/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-08-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Aug 11 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Hixie> anyone got IE? what does it alert on https://bug-19967-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=60491 ?
  4. # [00:01] * abarth boots a vm
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  6. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> string,string,string
  7. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> in IE8 on W&
  8. # [00:02] <AryehGregor> IE6 in ies4linux says string,string,string.
  9. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> 7
  10. # [00:02] <llrcombs> same with WK
  11. # [00:02] <llrcombs> string,string,string
  12. # [00:02] <Hixie> thanks!!
  13. # [00:03] <llrcombs> anyone know if HTML5 <video> will eventually do playlists?
  14. # [00:03] <llrcombs> or will that always be a task for JS?
  15. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> I think that's noted as a v2 feature?
  16. # [00:03] <AryehGregor> Really?
  17. # [00:03] <Hixie> llrcombs: no plans to add that support so far, but it's occasionally requested
  18. # [00:03] <AryehGregor> That seems like it should be left up to JS, no?
  19. # [00:03] * TabAtkins is wrong, apparently.
  20. # [00:03] <Hixie> "v2" in the spec just means people requested it
  21. # [00:04] <Hixie> not that we'll definitely add it
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  23. # [00:04] <llrcombs> so I'll pencil you in for a "maybe"
  24. # [00:07] <annevk5> what is a fun test
  25. # [00:07] <annevk5> s/what/that/ doh
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  29. # [00:19] * AryehGregor is very annoyed at Opera's OOM error on http://aryeh.name/tests/reflection.html, since it means he only has two browsers to look for spec/test bugs in, not three.
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  36. # [00:46] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: Uh… Okay. That's weird.
  37. # [00:46] <AryehGregor> Yes, it is.
  38. # [00:46] <AryehGregor> Also annoying.
  39. # [00:46] <AryehGregor> I'd be okay with a workaround if you can come up with one.
  40. # [00:46] <AryehGregor> It first happened a couple of days ago, when I did some refactoring.
  41. # [00:47] <gsnedders> I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow…
  42. # [00:47] <AryehGregor> Dunno what caused the problem, but if you want to investigate, you can look in the git history to find which one first triggered it.
  43. # [00:47] <gsnedders> s/tomorrow/later today/
  44. # [00:47] <gsnedders> (I mean, I have a bunch of interns helping with the other thing I'm doing, so…)
  45. # [00:49] <TabAtkins> Urgh, damn you untrusted certificates.
  46. # [00:49] * TabAtkins doesn't want to try and resolve this.
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  49. # [01:02] <TabAtkins> Ah, never mind, turned out easy.
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  51. # [01:05] <gsnedders> Hixie: Have you seen anything about window.parent being readonly causing site-compat problems?
  52. # [01:05] <gsnedders> (like, in any feedback sent on the spec)
  53. # [01:06] <Hixie> sounds vaguely familiar
  54. # [01:06] <Hixie> but i don't recall specifics, if any
  55. # [01:06] * gsnedders shrugs
  56. # [01:06] <gsnedders> I'll try and remmeber to send an email tomorrow
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  58. # [01:11] <Hixie> for the record, i meant "of the implementations" where i said "of the spec" in the e-mail i just sent. oops.
  59. # [01:12] <AryehGregor> This is supposed to alert "3000000000", right? Because that's in range for an unsigned long? Because it doesn't in any browser. data:text/html,<!doctype html><input size=3000000000><script>alert(document.getElementsByTagName("input")[0].size);</script>
  60. # [01:12] <AryehGregor> (at least not that I tested)
  61. # [01:12] <Hixie> what does it alert?
  62. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> 0 in Gecko and WebKit, 2^32 - 1 in Opera.
  63. # [01:13] <Hixie> UAs are allowed to apply arbitrary limits for ridiculous input, maybe they're applying that rule
  64. # [01:13] * Twisol|away is now known as Twisol
  65. # [01:13] <Hixie> or maybe they're just not implementing the spec :-)
  66. # [01:13] <gsnedders> Uh, Opera makes it bigger
  67. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> Er, I meant 2^31 - 1.
  68. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> For Opera.
  69. # [01:14] <gsnedders> Ah
  70. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> So it's like it's treating it as signed and capping it.
  71. # [01:14] <TabAtkins> Opera's signing it, yeah.
  72. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> This doesn't seem ridiculous at all, it's within the stated bounds for the type.
  73. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> I'm filing a Firefox bug, but I feel happier filing a bug if other browsers are correct.
  74. # [01:14] <Hixie> a text field big enough for 3000000000 characters is ridiculous. :-)
  75. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> Otherwise we'd want to consider a spec change instead.
  76. # [01:14] * gsnedders wonders why it's signed if nothing else
  77. # [01:15] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Not if I'm writing out a large video in binary by hand!
  78. # [01:15] <AryehGregor> I thought the clause is that implementations are allowed to do arbitrary stuff when there are resource limits, not just randomly because they feel like it's ridiculous.
  79. # [01:15] <Hixie> TabAtkins: true, what was i thinking! :-P
  80. # [01:16] <AryehGregor> Gecko and WebKit seem to agree on returning 0 in this case. WebKit is much crazier in other cases, though.
  81. # [01:16] * AryehGregor doesn't understand what WebKit is doing at all
  82. # [01:17] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: If they try and allocate a string of that length for the text input, that's 44GiB
  83. # [01:17] <AryehGregor> I think WebKit is just parsing unsigned integers wrong.
  84. # [01:17] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: I guess that's a hardware limitation :)
  85. # [01:17] <AryehGregor> gsnedders, I didn't even add the element to a document.
  86. # [01:17] <AryehGregor> Pure JS test there.
  87. # [01:17] <AryehGregor> Well, my original test didn't.
  88. # [01:17] <gsnedders> (Though presumably this can't be happening, if Opera still goes for 2^31-1
  89. # [01:17] <AryehGregor> The one I just posted did.
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  101. # [01:53] <erlehmann> >0 in Gecko and WebKit, 2^32 - 1 in Opera.
  102. # [01:53] <erlehmann> That's a pretty big implementation difference ;)
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  105. # [01:59] <erlehmann> even weirder, for data:text/html,<!doctype html><input size=2147483647><script>alert(document.getElementsByTagName("input")[0].size);</script> webkit creates a tiny input field, hehe.
  106. # [01:59] <erlehmann> with data:text/html,<!doctype html><input size=247483647><script>alert(document.getElementsByTagName("input")[0].size);</script> it is huge in the vertical dimension …
  107. # [02:00] <erlehmann> but apparently at my computer (using epiphany) the webkit canvas ends at about 60% width, hahaha
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  149. # [05:23] <llrcombs> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Rarely_Just_TRUE_or_FALSE.aspx <-- what, did Alex call HTML5 out on .canPlayType before it even existed?
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  154. # [05:39] <a-ja> Hixie: ping
  155. # [05:39] <Hixie> hey
  156. # [05:41] <a-ja> 1 sec....c/p issue...brb
  157. # [05:42] <llrcombs> am I the only one that's just a little annoyed by the .canPlayType situation?
  158. # [05:42] <a-ja> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=561636#c37
  159. # [05:42] <a-ja> Hixie: ^^^
  160. # [05:42] <llrcombs> personally, I preface !! every time I call it
  161. # [05:43] <Hixie> llrcombs: what canPlayType situation?
  162. # [05:43] <Hixie> a-ja: looking
  163. # [05:43] <Hixie> a-ja: not sure what i should be looking at
  164. # [05:43] <Hixie> a-ja: what's the question?
  165. # [05:44] <llrcombs> it returns: "", "maybe", or "probably"
  166. # [05:44] <llrcombs> gimmie true/false
  167. # [05:44] <Hixie> llrcombs: we don't know true/false.
  168. # [05:44] <Hixie> llrcombs: we know "definitely not", "i don't know", and "try me"
  169. # [05:44] <a-ja> example output in spec implies "required", but it's not coded that way
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  171. # [05:45] <Hixie> a-ja: how does it imply that?
  172. # [05:45] <llrcombs> so stop not knowing and tell me "try me" or "definitely not"
  173. # [05:45] <a-ja> 2nd line: You cannot complete this form until the field is correct.
  174. # [05:46] <llrcombs> or go for true/false/filenotfound
  175. # [05:47] <a-ja> Hixie: basically....should title be shown when there's a pattern, or validation error msg, or both?
  176. # [05:48] <Hixie> llrcombs: unfortunately that's not how media frameworks work
  177. # [05:48] <llrcombs> well... :(
  178. # [05:48] <Hixie> llrcombs: and changing those is somewhat out of scope for the spec
  179. # [05:48] <Hixie> llrcombs: but if you can get them all to change, i'll be glad to change the spec to match
  180. # [05:49] * llrcombs has found that, in practice, every time I've used !!document.createElement("video").canPlayType("video/video_format") and it's returned true, the format's been playable in my browser
  181. # [05:51] <Hixie> a-ja: i've tried to clarify the examine a little, but not sure how to make it much better
  182. # [05:51] <Hixie> a-ja: i'm no UI expert :-)
  183. # [05:51] <Hixie> a-ja: title="" with pattern="" can be shown whenever the user agent thinks the user needs to know about the pattern
  184. # [05:52] <Hixie> llrcombs: the ideal situation is for us to not need canPlayType at all
  185. # [05:52] <a-ja> k....will have a looksee
  186. # [05:52] <llrcombs> Hixie: agreed
  187. # [05:52] <llrcombs> but Apple/Google/Mozilla will never agree to support every format people use
  188. # [05:52] <llrcombs> and M$ won't even agree with itself
  189. # [05:52] <Hixie> Google and Mozilla have agreed on a format
  190. # [05:52] <Hixie> now go convince apple :-)
  191. # [05:53] <llrcombs> what, WebM?
  192. # [05:53] * llrcombs puts another bug in RADAR
  193. # [05:54] <jamesr> what i want is document.createElement("img").canDisplayType("image/apng")
  194. # [05:54] <llrcombs> lol
  195. # [05:55] <llrcombs> if a browser can't display a PNG, it's made of fail
  196. # [05:55] <llrcombs> same if it returns maybe
  197. # [05:55] <roc> APNG
  198. # [05:55] <jamesr> APNG is less common
  199. # [05:55] <llrcombs> ohwait
  200. # [05:55] <llrcombs> you mean APNG
  201. # [05:55] <jamesr> the idea is still retarded :P
  202. # [05:55] <llrcombs> my bad
  203. # [05:55] <llrcombs> not strictly
  204. # [05:55] <llrcombs> that's actually valid
  205. # [05:56] <jamesr> it's strictly valid the same way as canPlayType, but it's still pretty dumb
  206. # [05:56] <llrcombs> animated PNG, right?
  207. # [05:56] * llrcombs is getting a non-bouncing beachball @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Animated_PNG_example_bouncing_beach_ball.png
  208. # [05:56] * llrcombs files a WebKit bug
  209. # [05:56] <llrcombs> PNG > GIF, so I wants APNG support
  210. # [05:59] <jamesr> the point is nobody would do that. they just figure out what image format works everywhere and use that
  211. # [05:59] <jamesr> APNG doesn't work everywhere so nobody uses it
  212. # [05:59] <jamesr> video should be the same way
  213. # [06:00] <llrcombs> but no one format works everywhere
  214. # [06:00] <llrcombs> so we have workarounds
  215. # [06:00] <llrcombs> remember when IE borked some image formats?
  216. # [06:00] <jamesr> and the solution is to get apple/microsoft to support webm
  217. # [06:00] * llrcombs just filed a QuickTime bug report
  218. # [06:00] <llrcombs> for WebM support
  219. # [06:01] <llrcombs> as for MS, well...
  220. # [06:01] <llrcombs> they're so far from standard as-is
  221. # [06:01] <llrcombs> what formats does <video> support for IE9?
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  223. # [06:05] <llrcombs> ahh
  224. # [06:05] <llrcombs> H.264-only
  225. # [06:05] <llrcombs> a good format in itself, but closed!
  226. # [06:06] <llrcombs> maybe apple will pull out some magic dust and open-sourcify H264 to try to compete with Google
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  228. # [06:09] <a-ja> iirc, ms has said they'll support webm in ie9 *IF* you already have the codec on your system
  229. # [06:10] <llrcombs> same way Safari works
  230. # [06:10] <llrcombs> it supports QT's builtin codecs
  231. # [06:10] <llrcombs> and then whatever you add (I support FLV, AVI, and OGG)
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  234. # [06:23] <a-ja> Hixie: guess that change clarifies a wee bit more. I see that the pattern/title being displayed is a may rather than a should or must in any event
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  275. # [08:48] <annevk5> so is per 2.2 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman#Reasoning Sam Ruby's email also a straw man?
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  277. # [08:49] <annevk5> communication would work better :/
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  298. # [09:49] <annevk5> aah
  299. # [09:50] <annevk5> TextWrangler does not recognize svn move
  300. # [09:54] <Hixie> man, i keep having problems with this canvas e-mail i'm writing
  301. # [09:54] <Hixie> i've already lost the entire e-mail once
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  319. # [10:30] <B1OS> is it possible to 'send' an audio track to a html5 player without placing it inside the <audio> tags?
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  321. # [10:30] <B1OS> so i would click an mp3 file thats outside of the <audio> tag and it will play, somehow, in the player...
  322. # [10:31] <annevk5> if I understand what you mean that'd be possible using some scripting
  323. # [10:35] <B1OS> i'll give it a try and post back
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  325. # [10:37] <B1OS> because the mp3 files will be a directory listing using php
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  328. # [10:39] <B1OS> like this: http://tjn.no-ip.org/music1 and there will just be a single html5 player in the header
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  345. # [11:12] <annevk5> so wtf
  346. # [11:12] <annevk5> is greg proposing changing the framing or not?
  347. # [11:13] <annevk5> his message to me made it seem like he was not, but the last paragraph in his latest makes it seem like he does
  348. # [11:13] <annevk5> blargh
  349. # [11:13] * Quits: Heimidal (~heimidal@unaffiliated/heimidal) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  350. # [11:15] <jgraham> "Can you post a summary?" "I will refrain from reiterating the detail here"
  351. # [11:15] <jgraham> Huh?
  352. # [11:15] <jgraham> Summary implies "no detail"
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  375. # [13:52] <annevk5> euh, so now issues can be opened because a bug has not been replied to?
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  378. # [13:55] * annevk5 asks
  379. # [14:00] <Lachy> I recall people attempting to do that with some issues before. It sucks that some people lack patience, but they still shouldn't be able to do that
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  414. # [16:44] * Lachy wonders why an editorial issue like issue-109 is considered significant enough for even having a poll
  415. # [16:45] <Workshiva> Because it's less work for the chairs to put up a poll than handle the fallout of refusing? :P
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  417. # [16:49] <jgraham> Maybe we should have a competition to try and get the most trivial issue possible taken to a poll
  418. # [16:49] <jgraham> Although I think Julian already won
  419. # [16:49] <Workshiva> Tabs vs spaces for indentation in markup examples, go
  420. # [16:49] <Lachy> I don't know, the wording of a heading seems significantly more trivial than the ascii reference.
  421. # [16:50] <jgraham> Lachy: Well I thought that, but > 0 people will read the heading title
  422. # [16:50] * jgraham wonders if he can make it an Issue that Hixie edits in emacs not Vi
  423. # [16:50] <Lachy> Hixie does edit in Emacs already.
  424. # [16:51] <jgraham> Yes, that is the Issue
  425. # [16:51] <Workshiva> He should alternate between editors
  426. # [16:51] <Workshiva> That's the only way to reach consensus
  427. # [16:54] <Philip`> History shows that it's okay to rely on a single editor, as long as there's a token appearance from another editor from another organisation to assuage people's fears that the first editor will monopolise the process
  428. # [16:54] <Philip`> then you can drop the second editor after a couple of years when nobody cares any more
  429. # [16:55] <Philip`> So I suggest the issue could be resolved by just using Vi for a little bit and then switching back to Emacs for all the serious work
  430. # [16:56] <jgraham> It's not possible to use vi for a little bit; it takes a lot of concerted effort just wo work out how to insert a character
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  432. # [16:58] * Philip` wonders if it's bad to use Opera's bug wizard when he's too lazy to figure out how to use the proper BTS entry form
  433. # [16:58] <jgraham> Philip`: Not really, unless you want to do something you can't do with the bug wizard like CC someone
  434. # [16:59] <gsnedders> Philip`: I'm not really sure it's less of a mess
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  501. # [19:52] <annevk5> we appreciate all your bug entries :)
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  503. # [19:55] <annevk5> time to land some xhr tests and make everyone cry
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  508. # [20:12] <annevk5> ah damn
  509. # [20:12] <annevk5> Philip`, how did you configure hg again to push?
  510. # [20:12] <annevk5> it was something simple but I forgot :/
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  512. # [20:13] <Philip`> annevk5: Do you mean configuring the username/password?
  513. # [20:13] <annevk5> yeah
  514. # [20:13] <annevk5> not the ui bit, but the actual bit that matters
  515. # [20:13] <Philip`> [auth]
  516. # [20:13] <Philip`> w3c.prefix = dvcs.w3.org/hg/
  517. # [20:13] <Philip`> w3c.username = ...
  518. # [20:13] <Philip`> w3c.password = ...
  519. # [20:13] <Philip`> That bit?
  520. # [20:13] <annevk5> yay
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  522. # [20:16] <annevk5> Philip`, that should get read from repository/.hg/hgrc as well no?
  523. # [20:17] <annevk5> aah, https
  524. # [20:17] <annevk5> doh
  525. # [20:19] <Philip`> I expect it should
  526. # [20:20] <annevk5> how do you set a default repository to pull and push from?
  527. # [20:21] <Philip`> [paths]
  528. # [20:21] <Philip`> default = https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html/
  529. # [20:21] <Philip`> in the .hg/hgrc
  530. # [20:21] <annevk5> i should write a blog post on this too
  531. # [20:21] <annevk5> this is the second time I needed this info and couldn't find it in the IRC logs
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  533. # [20:22] <jgraham> You heard of Google, right :)
  534. # [20:22] <annevk5> ah yeah, and then I can put the [auth] / [ui] stuff in a higher level .hgrc
  535. # [20:22] <annevk5> jgraham, didn't help
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  539. # [20:32] <henrikbjorn> Hey i have a question about header (the page header) and multiple nav elements. I have two main navigation parts on my site. One being a sections like "News, Gallery" etc. and the other being a based on the choice of section "submenu". would a <header><nav /><nav /></header> be the solution or a <nav> with to <ul /> in it ?
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  542. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> Man, people shouldn't use the world "halting problem" for things that aren't the halting problem. It confuses my brain.
  543. # [20:41] <TabAtkins> henrikbjorn: Don't overthink it. Just wrap your navigations blocks in <nav>, and place them where it feels appropriate.
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  545. # [20:41] <henrikbjorn> so one nav with two lists?
  546. # [20:42] <henrikbjorn> cant seem to understand if its valid or not by the spec
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  548. # [20:42] <TabAtkins> One <nav> with two <ul>s is fine, or two <nav>s with their own <ul>. Whichever.
  549. # [20:43] <henrikbjorn> okay thanks :)
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  567. # [21:53] <TabAtkins> In Paper's email on the datatime <input> thread, anyone know what is meant by "Christian/Hebrew (Sun–Sat, no splits), US (Sun–Sat, splits)". I don't know what a "split" is or how the US and Christain calendars differ.
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  570. # [21:58] <Philip`> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-day_week#Week_numbering
  571. # [21:58] <aho> TabAtkins, in some calendars the weeks starts with so - in others with mo
  572. # [21:58] <Philip`> TabAtkins: Sounds like it might mean whether the first week is split across two years
  573. # [21:58] <Philip`> or whether the first week always starts on 1 Jan
  574. # [21:58] <aho> eh... su :>
  575. # [21:59] <TabAtkins> aho: Nah, that's referring to a different distinction (which he makes between another calendar system running Mon-Sun).
  576. # [21:59] <TabAtkins> Philip`: That makes sense.
  577. # [21:59] <aho> i'd like a more logical calendar... 13 months with 4 weeks each... and one extra day (or 2) :>
  578. # [21:59] <TabAtkins> No, 13 months of 28 days is horrible.
  579. # [21:59] <TabAtkins> You want 12 months of 30 days, with 5/6 intercalary days.
  580. # [21:59] <aho> why? would you miss quarters that much?
  581. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> No, I just hate 13 and 28. They're very bad numbers for mental math.
  582. # [22:00] <aho> well... the first of each months is a monday
  583. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> tantek has a great calendar scheme up on his site.
  584. # [22:00] <aho> and so on
  585. # [22:00] <aho> would make things a lot easier
  586. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> Oh yeah, in the 12/30 calendar, each week is 5 days.
  587. # [22:00] <Philip`> Regular calendar systems are boring, because your birthday would be on the same day every year
  588. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> So every month starts on Monday too.
  589. # [22:01] <Philip`> so some people would be stuck on weekdays and some on weekends
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  591. # [22:01] <aho> 3 days work, 2 days weekend... sound great to me
  592. # [22:01] <aho> ;D
  593. # [22:01] <Philip`> which wouldn't be fair
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  595. # [22:02] <TabAtkins> aho: It's not *quite* as good as it sounds, since you have more weeks. But that's is a good bit more weekend. To get close to the current weekend amount, you can do alternating 3/4 day workweeks.
  596. # [22:03] <AryehGregor> Philip`, just adopt the convention that birthdays are all celebrated on some fixed day of the week. Like Monday holidays.
  597. # [22:05] <aho> while we're at it... something regular for time would be nice too (no timezones) :>
  598. # [22:06] <aho> sorta like swatch beats
  599. # [22:06] <aho> i really liked that idea
  600. # [22:06] <TabAtkins> Check out www.xanthir.com
  601. # [22:06] * TabAtkins loves beats.
  602. # [22:06] * TabAtkins just wishes they'd standardized on GMT, rather than GMT+1.
  603. # [22:07] <TabAtkins> <3 millidays.
  604. # [22:07] <aho> heh
  605. # [22:07] <aho> (i see ripped mario sprites...) :>
  606. # [22:08] <Philip`> We need to get a group of people to agree on how we should redesign dates and times and timezones in an ideal world, and then get one member of the group to become a world dictator who can force everyone to adopt the new system
  607. # [22:08] <Philip`> Otherwise it's just going to be a waste of effort :-(
  608. # [22:08] <TabAtkins> aho: You should see the current time in beats, written on the hill.
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  610. # [22:08] <TabAtkins> And yes, ripped mario sprites.
  611. # [22:08] <aho> ISO 8601 is nice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
  612. # [22:08] <TabAtkins> Philip`: Agreed.
  613. # [22:08] <aho> (the date formatting part)
  614. # [22:08] <aho> @879 it is :)
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  616. # [22:10] <TabAtkins> Honestly, who needs more than 90s resolution in the base value? Not me. And decimal beats are just fine for when you do.
  617. # [22:10] <TabAtkins> Also: no leap seconds or other ridiculousness. The length of a beat naturally changes with the length of a day.
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  620. # [22:11] <Philip`> Variable-length time units sound fun when you're trying to do any kind of precise measurements of anything
  621. # [22:11] <TabAtkins> That's what seconds are for.
  622. # [22:11] <Philip`> where by "fun" I mean "terrible"
  623. # [22:12] <Philip`> So we've got to have two independent time units, and remember how to translate between them?
  624. # [22:12] <TabAtkins> Yes, though switching between them should rarely be necessary in casual contexts.
  625. # [22:12] <Philip`> where the translation depends on continually-updated observations of the earth's rotation so you can't even write a static algorithm for it?
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  628. # [22:13] <TabAtkins> And in any case, we still keep the timestamp, which requires similar translation already.
  629. # [22:14] <Philip`> People are lazy and will write software that uses the same units internally as it uses on its UI, and if the human-readable UI units are something crazy then that'll infect the internals of the software too and cause all sorts of bugs
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  631. # [22:15] <TabAtkins> Might as well make the conversion somewhat harder so people will just store dates using timestamps anyway. Yay!
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  633. # [22:16] <TabAtkins> Converting from timestamp -> current human-readable time is roughly equivalent to converting from timestamp -> millidays.
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  635. # [22:19] <TabAtkins> (In other words, pretending that we currently keep time with seconds is silly in the first place. We keep time with a mixed-radix system based on both days (and composites of such) and seconds (and composites of such). Converting from seconds-based time to days-and-seconds-based time is approximately equally difficult to just converting from seconds-based to days-based.)
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  637. # [22:22] * drunknbass is now known as drunknbass|away
  638. # [22:23] <TabAtkins> (At least, for computers. For humans, 1 beat is about 100 seconds (roughly 15% off, but close enough for casual work). That's easier to do mentally than juggling multiples of 60 and 24.)
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  673. # [23:39] * cardona507_ is now known as cardona507
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  685. # [23:58] * drunknbass|away is now known as drunknbass
  686. # Session Close: Thu Aug 12 00:00:00 2010

The end :)