/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-01-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jan 10 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:09] <abarth> ok
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  9. # [00:10] <abarth> yeah, i don't understand the framing at all
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  11. # [00:18] <othermaciej> it seems like the framing changes took the total number of fields from 3 to 10
  12. # [00:19] <othermaciej> though at least 5 of those are reserved for future extensions
  13. # [00:19] <othermaciej> abarth: btw I'm not trying to troll you about OPTIONS, I just want Willy to put up or shut up if he has a real problem with it
  14. # [00:19] <othermaciej> it seems like a good idea to me
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  28. # [00:42] <Hixie> if neither abarth nor i can understand the protocol framing at first glance, it might be worth simplifying...
  29. # [00:44] <Hixie> but i'll let someone else take up that battle
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  32. # [00:49] <abarth> othermaciej: i didn't mean to change anything in the framing
  33. # [00:49] <abarth> othermaciej: it just used the text that ian sent me
  34. # [00:49] <othermaciej> abarth: I don't mean your change
  35. # [00:49] <othermaciej> I mean relative to the old (Hixie era) framing
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  114. # [08:06] * danbri_ is now known as danbri
  115. # [08:13] <MikeSmith> http://code.gregjopa.com/html5/audio/tabplayer/ is pretty cool
  116. # [08:13] <MikeSmith> http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/01/html5guitar/
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  118. # [08:15] <paul_irish> that's hot
  119. # [08:17] <MikeSmith> oh wow
  120. # [08:17] <MikeSmith> little keyboard thing in Google Translate
  121. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> where did that come from
  122. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> don't remember it being there til today
  123. # [08:18] <MikeSmith> maybe I just didn't notice
  124. # [08:18] * MikeSmith tries the Korean one
  125. # [08:20] <MikeSmith> no Japanese one yet
  126. # [08:20] <MikeSmith> but then there's always http://inputking.com/
  127. # [08:21] <MikeSmith> which works just the same way a native platform/OS Japanese IME works
  128. # [08:27] * MikeSmith finds http://code.google.com/apis/language/virtualkeyboard/overview.html
  129. # [08:27] <MikeSmith> http://code.google.com/apis/language/virtualkeyboard/v1/getting_started.html
  130. # [08:28] <MikeSmith> "With the Virtual Keyboard API, you can enable an onscreen keyboard on any text field or text area on your webpage"
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  175. # [10:55] <benschwarz> Hixie: !ping
  176. # [10:58] <Hixie> vaguely here
  177. # [10:58] <Hixie> about to head to bed
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  219. # [11:39] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: did you have a chance to look at that script-checker patch?
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  223. # [12:00] <benschwarz> Damnit, missed Hixie's messages
  224. # [12:00] <benschwarz> oh well.
  225. # [12:01] <benschwarz> just wanted you to check the progress and intro text :)
  226. # [12:06] <annevk> @WHATWG still works, yay
  227. # [12:06] <annevk> I was wondering whether excluding editorial edits was actually necessary...
  228. # [12:07] <MikeSmith> I think some of supposedly editorial edits are often things other people might actually like to know about
  229. # [12:08] <annevk> Yeah...
  230. # [12:08] <annevk> Anyone else?
  231. # [12:09] <MikeSmith> for example, http://html5.org/r/5751
  232. # [12:09] <MikeSmith> "Add best-practices sections for media elements"
  233. # [12:10] <MikeSmith> maybe Hixie needs to add another flag to distinguish potentially interesting editorial changes from mundane ones
  234. # [12:10] <Ms2ger> Wasn't that @html5?
  235. # [12:10] <Ms2ger> http://twitter.com/html5/status/23525623414652928
  236. # [12:11] <annevk> @html5 has a lot of stuff
  237. # [12:11] <annevk> also it does not seem to filter Hixie's checkin messages
  238. # [12:11] <MikeSmith> yeah, and I'm considering turning of the notifications about spec changes getting retweeted there
  239. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> now that @whatwg is working again
  240. # [12:12] <MikeSmith> *turning off
  241. # [12:13] <benschwarz> MikeSmith: is the link that I used on the intro okay?
  242. # [12:13] * MikeSmith looks
  243. # [12:14] * Ms2ger likes
  244. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> benschwarz: I usually use http://people.w3.org/mike/ these days
  245. # [12:15] * benschwarz is talking about http://developers.whatwg.org/
  246. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> but that's fine too
  247. # [12:15] <benschwarz> MikeSmith: I'll change it over?
  248. # [12:15] <MikeSmith> yeah, or I guess I should blog more
  249. # [12:16] <benschwarz> deploying…
  250. # [12:16] <benschwarz> done
  251. # [12:16] <MikeSmith> man the last time I wrote an actual blog entry at sideshowbarker.net was more than a year ago
  252. # [12:17] <MikeSmith> maybe I can hire somebody to write blog entries for me
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  254. # [12:17] <benschwarz> make sure they're cheap
  255. # [12:18] <benschwarz> then I can hire them too
  256. # [12:18] <benschwarz> haha
  257. # [12:18] <benschwarz> my last was in may (the w3c one)
  258. # [12:18] <benschwarz> I'd drafted one when I was in japan, but never released
  259. # [12:18] <benschwarz> boo
  260. # [12:19] <Ms2ger> Might help skimming if the headings were pulled into the left margin, like the notes
  261. # [12:19] <benschwarz> Ms2ger: major headings are pulled left
  262. # [12:19] <Rik`> benschwarz: links in TOC are missing a "call to action sign" (no underline, no hover difference)
  263. # [12:19] <benschwarz> but I do need to properly design something. I've been just pushing the styles around that we had previously and working out how to do useful things to the splitters
  264. # [12:20] <Ms2ger> There's usually only one or two of those, though
  265. # [12:21] <benschwarz> Ms2ger: thats true, I debated about having the numbered sections, but I hid them for now
  266. # [12:21] <benschwarz> I might pull them back out
  267. # [12:22] <Ms2ger> And maybe style ul.brief differently
  268. # [12:23] <benschwarz> Ms2ger: where is it seen?
  269. # [12:24] <Ms2ger> http://developers.whatwg.org/elements.html#global-attributes
  270. # [12:26] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Does Web DOM Core have tests for not case folding in XHTML for e.g. createElement, getAttribute, tagName, etc.
  271. # [12:27] <gsnedders> jgraham: Not in the tests I wrote, at least
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  273. # [12:27] <benschwarz> Rik`: I added a hover, for now
  274. # [12:27] <Rik`> benschwarz: thanks
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  276. # [12:29] <benschwarz> I'm out for tonight. Queries? Log an issue :)
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  278. # [12:29] <benschwarz> laters!
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  287. # [12:30] * jgraham is unhappy to see that many Web DOM Core tests abuse testharness.js, adding weight to the arguments of those who have complained about the design :(
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  290. # [12:34] <gsnedders> jgraham: Abuse it in what way?
  291. # [12:37] <jgraham> gsnedders: Lots of independent tests in a single test()
  292. # [12:38] <Ms2ger> Blame Anne ;)
  293. # [12:38] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
  294. # [12:38] <Ms2ger> And doesn't look like it
  295. # [12:39] <jgraham> What doesn't look like it?
  296. # [12:39] <jgraham> https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/web-dom-core/src/c7135c7ce9f9/tests/Element-setAttribute.html
  297. # [12:39] <jgraham> Oh, you mean the original question
  298. # [12:40] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  299. # [12:44] <bga_> lol compare http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/#events-KeyboardEvent-initKeyboardEvent and https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/event.initKeyEvent
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  301. # [12:45] * bga_ confused
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  303. # [12:50] <bga_> hm http://docs.blackberry.com/en/developers/deliverables/11849/KeyboardEvent_569351_11.jsp#KeyboardEvent_initKeyboardEvent_569356_11
  304. # [12:56] <bga_> also there is tupo in spec
  305. # [12:57] <bga_> in header initKeyboardEvent with `repeat` arg
  306. # [12:57] <bga_> but in details nothing `repeat` arg
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  313. # [13:17] <smaug____> bga_: what is strange in that comparison? Gecko implements an old version DOM0 key events, DOM 3 Event (which isn't yet a recommendation) defines key events in a different way.
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  320. # [13:22] <bga_> smaug____ i see. branching code hell.
  321. # [13:22] <bga_> w3c + gecko + ie
  322. # [13:23] <smaug____> +webkit + opera
  323. # [13:23] <bga_> does webkit has own implementation of KeyboardEvent interface ?
  324. # [13:24] <smaug____> I don't know what kind of interface it has
  325. # [13:24] <bga_> i see w3c's version in ch10
  326. # [13:24] <smaug____> Safari 5 might have something else
  327. # [13:24] <bga_> :(
  328. # [13:24] <smaug____> and DOM 3 Events may still change
  329. # [13:25] <annevk> DOM Core tests are not original testharness.js tests
  330. # [13:25] <annevk> they are ported to that format
  331. # [13:25] <annevk> fwiw
  332. # [13:25] <Philip`> bga_: Why would you expect technology as advanced and complex and keyboard input to be interoperably supported already?
  333. # [13:26] <Philip`> We've barely had a dozen years to understand it
  334. # [13:26] <annevk> I'm gonna update WebAppsTweet to also tweet for editorial changes now
  335. # [13:27] <MikeSmith> cool
  336. # [13:32] * Quits: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: nattokirai)
  337. # [13:34] <bga_> Philip` i`m just trying switch keyboard leds using dispatchEvent :)
  338. # [13:35] <annevk> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/WebAppsTweet documents source code for WebAppsTweet
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  341. # [13:44] <Philip`> bga_: Uh, that doesn't really sound like it'll ever work :-p
  342. # [13:44] <Philip`> since keyboard events come much later in the chain of processing than LED changes
  343. # [13:45] <MikeSmith> http://vl.kamibu.com/2011/01/why-webgl/
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  345. # [13:50] <annevk> heh, MikeSmith, so friendfeed still has a non-OAuth API?
  346. # [13:50] * annevk was looking at how @html5 solved the problem
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  348. # [13:57] <MikeSmith> annevk: friendfeed uses OAuth for Twitter
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  358. # [14:13] <matjas> How about this piece of markup? Price: €99 <small>(VAT included)</small>
  359. # [14:14] <matjas> Thoughts?
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  361. # [14:15] <annevk> MikeSmith, oh okay
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  363. # [14:15] <matjas> okay, annevk didn’t call me out so I’m gonna assume this is a valid use case for <small>
  364. # [14:15] <annevk> heh, looks fine to me :)
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  366. # [14:16] <annevk> matjas, could file a bug to get it added to the spec if you want
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  368. # [14:16] <matjas> will do
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  372. # [14:29] <bga_> heh only ff returns currect Function#length for host functions
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  374. # [14:31] <schalkn> Hi all
  375. # [14:32] <schalkn> A belated but Happy New Year to everyone
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  401. # [15:18] <beowulf> is Toby Inkster about?
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  423. # [15:55] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I sent you email about code review
  424. # [15:56] <MikeSmith> thanks
  425. # [15:56] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: sorry for disappearing for the weekend without saying anything
  426. # [15:56] <MikeSmith> no problem man
  427. # [15:56] <MikeSmith> there's no rush on this stuff
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  433. # [16:02] <MikeSmith> david_carlisle: just sent a reply to your e-mail message about the MathML schema
  434. # [16:03] <MikeSmith> I don't know why the Openmath stuff is there -- need hsivonen to comment on that
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  451. # [16:15] <david_carlisle> MikeSmith: thanks (although I saw the email before i saw you telling me I had an email, ii only sporadically watch the IRC still:-)
  452. # [16:15] <MikeSmith> OK
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  455. # [16:27] <jgraham> Hmm, removeAttribute seems to be case-insensitive in gecko/Opera
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  460. # [16:31] <Philip`> "The best solution for HTML5 (via tooling, education, author guidance) is to not fake text entry via canvas elements – much better native mechanisms for text editing already exist in HTML5." - hmm, seems Microsoft opinions are starting to align more and more with the cabal
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  462. # [16:32] <Workshiva> You mean the cabal is becoming embraced and extended by Microsoft? :P
  463. # [16:34] <hsivonen> so I know next to nothing about scripting Flash Player...
  464. # [16:34] <hsivonen> Are there some JS methods that Flash Player always exposes on object elements that have loaded .swf?
  465. # [16:34] <hsivonen> regardless of what the .swf is?
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  472. # [16:50] * hsivonen discovers GetVariable
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  479. # [17:08] <hsivonen> Wow. Arista and Transmageddon are so different from every other video compression app I've ever used.
  480. # [17:08] <hsivonen> once you choose WebM, there are no addititional tweakable settings
  481. # [17:09] <hsivonen> it just does something with setting the developers have deemed to be appropriate
  482. # [17:09] <hsivonen> which is very easy for the user
  483. # [17:09] <hsivonen> takes away the trouble of how to tweak the settings
  484. # [17:10] <Rik`> hsivonen: Miro convertor does that too ?
  485. # [17:10] <Philip`> That's no fun
  486. # [17:11] <Philip`> What's the point in encoding videos if it doesn't give you an opportunity to play with exciting strings like -vcodec libx264 -vpre slow -bf 0 -crf 25 -acodec libfaac -ac 2 -ar 48000 -ab 192k which you don't understand and have to randomly tweak until they look like they're probably working?
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  543. # [19:32] <paul_irish> is anyone familiar with the `target` style property? apparent use: a { target: new front; }
  544. # [19:32] <TabAtkins> Defined in the link behavior draft (I think that's the right name...). No one implemented it, it's been dead for years.
  545. # [19:32] <paul_irish> thx tab.
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  547. # [19:34] <Ms2ger> Not even Opera?
  548. # [19:34] <TabAtkins> Don't think so.
  549. # [19:35] <paul_irish> i learned about it from w3schools http://www.w3schools.com/css3/css3_pr_target.asp ;)
  550. # [19:36] <TabAtkins> Ah, found the original spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-hyperlinks/
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  552. # [19:40] <Ms2ger> Doesn't look like it, indeed
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  556. # [19:43] <Ms2ger> Also, doesn't seem like anybody whined about Opera implementing -apple-dashboard-region
  557. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> ...
  558. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> Can I whine about it now?
  559. # [19:43] <Ms2ger> Certainly
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  561. # [19:44] <Peter`> I whined about WebKit implementing -apple-dashboard-region :/
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  571. # [20:10] <othermaciej> why in the world would Opera implement -apple-dashboard-region?
  572. # [20:10] <othermaciej> it does nothing in Safari
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  575. # [20:13] <gsnedders> othermaciej: It only does something in the Widget Runtime
  576. # [20:13] <othermaciej> does the Widget Runtime attempt to run Dashboard widgets?
  577. # [20:13] <othermaciej> (as opposed to W3C widgets)
  578. # [20:16] <gsnedders> AFAIK no.
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  582. # [20:29] <othermaciej> then I can't imagine a reason to copy the vendor prefix or even the syntax...
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  589. # [20:56] <AryehGregor> Does anyone know of a way to get Live DOM Viewer to work in IE9?
  590. # [20:56] <AryehGregor> The XSS protection blocks saved links.
  591. # [20:57] <AryehGregor> Actually, it completely disables the functionality.
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  599. # [21:12] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, is there some way to create a Range object other than selection.getRangeAt() or range.cloneRange()?
  600. # [21:13] <Ms2ger> document.createRange?
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  602. # [21:13] <AryehGregor> Ah, thanks.
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  607. # [21:24] <Hixie> btw if anyone sees issues in developers.whatwg.org, ben's asked us to file them in https://github.com/benschwarz/developers.whatwg.org/issues
  608. # [21:27] <annevk> http://twitter.com/WHATWG/status/24561930723131393
  609. # [21:27] <annevk> and with that I'm off to bed
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  614. # [21:34] <foolip_> Hixie, could you add a redirect from http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html to http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#microdata ? My links are broken :(
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  617. # [21:36] <beowulf> Hixie: shouldn't the nav be in the header?
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  624. # [21:52] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, if you're familiar with Firefox's Selection implementation, could you comment on this? http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10624
  625. # [21:52] <AryehGregor> I'm not sure what Firefox is doing here.
  626. # [21:52] <Ms2ger> Not at all, but I can read the source
  627. # [21:52] <AryehGregor> Ah.
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  630. # [21:56] <AryehGregor> Do you know who I could ask?
  631. # [21:57] <Rik`> anyone know the status of user-select: none ?
  632. # [21:58] <Rik`> i see it in a previous draft of css3-ui but nothing in the latest one
  633. # [21:58] <Ms2ger> ehsan on Mozilla IRC, looks like
  634. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> Oh, and Gecko indeed has a direction member
  635. # [22:00] <TabAtkins> Rik`: I'd ask tantek.
  636. # [22:01] <Hixie> foolip_: i think Philip` is the one who can help with that
  637. # [22:01] <foolip_> Philip`, ^ ?
  638. # [22:03] <Ms2ger> And extend() looks like a whole new world of hurt
  639. # [22:04] <Hixie> beowulf: ben's the one who is setting it up
  640. # [22:05] <Philip`> foolip_: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/microdata.html does redirect for me
  641. # [22:05] <Philip`> after a few seconds
  642. # [22:06] <Philip`> (The 404 page has scripts to do that)
  643. # [22:06] <foolip_> Philip`, but first you see 404 for a while
  644. # [22:06] <beowulf> Hixie: 'k, ta
  645. # [22:06] <Philip`> foolip_: Yeah, I think anything else would need server-side support, and that would be Hixie's responsibility ;-)
  646. # [22:06] <Hixie> foolip_: it can't easily be done at the server level because the server doesn't have the fragment identifier
  647. # [22:07] <foolip_> Hixie, oh, didn't know you had redirects like that too
  648. # [22:07] <Hixie> Philip`: if you have a list of permanent redirects for page-level updates, stick them in a file in the tarball and i'll merge it into the .htaccess file (the html files still do the fragid redirects right?)
  649. # [22:08] <foolip_> hrm, I don't suppose the script could be run earlier in <head> so that one doesn't get to see the 404 message? I instantly close 404 pages without waiting for the second or whatever this took
  650. # [22:08] <Hixie> i can make the 404 page not look like a 404 page
  651. # [22:08] <Hixie> file a bug
  652. # [22:08] <jgraham> 1
  653. # [22:09] <jgraham> Erm...
  654. # [22:09] <Ms2ger> 2
  655. # [22:09] <Hixie> 2?
  656. # [22:09] <Philip`> Hixie: The list is http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/fragment-links.js
  657. # [22:09] <Ms2ger> Great minds think alike...
  658. # [22:09] <Ms2ger> And sick minds, too?
  659. # [22:09] <Philip`> Hixie: and the 404 page for foo.html looks up foo in that list, and goes to whatever.html#foo
  660. # [22:09] <Philip`> Hixie: for any foo (they're not known in advance)
  661. # [22:10] <Hixie> Philip`: ah
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  663. # [22:10] <Hixie> k well then that leaves making the 404 page less of a 404-looking page
  664. # [22:10] <Hixie> i can do that
  665. # [22:10] * Joins: cszabo1 (~quassel@192.100.106.9)
  666. # [22:10] <Hixie> file a bug if you want it
  667. # [22:10] <Hixie> bbiab, lunch
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  670. # [22:15] <foolip_> very exciting bug filed: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11722
  671. # [22:16] <foolip_> before I go on a coding rampage, does anyone have tools to notify you of changes to particular sections of the spec? For example, I'd like to be notified automatically when the <video> section changes, among others
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  678. # [22:25] <jgraham> foolip_: You plan to implement that? I would really like it :)
  679. # [22:26] <foolip_> jgraham, well, I really want it, but I was hoping someone else would have it
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  681. # [22:27] <foolip_> jgraham, one simple way to do it is to remove the section you want to follow in git and keep moving that patch along until it conflicts, for example
  682. # [22:28] * Joins: jaket (~jake@124-169-137-108.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  683. # [22:28] <foolip_> s/git/your favorite VCS/
  684. # [22:29] * Joins: cying (~cying@173-228-29-224.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  685. # [22:29] <cying> if i want to start manipulating a DOM, do i need to wait for the DOMContentLoaded event?
  686. # [22:29] <jgraham> foolip_: That sounds like a clever hack but not quite like an elegant solution :)
  687. # [22:29] <jgraham> cying: No
  688. # [22:29] <gsnedders> cying: No.
  689. # [22:29] <cying> (if the DOM content is inlined)
  690. # [22:29] <Philip`> foolip_: That sounds kind of indirect - why not just cut out the section you want using regexps, and diff it each time to see what changed?
  691. # [22:29] * Quits: ROBOd (~robod@92.84.205.155) (Quit: .)
  692. # [22:29] <jgraham> gsnedders: That extra period cost you
  693. # [22:30] <cying> jgraham: gsnedders: so i can just start manipulating it in javascript without waiting for anything?
  694. # [22:30] <jgraham> cying: Well it has to be loaded
  695. # [22:30] <foolip_> Philip`, something like that was my second idea
  696. # [22:30] <foolip_> for some reason my first idea usually involves git
  697. # [22:30] <Philip`> foolip_: As a bonus, it doesn't involve git
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  699. # [22:31] <jgraham> <!-- initial dom --><script><!-- I can manipulate anything in initial dom --></script><!-- final dom -->
  700. # [22:31] <cying> jgraham: is that an event? or do you just mean that the DOM comes from inlined markup before the script?
  701. # [22:31] <cying> jgraham: ahhh
  702. # [22:31] <jgraham> cying: The lattter
  703. # [22:31] <cying> ahhh
  704. # [22:31] <cying> cool!
  705. # [22:31] <gsnedders> cying: You can rely upon everything up to and including the script element being executed being in the DOM, but nothing more
  706. # [22:32] <cying> gsnedders: ah! that must be written somewhere i bet
  707. # [22:32] <jgraham> Yes, that's true, you can manipulate the script itself if you are evil
  708. # [22:32] <gsnedders> jgraham: That won't cause it to run again, though, no?
  709. # [22:32] <jgraham> No
  710. # [22:33] <jgraham> Unless changing the src has that effect?
  711. # [22:33] <jgraham> (for an external script)
  712. # [22:33] <cying> fascinating!
  713. # [22:33] <jgraham> But I think it doesn't
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  721. # [22:59] <Hixie> foolip_: i don't think we have any section-specific following stuff, but it would be interesting if someone set that up.
  722. # [22:59] <Hixie> foolip_: part of the problem is knowing how to define a section, since i often move stuff around
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  729. # [23:24] <jgraham> me, I might try using an html parser and the document structure to find my way around. Not that easy to get from a line-based diff to "did this section change" of course, but possible
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  735. # [23:28] <jgraham> Also, what is the disadvantage of replacing <hgroup> with <h1>Main heading <subhead>Subheading</subhead></h1>
  736. # [23:29] <jgraham> ?
  737. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> That feels weird.
  738. # [23:30] <jgraham> TabAtkins: It seems to be equivalent to me, albeit with slighly different legacy fallback semantics
  739. # [23:31] <jgraham> Maybe it is bad if we ever get a :heading selector though
  740. # [23:31] <jgraham> Since we would want that to not match the subheading (presumably)
  741. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> Actually, I think we would want it to match.
  742. # [23:32] <TabAtkins> The subheading is still part of the heading.
  743. # [23:32] <jgraham> So you would do :heading(n) and :heading(n) > subhead ?
  744. # [23:33] <jgraham> To style the two parts
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  746. # [23:33] <TabAtkins> Yeah, with that structure. Similar with <hgroup>.
  747. # [23:33] <jgraham> It's harder with hgroup, I think
  748. # [23:33] <TabAtkins> Hm. Benefit of <subhead> in that context is that it's a single element, so you don't need to remember what precise heading level was used.
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  751. # [23:33] <jgraham> Yeah
  752. # [23:33] <oojacoboo> hixie, like the new spec look :)
  753. # [23:34] <Hixie> you mean developers.whatwg.org?
  754. # [23:34] <Hixie> that's all ben's work
  755. # [23:34] <oojacoboo> ah
  756. # [23:34] <oojacoboo> http://simon.html5.org/html5-elements
  757. # [23:34] <oojacoboo> I use that, so, I guess he switched it over to the developers.whatwg.org domain
  758. # [23:34] <Hixie> yeah
  759. # [23:34] <jgraham> And it is more obvious what :heading should match (no question if it is the <hgroup> or the actual heading)
  760. # [23:34] <TabAtkins> jgraham: Indeed. Hm, okay, I'm liking your idea better now.
  761. # [23:35] <Hixie> jgraham: i still occasionally get 500s when genning the spec with the w3c annotations
  762. # [23:36] <Hixie> jgraham: fwiw
  763. # [23:36] <Hixie> jgraham: dunno if you care (i just restart my script and that seems to fix it usually)
  764. # [23:36] <TabAtkins> <3 @WHATWG being back up.
  765. # [23:36] <jamesr_> TabAtkins: i'm working on something like https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/window.mozRequestAnimationFrame for webkit and will want to move towards standardizing it. where would something like this be defined?
  766. # [23:37] <Hixie> TabAtkins: all annevk's work :-)
  767. # [23:37] <TabAtkins> jamesr_: You mean which standards body?
  768. # [23:37] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@78.185.57.236) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  769. # [23:37] <Hixie> jamesr_: sounds like a cssom thing
  770. # [23:37] <Hixie> jamesr_: annevk's baby
  771. # [23:38] <jgraham> Hixie: I expect it times out sometimes
  772. # [23:38] <jamesr_> TabAtkins: more wondering what it would fall under
  773. # [23:38] <jgraham> But I could check the logs I guess
  774. # [23:38] <jamesr_> there's nothing css-specific about it really
  775. # [23:38] <Hixie> jamesr_: CSSOM isn't CSS-specific
  776. # [23:38] <TabAtkins> jamesr_: That's a hard one.
  777. # [23:38] * Joins: crash\ (bouncer@lubyte.de)
  778. # [23:38] <jamesr_> Hixie: o.O
  779. # [23:39] * Joins: estes_ (~aestes@17.246.16.160)
  780. # [23:39] <Hixie> jamesr_: it's just where media-dependent DOM features go
  781. # [23:40] <jamesr_> why's it called CSSOM then?
  782. # [23:41] <Hixie> historical reasons
  783. # [23:41] <Hixie> same reason Window is specced in a spec that claims to be HTML
  784. # [23:42] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
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  786. # [23:42] * estes_ is now known as estes
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  788. # [23:50] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
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  791. # [23:52] <roc> jamesr_: heycam already wrote something BTW
  792. # [23:54] * jgraham wonders if we can have pretty styles for the implementor version of the spec
  793. # [23:55] <jgraham> Although not with the serif typefaces
  794. # [23:56] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  795. # [23:56] <TabAtkins> Boo at serifs outside of headings.
  796. # [23:59] <oojacoboo> what's the thought behind not allowing form elements to be styled in any consistent manner
  797. # [23:59] * Joins: Jedi_ (~Jedi@Jedi.org)
  798. # [23:59] <TabAtkins> The thought is that tantek is working on it.
  799. # [23:59] <TabAtkins> Also: form elements are displayed differently in different browsers/OSes.
  800. # [23:59] <paul_irish> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects#Styling_HTML5_UI_elements
  801. # [23:59] <TabAtkins> Frex, check out a <select multiple> in Opera Mobile.
  802. # [23:59] <oojacoboo> TabAtkins: that doesn't have to be the case
  803. # Session Close: Tue Jan 11 00:00:00 2011

The end :)