/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-10-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 15 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  6. # [01:49] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  7. # [01:49] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 23:03:06
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  29. # [02:55] <AryehGregor> Does http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/10/14/user-experience-evolving-ie9-tabs-in-windows-7.aspx use 100% CPU in Chrome, and scroll really slowly? for anyone else?
  30. # [02:55] <AryehGregor> s/\?/,/
  31. # [02:57] <AryehGregor> I can reproduce with just a video. Scrolling here is really slow: data:text/html,<!doctype html><video src="http://ecn.channel9.msdn.com/o9/ch9/1996/75b453d1-b8e5-4f9e-b295-9e0c016b1996/IE910112010A_ch9.mp4" controls preload="metadata"></video><div style="height:1000em"></div>
  32. # [02:57] <AryehGregor> Guess I should report a bug.
  33. # [02:57] <AryehGregor> . . . tomorrow.
  34. # [02:58] <AryehGregor> (it really messes up Google Reader for me whenever there's an IEBlog post with video)
  35. # [02:58] <AryehGregor> (needless to say, I'm using dev channel here)
  36. # [02:59] <AryehGregor> Hmm, maybe it's trying to use hardware acceleration and hitting nouveau, which is probably even slower than just doing it in software?
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  39. # [03:04] <variable> is there any way to represent a physical page in HTML or CSS ? ie I want to tell the browser to make a new page when printed
  40. # [03:05] <heycam> variable, you can use the page-break-before and page-break-after css properties
  41. # [03:05] <heycam> to force a break somewhere
  42. # [03:05] <heycam> (do browsers look at those? i've only used them (successfully) with prince.)
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  69. # [04:13] <dbaron> Why is the rendering section not in the W3C copy of HTML5?
  70. # [04:13] <jacobolus> anyone know what the state in browsers of SVG Compositing is? http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-SVGCompositing-20090430/
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  72. # [04:21] <heycam> jacobolus, i don't know of implementations in browsers
  73. # [04:22] <othermaciej> me neither
  74. # [04:22] <jacobolus> safari nightlies don't seem to do it anyway
  75. # [04:22] <jacobolus> are browsers planning to implement it sometime?
  76. # [04:22] <othermaciej> (I wasn't aware this even existed for that matter)
  77. # [04:22] <jacobolus> it could be pretty handy
  78. # [04:23] <jacobolus> the spec seems to be written well enough
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  80. # [04:25] <jacobolus> I think it's part of SVG 1.2?
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  82. # [04:26] <jacobolus> http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-SVG2Reqs-20020422/
  83. # [04:26] <heycam> jacobolus, yeah used to be a part of the unfinished SVG 1.2 Full draft
  84. # [04:27] <heycam> which is from around 2004 or something
  85. # [04:27] <jacobolus> aha
  86. # [04:27] <jacobolus> is there any chance svg 1.2/2.0 will ever happen?
  87. # [04:27] <heycam> then recently (a couple of years ago) we started splitting things out of that into separate specs
  88. # [04:27] <jacobolus> or are browsers all aiming for 1.1 for the next few years?
  89. # [04:27] <heycam> there'll be no such thing as 1.2 full
  90. # [04:27] <jacobolus> just like w/ css3 or so?
  91. # [04:28] <heycam> 1.1 second edition will be published soon enough (which is just 1.1 plus corrections)
  92. # [04:28] <heycam> and 2.0 will be the next worked on version
  93. # [04:28] <jacobolus> are browsers interested in implementing any of it before the spec is somewhat final?
  94. # [04:28] <jacobolus> I don't really follow such things
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  96. # [04:29] <jacobolus> IOW, should I pay any attention to SVG2, or just come back and see in 5 years?
  97. # [04:29] <heycam> heh i dunno about 5 years :)
  98. # [04:29] <jacobolus> 10?
  99. # [04:29] <heycam> and i'm only just back into it so i don't know what it's current status is
  100. # [04:29] <jacobolus> :p
  101. # [04:30] <heycam> i guess this is the current state of SVG 2 -- http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/2.0/publish/expanded-toc.html :)
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  112. # [05:02] <roc> TabAtkins: do you have a Mozilla Bugzilla ID?
  113. # [05:07] * roc finds it
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  117. # [05:22] <TabAtkins> roc: What did you need my bugzilla for?
  118. # [05:22] <TabAtkins> Oh, wait, I see.
  119. # [05:22] * TabAtkins should check his email first.
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  121. # [05:22] <roc> no, I should have checked MY email first :-)
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  241. # [11:17] * abarth is now known as abarth|tears
  242. # [11:20] <annevk> dbaron, if you read the logs, afaict the W3C copy of HTML5 does have the rendering section
  243. # [11:22] * jgraham wonders what reduced abarth to tears
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  245. # [11:26] <zcorpan> maybe dbaron was reading the author version?
  246. # [11:39] <abarth|tears> jgraham: sending two hours fixing up someone's webkit patch only to discover that the code doesn't work at all
  247. # [11:39] <abarth|tears> i felt sympathy for all the silly ChangeLog / test idioms / etc junk that new contributors have to learn
  248. # [11:40] <abarth|tears> but, in the end, the code can't possibly work because we don't even use the files he's modifying on Mac :(
  249. # [11:42] <Philip`> (Has anyone got around to doing decent benchmarks of WebP yet?)
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  252. # [11:49] <hsivonen> https://twitter.com/#!/glazou/status/27425504699
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  255. # [11:50] <slartsa> oh my, not much progress in <device>
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  257. # [12:02] * virtuelv wonders who wrote http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/
  258. # [12:03] <virtuelv> hasather pointed out that it uses ol.toc { content: ""; } which is only supported in Opera, and renders the ToC inaccessible
  259. # [12:03] <annevk> I have had this so often: http://xkcd.com/806/
  260. # [12:04] <annevk> KPN sucks
  261. # [12:04] * annevk switched to a different provider that just works
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  263. # [12:15] <slartsa> haha :D
  264. # [12:18] <zcorpan> why is there no ToC in http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/ in opera?
  265. # [12:19] <zcorpan> oh, what virtuelv said
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  268. # [12:32] <jgraham> virtuelv: MikeSmith, I guess
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  282. # [13:43] <VirAlex> hello
  283. # [13:44] <slartsa> hello, how are you?
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  285. # [13:45] <VirAlex> slartsa хорошо спасибо.
  286. # [13:45] <VirAlex> тут можно задать вопрос по поводу стандартов w3c ?
  287. # [13:45] <VirAlex> well thank you.
  288. # [13:45] <VirAlex> here you can ask a question about standards w3c?
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  290. # [13:45] <VirAlex> I am interested the class new Audio
  291. # [13:46] <annevk> sure, but this is not the W3C
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  293. # [13:46] <jgraham> VirAlex: The best thing is just to ask
  294. # [13:47] <jgraham> Rather than meta-asking first
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  296. # [13:49] <VirAlex> well, can read and write in the audio stream from javascript?
  297. # [13:49] <VirAlex> that this function is supported by the Chrome, FireFox, IE9 and Opera 10.5 +
  298. # [13:50] <jgraham> No, although Chrome and Firefox are developing experimental APIs in that area and there is some standards work starting up
  299. # [13:53] <VirAlex> Yes I have seen audio API in FireFox. but all the methods and properties of the class audio have the prefix "moz", ie obviously work suddenly browsers will not.
  300. # [13:53] <VirAlex> If any standards in this area? (Read / write to a stream)
  301. # [13:53] <VirAlex> These standards can be expected? there are recommendations w3c?
  302. # [13:53] <jgraham> The standards work is just getting going
  303. # [13:53] <jgraham> Nothing concrete yet
  304. # [13:54] <VirAlex> thanks!
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  325. # [14:36] <zcorpan> lol, there's a green spot in the middle of my screen and i couldn't for the life of me figure out where it was coming from. turns out it was the sun light on the back of the screen going through the apple icon but not the other parts of the screen
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  327. # [14:53] <jgraham> So, pop quiz
  328. # [14:54] <jgraham> What's the easiest way to replicate git stash in mercurial?
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  330. # [14:55] <jgraham> Where are all the mozilla people when you need them? :)
  331. # [14:55] * zcorpan solves the problem by putting an opera logo over the apple logo
  332. # [14:55] <jcranmer> if I knew what git stash did...
  333. # [14:57] * hsivonen has no idea what git stash does
  334. # [14:58] <jgraham> It saves the changes in your working tree (on a local branch as it happens) giving you a clean repositoty to pull into. It then lets you reapply those changes later on
  335. # [14:58] <jgraham> http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-stash.html
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  337. # [14:59] <hsivonen> jgraham: sounds like the nested repo provided by Merqurial Queues
  338. # [14:59] <jcranmer> hg qnew <some patch name> && hg qpop
  339. # [14:59] <jgraham> hsivonen: So that's what I thought
  340. # [14:59] <jgraham> But the situation is this
  341. # [14:59] <hsivonen> jgraham: so I have a repo of my patch queue: http://hg.mozilla.org/users/hsivonen_iki.fi/patches
  342. # [14:59] <jgraham> I want to stash the local changes
  343. # [15:00] <jgraham> Pull and merge
  344. # [15:00] <jgraham> and push the result
  345. # [15:00] <jcranmer> well then
  346. # [15:00] <jgraham> and then reapply the local changes
  347. # [15:00] <jgraham> I don't know how to do that with mq
  348. # [15:00] <jcranmer> make the patch, pop it off
  349. # [15:00] <hsivonen> jgraham: don't you want to *rebase* the local changes while at it?
  350. # [15:00] <jcranmer> pull, do the merge, push, hg qpush in the end
  351. # [15:00] <jgraham> and my naive attempts gave error messages
  352. # [15:00] <hsivonen> jgraham: have you enabled mq?
  353. # [15:01] <jgraham> hsivonen: Sure, that somes for free with git :)
  354. # [15:01] <jgraham> hsivonen: Yes
  355. # [15:01] <jgraham> and I have added the local stuff to a patch
  356. # [15:01] <jgraham> and I have pulled and merged
  357. # [15:01] <jgraham> and now I am stuck
  358. # [15:01] <hsivonen> jgraham: is the patch in mq?
  359. # [15:01] <jgraham> trying to commit the merge
  360. # [15:01] <jgraham> hsivonen: yes
  361. # [15:01] <jgraham> (the local patch, that is)
  362. # [15:02] <hsivonen> jgraham: did you pull with hg pull --rebase otherrepo?
  363. # [15:02] <jgraham> No, but I'm starting to wish I had :)
  364. # [15:02] <hsivonen> well, there's your problem
  365. # [15:02] <hsivonen> so, first apply all the patches in mq you want to rebase
  366. # [15:02] <hsivonen> then do
  367. # [15:02] <hsivonen> hg pull --rebase otherrepo
  368. # [15:03] <hsivonen> *but*
  369. # [15:03] <hsivonen> before you do, make sure you have a merge tool configured and you know how to use it
  370. # [15:03] <jgraham> Right, the problem is that it's not clear to me how to get from where I am to there without starting again
  371. # [15:04] <hsivonen> did you pull with mq patches applied or unapplied?
  372. # [15:04] <jgraham> Applied, it seems
  373. # [15:05] <jgraham> No wait
  374. # [15:05] <jgraham> That makes no sense
  375. # [15:06] <jgraham> Oh I'm sonfused
  376. # [15:06] <jgraham> *confused
  377. # [15:06] <jgraham> Anyway I guess I can work it out
  378. # [15:06] <hsivonen> if you had mq patches applied and you pulled without --rebase, I have no idea what kind of mess you've gotten your repo into or how to recover
  379. # [15:06] <jgraham> I never thought I would be prasing git for its usability
  380. # [15:07] <jcranmer> hsivonen: it's relatively fine unless you updated off of the mq series
  381. # [15:07] <jgraham> Thanks for the help
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  399. # [16:03] * karlcow made more tests for document.lastModified and he is crying :)
  400. # [16:06] <jgraham> I find writing tests often has that effect
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  404. # [16:07] <Philip`> It's more fun to write tests that make other people cry
  405. # [16:08] <karlcow> hehe
  406. # [16:08] <jgraham> If you want to do that join one of those parental testing companies
  407. # [16:08] <jgraham> Make some DNA tests
  408. # [16:09] <KaOSoFt> ._.
  409. # [16:10] <karlcow> realized that document.lastModified in firefox4.0b6 and ie8 returns (when HTTP Last-Modified *is* specified) the date for the local timezone
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  412. # [16:10] <karlcow> HTTP says Last-Modified: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:11:52 GMT
  413. # [16:11] <karlcow> IE8 et Firefox 4.0b6 say 10/13/2010 13:11:52
  414. # [16:11] <karlcow> Opera and Webkit say Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:11:52 GMT
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  416. # [16:12] <karlcow> HTML5 says MM/DD/YYYY HH:MM:SS (without specifying if timezone matters)
  417. # [16:12] <karlcow> but it is worse when HTTP Last-Modified
  418. # [16:12] <karlcow> is not specified
  419. # [16:13] <karlcow> Opera 10.63 - January 1, 1970 GMT
  420. # [16:13] <karlcow> Safari 5.0.2 - Nil
  421. # [16:13] <karlcow> chrome v6.0.472.63 - Nil
  422. # [16:13] <karlcow> Firefox 4.0b6 - 10/13/2010 14:36:31 (date of the cache)
  423. # [16:13] <karlcow> IE8 - 10/13/2010 14:53:22 (date of now)
  424. # [16:13] <karlcow> HTML5 says date of now (without saying anything about the timezone either)
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  451. # [17:29] <AryehGregor> There's no standard that defines exactly when onclick fires, is there? Like left-click versus middle-click?
  452. # [17:31] <annevk> that's a UI convention
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  461. # [17:56] <AryehGregor> Man, why is it so hard to get a two-byte patch to the GNOME clock thingie reviewed?
  462. # [17:57] <AryehGregor> ("applet" is the word I was looking for)
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  470. # [18:13] <AryehGregor> What's with all the recent spam in the bug tracker?
  471. # [18:15] <Hixie> i added a form to the w3c copy's intro
  472. # [18:15] <Hixie> it apparently needs some work to filter out the non-serious people
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  474. # [18:21] <jgraham> Hixie: At the moment the W3C copy seems to claim that it is out of date and link to itself
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  476. # [18:23] <annevk> should click also fire for rightclick?
  477. # [18:23] <annevk> or does that just give contextmenu events these days?
  478. # [18:23] * abarth|tears is now known as abarth
  479. # [18:23] <TabAtkins_> jgraham: It's simultaneously the most recent version and out of date. What's hard to understand?
  480. # [18:24] <annevk> it's just the WD-in-process version hosted at the editor's draft location
  481. # [18:24] <annevk> happens all the time around publication time
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  485. # [18:30] <Philip`> Sounds like an excellent opportunity to overcomplicate things by forking WD branches from the ED spec trunk
  486. # [18:32] <annevk> can't wait for one of the people who doesn't do any work to suggest that
  487. # [18:32] <annevk> what's up with all the rain btw
  488. # [18:32] <annevk> pretty much all day
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  491. # [18:39] <annevk> in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#multipart/form-data-encoding-algorithm does the last paragraph indicate a willful violation we should call out?
  492. # [18:39] <annevk> i.e. something we might want to update RFC 2388 for one day?
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  496. # [18:43] * AryehGregor lols at the kitchen sink picture
  497. # [18:47] <AryehGregor> So it looks like in Mercurial, rather than using rebasing like in git, people tend to use mq, which accomplishes more or less the same thing.
  498. # [18:47] * Joins: homata (~homata@74.175.89.3)
  499. # [18:47] <AryehGregor> Except I guess the patches are explicitly named?
  500. # [18:48] <annevk> the former head of Adobe's mobile devision is now Mozilla's new CEO?
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  503. # [18:50] <AryehGregor> I don't know, because apparently no one at Wikipedia has figured out he's notable yet, so I have no superficially reliable source of information to consult.
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  505. # [18:51] <Philip`> AryehGregor: They are explicitly named
  506. # [18:51] * Quits: homata (~homata@74.175.89.3) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  507. # [18:52] * Philip` has ~300 patches on one project and keeps running out of original names to use
  508. # [18:52] <Philip`> so I just stick numbers at the end of patch names if it complains I've already got one called that
  509. # [18:52] <annevk> AryehGregor, http://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2010/10/14/introducing-our-new-ceo-gary-kovacs/ is not reliable? oh, I gues it's a blog
  510. # [18:52] <AryehGregor> I just use git rebase for that, but admittedly it can get a bit confusing to cross-correlate the patches if I have two copies rebased to two different pieces of code.
  511. # [18:53] <AryehGregor> annevk, no, no, that's an official organizational blog, it's reliable. Like a press release. But no one's bothered to create the article yet, it seems.
  512. # [18:55] <AryehGregor> Possibly he's not notable yet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)
  513. # [18:55] <AryehGregor> I bet the article would stick if someone created it, though. Just no one has.
  514. # [18:55] * AryehGregor gives it a few more days
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The end :)