/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-10-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Oct 02 00:00:01 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Quit: boaz)
  4. # [00:01] <annevk> zcorpan, yeah, I think so
  5. # [00:01] <Hixie> zcorpan: we added the Web to emphasise that it was optimised for the web, and not other environments (like servers)
  6. # [00:01] <annevk> they can have Document Object Model Level 3 Core
  7. # [00:01] <annevk> :)
  8. # [00:02] <annevk> if I can manage to convince the W3C Team I'd prefer to just go with TR/domcore and DOM Core as it is less to remember
  9. # [00:02] <Hixie> the problem was people thinking "DOM Core" was for them, when it was for the web
  10. # [00:02] <Hixie> oh for the short name sure
  11. # [00:02] * Hixie doesn't really care about the TR/ page anymore anyway
  12. # [00:03] <zcorpan> i don't think it needs to be emphasized in the name of the spec
  13. # [00:03] <zcorpan> not that i really care though :)
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  15. # [00:04] <annevk> it's not a big thing, it's just slightly more convenient if it's shorter
  16. # [00:05] <annevk> the alternative would be "Web DOM" which includes the basics of events
  17. # [00:05] <jgraham> I prefer "Web"
  18. # [00:05] <jgraham> I mean "Web DOM Core"
  19. # [00:05] <jgraham> Or just "Web DOM"
  20. # [00:05] <Hixie> Web DOM is good
  21. # [00:05] <annevk> yeah well, if you wanna take over editing you can name it jgraham :)
  22. # [00:06] <Hixie> it's indeed up to the editor :-)
  23. # [00:06] <jgraham> I can take over to edit the title
  24. # [00:06] <jgraham> And then hand it back to you when I realise that you get paid for it
  25. # [00:06] <jgraham> and I don't
  26. # [00:06] <jgraham> :p
  27. # [00:06] <Hixie> they don't pay you?! :-P
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  29. # [00:06] <jgraham> Not to edit Web DOM Core, no
  30. # [00:07] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  31. # [00:08] <jgraham> (seriously, I don't really see what the advantage of a shorter title is, whereas havin "web" in there explicitly sets the right expectations for who the spec is aimed at)
  32. # [00:09] <jgraham> (calling it "We don't care about Java servers DOM Core" would also work, but seems unweildy)
  33. # [00:10] * weinig is now known as weinig|away
  34. # [00:12] <annevk> Web DOM Core is annoying to type; DOM Core less so
  35. # [00:12] <annevk> it's like HTML5 vs Web Applications 1.0
  36. # [00:13] * Hixie notes he went back to Web Applications 1.0 :-)
  37. # [00:13] <gsnedders> annevk: Then you'll have Java people complaining it's incompatible with deloyed code.
  38. # [00:14] <annevk> I hope to go to just DOM one day :)
  39. # [00:14] <jgraham> I would drop the "core" rather than the "web"
  40. # [00:14] <annevk> gsnedders, it's not a successor to what came before, it's just based on
  41. # [00:14] <jgraham> annevk: I think you will still get complaints
  42. # [00:14] * weinig|away is now known as weinig
  43. # [00:15] <annevk> well that is inevitable
  44. # [00:16] <zcorpan> nn
  45. # [00:16] <jgraham> gn
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  49. # [00:19] <annevk> maybe we should add a color to it
  50. # [00:20] <annevk> Green DOM Core
  51. # [00:20] <Moo--__> sounds like a plot twist from Matrix
  52. # [00:20] * Quits: oal (~oal@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  53. # [00:21] <annevk> DOM Red Pill
  54. # [00:21] <annevk> (original: http://annevankesteren.nl/2007/04/html-red-pill )
  55. # [00:22] <Moo--__> SVG sucks? :<
  56. # [00:23] <annevk> it's funny that all those things were contested and none of those things changed
  57. # [00:23] <Moo--__> annevk: well, you know.. the general state of human kind
  58. # [00:23] <annevk> Moo--__, don't pay attention to that guy
  59. # [00:23] <annevk> Moo--__, he claimed CSS and standards suck too
  60. # [00:24] <Moo--__> annevk: I don't trust monotone people with hercules poirot moustache
  61. # [00:25] <annevk> also, if you peek in the source you'll find out he's drawn using SVG
  62. # [00:26] <annevk> good night everyone
  63. # [00:26] <Moo--__> good night
  64. # [00:31] <mven> night
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  67. # [00:41] <cardona507> drawn using svg - nice
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  76. # [01:11] <Hixie> what's with webkit not honouring <canvas> aspect ratios?
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  88. # [01:57] <TabAtkins> Hixie: In what respect? Repro?
  89. # [01:57] * TabAtkins doesn't know if it does or not, is just curious.
  90. # [01:57] <Hixie> let me make a test case, hold on
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  92. # [01:59] <AlexLibman> Is this channel a wishing well for HTML(5,6,...) improvements? :P
  93. # [02:00] <TabAtkins> You can discuss them, though sending an email to the WHATWG or HTMLWG lists is required to actually get Hixie to pay attention. ^_^
  94. # [02:00] <Hixie> just HTML :-)
  95. # [02:00] <AlexLibman> I wish HTML had built-in Metalink functionality, so I could specify multiple places where a link can be downloaded in case one of the mirrors is down or slow. That would make the Web a much more resilient place...
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  97. # [02:03] <TabAtkins> Can't you just provide multiple links? Something like <a>Link!</a><small><a>mirror 1</a><a>mirror 2</a><a>mirror 3</a>.
  98. # [02:04] <AlexLibman> Right now I would need to have a JavaScript solution which onload silently loops through all links on the site, skipping offsite links, and preloads the href URL via XMLHttpRequest. If the status code isn't OK or response time is too slow, it modifies the URL for the second mirror in the list and tries again, replacing the href when successful. If HTML would just allow multiple href's per link, this wouldn't require slowing down the clien
  99. # [02:05] <Hixie> TabAtkins: http://www.hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/css/box/replaced/006.html compare firefox (correct rendering), webkit (fails)
  100. # [02:06] <AlexLibman> Most users find that annoying, and the browser can do a much better job picking the ideal mirror, the way Metalink / chunk downloaders do. Because of this annoyance, much fewer sites set up mirrors, and thus the Web experiences more errors as the result.
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  102. # [02:06] <AlexLibman> By "find that annoying" I meant "<a>Link!</a><small><a>mirror 1</a><a>mirror 2</a><a>mirror 3</a>"
  103. # [02:08] <abarth> AlexLibman: what sort of UI would the browser provide that the site can't make itself?
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  105. # [02:11] <AlexLibman> No UI, just a loop through the list of hrefs instead of one, stopping on the first that doesn't return a connection / HTTP error / timeout. No way to do this via JS w/o prefetching all the on-site links.
  106. # [02:12] <AlexLibman> I guess when linking to large files some browsers could use secondary mirrors for chunk downloading acceleration, but that's optional.
  107. # [02:13] <AlexLibman> Right now links are a send-and-pray process, if the destination server is down or slashdotted there's nothing the sending page can do.
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  112. # [02:33] <variable> AlexLibman, I somewhat agree. it would be interesting to see something like an altlink="" feature for a links
  113. # [02:34] <variable> I don't know what the tradeoffs are though
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  284. # [21:30] <kbrosnan> rezbit: so i'd say you are at the point of copying your profile info over to a clean one
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  286. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> Oooh, mutation events
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  294. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> annevk, what should MutationEvent.relatedNode return for attribute modifications?
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  313. # Session Close: Sun Oct 03 00:00:00 2010

The end :)