/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-11-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Nov 02 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  6. # [00:09] <Rik`> DOMContentLoaded ?
  7. # [00:10] <AryehGregor> Sounds right.
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  19. # [00:42] <cardona507> anyone know what % of html5 tests were submitted by microsoft?
  20. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> You can look yourself to get an idea: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html/file/662a167f802d/tests
  21. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> approved/ and submission/ are the relevant ones.
  22. # [00:44] <AryehGregor> Oh, approved/ doesn't say who submitted them.
  23. # [00:45] <AryehGregor> Well, submission/ does.
  24. # [00:45] <cardona507> thnx AryehGregor
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  124. # [08:06] <necttocon> Philip`: I did not succeed :(
  125. # [08:07] <necttocon> http://js.pastebin.com/RhJUY9KU
  126. # [08:07] <necttocon> The rectangle is not rotating correctly
  127. # [08:08] <necttocon> Anyone mind checking out what I'm doing wrong?
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  139. # [08:22] <necttocon> :-(
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  147. # [08:40] <zcorpan> Philip`: http://canvex.lazyilluminati.com/survey/2007-07-17/analyse.cgi/index says software error
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  150. # [08:52] <othermaciej> good evening
  151. # [08:52] <othermaciej> er, morning
  152. # [08:52] * othermaciej is confused about local time
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  154. # [08:53] <zcorpan> morning
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  157. # [08:54] <zcorpan> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/ie9_outperforms_other_browsers_for_html5_complianc.php
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  160. # [08:58] <hsivonen> It's completely bogus to report results of a woefully incomplete test suite as news. Did the W3C advertise the results?
  161. # [09:00] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/09/how_do_we_test_a_web_browser_o.html
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  163. # [09:01] <hsivonen> zcorpan: I think that blog post shouldn't have been posted
  164. # [09:01] <hsivonen> well, not with the result table
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  192. # [09:57] <annevk> Hixie, dropzone should accept image/* stuff like stuff
  193. # [09:57] <annevk> Hixie, just like <input type=file>
  194. # [10:04] <erlehmann> hehe, dropzone sounds like a web storage startup name ;)
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  196. # [10:06] <micheil> hey, is the stuff mozilla's doing with capturing audio/video part of any spec?
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  198. # [10:12] <smaug____> micheil: what capturing?
  199. # [10:12] <micheil> hmm,, one sec
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  231. # [11:22] <othermaciej> Hixie: would it be feasible to add a close/collapse box to the warning, same as the WHATWG bug box has?
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  239. # [11:52] <Philip`> zcorpan: That page has intentionally not worked for ages (since moving to a new server)
  240. # [11:53] <zcorpan> Philip`: oh. i was following links from philip.html5.org
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  264. # [12:46] <Lachy> "Note that this means XHTML documents cannot be loaded into frames unless the parent page is also running in IE9 Standards Mode. These versioning rules also apply to SVG documents received as "image/svg+xml"." -- http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/11/01/xhtml-in-ie9.aspx
  265. # [12:47] <Lachy> that seems like a really stupid restriction.
  266. # [12:48] <Lachy> but I guess that probably has something to do with them not being able to run multiple rendering engines simultaneously in the some tab or something.
  267. # [12:48] * Parts: Steve_B (~chatzilla@gatek.thls.bbc.co.uk)
  268. # [12:49] <Lachy> though, that doesn't make sense either. How would they handle any regular quirks mode HTML page with an iframe containing a standards mode HTML, or vice versa.
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  287. # [13:52] <virtuelv> Hixie: seen http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dzww6/who_edits_the_w3c_specs_they_look_like_a_ransom/c146krx ?
  288. # [13:54] <jcranmer> I don't find them that unreadable
  289. # [13:57] <zcorpan> "It's not only the HTML5 spec. All of the W3C specs, ever since the nineties, have been written in a very inaccessible style. They are just not very good at writing accessible specs."
  290. # [13:59] <jcranmer> try reading some of MS's published specs
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  303. # [14:25] <virtuelv> I sort of understand those people, though
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  305. # [14:26] <virtuelv> reading the HTML5 spec isn't easy, and it could be made easier
  306. # [14:26] <virtuelv> then again, I'm not entirely certain their proposed fixes are what I would want either
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  308. # [14:29] <Workshiva> It's written for spec lawyers by spec lawyers, if anything it's not verbose and specific enough.
  309. # [14:29] <karlcow> virtuelv: The readers audience is very diverse, but the specification target audience is becoming smaller. More and more focused on implementers and a lot less on Web developers and Integrators
  310. # [14:29] <annevk> we're not opposed to making changes though
  311. # [14:29] <annevk> though the style sheet is sort of out our control when it comes to the W3C version
  312. # [14:30] <annevk> if the reddit people want us to reword, they can file bugs and we will
  313. # [14:30] <annevk> don't wanna write incomprehensibly on purpose
  314. # [14:31] <karlcow> annevk: not sure the css alone will change anything. It might help for readability, but not really for understandability for web dev/int.
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  316. # [14:32] <Philip`> I doubt the spec is written as absolutely clearly as it possibly could be written without comprising verbosity/specificity/etc
  317. # [14:32] <othermaciej> the font changes can make it painful to scan the text, but on the other hand are useful for calling out key terms when close reading
  318. # [14:32] <Philip`> so it's probably good to welcome suggested improvements
  319. # [14:33] <Philip`> as long as they're sufficiently improved to balance the risk of introducing bugs due to changing the text
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  323. # [14:42] <slinkcoding> re
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  350. # [15:44] <MikeSmith> slinkcoding: hey
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  370. # [16:32] <hober> Interesting point about punycoded urls in comments
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  372. # [16:33] <hober> ( http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-November/028937.html )
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  378. # [16:38] <zcorpan> i guess we could make -- valid now that firefox is going to ship with html5 parser
  379. # [16:39] <hober> I'm reminded that vendor-specific attributes were once foo--bar-baz
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  382. # [16:43] * Philip` would guess that JS code like "i--;" would be more likely to occur in commented-out code than Punycoded URLs
  383. # [16:44] <zcorpan> or html comments
  384. # [16:44] <zcorpan> which do break if you try to comment them out, but might not give any validation errors
  385. # [16:44] <zcorpan> if we make -- valid
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  387. # [16:45] <Philip`> Like "<!-- foo <!-- bar --> baz -->"?
  388. # [16:45] <Philip`> Maybe the rendering of "baz -->" on the screen would make it obvious enough
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  391. # [16:54] <zcorpan> yes
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  401. # [17:09] <Workshiva> Comments in comments could be solved by looking for <!-- instead of --
  402. # [17:09] <zcorpan> yes
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  408. # [17:25] <hober> well, mr last week has woken up; i guess (s)he's at tpac again
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  410. # [17:27] <Philip`> Or just making stuff up
  411. # [17:34] <hsivonen> Hixie: how come you are not at TPAC?
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  500. # [20:20] <gsnedders> Gah, having an address with heading content within it makes sense for a CV where the header can just be the person's name…
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  510. # [20:46] <hober> indeed
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  515. # [20:48] <Philip`> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/01/w3c_html5_conformance_tests/ / http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/11/02/1851255
  516. # [20:49] <Philip`> Those results are spreading quite a bit
  517. # [20:49] <annevk> yeah, oops
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  519. # [20:50] <Hixie> guess the other browser vendors should start contributing more tests :-)
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  521. # [20:51] <Hixie> i love the last two sentences of http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/11/02/1851255
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  523. # [20:54] <annevk> that's /. for ya
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  525. # [20:55] <hsivonen> Hixie: that's awesome
  526. # [20:56] <cardona507> please other browser vendors submit tests :)
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  528. # [21:06] <annevk> Hixie, should I file a bug on allowing image/* in dropzone=""?
  529. # [21:06] <Hixie> i'd rather you filed bugs on use cases than solutions :-)
  530. # [21:06] <Hixie> when would you want to accept an image/tiff file?
  531. # [21:07] <Hixie> or image/x-proprietary-3d-bitmap ?
  532. # [21:07] <annevk> why do we have <input type=file accept=image/*>?
  533. # [21:07] <gsnedders> Am I right thinking there are no event handlers that when set on Window should actually get set on Document?
  534. # [21:07] <annevk> yes
  535. # [21:08] <annevk> Hixie, I think they should be consistent, mainly
  536. # [21:08] <Hixie> annevk: because we need a way to say "display an image-based UI"
  537. # [21:08] <Hixie> but that doesn't make sense for DND
  538. # [21:08] <Hixie> since you already have the image when doign the drop
  539. # [21:08] <annevk> Hixie, you can display an image-based UI for accept=image/png,image/jpeg etc. too now?
  540. # [21:09] <annevk> s/now?/no?/
  541. # [21:09] <zcorpan> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Implementations_in_Web_browsers is pretty out of date
  542. # [21:09] <annevk> but I guess it is less intuitive
  543. # [21:09] <Hixie> annevk: you could
  544. # [21:09] <annevk> but the UI problem seems the same for dropzone=""
  545. # [21:09] <Hixie> annevk: it would be a bit weird though
  546. # [21:10] <annevk> if you want to indicate something to AT
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  549. # [21:11] <Hixie> annevk: you don't look at the dropzones until after you've started the drag, typically
  550. # [21:11] <Hixie> annevk: i mean, i suppose a UI could expose this info, but it'd be pretty unusual
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  552. # [21:12] <annevk> fair point
  553. # [21:12] <annevk> alright
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  569. # [22:05] <karlcow> http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2010/11/02/changes-to-bird-s-eye-and-3d-maps.aspx
  570. # [22:05] <karlcow> "As a consequence, we are also announcing that we will be discontinuing investment in the Bing Maps 3D control plug-in. "
  571. # [22:07] <aho> "Silverlight" pfeh... *spit*
  572. # [22:07] <aho> <:
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  591. # [22:32] <zcorpan> where's mikesmith's html version of es5 again?
  592. # [22:32] <Philip`> http://sideshowbarker.github.com/es5-spec/
  593. # [22:33] <zcorpan> thanks
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  599. # [22:43] <karlcow> i have a mail blocked in the public-html-testsuite :)
  600. # [22:43] <karlcow> to add a boilerplate to the page. :)
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  612. # [23:10] <Hixie> can someone explain the http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 use case to me and in particular explain how it is different than inserting spans of text from another language (the use case in bug 10807)?
  613. # [23:10] <Hixie> AryehGregor?
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  615. # [23:20] <Steve^> Can't they have the same use case?
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  617. # [23:22] <Hixie> then they'd be the same bug
  618. # [23:22] <Steve^> 10808's benefit comes more from user inputted content
  619. # [23:23] <Hixie> but when i marked them as duplicates of each other, people said they had different use cases
  620. # [23:23] <Hixie> (without saying how)
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  622. # [23:24] <Steve^> I don't see a problem with them being a single bug, but with 2 proposed changes
  623. # [23:24] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@93-158-28-13.subs.ibrowse.com) (Quit: nattokirai)
  624. # [23:24] <Steve^> except maybe for ease of discussion
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  628. # [23:31] <Hixie> i don't care about hte proposed changes yet
  629. # [23:31] <Hixie> i just want to understand what the problem is
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  632. # [23:45] <Steve^> The use cases are (1) Being able to display arbitrary content in a mixed rtl/ltr site. (2) Having user input respond better when rtl is typed in an ltr environment and visa versa
  633. # [23:45] <Hixie> http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/1102-html-plh/#(5) is funny, given that almost all the "resolved lc" ones were due to the brief lack of spam filtering
  634. # [23:45] <Steve^> I couldn't say which bug is which case, it seems to have blurred slightly
  635. # [23:45] <Hixie> Steve^: ok (1) is clearly bug 10807. Can you explain (2) a little?
  636. # [23:47] <Steve^> I tried it out on jsbin, typing in a textarea set to rtl is funky. The site would currently need to choose whether input is ltr or rtl, they couldn't accept both
  637. # [23:48] <Hixie> that sounds like the problem in bug 10821
  638. # [23:55] <Steve^> agreed
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  640. # Session Close: Wed Nov 03 00:00:00 2010

The end :)