/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-01-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jan 08 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:00] <Ms2ger> http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2010/02/12/fixed-monospace-sizing/
  5. # [00:03] <annevk> but he's wrong
  6. # [00:04] <annevk> well, I think he's right in what happens, but there's no justification coming from "medium"
  7. # [00:05] <annevk> because as Hixie just said, the computed value is absolute
  8. # [00:05] <Hixie> 'medium' is absolute
  9. # [00:05] <annevk> oh really?
  10. # [00:06] <Hixie> however, while i could believe that browsers compare the font size to the 'medium' pref size, there's no direct evidence that they do that, only cirucmstancial
  11. # [00:06] <Hixie> i'd be interested in finding out what they actually do
  12. # [00:06] <annevk> CSS 2.1 says "Computed value: absolute length"
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  14. # [00:06] <annevk> medium is an absolute-size, but not a length
  15. # [00:06] <Hixie> i'd be even more interested in just having all the browsers default to 16px for both serif and monospace and not let anyone change it (outside of setting a default zoom)
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  66. # [02:25] <benschwarz> Whatup #WHATWG
  67. # [02:29] <charlvn> hi benschwarz
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  71. # [02:33] <paul_irish> benschwarz: you see my w3schools doc?
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  84. # [03:17] <benschwarz> paul_irish: I saw some mention of it on twitter
  85. # [03:17] <benschwarz> whats the score?
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  87. # [03:17] <paul_irish> http://goo.gl/a8Bke it's gotten pretty big. basically a few pages of criticism of w3schools http://goo.gl/a8Bke
  88. # [03:17] <paul_irish> whoops
  89. # [03:20] <benschwarz> paul_irish: It'd be important to push the whole thing through sites like smashing mag, and ajaxian
  90. # [03:20] <benschwarz> importantly, smashing mag, and other bullshit sites
  91. # [03:20] <paul_irish> i will!
  92. # [03:20] <paul_irish> w3fools will debut at the end of next week.
  93. # [03:20] <paul_irish> splash hard.
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  96. # [03:26] <Philip`> The current state of that document seems pretty incoherent and full of people overreacting
  97. # [03:29] <bga_> wow live edit
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  100. # [03:36] <benschwarz> Hixie: !Ping
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  102. # [03:37] <benschwarz> paul_irish: !ping
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  104. # [03:51] <benschwarz> Philip`: Is the spec_splitter.py your work?
  105. # [03:51] <benschwarz> I'd like to highlight this issue that I'm seeing for developers.whatwg.org - https://github.com/benschwarz/developers.whatwg.org/issues/issue/4
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  155. # [06:53] <MikeSmith> http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2011/01/firefox-mobile-and-window-console-support/
  156. # [06:53] <MikeSmith> "Desktop Firefox added native support for a subset of the window.console API"
  157. # [06:53] <MikeSmith> pretty cool
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  185. # [11:05] <MikeSmith> so Firefox Mobile actually provides access to an error console?
  186. # [11:05] <MikeSmith> http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2011/01/firefox-mobile-and-window-console-support/
  187. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> about newly added window.console support
  188. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> "Last night we turned on basic support in Firefox Mobile too. It’s basic in the sense that the window.console is merely forwarded to the Error Console."
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  205. # [12:32] <Philip`> benschwarz: It is
  206. # [12:33] <Philip`> benschwarz: I guess the original document structure isn't quite what it expects when it's extracting elements
  207. # [12:33] <Philip`> (It's not designed to be particularly general-purpose or robust, since usually it's easier just to tweak the source code when the document structure changes)
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  209. # [12:33] <annevk> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVmtsErHBbs - "the ayes have it"
  210. # [12:33] <annevk> American politics...
  211. # [12:34] <benschwarz> Philip`: so if I make some fixes, should I send them upstream?
  212. # [12:34] <benschwarz> Or should I expect these things to get fixed magically?
  213. # [12:35] <annevk> lol, only Leif could get my <dl> comparison so backwards
  214. # [12:36] <annevk> I have a copy of spec-splitter somewhere too btw
  215. # [12:36] <annevk> a modified one
  216. # [12:37] <annevk> to generate whatwg.org/C
  217. # [12:37] <annevk> benschwarz, would be nicer if developers.whatwg.org was based on whatwg.org/C I think
  218. # [12:40] <Philip`> benschwarz: If the fixes don't break the non-developer multipage version, I can commit the changes to html5.googlecode.com
  219. # [12:40] <Ms2ger> annevk, apparently non-HTML5 parts of complete.html don't have .impl
  220. # [12:41] <MikeSmith> yeah
  221. # [12:42] <MikeSmith> Hixie said they don't have the domintro stuff yet either
  222. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> And that
  223. # [12:45] <MikeSmith> so I implemented checking of event-handler attributes
  224. # [12:45] <MikeSmith> not checked in yet
  225. # [12:45] <MikeSmith> pending review
  226. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> but at http://www.w3.org/html/check for testing
  227. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> but which I mean this part of the spec:
  228. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/webappapis.html#event-handler-content-attributes
  229. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> "Event handler content attributes, when specified, must contain valid JavaScript code matching the FunctionBody production. [ECMA262]"
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  231. # [12:48] <Ms2ger> Nice
  232. # [12:49] <MikeSmith> one downside is that that if somebody drops a whole lot of javascript into the value of an event attribute, the error message is not going to be too helpful to that at pinpointing where the error is
  233. # [12:50] <MikeSmith> because it will not show the exact column number for the place in the attribute value where any actual syntax error is
  234. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> but I guess it's not really a best practice to put huge amounts of code into values of event-handler attributes to begin with
  235. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> nor maybe even to use event-handler attributes to begin with
  236. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> is there some benefit to using event-handler attributes rather than just adding listeners within the js code itself?
  237. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> cases where it's preferable/easier to do it that way for some reason?
  238. # [13:02] <Ms2ger> It's almost always easier, no?
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  241. # [13:07] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: I guess
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  243. # [13:08] <MikeSmith> though seems like it would not easier in terms of maintenance
  244. # [13:09] <Ms2ger> Yes, but since when have web authors cared about that
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  247. # [13:16] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah, true
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  282. # [17:19] <hsivonen> Does Opera have an @-rule for site-specific stuff in user style sheets
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  284. # [17:22] <bga_> opera has right click site preferenes view my style
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  286. # [17:25] <hsivonen> bga_: thanks
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  288. # [17:28] * hsivonen wonders how many people have used time to figure out how to make the xkcd title attribute render withou mouseover
  289. # [17:29] <hsivonen> (also, kinda sad that Firefox is less suitable for reading Web comics than Opera due to the lack of Fast Forward)
  290. # [17:32] <Ms2ger> You mean like on http://damowmow.com/portal/?
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  295. # [17:35] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: yeah, that's a solution to the problem if you read the Damowmow portal daily
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  316. # [18:51] <dglazkov> Hixie: yo
  317. # [18:51] <dglazkov> or annevk
  318. # [18:51] <dglazkov> have a brain puzzler for you
  319. # [18:51] <dglazkov> it's about orientation
  320. # [18:53] <dglazkov> in WebKit, we have this -webkit-appearance property, which basically allows reaching into OS-specific representations of UI elements
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  322. # [18:54] <dglazkov> for example, #foo { -webkit-appearance: slider-thumb-horizontal } will make <div id="foo"></div> render as the native OS slider thumb
  323. # [18:54] <dglazkov> (now I'll wait for you to ping back :)
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  340. # [19:29] <annevk> dglazkov, don't know too much about it
  341. # [19:29] <annevk> dglazkov, except that I would like to see it standardized
  342. # [19:30] <dglazkov> annevk: me too! :) There's an interesting orientation problem here. I think I'll write an email instead of irc.
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  344. # [19:30] <dglazkov> the problem today is that -webkit-appearance _dictates_ orientation
  345. # [19:30] <dglazkov> slider-thumb-horizontal will _always_ show horizontal thumb, and slider-thumb-vertical will _always_ show a vertical
  346. # [19:31] <dglazkov> which is wrong, because now I can't cascade orientation
  347. # [19:31] <dglazkov> but I should
  348. # [19:31] <dglazkov> be able
  349. # [19:31] <dglazkov> to
  350. # [19:31] <dglazkov> I will write email
  351. # [19:32] <annevk> cool
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  421. # [23:27] * Quits: cying (~cying@c-24-23-135-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: cying)
  422. # [23:29] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe41dc00-67.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  423. # [23:32] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  424. # [23:43] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  425. # [23:48] * Joins: mokush (~quassel@188.24.25.58)
  426. # [23:54] * Quits: foolip_ (~foolip@h182n6-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  427. # [23:59] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.224.118) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  428. # Session Close: Sun Jan 09 00:00:00 2011

The end :)