/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2010-12-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Dec 06 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  24. # [01:00] <MikeSmith> Peter`: It's definitely a problem -- I can reproduce it at validator.nu -- but I just can't reproduce it in my environment
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  154. # [09:56] <Peter`> That's one I'd like to see too, MikeSmith :)
  155. # [09:57] <Peter`> context menus would actually be really useful for Web Inspector too
  156. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> yeah
  157. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> Peter`: your tweet about the details element reminded me that I've been meaning to open a bug for contextmenu
  158. # [09:59] <Peter`> Things are moving quickly
  159. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> yeah
  160. # [09:59] <Peter`> I might be able to get support for @hidden in WebKit today, using othermaciej's patch
  161. # [09:59] <MikeSmith> that'd certainly be cool
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  163. # [10:01] <MikeSmith> Peter`: it passes the tests now?
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  165. # [10:02] <Peter`> Yes, The style attribute at an editing test wasn't closed, causing "overflow: hidden" to be interpreted as two attributes, which screwed up the patch
  166. # [10:03] <Peter`> which was the regression that caused it to be rolled out
  167. # [10:03] <MikeSmith> ok
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  207. # [11:53] <annevk> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10692 o_O
  208. # [11:53] <annevk> the inability to understand the issue runs deep it seems
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  242. # [14:20] <karlcow> annevk: Manu closed it, it seems.
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  244. # [14:21] <annevk> karlcow, yeah, I meant the comment with which he closed it
  245. # [14:21] <karlcow> ah ok :)
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  255. # [14:33] <MrWax> concrete, which HTML5 apis are there? I am making a presentation about HTML5 and I think i practically listed them all, but to be sure, is there some clear overview of which we can distinct?
  256. # [14:34] <annevk> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/HTML5_Presentations
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  262. # [14:48] <zcorpan> i wonder how much time vlad alexander has spent bashing html5 and how it breaks xstandard instead of just implementing it in xstandard
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  267. # [15:03] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/12/high_performance_web_socket_se.html wonder if he has the code in a public repo
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  289. # [16:10] <MrWax> annevk: thanks, but they get into the language itself, the markup/tag/syntax renewals etc
  290. # [16:10] <MrWax> not about the JS APIS that come along with HTML5
  291. # [16:14] <annevk> not all of them do, and most of the interesting new APIs are no longer part of HTML5
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  293. # [16:17] <MrWax> you mean like geolocation etc?
  294. # [16:18] <jgraham> geolocation was never really part of HTML5
  295. # [16:18] <MrWax> ok
  296. # [16:18] <MrWax> I'm just trying to find a list of APIs that can be considered belonging to HTML5 (now)
  297. # [16:18] <annevk> just go through the spec index
  298. # [16:19] <annevk> i.e. through http://whatwg.org/html
  299. # [16:19] <jgraham> If you want the loose definition of HTML5 look at http://whatwg.org/C
  300. # [16:20] <MrWax> ok thanks i will read it and use it
  301. # [16:22] <zcorpan> jgraham: that's the "loose" definition? hahahaha
  302. # [16:24] <annevk> if you have an implicit section and you use <article> next, is it nested in the implicit section?
  303. # [16:24] <zcorpan> no (iirc)
  304. # [16:25] <annevk> too bad
  305. # [16:25] <zcorpan> it becomes a subsection of the nearest explicit section
  306. # [16:25] <jgraham> Well no, if you want the "loose" definition, you should add in http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work.en.html http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus#API_Specifications http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-websocket-handshake-01 and probably the latest version of silverlight too ("it's not flash!")
  307. # [16:27] <MrWax> Will WebSQL as part of localstorage be def not implemented?
  308. # [16:28] <jgraham> Not by anyone who hasn't already implemented it
  309. # [16:29] <jgraham> For suitable definitions pf "def"
  310. # [16:29] <MrWax> i mean in the html5 standard
  311. # [16:31] <jgraham> Oh well, no, unless the previous "def" is less definite than it seems
  312. # [16:31] <jgraham> No point standardising something that won't be standard
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  315. # [16:44] <annevk> zcorpan, so you would say that e.g. on http://annevankesteren.nl/2005/12/links I better start using <article>?
  316. # [16:45] <annevk> bloats markup a little :/
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  318. # [16:55] <zcorpan> annevk: what's the question?
  319. # [16:55] <annevk> how I could improve the markup
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  321. # [16:59] <zcorpan> annevk: yeah i guess you could throw in an <article> there (and one <article> per comment if you want to do what the spec suggests)
  322. # [16:59] <zcorpan> annevk: and always use pubdate=""
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  327. # [17:08] <zcorpan> here's one for all the URL regexpers: valid: http://foo_bar.example.org/ invalid: http://foo_bar.org/
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  329. # [17:11] <annevk> zcorpan, isn't _ always invalid technically?
  330. # [17:12] <annevk> zcorpan, also, that would require taking in account http://publicsuffix.org/ ...
  331. # [17:12] <annevk> zcorpan, at which point regexps will lose
  332. # [17:12] * annevk still thinking about whether or not to use <article> and all
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  335. # [17:21] <zcorpan> annevk: i end up getting confused when trying to find out whether _ is valid or not
  336. # [17:21] <zcorpan> annevk: the IRI RFC seems to allow it at least
  337. # [17:23] <annevk> you should look at the DNS RFC
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  339. # [17:23] <annevk> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1035
  340. # [17:24] <annevk> according to that RFC _ should not work
  341. # [17:25] <annevk> however, I remember reading somewhere that it can indeed be used if you violate the RFC as software generally does not care
  342. # [17:27] <zcorpan> that only seems to allow a-zA-Z0-9-
  343. # [17:27] <annevk> hmm, http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4343 claims octets within the labels can be anything in the 8bit range
  344. # [17:27] <annevk> that seems wrong
  345. # [17:29] <annevk> zcorpan, right, IDNs are converted to that format using Punycode
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  347. # [17:35] <zcorpan> annevk: oh right
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  379. # [18:36] <karlcow> I think in the past I had seen an article of someone testing Link: in HTTP headers across browsers for CSS
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  381. # [18:38] <karlcow> hmm test page from Anne http://annevankesteren.nl/test/html-element/style-header.php
  382. # [18:38] <karlcow> http://esw.w3.org/LinkHeader
  383. # [18:39] <karlcow> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988
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  385. # [18:39] <karlcow> grand Pa of Link: http://www.w3.org/Protocols/9707-link-header.html
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  387. # [18:39] <karlcow> http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2009/01/22/using-http-headers-to-serve-styles/
  388. # [18:40] <karlcow> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102907
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  441. # [20:13] <Workshiva> I have altered the spec. Pray I do not alter it further.
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  491. # [21:53] <zcorpan> Workshiva: what spec?
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  494. # [21:59] <zcorpan> the example document http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-xhtml-author-guide/html-xhtml-authoring-guide.html#example-document is not well-formed (nor valid as text/html)
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  498. # [22:02] <Ms2ger> And doesn't have tbodies
  499. # [22:03] <Ms2ger> Also, links to w3schools
  500. # [22:03] * Ms2ger reminds himself not to bother
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  502. # [22:04] <annevk> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/73139/trunk/WebCore/html/ColorInputType.cpp -- right, so all color names that are 7 characters long will still be incorrectly accepted?
  503. # [22:04] <annevk> e.g. fuchsia
  504. # [22:04] <Peter-> No, the first character has to be #
  505. # [22:04] <Peter-> (see line 45)
  506. # [22:05] <annevk> aah
  507. # [22:05] <Peter-> #fuchsi would be possible
  508. # [22:05] <annevk> good point
  509. # [22:05] <annevk> that makes it a little trickier :)
  510. # [22:05] <Peter-> but the Color constructor wouldn't be happy and wouldn't validate :)
  511. # [22:08] <zcorpan> ""Polyglot Markup: HTML-Compatible XHTML Documents" is a normative specification" <http://www.w3.org/mid/E1PPi99-0005ql-I6@jessica.w3.org>
  512. # [22:08] <AryehGregor> But it will still allow #AAAAAA, although that's not valid for <input type=color>. Unless it correctly lowercases it for the submitted value.
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  522. # [22:24] <annevk> Peter-, btw, form elements don't have a special constructor
  523. # [22:24] <annevk> Peter-, I think what is mentioned in that bug is not something exposed to the platform
  524. # [22:24] <Dashiva> zcorpan: No spec, I just felt like saying it
  525. # [22:24] <annevk> Peter-, but an implementation detail
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  527. # [22:25] <Dashiva> It seems to be my "I have altered the X" day today
  528. # [22:25] <Peter-> annevk, I'll take a look, thanks
  529. # [22:25] <zcorpan> Dashiva: bummer
  530. # [22:26] <Dashiva> It would be a good line for Hyatt to have used if he ever edited anything :)
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  532. # [22:27] <heycam> interesting that loading an example with script in Hixie's Live DOM Viewer with Safari makes it say "Refused to execute a JavaScript script. Source code of script found within request."
  533. # [22:28] <heycam> s/interesting/annoying in this instance/
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  536. # [22:29] <Peter-> annevk, I've removed the sentence
  537. # [22:29] <Philip`> heycam: IE's XSS filter triggers the same problem
  538. # [22:30] <heycam> Philip`, seems like a good idea in general
  539. # [22:30] <zcorpan> breaking live dom viewer is not a good idea in general :)
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  541. # [22:31] * Ms2ger wishes the IE guys knew that
  542. # [22:33] <Philip`> Hixie could easily fix it by adding some header to disable IE's XSS filter, but I think he said he didn't want to
  543. # [22:33] <annevk> zcorpan, about 5 errors so far, mostly escaping errors
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  545. # [22:34] <annevk> pretty bad
  546. # [22:34] <annevk> (re twitter)
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  548. # [22:36] <zcorpan> annevk: how many of those do you count for escaping errors?
  549. # [22:37] <annevk> actually, are there other errors?
  550. # [22:37] <zcorpan> yes
  551. # [22:37] <annevk> there's a lot of stuff like & in links, literal &s, literal <p>, literal <p />
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  554. # [22:40] <annevk> empty <p> element usage and various examples only make sense looking at the source code
  555. # [22:40] <annevk> what else is there?
  556. # [22:40] <zcorpan> no <tbody> in the second table
  557. # [22:41] <annevk> and the first does not use <colgroup>
  558. # [22:41] <zcorpan> a link pointing to w3schools
  559. # [22:41] <annevk> ooh, only required if there's a <col> element
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  561. # [22:42] <zcorpan> the live page is different from the inline example (doesn't have the escaping problems and uses <code> elements)
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  564. # [22:44] <zcorpan> claims identical trees (with the exception of the xmlns attribute on the root element) when processed as HTML and when processed as XML, but it doesn't have that (if we assume the escaping and tbody problems are fixed, whitespace still results in different trees)
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  567. # [22:45] <zcorpan> an attribute value contains literal line breaks
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  570. # [22:49] <zcorpan> i guess that's about it
  571. # [22:49] <zcorpan> also, i love 6.5.2 Elements that Cannot Contain Special Characters
  572. # [22:49] <zcorpan> apparently <plaintext> is OK in polyglot markup
  573. # [22:50] <zcorpan> (but only if it doesn't contain <>&)
  574. # [22:51] <hober> I like how if you view source on SamplePage.html it's quite different than the source listed at #example-document
  575. # [22:52] <zcorpan> yeah
  576. # [22:53] <annevk> comments on markup welcome: http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/11/fear
  577. # [22:53] <annevk> (chose that page because it is rather short)
  578. # [22:54] <annevk> (not entirely sure still on the rel=up business)
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  580. # [22:55] <zcorpan> what changed?
  581. # [22:56] <annevk> since when?
  582. # [22:56] <annevk> :)
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  584. # [22:57] <zcorpan> oh, i thought you just changed something on that page and wanted feedback
  585. # [22:57] <hober> no <nav>?
  586. # [22:58] <annevk> well, I did just add usage of rel=up and rel="up up" and such
  587. # [22:58] <annevk> overall I changed various small aspects over the past seven days ago
  588. # [22:58] <zcorpan> ok
  589. # [22:58] <annevk> I don't quite get the distinction between rel=index and rel=archives
  590. # [22:59] <annevk> hober, I was not quite sure how that would fit in
  591. # [22:59] <zcorpan> did you change to "Less than a week ago." recently?
  592. # [23:00] <annevk> yes, but that is frontpage only
  593. # [23:00] <hober> s/<ul id="nav">/<nav><ul>/
  594. # [23:00] <annevk> hober, so adding an element? hmm
  595. # [23:00] <zcorpan> (no pun intended if you changed it less than a week ago :P )
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  597. # [23:01] <annevk> I have been thinking about putting that in the archived pages too, but I was not sure how exactly to fit it in nicely
  598. # [23:01] <annevk> also, so far it only gives non-meaningful phrases up to a little over a year
  599. # [23:02] <annevk> hober, I have been wondering about <nav> <a/> <a/> <a/> </nav> -- reducing the amount of elements
  600. # [23:02] <jgraham> http://books.google.com/googlebooks/error.html <-- the internet totally needs more twitter / moby dick crossover 404 pages
  601. # [23:03] <zcorpan> i think i like dates better, but maybe that's just me. not that i actually care...
  602. # [23:03] <annevk> yeah, I think I'll keep to dates on the archived pages
  603. # [23:04] <zcorpan> i meant on the front page
  604. # [23:04] <annevk> sure
  605. # [23:06] <annevk> Hixie, what is the difference between "index" and "archives" supposed to be?
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  608. # [23:09] <zcorpan> annevk: afaict archives is an index of *documents*, while index is an index of sections of one big document that has been split to several pages
  609. # [23:12] <annevk> zcorpan, the examples and description of index in HTML5 do not support that
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  611. # [23:13] <zcorpan> uh, you're right, i misread the description for index
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  613. # [23:14] <zcorpan> i guess the thing distinguishing them is 'hierarchical structure', which is pretty subtle
  614. # [23:15] <annevk> so in my case it would be index then
  615. # [23:16] <annevk> it's pretty hierarchical
  616. # [23:16] <zcorpan> and index can be used together with up
  617. # [23:16] <zcorpan> maybe they should be merged into one keyword
  618. # [23:17] <Hixie> annevk: dunno, file a bug. i think we should nuke them all anyway.
  619. # [23:17] <Hixie> they're not useful in practice
  620. # [23:17] <annevk> Hixie, also, do you see a problem with <nav> <a/> <a/> <a/> </nav> ?
  621. # [23:17] <annevk> yeah, I added them for matjas and to test HTML5 out
  622. # [23:18] <Hixie> you mean a <nav> that just contains one paragraph? not especially.
  623. # [23:18] <annevk> yeah, my navigation is really simple...
  624. # [23:18] <annevk> might be nice to have an example to that effect in the spec as well -- guess that would be another bug
  625. # [23:19] <matjas> I remember Hixie confirmed that <nav><a>Foo</a> | <a>Bar</a></nav> was okay like a year ago
  626. # [23:19] <Hixie> sure
  627. # [23:19] * Quits: gratz|home (~gratz@gratz.gotadsl.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving)
  628. # [23:19] <annevk> I don't want to use separators
  629. # [23:19] <Hixie> yeah seems fine to me
  630. # [23:19] <Hixie> so long as it works fine without css :-)
  631. # [23:20] <annevk> there will be a space
  632. # [23:20] <annevk> also, AT users don't really like funny characters inbetween it seems
  633. # [23:20] <annevk> s/it seems/I heard/
  634. # [23:20] <zcorpan> "so long as it works fine without css" - i think that's where it'll fall apart if we recommend it in the spec
  635. # [23:20] <Hixie> a11y users also find it annoying when links run into each other, from what i've heard (i.e. when two words next to each other are both links)
  636. # [23:20] <Hixie> but *shrug*
  637. # [23:21] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@nat/google/x-vagegfavrxegdxhy) (Quit: Leaving.)
  638. # [23:21] <annevk> oh
  639. # [23:22] <annevk> yes
  640. # [23:22] <annevk> style sheet is going to be easier
  641. # [23:22] <annevk> o_O
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  650. # [23:30] <annevk> fuck specifity
  651. # [23:30] <annevk> specificity even
  652. # [23:30] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:0:1b00:1191:226:4aff:fe14:aad6)
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  655. # [23:32] <oojacoboo> are there any plans to support variables and hierarchical ordering in stylesheets, like LESS CSS ?
  656. # [23:32] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@64.119.153.2) (Quit: boaz)
  657. # [23:32] <oojacoboo> http://lesscss.org/
  658. # [23:33] <oojacoboo> when writing complex application UI's stylesheets in their current format become very difficult to manage
  659. # [23:33] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@y079250.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  660. # [23:34] <oojacoboo> you end up including multiple classes in your html element attributes as a stop-gap solution, but that's just extra markup and makes the html side harder to manage
  661. # [23:34] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@pha75-2-81-57-187-57.fbx.proxad.net)
  662. # [23:34] <annevk> you want www-style@w3.org
  663. # [23:34] <oojacoboo> as more applications make their way to the web, this is going to be an increasing issue
  664. # [23:35] <oojacoboo> annevk: ?
  665. # [23:36] <oojacoboo> is that a mail group?
  666. # [23:36] <AryehGregor> Yes.
  667. # [23:36] <AryehGregor> This has been suggested a bunch of times before.
  668. # [23:36] <oojacoboo> those still exist :/
  669. # [23:36] <AryehGregor> No progress has been made AFAICT, dunno why.
  670. # [23:37] <AryehGregor> Yep, and so do IRC chats. :)
  671. # [23:37] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@89.204.153.100)
  672. # [23:37] <oojacoboo> at least this is remotely instant... has purpose
  673. # [23:37] <matjas> Erm, I'm currently tethering my 5 kbps Edge connection from my phone to my laptop. I’ve been trying out every Geolocation demo I can think of, and they all seem to fail, in every browser. Does tethering throw off geolocation for some reason?
  674. # [23:37] <AryehGregor> So does e-mail . . .
  675. # [23:38] <AryehGregor> matjas, if your laptop doesn't have a GPS device in it, then geolocation might not work at all.
  676. # [23:38] <AryehGregor> I don't know if browsers use other location info sources in that case.
  677. # [23:38] <oojacoboo> AryehGregor: w/e, no way I want all that email coming in
  678. # [23:38] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: IP -> Geo lookup
  679. # [23:39] <AryehGregor> Then that might fail randomly, yeah.
  680. # [23:39] <AryehGregor> Dunno how cell phones get their IP addresses.
  681. # [23:39] <annevk> because I changed from #nav to nav CSS specificity is screwing me over
  682. # [23:39] <matjas> AryehGregor: I should clarify, my laptop does have a GPS device in it, and I've used Geolocation before (and tested these exact demos); they worked fine.
  683. # [23:39] <zcorpan> i don't think you need to subscribe to send email to www-style
  684. # [23:39] <AryehGregor> matjas, no idea then. What browser?
  685. # [23:39] <annevk> and fixing this sucks
  686. # [23:39] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-jnztajexgbiiqgzj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  687. # [23:40] <annevk> guess I could :not(p) or some silly thing to hack around
  688. # [23:40] <matjas> AryehGregor: Well, I’ve tried every browser I have installed. Latest Chromium nightly, latest Chrome stable, latest Opera snapshot, latest Opera stable, latest Minefield nightly, latest Firefox stable… all failed
  689. # [23:40] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@nat/google/x-hvibkdwgpkhftqgi)
  690. # [23:40] <annevk> :any-link would be useful to have right now
  691. # [23:40] <AryehGregor> Interesting.
  692. # [23:40] <AryehGregor> What's your laptop's IP address?
  693. # [23:41] <gsnedders> Dunno what happens in the IPv6 case, FWIW
  694. # [23:41] <matjas> AryehGregor: You mean public IP right? 188.188.226.156
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  696. # [23:41] <matjas> Does that help at all? :)
  697. # [23:41] <AryehGregor> Some random geolocation site I pulled off Google gives no location info for that IP address.
  698. # [23:41] <AryehGregor> Er, wait.
  699. # [23:42] <AryehGregor> Hmm.
  700. # [23:42] <annevk> hmm not fixed
  701. # [23:42] <annevk> fail
  702. # [23:42] <AryehGregor> So maybe it's not using the GPS device for some reason, maybe it's using your IP address.
  703. # [23:42] * Joins: mamund_ (mamund@frost.nullshells.net)
  704. # [23:42] <AryehGregor> And it can't geolocate the cell phone IP address.
  705. # [23:43] * mamund_ is now known as mamund
  706. # [23:43] <matjas> [23:39:53] <JKarsrud_> matjas: Fails when tethering here too
  707. # [23:43] <AryehGregor> I wouldn't be surprised if IP-based geolookup typically fails when tethering.
  708. # [23:44] <AryehGregor> You'd expect it would use GPS info if you have a GPS device in the laptop, though.
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  710. # [23:44] <matjas> AryehGregor: Yeah exactly. Too much weirdness
  711. # [23:44] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: Depends on drivers, etc.
  712. # [23:44] <gsnedders> matjas: What OS?
  713. # [23:44] <matjas> gsnedders: OS X
  714. # [23:44] * Joins: Xano__ (~bart@524BF837.cm-4-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  715. # [23:44] <matjas> JKarsrud_ (who verified the problem in #html5) has a MacBook running OS X as well
  716. # [23:45] <matjas> gsnedders: So this is an OS issue?
  717. # [23:45] <jgraham> 101 signs that you spend too long thinking about standards #58: During a perfectly normal discussion about a phone implementing Near Field Communication, you keep wondering why people are talking about (Unicode) Normal Form C
  718. # [23:45] <gsnedders> matjas: No, but most OSes don't have any generic API to access GPS devices
  719. # [23:45] * Quits: Xano (~bart@524BF837.cm-4-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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  721. # [23:46] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@nat/google/x-cevoitwxddewtkhr)
  722. # [23:46] <AryehGregor> Oh, so looks like WebKit implemented marquee attributes after all.
  723. # [23:46] <AryehGregor> That answers that question.
  724. # [23:47] <gsnedders> matjas: So it's a matter of getting the geo data to the browser, which is ridiculously non-trivial
  725. # [23:47] * Joins: Jon_Neal (~Jonathan_@rrcs-76-79-114-214.west.biz.rr.com)
  726. # [23:47] <matjas> I don’t really get it… It works fine without tethering, why would it matter where the Internet connection is coming from?
  727. # [23:47] <AryehGregor> What's "most OSes" here?
  728. # [23:48] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: I can't remember
  729. # [23:48] <AryehGregor> matjas, because it's probably not using the GPS device at all. It's probably using your IP address.
  730. # [23:48] <gsnedders> Indeed.
  731. # [23:48] * Joins: homata (~homata@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  732. # [23:48] <AryehGregor> Which is different if you're tethering vs. using Wi-Fi.
  733. # [23:48] <gsnedders> There's a high probability that it's using IP lookup, or doing something like using the Google wifi database thing
  734. # [23:48] * jgraham assumes there are environments in which geolocation actually works and that he has just never been in one
  735. # [23:48] <matjas> AryehGregor: Yeah, but why is it using the IP address lookup instead of the built-in GPS stuff when tethering is used?
  736. # [23:48] <jgraham> I guess a mobile phone with GPS
  737. # [23:48] <AryehGregor> matjas, it's probably using the IP address lookup in both cases.
  738. # [23:48] <matjas> It uses the GPS chip just fine when I'm not tethering
  739. # [23:49] <gsnedders> matjas: Are you sure it uses the GPS chip?
  740. # [23:49] <AryehGregor> How do you know it's not doing geolocation on the IP address?
  741. # [23:49] <jgraham> That seems like a testable hypothesis
  742. # [23:49] <matjas> My mistake. I’m not sure at all, I just assumed MacBooks would use the built-in GPS chip
  743. # [23:49] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan_@rrcs-76-79-114-214.west.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  744. # [23:49] <jgraham> If you proxy your connection and the location changes
  745. # [23:50] <matjas> I’m 100% sure my model has a GPS-chip built-in
  746. # [23:50] * Quits: mdelaney (~mdelaney@2620:0:1b00:1191:d69a:20ff:febf:89a0) (Quit: mdelaney)
  747. # [23:50] * Joins: espadrine (~espadrine@eduroinsa724.insa-lyon.fr)
  748. # [23:50] * jgraham would guess that just using the IP address is more likely
  749. # [23:50] <jgraham> Or maybe one of those wifi database things if you are on wifi
  750. # [23:50] <matjas> jgraham: Interesting. I will try that out as soon as I can get hold of a better connection.
  751. # [23:51] <gsnedders> matjas: The latest MacBook doesn't seem to according to Apple's site, and OS X has no location API, so there'd need to be explicit support in the browser for the GPS chip if it does exist.
  752. # [23:51] <AryehGregor> Or just use some geolocation app that reveals your location in real time, and look at the granularity.
  753. # [23:51] <matjas> gsnedders: I stand corrected. Thanks for the info!
  754. # [23:51] <AryehGregor> If it's going off IP address, it won't change as you walk around, as long as you're on the same network.
  755. # [23:53] <jgraham> The way I tell that I am getting an IP address based location is that it thinks I am in friggin' Stockholm
  756. # [23:54] <annevk> hober, now using <nav>
  757. # [23:54] <annevk> I think I am up to 3 elements HTML5 newly introduced now
  758. # [23:55] <gsnedders> jgraham: You're in Stockholm at home? The office is in Borås, IIRC.
  759. # [23:55] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-wmdvpipkmgdijmdj)
  760. # [23:55] <jgraham> gsnedders: It thought that the office was in Stockholm too last time I tried
  761. # [23:56] <jgraham> Dunno why it changed
  762. # [23:56] <Hixie> any brits looking to be paid to give a talk on contemporary html progress?
  763. # [23:56] * jgraham assumes "brits living in Sweden" don't really count :)
  764. # [23:56] * Quits: gavin_ (~gavin@firefox/developer/gavin) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  765. # [23:56] <gsnedders> jgraham: When I last tried was the day we first got geolocation support :P
  766. # [23:56] <Hixie> jgraham: i already proposed you :-) (i pointed them to the wiki page)
  767. # [23:57] <Hixie> apparently swedes living in britain would be fine, but brits in sweden not so much
  768. # [23:57] <jgraham> Hixie: Oh. Heh :)
  769. # [23:57] <gsnedders> I agree with the statement up to the "to give a talk" part :)
  770. # [23:57] <annevk> Hixie, try brucel@opera.com
  771. # [23:58] <Hixie> he's in the uk?
  772. # [23:58] <Hixie> cool, didn't know
  773. # [23:58] <gsnedders> Yeah.
  774. # [23:58] <annevk> yeah
  775. # [23:58] <jgraham> Oh, that would have been a useful suggestion
  776. # [23:58] <gsnedders> I was going to suggest him, but annevk beat me
  777. # [23:58] <jgraham> Specifically he is in Birningham. But we haven't managed to disown it yet
  778. # [23:58] <gsnedders> Hixie: Any more detail about what sort of talk?
  779. # [23:58] <Hixie> um let's see
  780. # [23:58] <jgraham> *Birmingham
  781. # [23:58] * Hixie looks at e-mail closer
  782. # [23:59] * Quits: Xano (~bart@524BF837.cm-4-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  783. # [23:59] <jgraham> (note for the angry people reading this: I actually have nothing against Birmingham and probably wouldn't chose to let it drift off into the atlantic given the chance)
  784. # Session Close: Tue Dec 07 00:00:00 2010

The end :)