/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-02-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Feb 25 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:03] <dydx> annevk: The draft does not explicitly define the phrase "CSS layout box".
  8. # [00:03] <annevk> dydx, yeah, mostly because CSS doesn't
  9. # [00:03] <annevk> I would have expected <col> and <colgroup> to not really represent a box of their own
  10. # [00:04] <TabAtkins> They have backgrounds, so they have a box.
  11. # [00:04] <annevk> but if they do represent a box, the column / and column box
  12. # [00:04] <annevk> they have edges and everything should be clear, no?
  13. # [00:05] <dydx> annevk: Section 17.2.1 of the CSS 2.1 spec. <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#anonymous-boxes> implies columns and column groups have boxes, but by section 17.3 though they conform to a more restrictive CSS box model. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#columns
  14. # [00:06] <annevk> CSS is such a sucky spec
  15. # [00:06] <TabAtkins> Everything surrounding tables is crap, definitely. >_<
  16. # [00:06] <annevk> if it actually properly defined what was being "created" quering it wouldn't be so damn complex
  17. # [00:06] <annevk> or damn complex to define
  18. # [00:06] <dydx> TabAtkins: <http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html#columns> seems to imply that columsn and colmn gourps only influence the table cells
  19. # [00:06] <annevk> because at this point CSSOM is all about plugging holes in CSS
  20. # [00:07] <annevk> yeah, they're not really boxes after all
  21. # [00:07] <dydx> :-(
  22. # [00:07] <annevk> so if you don't want zero you need special behavior like you said
  23. # [00:07] <TabAtkins> dydx: Yeah, brain fart on my side. <col> and <colgroup> don't really generate boxes.
  24. # [00:08] <annevk> dydx, I suggest emailing www-style@w3.org
  25. # [00:08] <jgraham> annevk: "must be useless" is a pretty hard to grok requirement
  26. # [00:08] <jgraham> I wouldn't know how to test it
  27. # [00:08] <dydx> annevk: That is what I thought was being implied.
  28. # [00:08] <annevk> dydx, I really dislike editing CSSOM View for the aforementioned reasons so it might be awhile I suppose :/
  29. # [00:08] <annevk> jgraham, right, it has a red blob
  30. # [00:08] <dydx> annevk: Do row-groups have boxes?
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  32. # [00:08] <annevk> dydx, those do I think
  33. # [00:09] <TabAtkins> Yes, they do.
  34. # [00:09] * annevk reads a bit more
  35. # [00:09] <jgraham> annevk: Right, so it seems you should solve the objection by saying "must be zero [TODO: is this what we want here?]"
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  37. # [00:09] <zewt> IMO, better to just say "TODO" and not put in a placeholder that we definitely don't want
  38. # [00:10] <jgraham> Do we know we don't want it to be 0?
  39. # [00:10] <annevk> jgraham, it seems like people should appreciate a bit of humor with issues that are clearly open
  40. # [00:10] <annevk> jgraham, yes
  41. # [00:10] <jgraham> Oh, Ok well put in a sensible option
  42. # [00:10] <TabAtkins> I disagree. If there's an answer that has a reasonable chance of being right, better to write it and annotate it.
  43. # [00:10] <annevk> we don't know the answer
  44. # [00:10] <zewt> i don't think "must be 0" has a reasonable chance of being right
  45. # [00:10] <annevk> geez people
  46. # [00:10] <annevk> study the issue
  47. # [00:10] <jgraham> annevk: Humor in specs is dangerous
  48. # [00:11] <TabAtkins> Oh wait, are we talking about timestamps or column boxes?
  49. # [00:11] <annevk> not until Microsoft complained
  50. # [00:11] * Quits: Evet (~Evet@pdpc/supporter/active/evet) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  51. # [00:11] * TabAtkins thought the latter.
  52. # [00:11] <zewt> yeah, it might reveal the fact that there are humans behind the specs :)
  53. # [00:11] <jgraham> Hixie gets away with it because people don't read what he writes closely enough to care
  54. # [00:11] <jgraham> Because it is so long
  55. # [00:11] <jgraham> And the people who do read closely don't care
  56. # [00:11] <gsnedders> And he mainly does it in examples.
  57. # [00:11] <jgraham> Yes that was the other reason
  58. # [00:12] <dydx> jgraham: For completeness, IE7, IE8, and IE9 in quirks mode return non-zero values ofr offsetWidth and offsetHeight (why not for offsetLeft and offsetTop?) for <col>s and <colgroups>. And offset{Left, Top, Width, Height} are Microsoft extensions
  59. # [00:12] <jgraham> dydx: I thought I was talking about currentTime
  60. # [00:12] <zewt> we need threaded IRC clients
  61. # [00:12] <jgraham> But I am quite surprised that no one has complained about the </sarcasm> thing yet
  62. # [00:13] <gsnedders> jgraham: That's too well hidden.
  63. # [00:13] <jgraham> I mean we probably need an ISSUE- and a set of change proposals and everything
  64. # [00:13] <zewt> writing a test set for sarcasm sounds entertaining
  65. # [00:13] <jgraham> zewt: That was called Google Wave
  66. # [00:13] <annevk> dydx, sounds kind of odd
  67. # [00:13] <jgraham> and it sucked
  68. # [00:13] <zewt> ouch
  69. # [00:13] <jgraham> I mean threaded IRC
  70. # [00:13] <annevk> dydx, Microsoft has aligned with the spec before... but if you want it to be different just raise it on the mailing list
  71. # [00:13] <jgraham> Not a test for sarcasm
  72. # [00:13] <zewt> heh :P
  73. # [00:14] <jgraham> All UAs fail the <sarcasm> test since none takes a deep breath
  74. # [00:14] <annevk> dydx, this is a great start, but I'm not editing that spec at the moment so I might forget about it
  75. # [00:14] <dydx> annevk: Well, it looks like Microsoft has changed how these properites behave in standards mode such that they all return 0.
  76. # [00:14] <jgraham> In fact since breating is clearly device specific it has no place in a HTML spec
  77. # [00:15] <jgraham> *breathing
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  81. # [00:15] <dydx> annevk: I don't have a strong objection to them being zero since they aren't consider boxes.
  82. # [00:15] <gsnedders> jgraham: I believe I made that argument in IRC when implementing it before.
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  84. # [00:15] <dydx> annevk: I just wanted to make sure I was understanding the CSSOM spec, correcty with regards to "CSS layout box"
  85. # [00:16] <jgraham> When we get a CSS media for androids (i.e. humanoid robots) presumably there will be properties to control their breathing
  86. # [00:17] <jgraham> Anyway now I hav made the point in IRC, and knowing that many of the people who like to raise ISSUEs read the logs, I expect a bug by the morning and a request to escalate by the end of the month
  87. # [00:18] <annevk> dydx, I see; I guess I'll email myself saying to make that clearer
  88. # [00:18] <annevk> dydx, i.e. that column column-box does not give you a layout box or some such
  89. # [00:18] * hober was seriously considering implementing </sarcasm>'s deep breath as (message "Taking a deep breath...") in the elisp parser
  90. # [00:18] <TabAtkins> hober: You didn't?
  91. # [00:19] <hober> TabAtkins: I haven't built the parser yet
  92. # [00:19] <hober> I'll let you know what I do when I get to it
  93. # [00:19] <hober> (I only have the tokenizer built at this point, and that needs some retooling before it'll really be useful)
  94. # [00:19] <dydx> annevk: Notice, Firefox returns non-zero values for these properties. I also have a test case on the bug <https://bug-15277-attachments.webkit.org/attachment.cgi?id=83230> which can be used to compare the behavior in various browsers.
  95. # [00:20] <annevk> yeah, CSS is a big mess :)
  96. # [00:20] <annevk> I included a link to the logs in my email to myself
  97. # [00:20] <dydx> annevk: I am unclear from this disucssion, do you even want to consider having these offset properties return non-zero values for columns and column-groups?
  98. # [00:20] <annevk> sure if you want to
  99. # [00:20] <annevk> but then please email www-style
  100. # [00:21] <jgraham> hober: I am totally depending on you for a non-sucky HTML mode for emacs
  101. # [00:21] <jgraham> How can I make you work faster? :)
  102. # [00:21] <annevk> dydx, I have no strong opinion on what anything in the spec should say, I just wanted it defined somewhere
  103. # [00:22] <annevk> dydx, which is also why I work on it less than other specs; most other specs are not build on something so vague
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  105. # [00:22] <annevk> (well, the ones I edit)
  106. # [00:22] <hober> jgraham: convince apple it's something I should do during the day. :)
  107. # [00:23] <jgraham> othermaciej: You should let hober make my life better :)
  108. # [00:23] <dydx> annevk: OK. What would you suggest we do at this time then for <https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15277>? I can hardcode these offset properties to return 0 for <col>s and <colgroup>s
  109. # [00:23] <hober> hahaha
  110. # [00:23] <jgraham> :)
  111. # [00:23] * hober doesn't report to maciej
  112. # [00:23] <jgraham> Dammit
  113. # [00:24] <dydx> annevk: If you have an opinion on this. Otherwise, I'll think about it some more.
  114. # [00:24] <hober> but yeah, all that's been on hold during the pack / move / new job bit
  115. # [00:24] <annevk> dydx, aligning with Firefox might make sense
  116. # [00:24] <jgraham> hober: I will have to assume he is skilled at subtley manipulating the people you do work for
  117. # [00:24] <hober> I'm hoping to get back to it in the next month or so
  118. # [00:24] <jgraham> s/work for/report to/
  119. # [00:24] <annevk> dydx, IE was converging with their model somewhat, and so is everyone else I have the feeling
  120. # [00:24] <dydx> annevk: OK. Then for your reference, this will be incompatible with both CSSOM and Opera
  121. # [00:24] <annevk> right
  122. # [00:24] <jgraham> hober: Seriously though, I look forward to it when it's done
  123. # [00:24] <hober> jgraham: well, he does chair a w3c wg, so clearly subtley manipulating things is high on his skill list :)
  124. # [00:25] <hober> yeah, me too
  125. # [00:25] <annevk> dydx, could you still please email www-style? :)
  126. # [00:25] <jgraham> And I totally understand moving/changing jobs/etc. killing side projects at least in the short term
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  128. # [00:26] <dydx> annevk: sure, I can start a conversation about it on the list.
  129. # [00:26] <annevk> thanks
  130. # [00:26] <annevk> bedtime for me
  131. # [00:26] <dydx> annevk: thanks for your time
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  134. # [00:29] <hober> jgraham: 22 boxes to go, and we'll be fully unpacked
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  137. # [00:38] <jgraham> hober: You should paint them green and sit them on the wall
  138. # [00:38] <TabAtkins> Alternately: paint them cobblestone and do real-life minecraft.
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  140. # [00:39] <hober> I'll run those plans by my wife and let you know what she says. :)
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  143. # [00:46] <Philip`> hober: Implementing </sarcasm> is dangerous
  144. # [00:47] <Philip`> WebKit had a parser bug due to </sarcasm>, and if someone else implements it and has a bug then that'll be strong evidence that humour in specs is harmful :-(
  145. # [00:47] <gsnedders> Philip`: What bug?
  146. # [00:48] <TabAtkins> The instruction is "treat like an unrecognized tag", so I'm confused as to how that can cause a parser bug.
  147. # [00:49] <Philip`> They didn't treat it like an unrecognised tag
  148. # [00:49] <Philip`> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45645
  149. # [00:49] <gsnedders> They took a deep breath and did nothing?
  150. # [00:49] <TabAtkins> Then they didn't follow the spec.
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  152. # [00:49] <Philip`> (Does html5lib have a test case for this?)
  153. # [00:50] <zewt> this is perhaps my single favorite browser ticket: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=62435
  154. # [00:50] <gsnedders> Philip`: If Adam pushed his test upstream, yes.
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  158. # [00:53] <gsnedders> Philip`: Yes, he did.
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  178. # [01:25] <alystair> paul_irish: html5-boilerplate's .htaccess should have notes about servers utilizing Google Page Speed Apache module as it may severely interfere and/or confuse developers :)
  179. # [01:25] <alystair> http://code.google.com/speed/page-speed/
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  185. # [01:37] <ap> Hixie: why does <http://dev.w3.org/html5/websockets/> link to <http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-socket-protocol/> in status section? is it just a mistake?
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  197. # [01:50] <Hixie> ap: yeah
  198. # [01:51] <ap> Hixie: there goes my hope that we don't need SHA-1
  199. # [01:51] <Hixie> hm?
  200. # [01:52] <ap> Hixie: nothing really. the IETF version feel awfully complicated to me, but I haven't been following the discussion to be qualified to judge it
  201. # [01:54] <Hixie> ah yeah. me either.
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  204. # [01:54] <Hixie> websockets has pretty much convinced me that the ietf doesn't know how to write web standards
  205. # [01:55] <Hixie> live and learn
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  213. # [01:58] <Dashiva> Isn't using SHA-1 a bit old hat?
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  221. # [02:25] <Dashiva> I'm clearly staying up too late and delirious, because I could swear I saw a change proposal about longdesc
  222. # [02:26] <Hixie> wasn't that issue just reopened?
  223. # [02:27] <Dashiva> Seems so
  224. # [02:27] <Dashiva> Not that anything seems to have changed, except for the amount of text
  225. # [02:29] <Hixie> dunno, i'll have to read their new information
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  227. # [02:30] <Dashiva> "Recent research finds that obsoleting longdesc specifically breaks the web for over 150 sites in the wild that are using it to describe images."
  228. # [02:30] <Hixie> how does it break the web for them?
  229. # [02:31] <TabAtkins> It sounds like they're treating "breaks the web" as a talisman without understanding what it means.
  230. # [02:31] <Hixie> also that seems like a really broken interpretation of the term "breaks the web"
  231. # [02:31] <Hixie> yeah
  232. # [02:31] <Hixie> what tab said
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  234. # [02:31] <Hixie> anyway i need to read their data before i can form an opinion
  235. # [02:31] <TabAtkins> Specifically, it doesn't mean "makes non-conformant".
  236. # [02:32] <Hixie> i was thinking more that "break the web" means to break "the web", i.e. a large percentage of the web
  237. # [02:32] <Hixie> you know, at least like 0.2% or something
  238. # [02:32] <Dashiva> I'm not entirely against the idea that non-conforming is to some degree breaking, but I suspect almost every one of these sites is already non-validating for other reasons
  239. # [02:33] <Hixie> 150 sites is such a tiny number it's ridiculous
  240. # [02:33] <Hixie> i myself host 60 sites on my one shared server :-)
  241. # [02:33] <Hixie> Dashiva: "break" in the context of "break the web" means that the user experience would change
  242. # [02:34] <TabAtkins> No, I wouldn't support "make non-conforming" being "breaking" at all. "Breaking" means *breaking* - some functionality that the site was depending on for correct treatment no longer works.
  243. # [02:34] <Hixie> Dashiva: nobody is suggesting changing the user experience for anyone
  244. # [02:34] <TabAtkins> s/treatment/user experience/, exactly.
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  246. # [02:34] <Dashiva> I know that myself, but I can see normal people thinking it means they can't use it at all
  247. # [02:35] <Dashiva> Even just "deprecated" seems to spell doom and failure for a lot of people
  248. # [02:35] <Hixie> not using it in new sites is not breaking the web
  249. # [02:37] <TabAtkins> Dashiva: We shouldn't be having "normal people" writing change proposals. They should be knowledgeable enough to understand how the web works. I wouldn't expect my mom to understand the distinction, but everyone in the HTMLWG should.
  250. # [02:38] <Dashiva> I know that too, but normal people will write websites
  251. # [02:38] <TabAtkins> Sure, and they shouldn't use @longdesc.
  252. # [02:38] <TabAtkins> Which obsoleting the attribute suggests. ^_^
  253. # [02:38] <Dashiva> Every day I see people doing silly things in their markup because of some groundless fear of deprecation or validation
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  256. # [02:49] <zewt> <annevk> Pretty good email filters then <- *cough*
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  271. # [03:42] <boblet> is there a short URL like http://whatwg.org/C for HTML-Living Standard?
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  273. # [03:45] <nimbupani> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/ is the html5 spec in whatwg
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  275. # [03:47] <boblet> nimbupani: HTML5++ you mean :p
  276. # [03:47] <nimbupani> :)))
  277. # [03:47] <boblet> aah there tis: http://whatwg.org/html
  278. # [03:47] <nimbupani> aha
  279. # [03:47] <nimbupani> neet
  280. # [03:47] <nimbupani> thnx boblet
  281. # [03:48] <boblet> nimbupani: haven’t you heard? there ain’t no 5 no more round these here parts
  282. # [03:48] <nimbupani> oops :|
  283. # [03:48] <nimbupani> MY BAD
  284. # [03:50] <boblet> hmm, maybe I should write something about that… ;)
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  378. # [09:14] <Hixie> anyone remember why we dropped inputmode from wf2?
  379. # [09:17] <Hixie> aha, r2220
  380. # [09:18] <erlehmann> why opera cannot into cross-origin? is there something wrong with CORS or have they just not bothered?
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  391. # [09:49] <annevk> erlehmann, various people think something is wrong with CORS, but I guess you could say we have just not bothered so far
  392. # [09:49] <erlehmann> annevk, please bother :)
  393. # [09:49] <erlehmann> kthx
  394. # [09:49] <annevk> erlehmann, it's on the roadmap and I plan to continue fixing the spec :)
  395. # [09:50] <erlehmann> annevk, what *is* wrong with CORS?
  396. # [09:51] <annevk> well, some security researchers believe that the web security model ( http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-principles-of-origin ) is wrong and that by entrenching it further with CORS we are making things worse
  397. # [09:51] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  398. # [09:51] <annevk> specifically, that people will design solutions with CORS that will open them up to become "confused deputies"
  399. # [09:51] <Hixie> MikeSmith: yt?
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  402. # [09:53] <erlehmann> annevk, i am confused. this is duck. QUACK
  403. # [09:54] <Hixie> i don't understand http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11893
  404. # [09:54] <Hixie> why is the html spec the place to define how aria works in svg?
  405. # [09:55] <Hixie> or if that's not the proposal, why would we want multiple definitions of how to implement aria?
  406. # [09:55] <annevk> oh hey, Doug Schepers objects to publishing DOM Core too now
  407. # [09:55] <zewt> <zewt> <annevk> Pretty good email filters then <- *cough*
  408. # [09:55] <zewt> heh
  409. # [09:56] <zewt> (he's who I was surprised at not saying anything the other day...)
  410. # [09:58] <annevk> oh, and he's also rewriting history claiming I'm the one who's doing it
  411. # [09:58] <zewt> his mail seemed not-so-subtly political, so, uh, have fun I guess
  412. # [09:58] <annevk> I wonder if that discussion was minuted
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  419. # [10:05] <karlcow> annevk: your css doesn't make it easy to see what is a quote and what is a prose. Maybe a border-left would help
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  421. # [10:05] <karlcow> re: your last blog post
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  425. # [10:08] <annevk> hmm
  426. # [10:09] <annevk> you have a point, but I don't really feel like addressing it now
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  428. # [10:09] <annevk> so I found the minutes and Doug Schepers is wrong
  429. # [10:09] <annevk> I wonder why he didn't check them himself
  430. # [10:10] <annevk> if you want to make broad claims like someone attempting to rewrite history you ought to check your facts
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  440. # [10:20] <Hixie> hey annevk
  441. # [10:20] <Hixie> dom core doesn't define that children are ordered
  442. # [10:21] * Parts: AlexNRoss (~AleossIRC@unaffiliated/aleoss)
  443. # [10:21] <Hixie> (so e.g. the definition of "preceding sibling" is unclear)
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  445. # [10:21] <annevk> that doesn't follow from finite hierarchical tree?
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  447. # [10:22] <Hixie> no
  448. # [10:22] <Hixie> you can have unordered trees
  449. # [10:22] <Hixie> (e.g. nested hash tables)
  450. # [10:23] <Hixie> best to just explicitly say that an object has an ordered list of children
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  453. # [10:23] <Hixie> and define things in terms of that, imho
  454. # [10:23] <annevk> so " finite hierarchical tree structures" -> " finite hierarchical ordered tree structures"
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  456. # [10:23] <Hixie> i still think it'd be better to be explicit in the definition
  457. # [10:24] <annevk> or "An object A is a child of an object B if and only if B is the parent of A." -> "An object A is a child of an object B if and only if B is the parent of A. The children of an object are ordered."
  458. # [10:24] <annevk> that makes it a statement of fact; not entirely correct hmm
  459. # [10:24] <Hixie> i think you're better off introducing an explicit child list, something like "an object in a tree has a parent and a child list" and then define everything in terms of that
  460. # [10:25] <Hixie> and have that instead of "has a number of properties that other objects do not" which is a bit weak
  461. # [10:25] <annevk> hmm yeah, that could work
  462. # [10:25] <annevk> thanks
  463. # [10:26] <Hixie> np
  464. # [10:26] <Hixie> i'll probably hook into this for webvtt
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  470. # [10:39] <Hixie> right, bed time
  471. # [10:39] <Hixie> nn
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  476. # [10:44] <annevk> https://bitbucket.org/ms2ger/dom-core/changeset/d57a85905b1c
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  483. # [10:50] <zewt> annevk: "A is called a sibling of an object B, if and only if B and A share the same parent." should that say eg. "the same non-null parent"?
  484. # [10:52] <MikeSmith> annevk: I obviously did not get the Notifications draft pub-ready yesterday, but I am now getting it set up for publication on Tuesday
  485. # [10:53] <annevk> zewt, yes
  486. # [10:53] <annevk> MikeSmith, cool, I'll update the WG
  487. # [10:54] <MikeSmith> thnks
  488. # [10:56] <zewt> should it also specifically prohibit cycles?
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  490. # [10:56] <zewt> (implicit from calling it a tree, but most of that section is)
  491. # [10:57] <zewt> well, I guess the point of that section is defining the terms, which the cycle restriction isn't relevant to
  492. # [10:58] <annevk> it might be fun to define tree from first principles and that is what I wanted to do initially, but I gave up on that
  493. # [10:58] <annevk> I would need to learn a bit more for that I think :)
  494. # [11:00] <karlcow> hmm Norway has a strange effect on my sleepiness level. Lack of light?
  495. # [11:01] <annevk> you should go there in summer
  496. # [11:01] <annevk> it's crazy
  497. # [11:01] <annevk> zewt, required an actual parent now :)
  498. # [11:01] <zewt> those poor lonely root nodes
  499. # [11:02] <annevk> I have not needed "root" so far
  500. # [11:02] <annevk> there's a note in the spec about nuking it
  501. # [11:03] <zewt> seems rare enough that just saying "if parent is null" when needed is good enough
  502. # [11:04] <annevk> I'll wait for hixie to redo HTML and see what comes out of that before getting rid of it
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  531. # [12:34] <annevk> http://xkcd.com/865/ nice
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  549. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> annevk: Respec-tified version of Notifications draft:
  550. # [14:09] <MikeSmith> http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebNotifications/
  551. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> give it a few seconds to load
  552. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> there are some tweaks that still need to be done to it
  553. # [14:10] <MikeSmith> but I've done as much as I'm going to on it for today
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  589. # [15:39] <annevk> MikeSmith, neat
  590. # [15:39] <annevk> MikeSmith, hopefully John is up for using that
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  613. # [16:53] <Hixie> guess i'd better join webperf
  614. # [16:57] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/#dfn-FileException - what should be the value of FileException.prototype.code ?
  615. # [16:59] <annevk> Hixie, yeah maybe
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  617. # [17:00] <annevk> Hixie, re tests, that testharness is something people want to use for a bunch of tests; and I know 2xx needs updating :)
  618. # [17:00] <annevk> Hixie, I guess there could be more parsing tests too, feel free to add :)
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  624. # [17:16] <Hixie> annevk: the harness and php scare me :-)
  625. # [17:16] <Hixie> annevk: fr(om writing tests)
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  628. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> Hixie, jgraham would appreciate more concrete comments ;)
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  631. # [17:28] <Hixie> Ms2ger: making the external file optional would be my main suggestion
  632. # [17:28] <Hixie> Ms2ger: see my commen in webapps
  633. # [17:28] <Hixie> bbiab
  634. # [17:29] <Ms2ger> That's a lot of parent.'s
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  791. # Session Close: Sat Feb 26 00:00:00 2011

The end :)