/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-04-23 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Apr 23 00:00:01 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <TabAtkins> Maybe he got it from PZ Myers?
  4. # [00:00] <TabAtkins> Hixie: aetheist: Someone who doesn't believe in the luminiferous aether.
  5. # [00:01] <Hixie> wait wait hold on, i just realised what AryehGregor said about his synagogue
  6. # [00:01] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins, that should be an aaetheist.
  7. # [00:01] <Hixie> AryehGregor: you'd rather have someone who has a vicious and irrational hatred for blind people than a blind person? :-P
  8. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> AryehGregor: If I wasn't trying for a pun, sure.
  9. # [00:01] <AryehGregor> An aetheist should be someone who *does* believe in the lumiferous aether.
  10. # [00:02] <AryehGregor> Hixie, no, but maybe my scenario is true and yours isn't. I mean, we're not going to turn away members just because they have a vicious and irrational hatred of blind people, are we? They can still pray here.
  11. # [00:02] <Hixie> AryehGregor: your synagogue, your rules. :-)
  12. # [00:02] <Hixie> AryehGregor: i know which i'd rather have in my community though :-)
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  14. # [00:02] <Hixie> and it ain't the hater :-)
  15. # [00:03] <AryehGregor> But what if a blind-person-hater views the website, and no blind person does? Then we'd lose the blind-person-hater and gain nothing.
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  17. # [00:03] <AryehGregor> I mean, my point was just that hypothetical scenarios are useless here unless you realistically evaluate their likelihood.
  18. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> You've got to weigh cost against benefit, not just demonstrate that there is some benefit in principle.
  19. # [00:04] <AryehGregor> Because there's also some cost, and you have to evaluate that too.
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  21. # [00:05] <AryehGregor> (it should also be mentioned that my synagogue is tiny and dying, so the possibility of attracting any new members at all is kind of marginal)
  22. # [00:07] <othermaciej> AryehGregor: in the physical world, there are different standards of accommodation required for public facilities and large businesses vs. private facilities and small businesses
  23. # [00:07] <othermaciej> for example, if you build a multi-story apartment building, it must have an elevator; but it's not legally required that every private home has to have an elevator
  24. # [00:07] <othermaciej> or even a ramp, if it has front steps
  25. # [00:08] <AryehGregor> On the other hand, in web standards, no distinction is drawn, and all pages are required to have things like alt attributes.
  26. # [00:08] <AryehGregor> Which I don't necessarily object to as a policy measure.
  27. # [00:08] <othermaciej> I tend to think this logic should apply to the Web as well - Amazon is clearly a public accommodation just like a brick and mortar Barnes & Noble store, but a private person's photo blog is not
  28. # [00:08] <AryehGregor> But I have an issue with people who seem to assume that anything non-accessible is morally wrong.
  29. # [00:09] <othermaciej> but on the other hand, in the electronic world, the cost of accommodation is generally lower
  30. # [00:09] <AryehGregor> Even proportionally?
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  32. # [00:09] <AryehGregor> It's much more expensive to build a ramp than to add alt text, but it's also much more expensive to build a building than to put up photos on Flickr.
  33. # [00:09] <AryehGregor> If you're uploading a bunch of photos from your camera without annotating them, adding alt text would actually be much more expensive than the act of uploading itself.
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  35. # [00:10] <AryehGregor> Whereas I assume few to no physical accessibility measures come close in cost to the total cost of construction.
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  37. # [00:11] <AryehGregor> (unless perhaps your building is grandfathered in and a legal obligation to provide accessibility is triggered by renovations, or something)
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  40. # [00:11] <othermaciej> cost of private construction, at least in the US, is often dominated by one form or another of regulatory costs
  41. # [00:11] <AryehGregor> Yeah, but most of that is things like safety codes, not accessibility requirements.
  42. # [00:11] <AryehGregor> At least as far as I know (which is not very far).
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  44. # [00:17] <othermaciej> building codes, and in some cases getting the needed permits
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  58. # [01:00] <Anon226> Hi
  59. # [01:01] <Anon226> ...
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  62. # [01:06] <TabAtkins> Damn, I actually spent a little bit of time finding a page that explained why you should just ask your question.
  63. # [01:07] <TabAtkins> And now the Anon's up and left.
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  118. # [05:14] <jacobolus> who was it I was talking to about canvas wrappers? Philip` maybe? I hadn't realized there's a nice wiki page listing them over here https://github.com/bebraw/jswiki/wiki/Canvas-wrappers
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  293. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: you around?
  294. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> or jgraham
  295. # [18:14] <MikeSmith> I wanted to ask what anolis options http://pimpmyspec.net/ uses
  296. # [18:14] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@nat/google/x-yzxsadbidmzuqkki) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  297. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> I'm trying to figure out what causes the bug in http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12539
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  301. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> it seems to happens for me in my environment both when I use anolis and the spec-splitter
  302. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> but afaict happens for Hixie 's spec build only for the spec-splitter part
  303. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> but not the anolis / pimpmyspec part
  304. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> which makes me wonder if it has something to do with what options get fed to anolis and splitter
  305. # [18:18] <MikeSmith> and so, what different python libraries it might be using, based on those options
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  310. # [18:23] * MikeSmith wonders who Masatoshi Kimura is and if he's ever met him
  311. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> huh
  312. # [18:24] <MikeSmith> Mozilla committer?
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  315. # [18:32] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: ask jgraham
  316. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> hai
  317. # [18:33] <MikeSmith> gsnedders: btw, you're a glasgow native, right?
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  322. # [18:37] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: No, from St Andrews
  323. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> ah
  324. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> that explains things
  325. # [18:37] <MikeSmith> I can actually understand you when you speak
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  332. # [18:58] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Heh. If I switch to speaking Scots, I don't think that will make much difference.
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  335. # [19:01] <MikeSmith> well, I'm not complaining
  336. # [19:02] * Quits: KaOSoFt (~KaOSoFt@unaffiliated/kaosoft) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  337. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> but if you switched to speaking like Sammy in "How late it was, how late", that would be Ok by me
  338. # [19:02] <MikeSmith> James Kelman, man
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  340. # [19:03] <MikeSmith> I don't know why I never read any of his books before now
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  426. # Session Close: Sun Apr 24 00:00:00 2011

The end :)