/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-06-18 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 18 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Joins: nimbu (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  4. # [00:00] * Quits: tomasf_ (~tom@194-237-176-98-no120.business.telia.com) (Quit: tomasf_)
  5. # [00:01] <zcorpan> rwaldron: got any others before i go? :)
  6. # [00:01] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  7. # [00:01] <rwaldron> nope!
  8. # [00:01] <rwaldron> but, again... thank you
  9. # [00:01] <zcorpan> bummer
  10. # [00:02] <zcorpan> np
  11. # [00:02] <rwaldron> if you didnt see above
  12. # [00:02] <rwaldron> you're time is greatly appreciated
  13. # [00:02] <zcorpan> anytime
  14. # [00:02] <rwaldron> i work on jQuery and I know how volunteer stuff goes
  15. # [00:02] <rwaldron> so i want to convey my appreciation
  16. # [00:02] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@cpe-72-184-192-77.tampabay.res.rr.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
  17. # [00:02] <rwaldron> have a good night :D
  18. # [00:02] <zcorpan> likewise :)
  19. # [00:03] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman)
  20. # [00:04] * Quits: othermaciej_ (~mjs@2620:149:f01:202:21b:63ff:fec8:7cdd) (Quit: othermaciej_)
  21. # [00:06] <zcorpan> Specification:
  22. # [00:06] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/common-microsyntaxes.html
  23. # [00:06] <zcorpan> Section: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#colors
  24. # [00:07] <zcorpan> Hixie: could you please make the comment script emit http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/common-microsyntaxes.html#colors instead of the above?
  25. # [00:07] * Quits: Hixie (~ianh@trivini.no) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  26. # [00:08] * Joins: Hixie (~ianh@trivini.no)
  27. # [00:08] <Hixie> zcorpan: the first link is the referer
  28. # [00:08] * Joins: othermaciej_ (~mjs@17.246.19.250)
  29. # [00:08] <Hixie> zcorpan: the second link is for me and is to the HTML spec or the complete.html spec with the appropriate fragid
  30. # [00:08] <zcorpan> oh
  31. # [00:08] <Hixie> zcorpan: though i might change it to just be complete.html always, since i've basically stopped using the HTML one
  32. # [00:09] <zcorpan> Hixie: could you add the fragment to the first url?
  33. # [00:12] <Hixie> what for?
  34. # [00:12] <zcorpan> i don't want to load the full spec so i need to copy-paste the fragment from the second url, click on the first one adn then paste in the fragment again
  35. # [00:13] <zcorpan> which is annoying
  36. # [00:13] <zcorpan> s/-paste//
  37. # [00:13] <Hixie> the first url is going to be the full spec often too
  38. # [00:13] <Hixie> if you just want a short-spec link version isntead i can do that, though
  39. # [00:13] * Quits: jer|afk (~jernoble@2620:149:4:401:1d25:ff59:9a1b:e2f5) (Quit: jer|afk)
  40. # [00:14] <zcorpan> yeah that'd be nice
  41. # [00:14] <AryehGregor> Yeah, please have a link to the multipage version somewhere.
  42. # [00:14] <AryehGregor> With the right fragment.
  43. # [00:14] <AryehGregor> The status quo is annoying in that respect.
  44. # [00:14] <Hixie> it'll be the one with the redirects, since i have no idea hwo to generate the full ones, is that ok?
  45. # [00:14] <zcorpan> that's fine
  46. # [00:15] <zcorpan> complete/ is fine
  47. # [00:15] <Hixie> done
  48. # [00:15] <Hixie> (untested)
  49. # [00:15] <zcorpan> thanks
  50. # [00:15] <zcorpan> everyone! file a test spam bug!
  51. # [00:15] <Hixie> nooo
  52. # [00:16] <Hixie> just find a real bug then file that!
  53. # [00:16] <Hixie> actually i have a bug to file, let me test it now
  54. # [00:18] <Hixie> ironically, the urls in question are bogus already
  55. # [00:20] <zcorpan> what's bogus?
  56. # [00:21] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.53) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  57. # [00:21] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  58. # [00:22] <Hixie> zcorpan: in the bug i just filed, the url was #generatedstream
  59. # [00:23] <zcorpan> oh and you renamed it?
  60. # [00:23] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com)
  61. # [00:24] <Hixie> yeah
  62. # [00:24] <Hixie> Stream, GeneratedStream, and StreamRecorder became MediaStream, LocalMediaStream, and MediaStreamRecorder
  63. # [00:24] <Hixie> sicking: ^
  64. # [00:25] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi)
  65. # [00:25] <zcorpan> nn
  66. # [00:25] <Hixie> nn
  67. # [00:25] * Parts: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaa13-74736162.cust.telenor.se)
  68. # [00:26] <sicking> Hixie: sweet! What format does MediaStreamRecorder record things in?
  69. # [00:27] <sicking> Hixie: and if it's an encoded format, can you set encoding parameters such as quality?
  70. # [00:27] <sicking> Hixie: to be clear, I think this is strictly an improvement. So absolutely a good thing. These questions applied before too
  71. # [00:27] <sicking> Hixie: so thanks :)
  72. # [00:27] <Hixie> that's as yet undefined, other than it must be a format supported by the local <video>. Same problem with getObjectURL() for a MediaStream and for sending data via a PeerConnection object.
  73. # [00:28] <Hixie> i'm waiting implementation experience before specifying the api for deciding the encoding parameters
  74. # [00:28] <Hixie> and i'm waiting for a miracle before specifying the codec
  75. # [00:28] <sicking> haha
  76. # [00:28] <sicking> sounds good
  77. # [00:29] <sicking> i'll be doing the swedish encoder dance to appease the encoder gods
  78. # [00:29] <Hixie> man at this point i'm willing to try anything
  79. # [00:29] <sicking> i'll fax you the steps
  80. # [00:30] * smaug____ missed all the context, but he assumes sicking has seen roc's MediaStream API
  81. # [00:31] <sicking> smaug____: i have
  82. # [00:31] * Joins: jer|afk (~jernoble@17.203.12.89)
  83. # [00:31] <roc> ah good, renaming to MediaStream was something I was going to ask for
  84. # [00:31] <rwaldron> Hixie thanks for responding to the "canplaythrough" ticket so quickly
  85. # [00:32] <rwaldron> damn shame that it was stomped on by a mozilla employee
  86. # [00:32] <rwaldron> though it was discovered in a mozilla project
  87. # [00:32] <rwaldron> and honestly...
  88. # [00:32] <Hixie> rwaldron: pure luck in this particular case, normally i go in date order but i happened to be looking at recent bugs for the cgi thing zcorpan and AryehGregor were asking me about
  89. # [00:32] * Quits: Frozen_ (~Frozen@2a01:e35:8a2f:2a60:21f:d0ff:fe53:75b2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  90. # [00:33] <Hixie> rwaldron: feel free to reopen if it needs more thought :-)
  91. # [00:33] <rwaldron> a HAVE_ENOUGH_DATA canplaythrough that fires many times is useful, but there is still no event that signifies this has happened when it happens for the first time
  92. # [00:33] <rwaldron> anyway, we've written a fallback that does what we need. so its all good
  93. # [00:33] <cpearce> rwaldron: that's pretty easy to track yourself if it matters.
  94. # [00:33] <Hixie> you can tell it happened for the first time by just keeping track of whether you've seen it or not
  95. # [00:33] <kinetik> rwaldron: "stomped on" is not a fair categorization.
  96. # [00:33] <rwaldron> cpearce yeah, aware of that and already doing so
  97. # [00:34] <rwaldron> yes. Hixie that is in fact what we're doing
  98. # [00:34] <Hixie> cool
  99. # [00:34] <rwaldron> though I'm sure that the test of time will show more then just a handful of developers being confused by this behaviour
  100. # [00:35] <rwaldron> also, keep in mind that silvia pfieffer's book actually says this fires "for the first time"
  101. # [00:35] <rwaldron> so yeah thats newly in print
  102. # [00:35] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  103. # [00:35] <rwaldron> anyone reading this will also be mislead
  104. # [00:35] <rwaldron> kinetik i'd say is.
  105. # [00:35] <rwaldron> especially considering your choice of words regarding the test case
  106. # [00:35] <cpearce> only on page 111, not on page 129. ;)
  107. # [00:36] <roc> the spec trumps the book :-)
  108. # [00:36] <rwaldron> which is perfectly valid if you you want to jump to a specific time in the media
  109. # [00:36] <rwaldron> roc i get that
  110. # [00:36] <rwaldron> but think about the average "web designer"
  111. # [00:36] <roc> I am sad that three of us are on IRC on a Saturday morning
  112. # [00:36] <rwaldron> do they read the spec?
  113. # [00:36] <cpearce> :P
  114. # [00:36] <roc> rwaldron: I do, a lot
  115. # [00:37] <rwaldron> i'd say an exception tbh
  116. # [00:37] <roc> rwaldron: if you want to help the average web developer, please lobby for bug 12267 :-)
  117. # [00:37] <roc> rwaldron: they don't, but it's incumbent on book authors to follow the spec, not the other way around
  118. # [00:37] <roc> there will be many books
  119. # [00:37] <roc> as the spec changes, books will need to be revised and updated
  120. # [00:38] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@li159-104.members.linode.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  121. # [00:38] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  122. # [00:38] <rwaldron> roc, to be clear, I completely agree
  123. # [00:38] <rwaldron> here's where I'm coming from...
  124. # [00:38] <rwaldron> I'm on the jQuery bugs team
  125. # [00:39] <rwaldron> we field ~50 tickets per day
  126. # [00:39] <rwaldron> have you seen what the lowest common denominator is writing for code?
  127. # [00:39] <roc> yes
  128. # [00:40] <roc> I have been reading Firefox bug reports for over ten years :-)
  129. # [00:40] <rwaldron> cool, so you see where I'm coming from
  130. # [00:40] <roc> OK that's a lie
  131. # [00:40] <roc> the first few years were Netscape bug reports :-)
  132. # [00:40] <rwaldron> hahaha well... then you def see where i'm coming from
  133. # [00:40] <rwaldron> :)
  134. # [00:40] * Quits: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  135. # [00:40] <rwaldron> Hixie cpearce roc can you take a look at something I drafted earlier today?
  136. # [00:40] <roc> I see what you're saying, but I think this is something that is easily detected and fixed by the author
  137. # [00:41] <rwaldron> https://gist.github.com/1031549
  138. # [00:41] <roc> they may not understand why they have to fix it, but that's less important
  139. # [00:41] <rwaldron> It describes a unique behaviour that has value
  140. # [00:41] <roc> I don't think it's worth making the event less useful just to prevent this
  141. # [00:41] <rwaldron> fair enough
  142. # [00:41] <rwaldron> but see above
  143. # [00:41] <rwaldron> or... here https://gist.github.com/1031549
  144. # [00:42] <cpearce> rwaldron: r-. that can be achieved with canplaythrough + your own tracking code.
  145. # [00:42] <rwaldron> yeah, like I said, we're doing that
  146. # [00:42] <roc> having two events, one which fires once and one which fires more than once, is going to add to the confusion
  147. # [00:42] <rwaldron> i can see there is no interest
  148. # [00:43] <rwaldron> i'm going to save this log
  149. # [00:43] <kinetik> an event that fires only once will be incorrect for the reasons i outlined in the w3.org bug.
  150. # [00:43] <rwaldron> thanks for your time gents
  151. # [00:43] * Quits: simplicity- (~simpli@unaffiliated/simplicity-) (Quit: simplicity-)
  152. # [00:43] <roc> rwaldron: sorry dude
  153. # [00:44] <roc> I'm all for simplifying things for authors
  154. # [00:44] <roc> the problem in this case would be reduced if Chrome fixed their canplaythrough implementation to be non-brain-dead
  155. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> What we need to do is add the ability to listen to an event only once. jQuery has it, and it's nice and simple and useful.
  156. # [00:44] <roc> then authors would get multiple-firing consistently across browsers and wouldn't think it's a Firefox bug
  157. # [00:44] <kinetik> roc: and Opera.
  158. # [00:45] <rwaldron> we actually closed that FF ticket
  159. # [00:45] <roc> TabAtkins: that is a great idea too
  160. # [00:48] * Quits: othermaciej_ (~mjs@17.246.19.250) (Quit: othermaciej_)
  161. # [00:50] <hober> Whatever happend to Mr. Last Week?
  162. # [00:53] <roc> I got bored
  163. # [00:53] <roc> oops
  164. # [00:54] <hober> heh
  165. # [00:54] * Quits: tomasfm (~tom@194-237-176-98-no120.business.telia.com) (Quit: tomasfm)
  166. # [01:01] * Quits: David_Bradbury (~chatzilla@75-147-178-254-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
  167. # [01:04] <pererik> Hixie: if audioTracks and videoTracks were arrays of track objects you could create a new LocalStream from any number of individual tracks, either by making LocalStream contructable or through some factory
  168. # [01:06] <pererik> Hixie: if tracks are also made available on remote streams, it would be possible to combine several incoming audio streams and record a conversation
  169. # [01:06] <pererik> Hixie: or just recording local audio, while sending both audio and video
  170. # [01:10] * Quits: clair (~clair@host86-186-31-167.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  171. # [01:10] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  172. # [01:13] <heycam> mpilgrim, ok, looks like throwing on too few arguments and ignoring extra arguments is the way to go, then
  173. # [01:14] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
  174. # [01:14] * heycam wonders if there's a bot in here that you can use to leave messages for people
  175. # [01:15] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
  176. # [01:16] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  177. # [01:16] * Joins: clair (~clair@host81-159-103-136.range81-159.btcentralplus.com)
  178. # [01:16] <Philip`> heycam: None that I've ever seen, though you can just write your message and hope the recipient reads the IRC logs assiduously
  179. # [01:17] * Parts: rwaldron (~Rick@75-150-66-249-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) ("Leaving")
  180. # [01:18] * Joins: stefan-__ (~music@swhpet3041.uni-trier.de)
  181. # [01:18] * Quits: stefan-__ (~music@swhpet3041.uni-trier.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  182. # [01:18] * Quits: stefan-_ (~music@swhpet3041.uni-trier.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  183. # [01:19] * Joins: stefan-_ (~music@hiwi0.wi2.uni-trier.de)
  184. # [01:19] <zewt> any decent irc client highlights messages addressed to you
  185. # [01:20] <heycam> most don't do so if you weren't in the channel at the time someone wishes to leave you a message, though :)
  186. # [01:20] <zewt> so don't not be in the channel :P
  187. # [01:21] <heycam> heh
  188. # [01:22] <nimbu> heycam: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#memoserv
  189. # [01:22] <heycam> nimbu, oh, interesting, I'll try it
  190. # [01:25] <roc> oh no, that's four people in #whatwg on a Saturday morning
  191. # [01:27] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  192. # [01:30] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  193. # [01:32] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  194. # [01:34] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@2620:101:8003:200:226:bbff:fe05:3fe1) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  195. # [01:35] <Dashiva> Is there really a thread going "longdesc does not have backwards compatibility because many platforms and tools don't support it at all" "but it WILL HAVE backwards compatibility in the future when they add support for longdesc"?
  196. # [01:36] <TabAtkins> Yes. Yes there is.
  197. # [01:38] * Quits: dave_levin (~dave_levi@74.125.59.65) (Quit: dave_levin)
  198. # [01:39] <Dashiva> I'm going to need a bigger palm
  199. # [01:40] * Quits: Morphous_ (jan@f048038152.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  200. # [01:48] * Joins: MrDoublesite (~mropposit@c-84a7e253.5628737--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  201. # [01:48] * Quits: MrDoublesite (~mropposit@c-84a7e253.5628737--62697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Changing host)
  202. # [01:48] * Joins: MrDoublesite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
  203. # [01:48] * Quits: clair (~clair@host81-159-103-136.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: clair)
  204. # [01:49] * MrOpposite is now known as Guest47569
  205. # [01:49] * Quits: Guest47569 (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  206. # [01:50] * MrDoublesite is now known as MrOpposit
  207. # [01:50] * MrOpposit is now known as MrOpposite
  208. # [01:50] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  209. # [01:55] * Joins: Morphous_ (jan@f049033035.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  210. # [01:55] * Joins: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@57.72.102.121.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  211. # [02:07] * Quits: nimbu (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  212. # [02:08] * Quits: linclark (~clark@089-101-090180.ntlworld.ie) (Quit: linclark)
  213. # [02:12] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: davidwalsh)
  214. # [02:13] * Joins: linclark (~clark@089-101-090180.ntlworld.ie)
  215. # [02:15] * Quits: linclark (~clark@089-101-090180.ntlworld.ie) (Client Quit)
  216. # [02:17] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.203.15.144) (Quit: othermaciej)
  217. # [02:17] * othermaciej__ is now known as othermaciej
  218. # [02:18] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  219. # [02:19] * Quits: stefan-_ (~music@hiwi0.wi2.uni-trier.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  220. # [02:21] * Quits: charlvn (~quassel@41.0.48.54) (Remote host closed the connection)
  221. # [02:23] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.203.15.180) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  222. # [02:33] * Quits: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  223. # [02:35] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  224. # [02:41] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  225. # [02:41] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:401:226:4aff:fe14:aad6) (Quit: ap)
  226. # [02:45] * Joins: CrossX (~Cross@pool-96-229-201-241.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
  227. # [02:46] <CrossX> AryehGregor: I was told you could help me with FX's RTE https://developer.mozilla.org/en/rich-text_editing_in_mozilla
  228. # [02:47] <CrossX> When a user uses the RTE the HTML created appears on a single line instead of formated with \n's and \t's. Is there any way to get the HTML created in the RTE to appear 'beautyfied'.
  229. # [02:48] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.252)
  230. # [02:48] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:222:68ff:fe15:af5c) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.17/20110428205629])
  231. # [02:48] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  232. # [02:50] * Quits: kalc4 (~kalc4@78.149.204.50) (Quit: kalc4)
  233. # [02:52] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  234. # [02:53] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.0.252) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  235. # [02:55] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@66.109.105.107)
  236. # [02:58] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  237. # [03:03] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-wvqplzthdsgdksqe) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  238. # [03:06] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  239. # [03:09] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  240. # [03:09] * Parts: CrossX (~Cross@pool-96-229-201-241.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
  241. # [03:22] * Quits: pdr2 (~pdr2@nat/google/x-weyeclqtcxjhmtiw) (Remote host closed the connection)
  242. # [03:33] * Joins: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  243. # [03:40] * Quits: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  244. # [03:41] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p508294C7.dip.t-dialin.net)
  245. # [03:47] * Joins: nimbupani (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  246. # [03:47] * nimbupani is now known as nimbu
  247. # [03:47] * Parts: nimbu (~Adium@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  248. # [03:49] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-46-108.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  249. # [03:50] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@66.109.105.107) (Quit: othermaciej)
  250. # [03:54] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-64-26.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  251. # [03:56] * Quits: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Remote host closed the connection)
  252. # [03:58] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  253. # [04:00] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  254. # [04:04] * Joins: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk)
  255. # [04:07] * Quits: The_8472 (~stardive@azureus/The8472) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  256. # [04:12] * Joins: The_8472 (~stardive@azureus/The8472)
  257. # [04:14] * Joins: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  258. # [04:14] <mpilgrim> heycam: ping
  259. # [04:15] * Quits: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-uojuraojwudietfe) (Remote host closed the connection)
  260. # [04:15] * Joins: jochen__ (~jochen@nat/google/x-gjhaqmdhuixcnuyi)
  261. # [04:16] <heycam> mpilgrim, pong
  262. # [04:17] <mpilgrim> so i'm tightening up webkit's IDL implementation
  263. # [04:17] <mpilgrim> and aligning it with WebIDL
  264. # [04:17] <mpilgrim> slowly
  265. # [04:17] <heycam> cool!
  266. # [04:17] <heycam> are the V8 bindings still different from WebKit's?
  267. # [04:17] <mpilgrim> yes
  268. # [04:18] <mpilgrim> but both webkit and v8 are getting the new strictness
  269. # [04:18] <mpilgrim> is there a prescribed exception we should throw on missing required arguments?
  270. # [04:18] <heycam> yes, TypeError
  271. # [04:18] <mpilgrim> ok, we don't do that
  272. # [04:19] <mpilgrim> yet
  273. # [04:19] <heycam> ok
  274. # [04:19] <mpilgrim> well we don't do anything different yet
  275. # [04:19] <mpilgrim> the new strictness is still theoretical
  276. # [04:19] <mpilgrim> i'm migrating IndexedDB first
  277. # [04:22] <heycam> if you get on to migrating old apis, and find some that break compatibility when enforcing the strictness, it'd be good to turn those into spec bug reports
  278. # [04:22] <heycam> to make arguments optional
  279. # [04:22] * Quits: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  280. # [04:22] <mpilgrim> we will be tackling APIs in this order:
  281. # [04:22] <mpilgrim> 1. IndexedDB
  282. # [04:23] <mpilgrim> 2. other new-ish APIs (web audio, File API)
  283. # [04:23] <mpilgrim> 3. older APIs that are known to have stricter implementations in other browsers (addEventListener)
  284. # [04:24] <mpilgrim> 4. older APIs that have poor or no x-browser interop (WebSQLDatabase)
  285. # [04:24] <mpilgrim> 5. older APIs that have unknown interop issues
  286. # [04:24] <mpilgrim> 6. SVG
  287. # [04:26] <mpilgrim> ok, i've changed our IDL code generator (A 3356-LINE PERL SCRIPT WITH VIRTUALLY NO UNIT TESTS) to throw TypeError instead of SyntaxError
  288. # [04:26] <mpilgrim> on missing required arguments
  289. # [04:26] <heycam> (I did some minor amount of hacking on that file in the past :( )
  290. # [04:27] <mpilgrim> i added 3 lines and introduced 2 new bugs
  291. # [04:27] <mpilgrim> Perl is not my drug of choice
  292. # [04:28] * heycam enjoys it, but really should learn python some day
  293. # [04:29] <mpilgrim> i have another (unrelated) WebIDL question
  294. # [04:29] <mpilgrim> on nulls
  295. # [04:29] <heycam> sure
  296. # [04:29] <heycam> (I have to head out in a couple of mins tho)
  297. # [04:29] <mpilgrim> I've read http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#TreatNullAs
  298. # [04:30] <mpilgrim> it seems the only two choices are "" and "null"
  299. # [04:30] <heycam> yeah
  300. # [04:30] <mpilgrim> WebKit has this flag which I don't fully understand called ConvertNullToNullString
  301. # [04:30] <mpilgrim> which, in C++ land, makes the null JS argument an actual null value in C++
  302. # [04:30] <heycam> I in the past wondered about that flag, too -- I never fully understood the distinction between null and a "null string"
  303. # [04:30] <heycam> oh
  304. # [04:30] <mpilgrim> well, it's poorly named, but that's what it does
  305. # [04:31] <mpilgrim> is there a WebIDL equivalent to that?
  306. # [04:32] <heycam> so the DOMString type only has values that are strings
  307. # [04:32] <heycam> if you want null in that type too, you can write "DOMString?"
  308. # [04:32] <heycam> you can't use [TreatNullAs] on "DOMString?" typed arguments
  309. # [04:32] <heycam> since null is a valid value of the type
  310. # [04:32] <zewt> the null string is the empty string, synonymous
  311. # [04:32] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman)
  312. # [04:33] <heycam> zewt, I think it really depends on the context
  313. # [04:33] <zewt> can't think of any context where it means something else
  314. # [04:33] <heycam> zewt, i.e. people use the term "null string" differently
  315. # [04:33] <heycam> it could mean a null object reference
  316. # [04:33] <zewt> i'd say they're using it incorrectly, then
  317. # [04:34] <zewt> that's not the null string, that's just null
  318. # [04:34] <mpilgrim> yes, that's what it really is -- it takes the JavaScript value null and converts it to a null object reference in C++
  319. # [04:34] <heycam> zewt, I think it's fair to stick to one particular definition of "null string", yes. :)
  320. # [04:34] <mpilgrim> i'm not sure we've implemented support for "?"
  321. # [04:34] <mpilgrim> ie "DOMString?"
  322. # [04:34] <mpilgrim> but i'll check
  323. # [04:34] <heycam> mpilgrim, ok sounds like "DOMString?" is what you want though
  324. # [04:34] <mpilgrim> awesome
  325. # [04:35] <heycam> the "?" has only been in Web IDL for maybe 6 months
  326. # [04:35] <heycam> but specs are just now starting to use it
  327. # [04:35] <heycam> ok gotta go, back in an hour or something
  328. # [04:35] <zewt> mpilgrim: if "ConvertNullToNullString" means "convert javascript null to ((std::string *) NULL)" or similar, it seems confusingly named at beset
  329. # [04:35] <mpilgrim> thanks
  330. # [04:35] <heycam> np
  331. # [04:35] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  332. # [04:39] <mpilgrim> zewt: yeah, well, i'm looking to do away with the flag altogether and align with WebIDL instead
  333. # [04:42] <mpilgrim> man, the downside of hacking on the IDL code generator is it has to reprocess 500+ IDL files and then recompile every time i change one line of perl
  334. # [04:44] <zewt> also, having to change lines of perl
  335. # [04:46] <mpilgrim> yes, another major downside
  336. # [04:50] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  337. # [04:52] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  338. # [04:52] * Joins: stefan-_ (~music@hiwi0.wi2.uni-trier.de)
  339. # [05:00] * Parts: wibblenut (~Andy_Chan@2.102.139.93)
  340. # [05:08] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p508292C5.dip.t-dialin.net)
  341. # [05:10] <MikeSmith> I reckon that thing you pinged me about on IRC when I was away was http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12212
  342. # [05:11] <MikeSmith> the JS problem with the feedback form
  343. # [05:11] <MikeSmith> anyway, yeah, it's fixed now
  344. # [05:13] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p508294C7.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  345. # [05:18] * miketaylr is now known as dcroat
  346. # [05:19] * Joins: foxkid (~foxkid@201.34.230.109)
  347. # [05:21] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  348. # [05:24] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com)
  349. # [05:31] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  350. # [05:35] <mpilgrim> heycam: so it turns out throwing TypeError is a bit more complicated than i'd hoped
  351. # [05:35] * Quits: stefan-_ (~music@hiwi0.wi2.uni-trier.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  352. # [05:35] <mpilgrim> webkit currently throws SyntaxError when there aren't enough arguments
  353. # [05:37] <mpilgrim> every function that currently specifies [RequiresAllArguments=raise] (many in SVG, a few in canvas, one in XMLHttpRequest) is potentially affected
  354. # [05:37] <mpilgrim> that means i might be breaking the web
  355. # [05:37] <mpilgrim> which means i need some thorough review and buy-in first
  356. # [05:49] * Joins: luchenbill (~gnome@shellium/member/unfunf)
  357. # [05:49] * Parts: luchenbill (~gnome@shellium/member/unfunf)
  358. # [05:56] * Quits: dcroat (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: dcroat)
  359. # [05:56] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net)
  360. # [05:57] * Quits: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  361. # [05:57] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-215.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  362. # [06:01] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  363. # [06:07] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@208-90-212-203.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  364. # [06:11] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net) (Quit: hij1nx)
  365. # [06:16] * eric_carlson_ is now known as eric_carlson
  366. # [07:40] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.31.127)
  367. # [07:47] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  368. # [07:55] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
  369. # [08:03] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi)
  370. # [08:10] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-125-117f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  371. # [08:12] * Joins: fishd_ (~darin@nat/google/x-jkpksmlmgzpielhb)
  372. # [08:12] * Quits: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/google/x-wbrjpcmjbhgelbvp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  373. # [08:13] * Quits: fishd (~darin@nat/google/x-gzvmywoarhlpzdgn) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  374. # [08:14] * Joins: TabAtkins (~tabatkins@nat/google/x-uhtidzgujaiaujpe)
  375. # [08:16] * Joins: foolip_ (~philip@h242n6-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
  376. # [08:37] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  377. # [08:40] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181139127.pp.htv.fi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  378. # [08:42] * Quits: othree_ (~othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  379. # [08:43] * Joins: othree_ (~othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw)
  380. # [08:56] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@ip176-48-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
  381. # [09:01] * Joins: LBP (~Miranda@pD9EB1BB0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  382. # [09:07] <pererik> Hixie: what I meant was that MediaStream could be made constructible with tracks as arguments (stop() doesn't make sense if the stream is composed of tracks from other streams)
  383. # [09:08] <pererik> Hixie: what could be problematic is that the availability of each track would have to be tracked and maybe exposed as a readyState or as a boolean property
  384. # [09:08] <pererik> Hixie: a boolean property makes sense if there are only two states
  385. # [09:09] <pererik> Hixie: also if the enabled/selected state ends up on the track objects they would have to be copied into the new stream so that they can be independently controlled
  386. # [09:10] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~mikesmith@EM1-112-64-26.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  387. # [09:12] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-125-117f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  388. # [09:17] * Joins: Akina (~chatzilla@46.12.51.159)
  389. # [09:31] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.182.117)
  390. # [09:39] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-89-100f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  391. # [09:45] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie)
  392. # [09:48] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  393. # [09:48] * Quits: moo-_- (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  394. # [09:48] * Quits: MikeSmith_ (~mikesmith@EM1-112-64-26.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  395. # [09:50] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-64-26.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  396. # [09:51] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.31.127) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  397. # [09:55] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-72-6.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  398. # [10:00] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYDCCXLIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  399. # [10:00] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-215.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  400. # [10:01] * Joins: moo-_- (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi)
  401. # [10:01] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-215.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  402. # [10:03] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-168-8-33.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  403. # [10:03] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  404. # [10:05] * Quits: moo-_- (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  405. # [10:15] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  406. # [10:18] * Joins: msucan (~robod@92.86.247.27)
  407. # [10:31] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-72-6.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: Deyr fé deyja, frændr deyr, sjálfr et sama)
  408. # [10:33] * Quits: cpearce (~chatzilla@ip-118-90-3-203.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  409. # [10:33] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-72-6.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  410. # [10:39] <annevk> http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/system-info/battery-status.html is anyone planning on implementing this?
  411. # [10:39] <Ms2ger> /dap/? I assume not
  412. # [10:42] <Ms2ger> Also, http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.platform/browse_thread/thread/764c9bbee7e22a52
  413. # [10:49] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-8-33.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  414. # [10:52] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@2406:a000:f0ff:fffe::3461)
  415. # [10:52] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@2406:a000:f0ff:fffe::3461) (Remote host closed the connection)
  416. # [10:53] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@2406:a000:f0ff:fffe::3461)
  417. # [10:53] * Joins: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  418. # [10:54] <pererik> annevk: https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2011-June/017120.html
  419. # [11:00] * Quits: foxkid (~foxkid@201.34.230.109)
  420. # [11:02] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-168-22-188.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  421. # [11:06] <annevk> thanks!
  422. # [11:07] * Quits: foolip_ (~philip@h242n6-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  423. # [11:21] <smaug____> Ms2ger: I think MS is quite interested in DAP work
  424. # [11:21] <smaug____> at least some parts of it
  425. # [11:21] <smaug____> I don't know why
  426. # [11:27] * Joins: ben_h (~ben@CPE-58-161-41-76.czqd1.win.bigpond.net.au)
  427. # [11:29] <Ms2ger> They do lots of weird stuff
  428. # [11:32] <smaug____> Ms2ger: actually, it sounded like they would like to use DAP's capturing API
  429. # [11:32] <smaug____> I assume that is because W3C HTML5 doesn't have capturing API, IIRC
  430. # [11:32] <smaug____> MS should just join whatwg
  431. # [11:33] <Ms2ger> Now that's something we can agree on :)
  432. # [11:35] <annevk> <input type=file> is a capturing API
  433. # [11:37] * Quits: Akina (~chatzilla@46.12.51.159) (Remote host closed the connection)
  434. # [11:40] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-22-188.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  435. # [11:44] <Peter`> Isn't the only thing holding MS' joining back the lack of a patent policy?
  436. # [11:44] <Peter`> Well, the largest reason
  437. # [11:46] <annevk> seemed to be no problem for schema.org
  438. # [11:55] * Joins: drewcode (~chatzilla@24-107-73-144.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
  439. # [11:57] * Quits: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  440. # [11:57] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  441. # [11:58] * Joins: DaFireball (~Vuurbal@240-216-164-193.fiber.trined.nl)
  442. # [12:02] <MikeSmith> quake
  443. # [12:03] <MikeSmith> annevk: I thought that too
  444. # [12:03] <MikeSmith> but schema.org does actually have a patent policy
  445. # [12:03] <MikeSmith> read the "Terms and conditions" page
  446. # [12:10] <annevk> I see
  447. # [12:11] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@178-119-105-19.access.telenet.be)
  448. # [12:11] <annevk> well, I guess if Microsoft made an effort to join the WHATWG such a policy could be created for it too
  449. # [12:13] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@178-119-105-19.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  450. # [12:17] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-168-22-188.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  451. # [12:19] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@2406:a000:f0ff:fffe::3461) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  452. # [12:20] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@203.210.202.112)
  453. # [12:26] * Joins: wakaba_0 (~wakaba_@57.72.102.121.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  454. # [12:30] * Quits: wakaba_ (~wakaba_@57.72.102.121.dy.bbexcite.jp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  455. # [12:36] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-72-6.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: Deyr fé deyja, frændr deyr, sjálfr et sama)
  456. # [12:37] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  457. # [12:40] * Joins: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  458. # [12:40] * Quits: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  459. # [12:40] * Joins: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  460. # [12:41] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  461. # [12:41] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachlan@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Client Quit)
  462. # [12:51] * Joins: moo-_- (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi)
  463. # [12:51] <annevk> any progress on Gecko removing mutation events as trial for a future Firefox release?
  464. # [12:54] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  465. # [12:55] * Quits: moo-_- (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  466. # [12:55] <Ms2ger> No
  467. # [12:57] <annevk> smaug____, ^^
  468. # [12:58] <annevk> apparently I'm using a nightly of Firefox 7, you'd expect some progress by now :p
  469. # [12:58] <Ms2ger> You know what's weird? We'll release Fx7 final this year :)
  470. # [12:59] <smaug____> annevk: sorry
  471. # [12:59] <smaug____> I should write the replacement implementation first
  472. # [13:00] * smaug____ reviews a patch first and start implementing it
  473. # [13:04] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  474. # [13:05] * Joins: moo-_- (~quassel@herd37.twinapex.fi)
  475. # [13:08] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly)
  476. # [13:12] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  477. # [13:18] * Joins: Martijnc (~Martijnc@d54C02C64.access.telenet.be)
  478. # [13:22] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  479. # [13:26] <smaug____> annevk: just curious, what do you think about FunctionOnly? Since I'm having hard time to understand why it would be used ever (except perhaps for legacy API)
  480. # [13:26] <annevk> It makes the API surface simpler
  481. # [13:27] <smaug____> really?
  482. # [13:27] <smaug____> how
  483. # [13:27] <annevk> but it would also be simpler if we supported the same pattern everywhere
  484. # [13:27] <annevk> well, since you cannot do both function() {} and {handler:function(){}}
  485. # [13:27] <annevk> but just function(){}
  486. # [13:27] <smaug____> and it is simpler for who?
  487. # [13:28] <annevk> but supporting function and {} everywhere would be fine with me too
  488. # [13:28] <annevk> authors
  489. # [13:28] <smaug____> if some author doesn't care about { foo: function()}, there is no need to use it
  490. # [13:29] <smaug____> 'this' handling with { foo: function() {}} makes it just very handy
  491. # [13:29] <annevk> that doesn't make it simpler :) he still needs to chose
  492. # [13:29] <annevk> or she
  493. # [13:29] <annevk> yeah, so maybe we should support the {handler} thing everywhere?
  494. # [13:36] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  495. # [13:36] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  496. # [13:37] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  497. # [13:39] <smaug____> annevk: yes, IMO, we should support {} everywhere
  498. # [13:40] <smaug____> onfoo listeners could be, in theory, special case, because of how they have traditionally worked in browsers
  499. # [13:40] <smaug____> and I'm not sure about setTimeout/Interval
  500. # [13:42] * Joins: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite)
  501. # [13:47] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@wg1-nat.fwgal01.deri.ie) (Quit: brb)
  502. # [13:50] <hsivonen> now that Opera has a dev channel equivalent, how long until Opera gets rid of minor version numbers
  503. # [13:56] * Joins: kalc4 (~kalc4@78.149.200.215)
  504. # [13:57] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@ip176-48-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  505. # [13:59] * Quits: ben_h (~ben@CPE-58-161-41-76.czqd1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Quit: ben_h)
  506. # [14:04] * Joins: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  507. # [14:11] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  508. # [14:16] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: when I have a minute I wanted to get your feedback on an idea about how to better handle the validator spec advice in error messages for input elements that have attributes that aren't allowed for their type
  509. # [14:19] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.5)
  510. # [14:19] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: what's the idea?
  511. # [14:19] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: or did you mean you don't have the minute now?
  512. # [14:20] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: anyway, the input element autoextracted advice is confusing enough that it might be worthwhile to special-case the input element and even emit hand-crafted advice
  513. # [14:20] <MikeSmith> bing
  514. # [14:20] <MikeSmith> *bingo
  515. # [14:20] <MikeSmith> that's what I was going to ask you about
  516. # [14:21] <MikeSmith> was thinking, basically, could add a hashmap in the message-emitter code
  517. # [14:22] * Joins: clair (~clair@host86-186-28-125.range86-186.btcentralplus.com)
  518. # [14:22] <MikeSmith> with a string to hold the name of each input type, and an array of strings to hold the allowed attributes for that type
  519. # [14:22] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: makes sense
  520. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> OK
  521. # [14:23] <MikeSmith> I will try to get a patch written up for it this weekend
  522. # [14:24] * Quits: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  523. # [14:24] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: cool
  524. # [14:27] <MikeSmith> hmm, http://www.koderapp.com/
  525. # [14:28] <MikeSmith> after a few weeks of using an ipad, I have a hard time imaging to try to spend any significant time trying to write or edit code using it
  526. # [14:29] <MikeSmith> or generally, any touchscreen device without a real keyboard
  527. # [14:31] * smaug____ doesn't remember if ipad gives tactile feedback when typing
  528. # [14:36] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net)
  529. # [14:39] * Quits: _jgr (~jgr@CPE-58-165-78-48.qld.bigpond.net.au) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  530. # [14:42] * Joins: _bga (~bga@ppp91-122-184-7.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
  531. # [14:45] * Quits: bga_ (~bga@ppp78-37-227-59.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  532. # [14:45] <hsivonen> hmm. should http://code.google.com/apis/webmastertools/docs/1.0/reference.html really count as a spec for "verify-v1" as a meta keyword?
  533. # [14:46] <hsivonen> http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35638#3 suggests a different keyword
  534. # [14:47] * Joins: ttepasse (~ttepasse@ip-109-90-161-169.unitymediagroup.de)
  535. # [14:47] <hsivonen> http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=548b74c4eb6c44bf&hl=en suggests the old syntax still works
  536. # [14:55] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-89-100f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  537. # [14:57] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.182.117) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  538. # [15:00] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  539. # [15:00] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  540. # [15:07] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  541. # [15:08] <erlehmann> MikeSmith, i cannot even grok how people using a smartphone without a proper keyboard can type on it. my thumb ached after i tried it for like a week.
  542. # [15:08] <erlehmann> also, it's slooooooow
  543. # [15:10] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  544. # [15:12] <MikeSmith> erlehmann: yeah, though tablets have faster CPUs at least
  545. # [15:12] <MikeSmith> faster than smartphones
  546. # [15:13] <MikeSmith> smaug____: no tactile feedback on ipad
  547. # [15:13] <MikeSmith> just clicking sound
  548. # [15:13] <erlehmann> MikeSmith, implying that would matter with editors. i use NANO(1) on my g1.
  549. # [15:14] <MikeSmith> what's a g1?
  550. # [15:14] <smaug____> MikeSmith: tactile feedback might help with typing
  551. # [15:15] <erlehmann> MikeSmith, htc dream.
  552. # [15:15] <erlehmann> t-mobile branded name for it, in … europe? at least germany.
  553. # [15:15] <MikeSmith> erlehmann: ah
  554. # [15:16] <MikeSmith> smaug____: yeah, definitely. haptics I guess they call it
  555. # [15:16] <erlehmann> funny enough, it's “old”, but i have not found a smartphone with a decent keyboard yet.
  556. # [15:16] <smaug____> yup
  557. # [15:17] <erlehmann> also, the never ones do not have cheap plastic cases, so no monster batteries that make it look like a brick :B
  558. # [15:18] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-22-188.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  559. # [15:19] * Joins: mpilgrim (~pilgrim@rrcs-24-206-36-125.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  560. # [15:19] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: annevk)
  561. # [15:26] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@112-68-250-230f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  562. # [15:28] * Quits: Necrathex (~nectop@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl) (Quit: Necrathex)
  563. # [15:29] <hsivonen> the latest spec fur Dublin Core is awfully vague
  564. # [15:29] <hsivonen> how can anyone implement software that does something useful with DC?
  565. # [15:29] <hsivonen> do they just reverse engineer what others do?
  566. # [15:30] <hsivonen> or does no one actually implement useful software that uses DC?
  567. # [15:32] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  568. # [15:35] <hsivonen> sigh. validator.nu deployment broken again. html5.validator.nu works
  569. # [15:35] <MikeSmith> is there any software that actually does anything useful with DC?
  570. # [15:36] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: what broke?
  571. # [15:36] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: it doesn't pick up the changes when I try to deploy
  572. # [15:36] <MikeSmith> oh
  573. # [15:37] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@203.210.202.112) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  574. # [15:37] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I'm not aware of such software (Re: DC)
  575. # [15:38] <MikeSmith> well, geez
  576. # [15:38] <MikeSmith> that says something, really
  577. # [15:38] <MikeSmith> I mean, if there are no widely-used apps that actually consumed that data
  578. # [15:39] <hsivonen> that I'm unaware doesn't mean they don't exist
  579. # [15:39] <MikeSmith> it would make it seem like a fairly massive waste of time for people to actually be adding it
  580. # [15:39] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net)
  581. # [15:39] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net) (Quit: hij1nx)
  582. # [15:39] <MikeSmith> well, certainly seems like there's nothing very widely-known that does anything with it
  583. # [15:39] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net)
  584. # [15:41] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  585. # [15:41] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: btw, in walking through the message-emitter code, I now see that for the case of the input element, there does not seem to be any way to determine in that part of the code what its type value is
  586. # [15:42] <MikeSmith> because the exceptions the jing generates don't have any methods for getting at the attribute information
  587. # [15:42] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  588. # [15:43] <MikeSmith> those exceptions only have methods for getting the element name and name of its parent
  589. # [15:45] <MikeSmith> so I guess I'm going to have to think about this a bit more
  590. # [15:49] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: :-(
  591. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> indeed :(
  592. # [15:50] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@p4246-ipbf5910marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  593. # [15:50] <MikeSmith> may have to resort to scraping the extract
  594. # [15:53] <hsivonen> I'd rather punch some abstraction holes elsewhere than scrape the extract
  595. # [15:56] <hsivonen> http://dublincore.org/resources/faq/#whatsearchenginessupport
  596. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> chuckle
  597. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> "Blue Angel Technologies MetaStar"
  598. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> and "Verity Search 97 Information Server"
  599. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> okay
  600. # [16:00] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  601. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> I'll add a method to the jing abstract exception do get all the attributes
  602. # [16:01] <MikeSmith> James would probably love that
  603. # [16:03] <gsnedders> hsivonen: RSS consumors often use dc:date
  604. # [16:03] * Quits: LBP (~Miranda@pD9EB1BB0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
  605. # [16:08] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  606. # [16:09] <hsivonen> gsnedders: with what meaning and what value formats?
  607. # [16:10] <gsnedders> hsivonen: Publication date (in place of the very badly implemented pubDate). Normally supporting W3CDTF.
  608. # [16:11] <hsivonen> gsnedders: ok
  609. # [16:11] * hsivonen wonders what software uses "coverage" and for what
  610. # [16:14] * Quits: MikeSmith_ (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
  611. # [16:14] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  612. # [16:26] * Quits: MikeSmith_ (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: gone)
  613. # [16:26] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: Deyr fé deyja, frændr deyr, sjálfr et sama)
  614. # [16:27] * Joins: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  615. # [16:33] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/boogyman)
  616. # [16:34] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@AMontsouris-157-1-110-26.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  617. # [16:36] * Quits: Obvious_MkII (tachikoma@188.226.74.2) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  618. # [16:42] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: mhausenblas)
  619. # [16:44] * Quits: CvP (~CvP@123.49.21.16) (Disconnected by services)
  620. # [16:44] * Joins: xCG (~CvP@123.49.21.133)
  621. # [16:44] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.182.117)
  622. # [16:45] * xCG is now known as CvP
  623. # [16:47] * Joins: hij1nx_ (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net)
  624. # [16:48] * Joins: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2)
  625. # [16:50] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  626. # [16:51] * _bga is now known as bga_|away
  627. # [16:51] * hij1nx_ is now known as hij1nx
  628. # [16:52] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@ip176-48-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl)
  629. # [16:55] * Joins: hij1nx_ (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net)
  630. # [16:59] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  631. # [16:59] * hij1nx_ is now known as hij1nx
  632. # [17:04] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  633. # [17:04] * Quits: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  634. # [17:05] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@89.240.42.35)
  635. # [17:17] * Joins: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  636. # [17:21] * Quits: Steve^ (~steve@89.240.42.35) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  637. # [17:23] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com)
  638. # [17:24] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Remote host closed the connection)
  639. # [17:33] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@h-67-102-99-210.mclnva23.static.covad.net) (Quit: hij1nx)
  640. # [17:39] * Quits: othree_ (~othree@admin39.ct.ntust.edu.tw) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  641. # [17:40] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@203.210.202.112)
  642. # [17:45] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@203.210.202.112) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  643. # [17:46] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  644. # [17:54] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  645. # [18:13] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  646. # [18:19] * Quits: MrOpposite (~mropposit@unaffiliated/mropposite) (Remote host closed the connection)
  647. # [18:19] * Quits: kalc4 (~kalc4@78.149.200.215) (Quit: kalc4)
  648. # [18:20] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  649. # [18:23] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@lag75-1-78-192-241-87.fbxo.proxad.net)
  650. # [18:25] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  651. # [18:29] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (~tabatkins@nat/google/x-begioivvdxkihndv)
  652. # [18:34] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (~tabatkins@nat/google/x-begioivvdxkihndv) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  653. # [18:42] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@178-119-105-19.access.telenet.be)
  654. # [18:43] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@178-119-105-19.access.telenet.be) (Client Quit)
  655. # [18:50] * Joins: Steve^ (~steve@89.240.40.90)
  656. # [18:52] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@p4246-ipbf5910marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  657. # [19:20] * Quits: ZombieLoffe (~e@unaffiliated/zombieloffe)
  658. # [19:27] * Quits: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: gone)
  659. # [19:28] * Joins: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  660. # [19:32] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  661. # [19:39] <MikeSmith> "Incorporated Rhino CLI" https://github.com/stubbornella/csslint/blob/master/CHANGELOG
  662. # [19:39] <MikeSmith> wonder what that means
  663. # [19:41] <gsnedders> It's possible to run in Rhino, I believe, looking through the commits
  664. # [19:42] <MikeSmith> oh
  665. # [19:43] <MikeSmith> run _in_ rhino?
  666. # [19:43] <MikeSmith> is what it means"?
  667. # [19:43] <gsnedders> MikeSmith: Yeah.
  668. # [19:44] <MikeSmith> ok
  669. # [19:44] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  670. # [19:47] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com) (Excess Flood)
  671. # [19:48] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  672. # [19:48] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com)
  673. # [19:54] * Quits: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  674. # [19:54] * Joins: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  675. # [19:56] * Joins: hdhoang (~hdhoang@203.210.202.112)
  676. # [19:57] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p508292C5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  677. # [20:00] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p508292C5.dip.t-dialin.net)
  678. # [20:04] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: mhausenblas)
  679. # [20:05] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  680. # [20:06] * Joins: mhausenblas_ (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  681. # [20:06] * Quits: mhausenblas_ (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Client Quit)
  682. # [20:06] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  683. # [20:11] * Quits: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-75-97.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  684. # [20:14] * Joins: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-187-98.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  685. # [20:23] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-215.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: Snuggling with the puppies)
  686. # [20:24] * Quits: hdhoang (~hdhoang@203.210.202.112) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
  687. # [20:27] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@173-228-112-215.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  688. # [20:32] <smaug____> recompiling, and then first test with the mutation event replament.
  689. # [20:32] <smaug____> replacement
  690. # [20:32] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  691. # [20:36] * Quits: MikeSmith (~mikesmith@EM114-48-187-98.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  692. # [20:39] * Quits: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  693. # [20:40] * Joins: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  694. # [20:40] * Quits: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  695. # [20:40] * Joins: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  696. # [20:50] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@50-47-173-54.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
  697. # [21:00] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Quit: Poof.)
  698. # [21:01] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  699. # [21:01] <Yuhong> <Ms2ger> We should replace it with something purty and neat, all from scratch
  700. # [21:02] <Yuhong> Personally if I was there in 2004 I would have suggested a new version of XHTML that is tag level compatible with HTML4 and XHTML1.
  701. # [21:02] <Yuhong> As opposed to XHTML2 which was not.
  702. # [21:10] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  703. # [21:17] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  704. # [21:22] * Quits: Yuhong (~chatzilla@50-47-173-54.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
  705. # [21:23] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYDCCXLIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  706. # [21:25] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  707. # [21:30] * Joins: Thezilch (fuz007@cpe-76-167-225-217.socal.res.rr.com)
  708. # [21:42] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  709. # [21:43] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  710. # [21:43] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.125.136)
  711. # [21:44] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  712. # [21:47] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com) (Excess Flood)
  713. # [21:48] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com)
  714. # [21:50] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  715. # [21:50] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  716. # [22:05] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  717. # [22:29] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  718. # [22:31] <annevk> Unread 2345
  719. # [22:31] <annevk> making progress
  720. # [22:31] <annevk> I wonder when I reach 1337
  721. # [22:32] <Ms2ger> Down from?
  722. # [22:32] <annevk> 19k
  723. # [22:33] <Ms2ger> Then I suspect soon :)
  724. # [22:34] <annevk> the first 10k was the easiest :)
  725. # [22:35] <Ms2ger> Also, I was happy to see you agreed with this editor :)
  726. # [22:39] * bga_ is now known as bga_|away
  727. # [22:40] <annevk> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-mime-default-charset whoa
  728. # [22:41] <annevk> jreschke aligning some outdated spec with implementations rather than claiming the implementations are broken
  729. # [22:42] * annevk makes a note for WHATWG Weekly
  730. # [22:45] <Ms2ger> If you hadn't seen it yet, https://github.com/andreasgal/dom.js
  731. # [22:46] * Quits: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  732. # [22:46] <annevk> sweet
  733. # [22:47] <annevk> is this sponsored by Mozilla now he figured out just selling books does not work? :)
  734. # [22:47] <annevk> oh, David Flanagan was just the last to make a checkin
  735. # [22:48] * Joins: bentruyman (~bentruyma@24-148-24-69.c3-0.prs-ubr2.chi-prs.il.cable.rcn.com)
  736. # [22:51] <Ms2ger> Yes, I believe so
  737. # [22:53] * Quits: msucan (~robod@92.86.247.27) (Quit: .)
  738. # [22:53] <annevk> very cool
  739. # [22:54] <Ms2ger> Yeah, we're doing something new for once ;)
  740. # [22:54] <annevk> I saw in the logs experiments with removing mutation events are starting too
  741. # [22:55] <annevk> I wonder if the replacement needs to be part of DOM Core
  742. # [22:55] <Ms2ger> Probably
  743. # [23:02] <annevk> Ah, I found and replied to the email where bz rightly claims DOM Core would not be a proper specification without mutation events
  744. # [23:04] * Joins: clair_ (~clair@host86-163-151-50.range86-163.btcentralplus.com)
  745. # [23:04] <zewt> annevk: by the way, recent discussion in here raised the question of how dom core should deal with those weird events where dispatching them causes default behavior (onclick in particular, onsubmit in everything but WebKit) ... not urgent, just mentioning it while I'm remembering it since it was off-list
  746. # [23:05] <Ms2ger> annevk, what do you think about document.ownerDocument, while you're in that thread?
  747. # [23:05] <annevk> oh yeah, I agree with Ian that submit is bug
  748. # [23:06] * Quits: clair (~clair@host86-186-28-125.range86-186.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  749. # [23:06] * clair_ is now known as clair
  750. # [23:06] <annevk> Ms2ger, if we can change browsers, works for me
  751. # [23:07] <annevk> Ms2ger, that a Document owns itself makes sense to me :)
  752. # [23:07] * Ms2ger adds a note
  753. # [23:07] <annevk> zewt, and I think I agree with you that we should just treat them as distinct concepts
  754. # [23:07] <annevk> zewt, dispatching and whatever you do if the event was not canceled
  755. # [23:11] <jgraham> mpilgrim: BTW I would love for the final argument to addEventListener to be optional, so let's try to fix the platform :)
  756. # [23:11] <jgraham> Also, commiserations on the perl
  757. # [23:12] <annevk> zewt, Ms2ger, also, I think using the empty string rather than a hidden flag is the way to go for uninitialized events
  758. # [23:12] <annevk> (re: long time ago)
  759. # [23:12] <Ms2ger> Tell smaug that :)
  760. # [23:12] * jgraham knows no perl and was trying to add features to a largish, test-free, perl codebase the other day
  761. # [23:12] <zewt> i agree, figured I'd wait until you were back to grumble further about that
  762. # [23:12] <zewt> jgraham: my condolensces
  763. # [23:13] <annevk> jgraham, it's already optional
  764. # [23:13] <annevk> jgraham, see DOM Core
  765. # [23:13] <gsnedders> jgraham: It does have tests. About four.
  766. # [23:13] <Ms2ger> jgraham, been hacking on WebKit's IDL parser?
  767. # [23:13] * Quits: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com) (Excess Flood)
  768. # [23:13] <jgraham> annevk: Right. So let's not let mpilgrim make it non-optional in WebKit :)
  769. # [23:13] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.125.136) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  770. # [23:14] <jgraham> gsnedders: Not covering the bit I was modifying though
  771. # [23:14] * Joins: matjas (~matjas@91.182.125.136)
  772. # [23:14] <jgraham> I was *so* tempted to rewrite that bit in python and work out how to call perl from python...
  773. # [23:15] <zewt> heh, i rewrote all of my old perl stuff in python long ago, fortunately I've never written anything *big* in Perl
  774. # [23:16] * Joins: boaz (~boaz@li326-230.members.linode.com)
  775. # [23:19] * Joins: pdr2 (~pdr2@nat/google/x-coifsmfrefzblagq)
  776. # [23:25] * Quits: matjas (~matjas@91.182.125.136) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  777. # [23:29] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.182.117) (Quit: nn)
  778. # [23:30] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: davidwalsh)
  779. # [23:44] * Joins: Rik`_ (~Rik`@lag75-1-78-192-241-87.fbxo.proxad.net)
  780. # [23:44] * Quits: Rik` (~Rik`@lag75-1-78-192-241-87.fbxo.proxad.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  781. # [23:46] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  782. # [23:57] * Quits: Rik`_ (~Rik`@lag75-1-78-192-241-87.fbxo.proxad.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  783. # [23:58] * Joins: Rik` (~Rik`@lag75-1-78-192-241-87.fbxo.proxad.net)
  784. # Session Close: Sun Jun 19 00:00:00 2011

The end :)