/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-11-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Nov 19 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  13. # [00:47] <AryehGregor> Hmm, caniuse.com crashes Firefox 4b7 for me.
  14. # [00:47] * AryehGregor submits the crash report, twice
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  45. # [01:41] <AryehGregor> Ugh, Android-like security model for the web: http://blog.chromium.org/2010/11/app-permissions.html
  46. # [01:42] <AryehGregor> That's one of the lamest parts of Android, everyone winds up just giving everything full access to their phone.
  47. # [01:42] <AryehGregor> There has to be a saner way to do it than that.
  48. # [01:42] <boogyman> Stuxnet ftw :-s
  49. # [01:43] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: Give me full-access to your phone.
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  51. # [01:44] <AryehGregor> gsnedders, by "everyone" I meant "normal people", not "me".
  52. # [01:44] * aroben|meeting is now known as aroben
  53. # [01:45] <AryehGregor> At a minimum, users need to be able to deny requested permissions.
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  55. # [01:46] <AryehGregor> If some random app claims to need geolocation for no plausible reason, I should be able to deny it.
  56. # [01:46] <AryehGregor> But I don't even care about geolocation, I'm talking about random apps I've tried to install that say they want the rights to *make* *calls*.
  57. # [01:47] <AryehGregor> Like games and stuff.
  58. # [01:47] <AryehGregor> Everyone else just blindly installs all this stuff.
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  107. # [03:02] <Sonja> any recommended <canvas> tutorials for drawing lines and shapes ?
  108. # [03:04] <TabAtkins> Sonja: Try http://diveintohtml5.org/canvas.html#divingin
  109. # [03:05] <Sonja> merci
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  152. # [05:55] <MikeSmith> manogo
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  176. # [07:27] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I wanted to ask if you could please redeploy validator.nu today if you have time
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  178. # [07:28] <MikeSmith> mainly to get the missing-but-required attributes checking live
  179. # [07:31] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: ok
  180. # [07:32] <hsivonen> I guess I should distupgrade my VMs while I'm at it
  181. # [07:32] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: by the way, I spent some time looking into what it would take to port the validator-nu branch changes back to trunk
  182. # [07:33] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: what's your conclusion?
  183. # [07:33] <MikeSmith> too much work :(
  184. # [07:33] <hsivonen> :-(
  185. # [07:33] <MikeSmith> plus, the required-but-missing attributes reporting in the trunk is near worthless
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  188. # [07:35] <hsivonen> even more :-(
  189. # [07:38] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: take a look at https://gist.github.com/706192
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  191. # [07:38] <MikeSmith> what the trunk seems to do is just list out all the allowed attributes
  192. # [07:39] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: wow. that sucks
  193. # [07:39] <MikeSmith> yeah
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  198. # [07:46] <Sirisian> Anyone here much about WebSockets in relation to binary data/ArrayBuffer stuffs?
  199. # [07:47] <Sirisian> hear*
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  201. # [07:48] <zcorpan> "Errors that result in disproportionally poor performance" in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/introduction.html#conformance-requirements-for-authors still bugs me; i'm totally unconvinced that the example results in disproportionally poor performance
  202. # [07:48] <nessy> Sirisian: other than base64 encoding it? ;-)
  203. # [07:49] <Sirisian> I'm using a 7 bit format
  204. # [07:50] <Sirisian> well that's the idea. I hoped that after all this time the binary format was defined, but when I checked I noticed no change.
  205. # [07:50] <Sirisian> Kind of curious why since ArrayBuffer exists.
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  207. # [07:52] <hsivonen> zcorpan: that's not a great example
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  209. # [07:57] <Sirisian> nessy, know if anyone has brought that up to Hixie yet?
  210. # [07:57] <Sirisian> I know he made a note in the spec about it
  211. # [07:57] <nessy> I'm sure it's on the roadmap, but maybe not in focus right now
  212. # [07:58] <zcorpan> hsivonen: can you think of a better example?
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  214. # [07:59] <hsivonen> zcorpan: anything that reconstructs the active formatting elements a few times
  215. # [08:03] <zcorpan> <p><a><b><i><s><p>x<p>x<p>x
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  217. # [08:06] <zcorpan> or maybe <p><a><b><i><s></p><p>x</p><p>x</p><p>x</p> to not make authors think that omitting </p> is what results in bad perf
  218. # [08:07] <hsivonen> I'm impressed that the W3C processes allowed the "Beware" note on http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/
  219. # [08:08] <heycam> that yellow dotted border is... unpleasant
  220. # [08:10] <zcorpan> the styling gives the expectation that the text is something like "FIRE!!!! GET OUT OF THE BUILDING!"
  221. # [08:11] <hsivonen> validator.nu is going to undergo a couple on distribution upgrades. expect downtime
  222. # [08:11] <hsivonen> zcorpan: isn't that the right expectation for an API that is backed by the implementation details on a particular piece of software that isn't designed with the Web platform stability in mind?
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  224. # [08:15] <zcorpan> only if half of the relevant vendors refuse to implement it :)
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  230. # [08:30] <hsivonen> oh. awesome. validator.nu broke itself during the distribution upgrade
  231. # [08:31] <hsivonen> I pointed the DNS for validator.nu to the VM that's serving html5.validator.nu
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  235. # [08:45] <slartsa> I've never committed a dist upgrade on a server without something to back up with in case of emergency
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  240. # [08:57] <hsivonen> slartsa: well, I have two VMs that can supply the validator services for either html5.validator.nu, validator.nu or both, but I don't have bugzilla.validator.nu and about.validator.nu replicated to two VMs
  241. # [08:57] <hsivonen> I do have a tarball with backups, though
  242. # [08:58] <hsivonen> It will take a while to figure out how to restore bugzilla.validator.nu and about.validator.nu
  243. # [08:58] <hsivonen> the basic problem is that I don't employ a sysadmin myself and I'm myself a software developer and not a sysadmin
  244. # [09:00] <slartsa> augh, hope you'll sort things out
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  250. # [09:04] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: anyway, I believe html5.validator.nu has been redeployed, but it's currently CSS-naked
  251. # [09:04] <MikeSmith> ok
  252. # [09:04] <MikeSmith> thanks
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  270. # [09:45] <hsivonen> my hosting provider told me they've heard from other customers that Ubuntu upgrades are broken
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  272. # [09:46] <hsivonen> I expect to migrate to a fresh Lucid image today
  273. # [09:46] <hsivonen> (at this point, one probably should dump Ubuntu and move to CentOS, but I don't want to deal with multiple distros)
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  280. # [10:02] <asmodai> cute http://www.20thingsilearned.com/
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  284. # [10:05] <hsivonen> I was too lazy to view source. what do they use to implement the page turn graphics?
  285. # [10:16] <nessy> hsivonen: CSS transitions - nicely done actually
  286. # [10:16] <hsivonen> nessy: interesting. I didn't know you could do that with CSS transitions
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  291. # [10:21] <paul_irish> fairly sure its a pretty heavy use of canvas for the page turn.
  292. # [10:24] * hsivonen wonders if the message of 20 things is that the Chrome Team views Web users as children, since the book is in a children's book format
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  295. # [10:27] <annevk> "Tweets While High is now following you on Twitter!"
  296. # [10:28] * hsivonen turned new follower notifications off long ago
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  315. # [11:10] <Rik`> nessy: I also think it is canvas for the page turn
  316. # [11:11] <Rik`> hsivonen: the message of 20things is "we're teaching you the web while doing nasty browser sniffing"
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  324. # [11:23] <jgraham> Google do love their browser sniffing
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  337. # [11:43] <Rik`> I'm wondering if Google has heard of this thing called Modernizr
  338. # [11:44] <Peter`> its creator works for Google, so I'm pretty sure they do
  339. # [11:45] <Rik`> Peter`: that was ironic :)
  340. # [11:46] <Peter`> that'd make sense :p I shouldn't randomly switch to IRC while working
  341. # [11:59] <zcorpan> http://www.whatbrowser.org/ doesn't know about Minefield
  342. # [12:02] <zcorpan> also nice: "Try a new browser for your Mac: ... Internet Explorer"
  343. # [12:02] <jgraham> Or Opera 11
  344. # [12:02] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@ip-81-11-180-137.dsl.scarlet.be)
  345. # [12:03] <jgraham> and yeah, it suggests I download IE on Linux
  346. # [12:03] <jgraham> (what is the point of this site?)
  347. # [12:03] <annevk> IE on Linux is great
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  349. # [12:04] <zcorpan> hmm, now when i reload the page, the IE link is gone
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  351. # [12:12] <Rik`> jgraham: provide information to Chrome marketing about how people choose a new browser
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  353. # [12:18] <zcorpan> reading about browser cookies makes me need to eat a real cookie
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  355. # [12:23] * Disconnected
  356. # [12:24] * Attempting to rejoin channel #whatwg
  357. # [12:24] * Rejoined channel #whatwg
  358. # [12:24] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  359. # [12:24] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 22:03:06
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  364. # [12:42] <hsivonen> whatbrowser.org can't recognize Opera Mini or Opera Mobile
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  373. # [13:28] * jgraham wishes javascript looked more like CoffeeScript without an intermediate compilation step
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  388. # [14:45] <annevk> wait, so now using a tracker on someone's personal domain is considered acceptable?
  389. # [14:45] <annevk> (re IANA email)
  390. # [14:45] <annevk> funny how that works
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  392. # [14:52] <hsivonen> annevk: which email? is this the case where the registry is at the IANA but the front end is on mnot's domain?
  393. # [14:53] <hsivonen> s/the front/a front/
  394. # [14:53] <annevk> and the tracker
  395. # [14:53] <annevk> with issues and "reserved" items
  396. # [14:53] <annevk> not that it any way solves the single overview of all values potentially in use case discussed at TPAC
  397. # [14:53] <annevk> but Julian is still confused apparently
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  403. # [15:21] <annevk> http://maplight.org/us-congress/bill/111-s-3804/874681/total-contributions o_O
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  429. # [16:42] <hsivonen> so the previous host of all validator.nu stuff except html5.validator.nu is taking a long time to set up a new VM with the data of the old VM
  430. # [16:42] <hsivonen> in the mean time, I created a throw-away VM elsewhere and restored about.validator.nu onto it
  431. # [16:43] <hsivonen> so html5.validator.nu operation should return to normal (with styles and scripts) once DNS updates propagate
  432. # [16:45] <hsivonen> apparently, the right way to do things is to have some scripts for rsyncing a clone of the server to another VM. maybe I should have that
  433. # [16:46] <hsivonen> so one could create a new VM, rsync to it and throw the old VM away
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  436. # [16:54] <hsivonen> also, I learned that it's slow to dig a few (<< 20 GB) out of the hosting provider's backup system
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  469. # [17:53] <smaug____> annevk: what do you think about moving .classList to Web DOM Core?
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  475. # [18:00] <annevk> smaug____, we had a plan to move classList, className, and id to DOM Core
  476. # [18:00] <annevk> smaug____, as well as getElementsByClassName
  477. # [18:00] <smaug____> ok, good
  478. # [18:00] <smaug____> hmm
  479. # [18:00] <smaug____> "had"?
  480. # [18:01] <annevk> smaug____, sorry, have
  481. # [18:01] <smaug____> good :)
  482. # [18:01] <annevk> smaug____, :)
  483. # [18:01] * annevk will be back Monday evening
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  516. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> Dammit, Firefox is broken on my system now. Wtf. From a fresh boot, I try to open it and immediately get the "Firefox is already running" message.
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  519. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> This bothers me because making gradient diagrams is way easier in FF, since they actually implement the syntax.
  520. # [18:51] <Ms2ger> $ killall firefox-bin
  521. # [18:51] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-8-253.dynamic.qsc.de)
  522. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> "firefox-bin: no process found"
  523. # [18:51] <AryehGregor> Do not try that if you're running Firefox on Solaris. :)
  524. # [18:52] <AryehGregor> $ ps aux | grep firefox
  525. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> I'm assuming Tab is sane
  526. # [18:52] <AryehGregor> Be careful what you assume.
  527. # [18:52] <AryehGregor> Especially in this channel.
  528. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> Well, sane enough not to use solaris
  529. # [18:52] <AryehGregor> I mean, maybe he was just heeding the topic.
  530. # [18:52] <TabAtkins> I have no idea what the implications of anything on Solaris are, as I've never run it.
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  532. # [18:53] <AryehGregor> "killall" on Solaris means "kill all processes".
  533. # [18:53] <AryehGregor> On Linux it means "kill all processes with the given name".
  534. # [18:53] <AryehGregor> Hilarity ensues.
  535. # [18:53] <TabAtkins> AryehGregor: 107020 4729 0.0 0.0 6468 892 pts/3 S+ 09:50 0:00 grep firefox
  536. # [18:53] <TabAtkins> So... nothing.
  537. # [18:53] * AryehGregor wouldn't know this stuff, but the Wikimedia toolserver runs almost all Solaris because River Tarnell likes Solaris, and I'm a toolserver root
  538. # [18:53] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  539. # [18:54] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins, so it must be checking for a lock file or something, right? Try "strace firefox 2>&1 | grep 'open('" and see what files it's trying to open.
  540. # [18:54] <AryehGregor> (Or you could, like, ask one of the several Mozilla developers here instead of listening to me, but then I'd have nothing to say)
  541. # [18:55] * Joins: aroben (~aroben@unaffiliated/aroben)
  542. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> The only thing that seems useful is the very last call, where it does 'open("/usr/lib/firefox-3.6.12/firefox", O_RDONLY) = 3
  543. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> Surely the lock file (or whatever) is per-user, so /usr/lib seems unlikely.
  544. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> Also, what kind of weird distro are you using that puts stuff in /usr/lib/firefox-3.6.12?
  545. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> Goobuntu default.
  546. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> Oh, looks like Ubuntu does that too.
  547. # [18:57] <AryehGregor> I wonder why it's not just /usr/lib/firefox/.
  548. # [18:57] <AryehGregor> Anyway, I'm using the Firefox 4 beta instead. It's much nicer, maybe you should just switch to that.
  549. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> I should.
  550. # [18:57] <AryehGregor> (although maybe you'll get the same error)
  551. # [18:57] * TabAtkins goes to do that.
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  555. # [18:59] <TabAtkins> Dammit, same problem.
  556. # [18:59] <romeo_> rm ~/.mozilla/firefox/********.Default/lock or something like that
  557. # [18:59] <AryehGregor> It's got to be something in your profile.
  558. # [18:59] <AryehGregor> Why doesn't Firefox check whether anything else actually has the lock file open, and ignore it if not? Or something like that?
  559. # [19:00] <AryehGregor> Silly Firefox.
  560. # [19:00] <AryehGregor> (presumably it does and this is something more subtle)
  561. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> romeo_: Killed the lock, tried again, no go.
  562. # [19:00] <romeo_> I haven't had lock file problems for years. Used to be a common issue with netscape
  563. # [19:00] <AryehGregor> Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
  564. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> For real.
  565. # [19:01] * TabAtkins FIRES ZE MISSILES.
  566. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> Ah, hrm. An attempt to rm -rf the .mozilla folder is dying with two files that can't be removed because "Device or resource busy".
  567. # [19:03] <AryehGregor> . . .
  568. # [19:03] <AryehGregor> What does that even mean on Unix?
  569. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> I don't know.
  570. # [19:03] <AryehGregor> Also, you could have just moved it to .mozilla-old.
  571. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> Bah.
  572. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> Too late now!
  573. # [19:04] <Philip`> You probably need "strace -f", since firefox is just a wrapper script
  574. # [19:04] <AryehGregor> Interesting observation.
  575. # [19:04] <charlvn> i think the binary is called firefox-bin
  576. # [19:05] <AryehGregor> Well, I knew that, but I didn't know how strace worked.
  577. # [19:05] <AryehGregor> I just blindly run it on random commands without actually understanding what I'm doing.
  578. # [19:05] <AryehGregor> It's fun!
  579. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> Um. Firefox works now?
  580. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> The beta, at least.
  581. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> ...huh
  582. # [19:05] <AryehGregor> (like, I have no idea if grepping for "open" made any sense here, maybe it would be getting file descriptors through some other syscall, I dunno)
  583. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> Anyway, I apparently killed *something* useful, because I'm no longer being blocked. Yay!
  584. # [19:07] <Philip`> lsof is useful if you want to see what's got a particular file open/locked/etc
  585. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> No clue where this thing is trying to store my profile now, though.
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  589. # [19:08] <AryehGregor> It didn't recreate the directory?
  590. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> Oh, there it is got it.
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  595. # [19:13] <TabAtkins> Thanks, everyone. High fives all around.
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  597. # [19:14] <AryehGregor> Thanks for helping you decide to fix a Firefox problem by just deleting your .mozilla directory since none of us had any idea what was causing the problem, and none of us actually directly suggested the solution of deleting the directory anyway?
  598. # [19:15] <AryehGregor> Well, you're welcome, then.
  599. # [19:15] <TabAtkins> Dude, you said "nuke it from orbit". I don't know how to interpret that other than "rm -rf the fucker".
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  602. # [19:17] <AryehGregor> Well, yeah, I guess so.
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  604. # [19:17] <AryehGregor> I wasn't really serious, though.
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  607. # [19:19] <TabAtkins> Ah well, I was certain I could repair the damage if I did something wrong, so I rolled with it.
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  616. # [19:27] <charlvn> you know you're speaking to geeks when they do a full post mortem of getting firefox to work again :P
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  628. # [19:51] <TabAtkins> Ah, abusing gradients to make diagonal lines for my diagram is fun.
  629. # [19:51] <TabAtkins> Screw SVG. ^_^
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  631. # [19:52] <shepazu> TabAtkins: same to you and more of it :)
  632. # [19:52] <TabAtkins> It's SVG's fault for being an XML language.
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  635. # [19:56] <TabAtkins> shepazu: Do you have "SVG" in your nicknames file or something?
  636. # [19:57] <shepazu> TabAtkins: colloquy lets you set up alert rules
  637. # [19:58] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that's what I was wondering. You seem to show up magically when SVG is mentioned.
  638. # [19:58] <Ms2ger> "We are about to start implementing stream.record() and StreamRecorder."
  639. # [19:58] <shepazu> did someone mention SVG?
  640. # [19:58] <Ms2ger> Fun
  641. # [19:59] <TabAtkins> shepazu: I did?
  642. # [20:00] <shepazu> ah, that explains it :P
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  665. # [21:22] <Ms2ger> (FTR, yes, I'm male)
  666. # [21:25] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: ?_?
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  669. # [21:42] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: So we don't get to call you "it" anymore? Lame.
  670. # [21:43] <Ms2ger> :(
  671. # [21:45] <Dashiva> Note that he didn't specify he was human
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  700. # [22:48] <Sirisian> Hixie, did you see my question yesterday?
  701. # [22:53] <Hixie> what was it?
  702. # [22:53] <Sirisian> I was wondering if you had found a nice solution for websocket binary data like using ArrayBuffer or something? I've been waiting for it.
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  704. # [22:53] <Hixie> oh dunno, i don't really do websockets anymroe
  705. # [22:54] <Sirisian> oh!
  706. # [22:54] <Sirisian> Do you know who does?
  707. # [22:54] <Hixie> ian fette is the editor of the protocol spec
  708. # [22:54] <Hixie> once they've figured out what the protocol should be i'll update the api accordingly
  709. # [22:54] <Sirisian> Is he on IRC much?
  710. # [22:55] <Hixie> he might be in #chromium
  711. # [22:55] <Hixie> dunno
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  717. # [22:59] <TabAtkins> He's not at his desk right now, so he may not be available today.
  718. # [22:59] <Hixie> basically from the week before thanksgiving until the second week of january, silicon valley goes on vacation
  719. # [22:59] <Hixie> so... yeah
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  722. # [23:04] <othermaciej> the work on the protocol spec has not been making good progress lately
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  725. # [23:10] <Okee> This channel post private information to the internet, including the source of the ISP connection. How do we get this info removed?
  726. # [23:10] <aho> huh?
  727. # [23:11] <Hixie> there is no way to have it removed
  728. # [23:11] <aho> i mean... this is IRC, right? :>
  729. # [23:14] <heycam> Okee, http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#cloaks if you don't want people to know where you're connecting from
  730. # [23:14] <charlvn> Okee: are you referring to Krijn's logs?
  731. # [23:14] <heycam> (that's specific to the Freenode network though, not just this channel)
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  735. # [23:23] * aroben is now known as aroben|afk
  736. # [23:24] <Sirisian> TabAtkins, interesting. I'll come back in a few weeks then.
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  743. # [23:37] * Okee is now known as Bugaroo
  744. # [23:37] <Bugaroo> Your link for cloaks is no good.
  745. # [23:38] <Bugaroo> The link says to ask ops to turn it on for us.
  746. # [23:39] <Bugaroo> The links says to just ask a network staffer to turn it on for us. So who is the network staffer?
  747. # [23:39] <Hixie> why would we want to turn it on?
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  752. # [23:43] <Bugaroo> why not?
  753. # [23:43] <Hixie> because people tend to be more responsible when they're not anonymous
  754. # [23:43] <Bugaroo> People don't want their ISP broadcast in Google Search engine. I think this is a reasonable thing to ask for.
  755. # [23:44] <TabAtkins> Why not? IPs are public information.
  756. # [23:44] * Joins: ifette (~kvirc@nat/google/x-eziwgpznojbrrkro)
  757. # [23:44] <Bugaroo> Tell that to all of the people who are victims of identity theft and hacked online bank account. Or worse yet, people contacted by government regulators.
  758. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> The former has nothing to do with IP addresses. The second does, but that's why you protect *yourself* with an anonymizing service, since otherwise everyone in the chain knows who you are.
  759. # [23:45] <Hixie> i don't understand the relationship between one's ISP being logged and the above situations.
  760. # [23:45] <Bugaroo> It depends. The manner that you are broadcasting information is not appropriate. The fact that you are this great guru, all ominipotent, who knows what is good for people, sounds a bit egocentric.
  761. # [23:45] <Hixie> o_O
  762. # [23:46] <Bugaroo> I want my credentials removed from Google. I haven't given you permissin to put them on there, and your privacy disclosure was a bit lacking as to the extent of your policies.
  763. # [23:46] <Hixie> credentials?
  764. # [23:46] <TabAtkins> Um, no. The fact is that I actually understand the security implications of the matter, and realize that cloaking your IP solely at the endpoint is a useless gesture.
  765. # [23:47] <Hixie> i don't understand. if you think "government regulators" are searching google to get your IP from IRC logs, what makes you think they might not also be running the Freenode IRC servers in the first place?
  766. # [23:47] <TabAtkins> If you want anonymity, that's your responsibility. It has to be done at the earlist possible point in the chain, or else the entire thing is futile.
  767. # [23:47] <Bugaroo> This is what I mean about the condescending nature of this channel.
  768. # [23:48] <Bugaroo> There was no disclosure in this channel that your ISP is going to be publicly uploaded to Google's index.
  769. # [23:49] * Bugaroo is now known as privacy
  770. # [23:49] * privacy is now known as privacyviolation
  771. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> That's because *the entire internet, and every router between you and freenode* notes and possibly records and broadcasts your IP address.
  772. # [23:49] * privacyviolation is now known as privacy_violated
  773. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> Your IP address is publicly-available information, with no expectation of privacy.
  774. # [23:50] <Hixie> actually the fact that the channel is logged is listed in the channel topic, as per the Freenode policies, which you agreed to when you read the /motd message when you connected
  775. # [23:50] <Hixie> so you _were_ notified.
  776. # [23:50] <privacy_violated> Your decision to broadcast information from this channel is not support by many people. Your attitude is a bit conceited and fails to take into account the needs of others who use this channel.
  777. # [23:50] <TabAtkins> Sigh. /mute
  778. # [23:51] <Hixie> you misunderstand the nature of security and privacy on the internet. It is true that we are not very good about teaching security and privacy fundamentals on this channel, but that's not really what this channel is about.
  779. # [23:51] <privacy_violated> I am plan on filing a formal complaint with Freenode administrators. For reasons unknown, you are not taking this matter seriously.
  780. # [23:52] * privacy_violated is now known as PRIVACY-VIOLATED
  781. # [23:52] <Craig`> alright guys, where would you recommend me starting for canvas game devZ
  782. # [23:53] <Hixie> pv: ok, please let me know how that goes
  783. # [23:53] <Hixie> Craig`: what's your experience with programming so far?
  784. # [23:55] <Craig`> id class myself as decent, ive been learning js lately, know the syntax etc just i havent really had a project as such
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  786. # [23:56] * gsnedders wonders what to do as free programming project for uni (which must be in Python…)
  787. # [23:56] * gsnedders wants to do something siny
  788. # [23:56] <gsnedders> *shiny
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  791. # [23:57] <Philip`> gsnedders: A raytracer with chrome spheres?
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  793. # [23:58] <Hixie> gsnedders: make anolis way faster? :-)
  794. # [23:58] <Craig`> Hixie, so basically i have programming experience just none whatsoever in game dev
  795. # [23:59] <Hixie> gsnedders: or make it do multispec cross-references, multipage splitting, and index generation :-)
  796. # [23:59] <Hixie> Craig`: ah, hm
  797. # [23:59] <Hixie> Craig`: i dunno then, i'm in pretty much the same boat :-)
  798. # [23:59] <charlvn> gsnedders: if you want to do something with the web and a python server, tornado is awesome for websockets
  799. # Session Close: Sat Nov 20 00:00:00 2010

The end :)