/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-03-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Mar 12 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:22] * hober reads
  8. # [00:22] <hober> yeah, that doesn't make sense
  9. # [00:23] <hober> ObPollReminder: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-127-objection-poll/ closes today
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  12. # [00:43] <Hixie> TabAtkins: is there a css property for making an image be a reflection of itself? transform(mirror) or something?
  13. # [00:43] <Hixie> doesn't have to be implemented yet
  14. # [00:45] <Hixie> hm, you can give a matrix
  15. # [00:45] <Hixie> and iirc there's a matrix that'll reflect
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  17. # [00:45] <Hixie> -1 0, 0 1?
  18. # [00:46] <Hixie> or scaleX(-1)
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  20. # [00:47] <Hixie> aha!
  21. # [00:47] <Hixie> yes!
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  23. # [00:47] <zewt> <TabAtkins> np
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  25. # [01:02] <Hixie> heycam: so i'm doing the video conferencing stuff and i need to expose the current list of streams
  26. # [01:02] <Hixie> heycam: that's an array/list/set/whatever of Stream objects
  27. # [01:02] <Hixie> heycam: what's the best way of exposing that to the page? I don't mind if it's a live list
  28. # [01:02] <Hixie> or not
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  57. # [02:57] <Yuhong> So almost everybody knows how the IE6 monopoly was bad by now.
  58. # [02:57] <Yuhong> Now, how many know how the Netscape monopoly was bad?
  59. # [02:57] <Yuhong> Now, how many know remember the Netscape monopoly was bad?
  60. # [02:58] <Yuhong> Now, how many remember how the Netscape monopoly was bad?
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  72. # [03:10] <Yuhong> So almost everybody knows how the IE6 monopoly was bad by now.
  73. # [03:10] <Yuhong> Now, how many remember how the Netscape monopoly was bad?
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  174. # [13:40] <alrra> can someone explain to me how the collaboration between WHATWG and W3C works , or who to follow when it comes to the html5 spec (or what browser follow what spec) ?
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  177. # [13:46] <Ms2ger> alrra, see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#is-this-html5?
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  187. # [14:17] <alrra> Ms2ger: tnx :)
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  223. # [17:04] <jud> oogelly ol ooo gnen gtff ar ar ar entubu
  224. # [17:05] <erlehmann> u jelly?
  225. # [17:06] <jud> eerrgnff fuzzl frrezzl eeuen
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  227. # [17:07] <jud> chic bok
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  233. # [17:32] <annevk> todo list so far: write WHATWG Weekly
  234. # [17:33] * Ms2ger adds mutation events to that list
  235. # [17:34] <annevk> haha
  236. # [17:34] <annevk> I discussed them with Olli and he said he still plans on removing them
  237. # [17:34] <annevk> so I'm waiting for post Firefox 4 news
  238. # [17:35] <annevk> so I guess that will be a summer item :)
  239. # [17:35] <annevk> unless someone starts doing them before then
  240. # [17:35] <Ms2ger> Were you thinking of anybody in particular? :)
  241. # [17:36] <annevk> heh, nah I won't do that to you
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  243. # [17:40] <annevk> guess I'll quickly add that todo.txt file Hixie asked for
  244. # [17:43] <annevk> http://tc.labs.opera.com/apis/EventSource/todo.txt
  245. # [17:45] <Ms2ger> annevk, your test runner is trying to run that
  246. # [17:45] <annevk> gah
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  248. # [17:50] <annevk> hmm testrunner seems broken anyway
  249. # [17:52] <Ms2ger> No, it claims all tests fail in Gecko
  250. # [17:52] <Ms2ger> Surely that can't be true :)
  251. # [17:53] <annevk> so it does run fine in Gecko...
  252. # [17:53] <annevk> I guess it has something to do with one of the tests
  253. # [17:53] <annevk> maybe the document.domain test :/
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  261. # [18:35] <zewt> annevk: fwiw, if people really won't buy into making initEvent optional, it almost seems better to retain the no-empty-event-type restriction and to use webkit's check, avoiding adding a pointless initEvent-was-called flag
  262. # [18:35] <zewt> (mentioning it here instead of the thread since I think it'd just confuse things there at the moment)
  263. # [18:37] <annevk> agreed
  264. # [18:37] <annevk> but it seems e.g. Jacob argues for both?
  265. # [18:37] <annevk> or does not argue for anything in particular
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  267. # [18:37] <annevk> from him I mostly get the impression he doesn't like change
  268. # [18:37] <zewt> not sure with jacob since he didn't seem to know what the phrase "null string" meant
  269. # [18:37] <annevk> but not what the event model should be instead where it is currently vague
  270. # [18:38] <zewt> (he seemed to think I meant "null")
  271. # [18:38] <annevk> well he tested and null is stringified to "null" in some implementations
  272. # [18:38] <zewt> "Actually, null string has nothing to do with it. Anne has spec'd the default to be empty string, not null."
  273. # [18:38] <zewt> ^ he was confused here
  274. # [18:39] <zewt> i think
  275. # [18:39] <annevk> null string is a vague word though
  276. # [18:39] <annevk> we use empty string for that
  277. # [18:39] <annevk> s/word/term/
  278. # [18:39] <zewt> null string is pretty universally synonymous
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  280. # [18:40] <zewt> his arguments based on "interoperable" is sort of hard to buy since there's so little consistency, heh
  281. # [18:40] <annevk> http://www.google.com/search?q=null+string
  282. # [18:40] <annevk> does not seem universal
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  284. # [18:40] <annevk> though Wikipedia argues that way
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  286. # [18:40] <zewt> i've used the term for 15 years and never seen anyone get confused by it before :P
  287. # [18:40] <annevk> first hit for me is "Checking a string for null or empty string - Jeff Key"
  288. # [18:40] <annevk> anyways
  289. # [18:41] <annevk> yeah agreed
  290. # [18:41] <annevk> and interoperable and magic fairies works for me
  291. # [18:41] <annevk> but then say what it should be since DOM Level 3 Events is ambiguous as hell
  292. # [18:41] <Ms2ger> I guess that's what MS likes about it :à
  293. # [18:41] <zewt> i personally don't care too much about whether type can be "" or not, if it's easier to get agreement on webkit's behavior and not allowing it then that's equally fine with me
  294. # [18:41] <Ms2ger> :)
  295. # [18:42] <Philip`> const char* str = NULL; // null string
  296. # [18:42] <zewt> firefox just seems sort of broken ... accessing e.type before calling initEvent throws, and dispatchEvent(createEvent()) does nothing whatsoever afaict
  297. # [18:43] <zewt> no, that's null, not the null string
  298. # [18:43] <Philip`> 'str' is a string, and it's null
  299. # [18:43] <Philip`> so it's a null string :-)
  300. # [18:43] <annevk> omg make it stop
  301. # [18:44] <zewt> i disagree but let's move on :P
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  304. # [18:45] <annevk> anyway, unless this is somehow magically resolved by Monday Ms2ger will have to make edits or I'll pick this up again end of June
  305. # [18:45] <zewt> personally I think having as simple a spec as possible is also more important here than with most cases
  306. # [18:45] <annevk> I hear standards move at a glacial pace, so there's no rush
  307. # [18:45] <smaug____> removing Mutation events is something for next year, at earliest
  308. # [18:46] <zewt> since this is such a major, core algorithm and getting rid of totally unneeded steps means it's easier for users to fully understand it
  309. # [18:46] <Ms2ger> zewt, you must be new here ;)
  310. # [18:46] <zewt> not new to algorithms :P
  311. # [18:46] <annevk> smaug____, seems fine to me
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  347. # [21:43] <nimbupani> TabAtkins: you are both live-minuting in different channels?
  348. # [21:45] <Hixie> oh it's sxsw today right?
  349. # [21:45] <Hixie> anything interesting going on?
  350. # [21:46] <nimbupani> TabAtkins: is apparently live-minuting some session but I am not sure where :P
  351. # [21:47] * Joins: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-pribrasgw1-ff17c300-80.dhcp.inet.fi)
  352. # [21:47] <nimbupani> o found it its #scificities
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  372. # [22:20] <Iarfen> Hi!!
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  397. # [23:51] <hober> Hixie: I think the browser wars panel was today
  398. # [23:51] <hober> Hixie: I know the CSS WG panel was today
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  404. # Session Close: Sun Mar 13 00:00:00 2011

The end :)