/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-05-23 / end

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  119. # [09:30] <hsivonen> did the LC poll reach quorum?
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  123. # [09:40] <abarth> hsivonen: i think i've lost my ability to vote
  124. # [09:40] <zcorpan> abarth: the poll closed yesterday
  125. # [09:41] <abarth> (i was more explaining why I didn't participate)
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  127. # [09:47] <zcorpan> hsivonen: do you have a clue as to how a questionmark appeared as favicon for your feed in my feedreader?
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  133. # [09:55] <hsivonen> zcorpan: is your browser your feed reader?
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  135. # [10:03] <zcorpan> hsivonen: yep, opera
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  141. # [10:17] <hsivonen> zcorpan: could it be that you looked at my rel="shortcut icon" test cases and Opera decided to use the favicon declared in those files for any other URLs from hsivonen.iki.fi that don't have an explicit favicon?
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  143. # [10:18] <zcorpan> hsivonen: it's indeed that icon. but opera doesn't show that icon when browsing your site, just the feed. weird
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  157. # [10:50] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: the poll did reach quorum, yeah
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  163. # [11:10] <zcorpan> MikeSmith: for all documents?
  164. # [11:12] <zcorpan> heycam|away: wait what happened with sequence<T> and MessagePortArray?
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  183. # [11:55] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: yeah, for all documents
  184. # [11:55] <MikeSmith> as far as I can tell
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  193. # [12:26] <MikeSmith> any opinions on whether it would be a good idea to set up a mailbot that would automatically create HTML5 spec bugs from new messages posted to the public-html-comments list?
  194. # [12:26] <MikeSmith> that is, non-reply messages
  195. # [12:26] <Ms2ger> Hmm
  196. # [12:27] <MikeSmith> I can't see that it would be much of a problem as far as risk of malicious spam
  197. # [12:27] <MikeSmith> certainly not more than the current comment form
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  199. # [12:28] <MikeSmith> because to post to that list, users basically need to first do the archive-approval step
  200. # [12:29] <MikeSmith> which essentially also works as an authentication mechanism to verify that they aren't spoofing an e-mail address
  201. # [12:30] <MikeSmith> the main problem I'd see is that some messages posted to that list may not actually be intended as comments
  202. # [12:30] <MikeSmith> but for those, it'd be easy enough to just move them to resolved-invalid
  203. # [12:31] <MikeSmith> so I guess it's a question of how much of them would be of that type
  204. # [12:31] <MikeSmith> what the signal-to-noise ratio would be
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  206. # [12:32] <Ms2ger> I think there's little enough traffic to try it
  207. # [12:32] <MikeSmith> OK
  208. # [12:33] <MikeSmith> I can mess around with setting something up
  209. # [12:34] <MikeSmith> hmm
  210. # [12:34] <MikeSmith> as long as I'm not misunderstanding you
  211. # [12:34] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: did you mean you think it's worth trying, or not worth trying?
  212. # [12:35] <Ms2ger> Worth trying
  213. # [12:35] <MikeSmith> ok
  214. # [12:35] <MikeSmith> thanks
  215. # [12:37] <MikeSmith> http://vkontakte.ru/photo63802_263023722?all=1
  216. # [12:38] <Ms2ger> I do!
  217. # [12:40] <MikeSmith> heh
  218. # [12:41] <MikeSmith> I speak pidgin Javascript
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  231. # [13:48] <_bga> gsnedders are you here?
  232. # [13:54] <gsnedders> _bga: yes
  233. # [13:55] <_bga> what proseccors is supported by carakan
  234. # [13:55] <_bga> i mean jit
  235. # [13:55] <_bga> only x86?
  236. # [13:57] <gsnedders> x86, x86_64, and ARM.
  237. # [13:58] <_bga> what about jvm bytecode?
  238. # [13:58] <_bga> as rhino
  239. # [13:58] <gsnedders> (Well, x86 with x87 (though this has never been shipped), x86 with SSE2, x86_64, ARM with/without VFP)
  240. # [13:58] <gsnedders> _bga: Why would we?
  241. # [13:59] <_bga> opera mobile
  242. # [13:59] <gsnedders> _bga: Opera Mobile is C++
  243. # [14:01] <_bga> i thought its java
  244. # [14:01] <_bga> ok
  245. # [14:01] <gsnedders> _bga: We don't have two separate web browsers here.
  246. # [14:02] <_bga> only opera mini is java based?
  247. # [14:02] <Philip`> (So on x86 without SSE2 it'll disable the JIT entirely?)
  248. # [14:03] <gsnedders> Philip`: (Yeah)
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  250. # [14:03] <gsnedders> _bga: Mini is just a thin-client, Presto runs on server.
  251. # [14:03] <_bga> understand
  252. # [14:04] <Philip`> (That seems unfortunate for some percents of users)
  253. # [14:05] <gsnedders> Philip`: (Everyone, except Chrome which just refuses to run, does that.)
  254. # [14:06] <gsnedders> Philip`: (And x86/x87 would effectively be yet another arch to support, maybe it'll be finished some day…)
  255. # [14:07] * Philip` knows SpiderMonkey has x87 JIT but has no idea if/how it's exposed via the browser
  256. # [14:08] <gsnedders> Philip`: It does?
  257. # [14:08] * Philip` knows because it had bugs that broke his SpiderMonkey-embedding game for non-SSE2 users :-(
  258. # [14:08] <gsnedders> Philip`: Are you sure it was doing that and not just using x87 for doubles in the interpreter?
  259. # [14:09] <_bga> i see superh is another popular processor
  260. # [14:09] <_bga> jscore and sm support it
  261. # [14:09] <Philip`> nanojit/Nativei386.cpp has paths for "if (!_config.i386_sse2)" etc
  262. # [14:10] <gsnedders> Philip`: Heh, I thought it didn't. JSC certainly doesn't.
  263. # [14:11] <gsnedders> _bga: SuperH seems to be being used less and less
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  305. # [16:11] <hsivonen> TabAtkins: you wondered about double line breaks when copying from View Source
  306. # [16:11] <hsivonen> TabAtkins: double line breaks appear where a pre ends and a new one starts
  307. # [16:12] <hsivonen> TabAtkins: since pre serializes as a block, there's an extra line break
  308. # [16:13] <hsivonen> TabAtkins: there are multiple pre elements, because that way the bidi algorithm runs on smaller chunks
  309. # [16:13] <hsivonen> TabAtkins: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=649613
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  336. # [17:30] <TabAtkins> hsivonen: Ah, that makes sense. Cool.
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  344. # [17:43] * jgraham wonders who exactly the people demanding more ways to submit LC feedback expect to build the system they are demanding
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  346. # [17:44] * jgraham suggests that the WG would be rather happy to adopt a system they build that meets their requirements
  347. # [17:44] <jgraham> In fact it really wouldn't require anyone to adopt anything
  348. # [17:44] <jgraham> It would just exist
  349. # [17:45] <jgraham> It could be linked to from useful places of course
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  377. # [18:32] <beowulf> anyone any ideas on how I could determine the zoom level (window.innerWidth/screen.width) of a webpage on a handheld device that wasn't reporting innerWidth correctly? the device is a samsung galaxy s
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  380. # [18:37] <bga_> beowulf <span style="font-size: 1em">a</span> trick?
  381. # [18:38] <beowulf> bga_: will try that
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  392. # [18:58] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I'm trying to figure out what part of the validator.nu schema allows data-* attributes
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  410. # [19:39] <AryehGregor> What's a good reference for using @font-face in practice, like all the gotchas you need to be aware of? People are discussing it on wikitech-l.
  411. # [19:41] <miketaylr> paul_irish has a post or two
  412. # [19:41] <AryehGregor> Ooh, Firefox 4.0 has an XSS filter that relies on a modal prompt to determine whether you can continue. :(
  413. # [19:42] <AryehGregor> "Load contents passed in the query part? The contents may contain malicious scripts.
  414. # [19:42] <AryehGregor> Continue only if you're aware that this may trigger a XSS attack and the author of this page does not take any responsibility for loading this contents"
  415. # [19:42] <AryehGregor> (I assume that's part of Firefox, dunno where else it could have come from)
  416. # [19:42] <miketaylr> http://paulirish.com/2010/font-face-gotchas/
  417. # [19:42] <Rik`> AryehGregor: I don't think that's part of Firefox 4
  418. # [19:43] <Rik`> AryehGregor: or maybe it's CSP in action ?
  419. # [19:43] <AryehGregor> Then where could it have come from?
  420. # [19:43] * AryehGregor can't give the name of the site, since it seems like it's supposed to be private)
  421. # [19:43] <AryehGregor> s/\)$//
  422. # [19:43] <Philip`> An XSS protection script in the page itself?
  423. # [19:44] * Philip` doubts Firefox would have UI with such bad grammar, or that expects users to understand what "XSS" means
  424. # [19:45] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: data-* is a pre-schema filter, IIRC
  425. # [19:45] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: ah
  426. # [19:45] <AryehGregor> It only triggered in Firefox.
  427. # [19:45] <AryehGregor> Maybe some kind of extension or something.
  428. # [19:45] <Philip`> A non-portable XSS protection script in the page itself?
  429. # [19:46] <AryehGregor> Maybe. :P
  430. # [19:46] <Philip`> NoScript?
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  432. # [19:48] <ako> In IE6-8, using createStyleSheet and then setting styleElem.styleSheet.cssText to a text value that includes a @font-face declaration going into will crash IE6-8.
  433. # [19:48] <ako> sweet
  434. # [19:48] <AryehGregor> The only extension I have active is Firebug 1.7.1.
  435. # [19:49] <ako> hope they un-break ctrl+shift+c soon
  436. # [19:49] * MikeSmith finds util/classes/nu/validator/xml/dataattributes/DataAttributeDroppingContentHandlerWrapper.java
  437. # [19:51] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: wondered how you did that. :) nice
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  441. # [19:52] <MikeSmith> good thing there are no special restrictions on the values of data-* attributes
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  450. # [20:16] <AryehGregor> Does Opera not support <wbr>? data:text/html,<!doctype html><div style="width:1em;border:1px solid black">a<wbr>b<wbr>c</div>
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  488. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> What's a normal sort of resolution for a high-res image used in printing?
  489. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> (I want something reasonable for this example I'm writing.)
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  491. # [21:42] <zcorpan> 300dpi?
  492. # [21:42] <TabAtkins> That's pretty much what I was thinking. kk.
  493. # [21:43] <gsnedders> 300dpi is the low end, FWIW
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  495. # [21:45] <Philip`> Seems to depend somewhat on how the printer works - if it's doing colours by dithering then it probably needs higher print resolution than the original image resolution
  496. # [21:46] <TabAtkins> 300dpi works for the example, which is just to demonstrate how you can use 'image-resolution' to embed a high-res image into a page so it looks good both on-screen and in print.
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  498. # [21:51] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  499. # [21:55] <heycam> zcorpan, it sounds like MessagePortArray should be a read only array (http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#dfn-read-only-array) instead of a sequence, since you don't want a new object being created every time you access the property
  500. # [21:55] <heycam> zcorpan, but I'll reply on the list later this morning once I've woken up
  501. # [21:59] <zcorpan> heycam: ok
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  503. # [22:00] <Hixie> didn't we already talk about that and didn't i already fix it?
  504. # [22:00] <Hixie> or was that something else that i fixed
  505. # [22:00] <Hixie> hm
  506. # [22:01] <TabAtkins> If only you had some sort of history of your revisions that you could search for this sort of thing.
  507. # [22:01] <heycam> it's quite possible MessagePortArray was the reason that bug was filed in the first place -- at least, there was something that was in html you suggested removing sequence attributes because of
  508. # [22:02] <Hixie> i think it was some microdata thing
  509. # [22:02] <Hixie> i guess i missed this one
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  533. # [22:45] <aho> TabAtkins, wouldnt some CC licensed icons work?
  534. # [22:46] <aho> well, you can always just go with triangle, square, dot, circle :>
  535. # [22:46] <TabAtkins> aho: For my twitter post? Sure. But I'm just building my own right now.
  536. # [22:46] * Joins: gavin___ (~gavin@people.mozilla.com)
  537. # [22:46] <aho> http://kaioa.com/k/test/svgsprites/index.html
  538. # [22:46] <aho> works for me ;>
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  540. # [22:49] <aho> http://youtu.be/IPwCH8WQ8Qo <- webkit's input type=color thingy
  541. # [22:49] <aho> interesting that they added a color picker
  542. # [22:50] <aho> eh.. some pipette thingy
  543. # [22:53] <Hixie> ok i fixed that CORS thing from last week
  544. # [22:53] <Hixie> anything else urgent for me to work on?
  545. # [22:53] * Parts: shichuan (~Shi_Chuan@cm182.eta124.maxonline.com.sg)
  546. # [22:53] <Hixie> or should i go back to the regular pile of feedback
  547. # [22:54] <Hixie> dglazkov: yt?
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  549. # [22:54] <dglazkov> Hixie: I certainly am
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  551. # [22:54] <Hixie> dglazkov: re the scoped thing, keep in mind that there's more to scoping <style> than just scoping the selectors. For example, @font-face rules have to not leak to the outer scope.
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  554. # [22:55] <Hixie> dglazkov: otherwise, someone who is syndicating content that gets scoped elsewhere could screw around with the font of the whole page
  555. # [22:55] <dglazkov> Hixie: oh. where do I read about this?
  556. # [22:55] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@2620:101:8003:200:226:bbff:fe05:3fe1)
  557. # [22:55] <Hixie> dglazkov: "For scoped CSS resources, the effect of @-rules must be scoped to the scoped sheet and its subresources, even if the @-rule in question would ordinarily apply to all style sheets that affect the Document. Any '@page' rules in scoped CSS resources must be ignored."
  558. # [22:55] <zcorpan> Hixie: there were some bugs about cross-origin
  559. # [22:55] * Quits: aho (~nya@fuld-590c7589.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  560. # [22:56] <Hixie> dglazkov: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete.html#attr-style-scoped
  561. # [22:56] <Hixie> zcorpan: ah, let me check those out
  562. # [22:56] <dglazkov> Hixie: awesome
  563. # [22:56] <dglazkov> throw it on the bug
  564. # [22:56] <Hixie> dglazkov: i deleted the bugmail, do you recall the number?
  565. # [22:57] <dglazkov> Hixie: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49142
  566. # [22:58] <Ms2ger> Hixie, http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12724 maybe? :)
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  570. # [23:04] <Hixie> Ms2ger: that is like the _definition_ of not urgent. :-P
  571. # [23:04] <Ms2ger> :)
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  573. # [23:07] * Hixie comments in the other bug to suggest it be changed to be the other way around
  574. # [23:07] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Quit: leaving)
  575. # [23:10] <zcorpan> everyone, bring paint for the bikeshed http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12679
  576. # [23:11] <Hixie> :-)
  577. # [23:11] <Hixie> zcorpan: i only found three bugs including that one
  578. # [23:12] <Hixie> zcorpan: let me know if i missed any
  579. # [23:12] <Philip`> Surely it should be "xorigin"
  580. # [23:12] <Hixie> you're supposed to put the paint on the shed, not sniff it
  581. # [23:13] <zcorpan> Philip`: not xdomain?
  582. # [23:13] <TabAtkins> ×origin
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  584. # [23:13] <TabAtkins> We should embrace unicode!
  585. # [23:13] <zewt> nandigin
  586. # [23:13] <Hixie> maybe xoxoxo="" would make the spec more approachable to teen girls?
  587. # [23:13] <TabAtkins> ✝origin
  588. # [23:14] <Hixie> has to be ascii
  589. # [23:14] <TabAtkins> Bah.
  590. # [23:14] <Philip`> "xs", as in XSS
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  595. # [23:17] <Philip`> zcorpan: Consistency with XDomainRequest is a good argument in favour of that
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  597. # [23:17] <zcorpan> Hixie: iirc jgraham made the case that http-equiv and accept-charset are legacy and data-* and aria-* use hyphen because they are different to "normal" attributes
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  599. # [23:18] <Hixie> cross-origin: tomorrow's legacy, today!
  600. # [23:20] <zcorpan> Hixie: people will go "why did Hixie not use a hyphen in formnovalidate but used a hyphen in cross-origin?"
  601. # [23:20] <Hixie> dude, HTML's attributes have every manner of quirks and idiosyncracies
  602. # [23:21] <zcorpan> so?
  603. # [23:21] <Hixie> anyone looking for logic in the naming scheme there has already embarked on a fool's errand long before i come along
  604. # [23:22] <Hixie> (you're going to win this argument, i'm just stalling for time because i'm editing another e-mail at the moment)
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  606. # [23:23] <TabAtkins> Well, I went ahead and pushed zcorpan's argument into the bug, so you can agree with it there. ^_^
  607. # [23:23] <zcorpan> heh
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  612. # [23:32] <gsnedders> Hixie: (you know how to win arguments and write emails quickly, I see)
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  614. # [23:33] <Hixie> hm?
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  619. # [23:43] <zcorpan> Hixie: the dfn bug is a result of id renaming and putting id on span/dfn in the heading
  620. # [23:43] <zcorpan> Hixie: which also makes the status box misaligned in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/the-iframe-element.html#the-video-element
  621. # [23:44] <Hixie> ah
  622. # [23:44] <Hixie> bummer
  623. # [23:44] <Hixie> any suggestions on how to fix it?
  624. # [23:44] <Hixie> i could tweak the database i guess
  625. # [23:44] <zcorpan> ...that's what i was going to suggest :)
  626. # [23:44] <Hixie> that's a pain
  627. # [23:44] <Hixie> wanna do it? :-)
  628. # [23:45] <zcorpan> no :)
  629. # [23:45] <Hixie> anyone else want to poke at the mysql database behind the status boxes? :-)
  630. # [23:45] <zcorpan> you could implement UI to change the id for the boxes
  631. # [23:45] <zcorpan> if that's less painful
  632. # [23:45] <Hixie> yeah i'll get right on that as soon as i've finished dealing with this feedback
  633. # [23:46] <Hixie> only 1931 e-mails left
  634. # [23:46] <zcorpan> okie dokie
  635. # [23:46] <Hixie> (if anyone does want to fix this let me know and i'll send you the username/password to the mysql box)
  636. # [23:48] * zcorpan adds crossorigin to html-elements
  637. # [23:49] <Hixie> ifette: is websockets ready for the api update?
  638. # [23:53] <AryehGregor> Oh, it looks like insertparagraph is meant to be basically the same as hitting Enter. Interesting.
  639. # [23:53] <AryehGregor> So I can spec that easily now, at least for non-Gecko.
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  642. # [23:55] <zcorpan> AryehGregor: makes sense (re formatblock)
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  645. # [23:59] <zcorpan> AryehGregor: what if you start with <body contenteditable></body> and do insertparagraph? opera gives two <p>s, ie and firefox just one, iirc
  646. # [23:59] <AryehGregor> zcorpan, Firefox treats insertparagraph like formatBlock with argument "p", so it's not comparable.
  647. # Session Close: Tue May 24 00:00:00 2011

The end :)