
  28. # [00:24] <nimbupani> so two images. the one on right has box-shadow without inset
  29. # [00:25] <nimbupani> the one on left has with inset.
  30. # [00:25] <nimbupani> so the box shadow on right renders correctly, but the one on left does not render at all, even tho spec says box-shadows apply to all elements.
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  32. # [00:26] <TabAtkins> You been able to do get the inset to work on anything else?
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  34. # [00:26] <nimbupani> yeah it works on non-img elms
  35. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> Then it's a browser bug.
  36. # [00:27] <nimbupani> but its like cross-browser :)
  37. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> Then file it on multiple browsers. ^_^
  38. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> There's no reason an inset shadow shouldn't work on an image.
  39. # [00:28] <nimbupani> yeah :(
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  41. # [00:33] <Lachy> AryehGregor, Sergey is someone who e-mailed Hixie and i to review and publish a post on the whatwg blog.
  42. # [00:37] <hober> TabAtkins: how'd the panel go on Wednesday?
  43. # [00:37] <TabAtkins> Good times.
  44. # [00:38] <TabAtkins> I messed up my demo by hacking at it while starting the panel, but we saved it with another demo I'd written earlier.
  45. # [00:38] <TabAtkins> I recommend against flying twice in one day, though.
  46. # [00:38] <TabAtkins> I just wish we hadn't been kicked out of the room. I always love the Q&A - people ask great questions at places like that.
  47. # [00:43] <estellevw> nimbupani: The inset shadow is working
  48. # [00:43] <estellevw> it's just appearing behind the image
  49. # [00:43] <estellevw> set the opacity to 0.5, and you'll see what i mean
  50. # [00:43] <nimbupani> estellevw: but it should appear in front of it ideally :/
  51. # [00:43] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's a bug. inset bugs go on top of the element.
  52. # [00:44] <estellevw> even on embedded content?
  53. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> Yes?
  54. # [00:44] <estellevw> spec unmemorized: if all browsers have same issue, that might need to be delineated
  55. # [00:45] <estellevw> should be a given, but ...
  56. # [00:45] <nimbupani> estellevw: i dont see the shadows on chrome/firefox as you said
  57. # [00:45] <nimbupani> oh wait let me use a higher pixel value
  58. # [00:46] <nimbupani> no o.
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  60. # [00:46] <estellevw> nimbupani: I used firebug to set opacity to 0.5
  61. # [00:46] <estellevw> and change shadow to inset
  62. # [00:46] <estellevw> img {
  63. # [00:46] <estellevw> -moz-box-shadow:2px 2px 5px black inset;
  64. # [00:46] <estellevw> display:block;
  65. # [00:46] <estellevw> opacity:0.5;
  66. # [00:46] <estellevw> }
  67. # [00:47] <nimbupani> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/952/pola/index.html
  68. # [00:47] <nimbupani> i cannot see any shadow.
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  70. # [00:48] <estellevw> FF 3.6.7
  71. # [00:49] <Hixie> man i cannot find any ascii art with a clearly reusable copyright license
  72. # [00:49] <nimbupani> I am on that too, can you send me a screenshot?
  73. # [00:49] <nimbupani> use gyazo if you can :)
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  75. # [00:50] <estellevw> so weird. I reloaded and it disappeared. Where should i send screenshot?
  76. # [00:50] <nimbupani> let me PM you.
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  78. # [00:59] <estellevw> so, if a box shadow is placed on a transparent gif, you can see it. The image is appearing on top of the shadow, not the other way around
  79. # [00:59] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's definitely a bug.
  80. # [01:03] <estellevw> nimbupani: did you change the code, because now it's work in Opera 10.6, but it wasn't before
  81. # [01:04] <nimbupani> the image on the right will work.
  82. # [01:04] <nimbupani> because it is transparent png.
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  84. # [01:04] <nimbupani> so you are right it IS rendering box-shadow but changing opacity will not show that.
  85. # [01:04] <estellevw> ah, ok
  86. # [01:04] <nimbupani> but using transparent png does.
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  89. # [01:10] <dandaman> when i set a <td> tag's style="width:200" and put stuff in it, the table cell won't expand right? only if the stuff i put in it overflows right?
  90. # [01:11] <dandaman> like if i put a 50px image inside the cell, the cell will still stay at width 200 right?
  91. # [01:11] <dandaman> not 250
  92. # [01:11] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  93. # [01:12] <dandaman> well then i might as well shoot myself in the head because i have no idea what is wrong with my code then...
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  98. # [01:24] <dandaman> are there any other ways to get the width of your screen or browser
  99. # [01:25] <dandaman> because screen.width is simply not working for me
  100. # [01:25] <dandaman> even though it should...
  101. # [01:29] <estellevw> is the device element supported by any browser?
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  103. # [01:41] <TabAtkins> No, it's just a sketch at this point.
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  105. # [01:46] <dandaman> ok i found the problem
  106. # [01:46] <dandaman> this is the weirdest thing ever
  107. # [01:47] <dandaman> so i have this function
  108. # [01:47] <dandaman> http://pastebin.com/D7hFrpnq
  109. # [01:47] <dandaman> http://pastebin.com/EERy5RZm
  110. # [01:48] <dandaman> sorry, that function
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  112. # [01:48] <dandaman> theWidth is 1280 on my desktop
  113. # [01:48] <dandaman> which is fine
  114. # [01:48] <dandaman> but line #11 screws up apparently
  115. # [01:48] <dandaman> because line 12 alerts 5330
  116. # [01:48] <dandaman> instead of 6400 which is what 1280*5 is
  117. # [01:48] <dandaman> when i change line 11 to say ...=6400+'px'; it works though
  118. # [01:48] <dandaman> ideas?
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  123. # [01:51] <dandaman> this happens with 2 browsers im trying it on
  124. # [01:54] <nimbupani> dbaron_: can I explain why I think this is a bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581601
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  127. # [01:58] <dandaman> nevermind found it
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  159. # [04:29] <othermaciej> AryehGregor: one thing screen readers could do (though I am not sure any do) is alert you to the presence of an image without describing it
  160. # [04:29] <othermaciej> for empty alt, most screen readers skip the image entirely
  161. # [04:30] <othermaciej> for missing alt, most read the filename, even if it is not human readable (so you get to hear "eye em gee zero zero three seven five four dot jay pee gee"
  162. # [04:33] <jamesr> that's a funny picture
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  176. # [05:28] <estellevw> Do any browser support menu/command or details/summary?
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  190. # [07:05] <estellevw> Does HTML5 do anything to help the issue that <input type="file" /> in the past has been almost impossible to style?
  191. # [07:06] <estellevw> Is there a different file selection mechanism?
  192. # [07:07] <estellevw> And anyone know if webkit plans on following the suggested spec presentation order? "the element is expected to render as an 'inline-block' box containing a span of text giving the filename(s) of the selected files, if any, followed by a button that, when activated, provides the user with a file picker from which the selection can be changed."
  193. # [07:07] <estellevw> right now the button preceded text, rather than an input box preceding a button (like IE, FF and Opera)
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  211. # [08:53] <beilabs> I'm using a cache manifest file, and I have the files that I want to be cached all listed there....does this mean that I can add a path to a file I have never visited before and then it should be automatically cached once I visit a page with the manifest set up correctly? Or do I need to visit it at least one time?
  212. # [08:55] <beilabs> think I found the answer: Whenever the user browses to the page corresponding to a document to which a cache manifest is associated, the browser must check on the server if the latter has been modified:
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  221. # [09:58] <estellevw> The pattern attribute: reading the spec it seems to be case insensitive, but the implementation seems to be case sensitive.
  222. # [09:59] <estellevw> am i wrong about the spec, or is webkit and opera wrong on the implmentation?
  223. # [09:59] <estellevw> example at http://www.standardista.com/webkit/ch4/color.html
  224. # [10:00] <estellevw> Constraint validation: If the element's value is not the empty string, and the element's pattern attribute is specified and the attribute's value, when compiled as a JavaScript regular expression with the global, ignoreCase, and multiline flags disabled (see ECMA262 Edition 5, sections 15.10.7.2 through 15.10.7.4), compiles successfully but the resulting regular expression does not match the entirety of the element's value, the
  225. # [10:00] <estellevw> suffering from a pattern mismatch. [ECMA262]
  226. # [10:00] <estellevw> i find that confusing
  227. # [10:00] <estellevw> or does that mean it has to be case sensitive?
  228. # [10:04] <jgraham> If ignoreCase is disabled it is case sensitive, yes
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  250. # [12:59] <beilabs> Is window.openDatabase supported in Firefox 3.6+?
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  253. # [13:09] <jgraham> beilabs: Firefox don't and won't support WebSQL
  254. # [13:09] <jgraham> They believe it is not a good technology
  255. # [13:10] <beilabs> jgraham, yeah, did a bit of reading on it since,
  256. # [13:10] <beilabs> going down this route instead http://github.com/marcuswestin/store.js
  257. # [13:10] <beilabs> Had everything working perfectly in chrome
  258. # [13:10] <beilabs> then went to FFox, to realize that.
  259. # [13:10] <beilabs> doh
  260. # [13:11] <beilabs> jgraham, do you have any references where Mozilla mention that it's a bad tech?
  261. # [13:14] <jgraham> http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/06/beyond-html5-database-apis-and-the-road-to-indexeddb/ has some points
  262. # [13:16] <beilabs> jgraham, thanks dude
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  264. # [14:23] <Workshiva> jgraham: Who supports WebSQL now?
  265. # [14:23] <Ms2ger> Opera and WebKit?
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  277. # [15:39] <jgraham> Yeah, opera and Webkit
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  279. # [15:49] <Slaanesh> Is Opera going to keep supporting it?
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  281. # [15:56] <jgraham> I don't know of any plans not to
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  283. # [15:58] <Slaanesh> Bah
  284. # [15:59] <Slaanesh> Kill it before it gets even more entrenched, I say
  285. # [16:00] <jgraham> I'm not sure that we could kill it in general by dropping support
  286. # [16:01] <Slaanesh> Could at least limit it to iphone apps
  287. # [16:01] <jgraham> My understanding is that a lot of the users are people labouring under the assumption that mobile === Webkit
  288. # [16:01] * Joins: bobchao (~cctw@112.105.140.77)
  289. # [16:02] <jgraham> The concept of "iPhone apps" that are actually just websites that can be accessed by many types of device makes no sense to me
  290. # [16:03] <hsivonen> jgraham: it's kinda sad that authors are so ready to jump back to the monoculture mindset after the last time
  291. # [16:03] <jgraham> hsivonen: Really.
  292. # [16:03] <Slaanesh> hsivonen: But it's much more cool and elegant this time
  293. # [16:04] <jgraham> I guess it is easy to believe that the problems last time were because Microsoft are evil
  294. # [16:07] <jgraham> Rather than the IMHO more likely truth that they were the inevitable result of insufficient competition
  295. # [16:09] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.101.38) (Quit: Leaving)
  296. # [16:12] <jgraham> Oh man, a proposal for more document.write like functionality
  297. # [16:13] <jgraham> That's just waht the world needs
  298. # [16:13] <gsnedders> Totally. It's beautiful design.
  299. # [16:16] <Slaanesh> Did I tell you guys about the chrome bug where document.write() with a script tag interrupts script execution to run the new script?
  300. # [16:20] <hsivonen> Slaanesh: that's not enough detail to know if it's a bug
  301. # [16:22] <Slaanesh> <script>document.write('<script src=x.js></script>');console.log(1);</script> will sometimes (but not always) execute x.js before logging 1
  302. # [16:23] <hsivonen> Slaanesh: ok. that's a bug.
  303. # [16:24] <hsivonen> Slaanesh: my guess would be to look at the interaction of resource loads from cache and script execution
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  320. # [18:01] <EclipseGc> hah, nice
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  346. # [20:36] <cyberix> How do I construct a blob?
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  398. # Session Close: Sun Jul 25 00:00:00 2010

The end :)