/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-03-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Mar 13 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  13. # [00:24] <Hixie> hober: anything interesting happen?
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  24. # [00:40] <hober> Hixie: dunno, not there
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  149. # [14:23] <eyebrows> I guess the guy who came up with 0.5 pixel measurements for canvas strokes left his logic at the door too
  150. # [14:23] <eyebrows> I mean, really
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  204. # [18:44] <AryehGregor> Heh: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2011Mar/0015.html
  205. # [18:45] <AryehGregor> So, Hixie, what are these "many browsers" that don't render tables incrementally?
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  208. # [19:03] <zewt> http://kathack.com/ probably old but o_O
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  234. # [20:55] <Hixie> AryehGregor: hm?
  235. # [20:56] <AryehGregor> Hixie, browsers render tables incrementally, don't they? Or did you just mean they have to reflow them?
  236. # [20:56] <Hixie> it varies
  237. # [20:56] <AryehGregor> How so?
  238. # [20:57] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@c-24-128-79-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
  239. # [20:57] <Hixie> hold on, let me get you a test
  240. # [21:01] <Hixie> hrm, how do i turn off deflate compression
  241. # [21:03] * Quits: frozenicce (~deppo@ip-88-153-119-69.unitymediagroup.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  242. # [21:06] <zewt> some htaccess magic?
  243. # [21:09] <zewt> in apache .htaccess, SetEnv no-gzip
  244. # [21:12] <Hixie> oooh
  245. # [21:12] <Hixie> cunning
  246. # [21:15] <Hixie> even with that the server is still returning the file back in one block, bummer
  247. # [21:16] <erlehmann> Hixie, what are you trying to accomplish?
  248. # [21:16] <zewt> see if <? sleep(2) ?> in php causes it to send incrementally (or if it just blocks)
  249. # [21:16] <Hixie> have the server return cells with a one second pause between them
  250. # [21:16] <Hixie> using perl
  251. # [21:16] <zewt> or just stuff a bunch of whitespace to convince it to send some
  252. # [21:17] <Hixie> i'm stuffing 1024 'x's between each cell
  253. # [21:17] <Hixie> 4096 even
  254. # [21:17] <Hixie> that really should be enough
  255. # [21:17] <Hixie> even 40960 isn't enough
  256. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> Are you sure you're flushing the output buffer when you pause?
  257. # [21:17] <zewt> is apache just waiting for the whole thing so it can send content-length?
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  259. # [21:18] <zewt> not sure how to force chunked
  260. # [21:19] <zewt> curl: (56) Received problem 2 in the chunky parser
  261. # [21:19] <zewt> chunky parser? sounds delicious
  262. # [21:19] <Hixie> AryehGregor: i'm outputting 40K of content before sleeping, if that doesn't force it i don't know what will
  263. # [21:19] <AryehGregor> Maybe it will buffer indefinitely unless you explicitly flush the buffer.
  264. # [21:20] <Hixie> how do i flush the buffer?
  265. # [21:20] <AryehGregor> I don't know. In PHP with ob, it's ob_flush().
  266. # [21:20] <zewt> ah php switches to chunked automatically if you call flush()
  267. # [21:20] <AryehGregor> Without ob I guess it's flush().
  268. # [21:21] <zewt> Hixie: this works for me in PHP, anyway http://pastebin.com/NUBf9tCq
  269. # [21:21] <zewt> don't know about perl
  270. # [21:21] <zewt> no padding needed
  271. # [21:21] <Hixie> well i have perl's autoflush mode enabled
  272. # [21:21] <Hixie> i don't know what's up
  273. # [21:21] <Philip`> If it's CGI, there's use IO::Handle; STDOUT->flush;
  274. # [21:22] * Philip` doesn't know what buffering Apache does
  275. # [21:22] <zewt> i'd imagine that unless you actually somehow tell it to, it won't turn on chunked (in php, calling flush() is also telling it to do that)
  276. # [21:22] <Hixie> tried that too, with no success
  277. # [21:22] <Hixie> oh well
  278. # [21:22] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
  279. # [21:22] <heycam> jgraham, just by following http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#es-exception-hasinstance it seems to require that to be true [exception instanceof other_window.DOMException]
  280. # [21:22] <zewt> http://zewt.org/~glenn/delay.php
  281. # [21:23] <heycam> jgraham, but the spec doesn't really deal with multiple globals specifically...
  282. # [21:24] <heycam> jgraham, if you think "instanceof"s like this (and `node instanceof other_window.Node`) should be returning false, let me know
  283. # [21:24] <heycam> jgraham, (probably they should be returning false, since that's what'd happen with say `myObj instanceof other_window.Object`)
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  287. # [21:35] <AryehGregor> Who would be a good Mozilla person to ask about execCommand()?
  288. # [21:36] * Joins: cpearce (~chatzilla@203-97-204-82.dsl.clear.net.nz)
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  291. # [21:38] <AryehGregor> roc, smaug____, volkmar, do any of you know who a good Mozilla person is to ask for feedback about my execCommand() spec?
  292. # [21:38] <roc> ehsan
  293. # [21:38] <volkmar> AryehGregor: ehsan i think
  294. # [21:38] <AryehGregor> Okay, thanks.
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  297. # [21:43] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: Email hallvord for anything frm an Opera POV, FWIW
  298. # [21:43] <AryehGregor> gsnedders, okay, I'll CC him too.
  299. # [21:44] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@adsl-75-36-189-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  300. # [21:44] <AryehGregor> Thanks.
  301. # [21:44] <gsnedders> *from
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  303. # [21:50] <AryehGregor> Okay, e-mail sent.
  304. # [21:50] <AryehGregor> anolis --dump-xrefs intermediate.html /tmp/spec is hanging, by the way.
  305. # [21:51] <AryehGregor> http://pastebin.com/3rJJkWcY
  306. # [21:51] <AryehGregor> Just freezes there forever.
  307. # [21:51] * AryehGregor tries updating it
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  310. # [21:52] <AryehGregor> Nope, still hangs.
  311. # [21:52] <AryehGregor> It's Ms2ger's hacked version.
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  315. # [22:03] <erlehmann> I believe this is old news for almost all of you, but can someone tell me if that is a practical joke? <http://whyfirefoxisblocked.com/>
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  318. # [22:08] <Hixie> it was intended seriously (back in the mid 200s)
  319. # [22:09] <Hixie> however it was seriously misguided then and remains so now :-)
  320. # [22:09] * Joins: FastJack (~fastjack@dumpstr.net)
  321. # [22:10] <Hixie> mid 2000s even
  322. # [22:12] <erlehmann> Hixie, I stand confused from the logic: “Too few visitors are viewing my ads, so I'm blocking everyone – even the 95% without an ad blocker from viewing my page (and, by extension, my ads).”
  323. # [22:13] <Hixie> it's even worse than that
  324. # [22:13] <erlehmann> This seems like one of these shows making fun of bureaucrats … ON THE INTERNET.
  325. # [22:13] <Hixie> the people _with_ ad blockers have the ability to work around the block, so they still see the content
  326. # [22:13] <Hixie> the people _without_ ad blockers learn about them
  327. # [22:14] <erlehmann> Oh wow. m(
  328. # [22:15] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@adsl-76-228-82-246.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  329. # [22:15] <zewt> the mid 200s? yeah i guess 1800 years ago this might have passed for rational thought :)
  330. # [22:16] <zewt> that's pretty high comedy--"too few people click my ads, so I need to reduce it further"
  331. # [22:17] <zewt> i'm honestly surprised there's as little ad-blocker-blocking in the wild as there is; it's not like there's a shortage of people with such bad judgement
  332. # [22:18] <zewt> i'm similarly surprised there's very little effort to try to make ads that can't be blocked; it's an arms race that ad blockers would ultimately lose
  333. # [22:21] <Hixie> most people don't mind ads
  334. # [22:21] <erlehmann> zewt, how do you know they haven't already lost? ;)
  335. # [22:21] * Quits: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  336. # [22:21] <zewt> erlehmann: largely because I almost never see ads :)
  337. # [22:21] <Hixie> imho ads are fine so long as they are (a) useful and relevant and (b) not actually blocking the content or annoying
  338. # [22:21] <erlehmann> dito here.
  339. # [22:22] <erlehmann> zewt, parsed sentence wrong: thought ad blockers would win and ad companies would lose.
  340. # [22:22] <Hixie> (interstitial and preroll ads on big blogs and in video streams drive me crazy)
  341. # [22:22] <zewt> Hixie: sure, but a whole lot of ads are neither of those things :)
  342. # [22:22] <Hixie> yeah
  343. # [22:23] <erlehmann> Well, relevant content is relevant.
  344. # [22:23] <zewt> there are plenty of ads and ad providers who just want to spam banners everywhere they can--it's that sort I'm surprised aren't trying harder to thwart blockers
  345. # [22:24] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  346. # [22:24] <erlehmann> I consider ad blockers as a tool to skew the signal-to-noise-ratio in my favor – they are not the only ones, I once wrote a userscript utilizing LZW compression to remove repetitive spammy comments from my view of an imageboard.
  347. # [22:24] * Joins: workmad3 (~workmad3@cpc3-bagu10-0-0-cust651.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  348. # [22:24] <erlehmann> It was funny when I realized it also blocked legit comments that were just not that interesting due to repetitive style.
  349. # [22:25] <Hixie> what's sad is that relevant and useful ads make so much more money than irrelevant and annoying ads, it makes you wonder why people keep on using the annoying ones
  350. # [22:25] <zewt> not every type of site has ads that are really relevant to it, though
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  352. # [22:26] <zewt> if you're reviewing graphics cards then it's easy; if you're blogging about earthquakes in japan, not so much
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  357. # [22:28] <erlehmann> Anyone having usable CSS for @cite? I'm currently using this: blockquote::after { content: "<" attr(cite) ">"; }
  358. # [22:28] <erlehmann> should probably be blockquote[cite]::after
  359. # [22:28] <wilhelm> zewt: CNN at least tries to be relevant: http://i.imgur.com/GTNjf.png :P
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  363. # [22:37] <erlehmann> wilhelm, could be worse. At least 4chan is not displaying fake ads for “S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Fukushima”.
  364. # [22:37] <erlehmann> (but given the puddi disaster, that may happen)
  365. # [22:38] <erlehmann> btw, adblock was extremely useful against puddi
  366. # [22:39] <erlehmann> oh wait, the puddi video was an ad. so obvious it hurts.
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  382. # [23:26] <AryehGregor> How did I not think to test whitespace stripping in my reflection tests?
  383. # [23:26] <AryehGregor> I'll have to fix that.
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  388. # [23:37] <AryehGregor> I'm mildly amused when I see people who use complicated jQuery stuff when they could use much simpler built-in features.
  389. # [23:37] <AryehGregor> Like: var tabIndex = parseInt( $(this).attr( 'tabindex' ), 10 );
  390. # [23:37] <AryehGregor> Instead of, let's say: var tabIndex = this.tabIndex;
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  392. # [23:48] <erlehmann> wat
  393. # Session Close: Mon Mar 14 00:00:00 2011

The end :)