/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-08-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Aug 06 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <AryehGregor> Sounds good.
  4. # 03[00:00] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@2620:149:f01:202:3cdd:8bc4:ab64:c167)
  5. # [00:00] <rniwa> it seems like the discussion on that thread is bikeshedding to some extent now
  6. # [00:00] <rniwa> but ideally, script should be able to get a list of mutations that happened for a given edit action
  7. # [00:02] <AryehGregor> Okay, go to go. See you around.
  8. # [00:02] <rniwa> k
  9. # [00:02] <rniwa> ttyl
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  89. # [02:55] <hober> Hixie othermaciej TabAtkins & others who are interested in this sort of thing: here's the quick first pass on the <dialog modal> CP. I'll revise it tonight & tomorrow based on feedback; feel free to email or discuss it here. http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-133
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  91. # [02:56] <hober> [or feel free to just make the CP better, for that matter; it's a wiki :)]
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  105. # [03:21] <othermaciej> hober: neat
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  107. # [03:23] <othermaciej> hober: I would advise against use of the diaeresis in "coordinated", this ain't the New Yorker
  108. # [03:25] <othermaciej> hober: it would be helpful to list what features of other libraries this doesn't cover
  109. # [03:27] <Hixie> hober: looks good on a first skim, i'll look more closely later if you mail me a link
  110. # [03:33] <jamesr> why is this an element and not a purely script-driven API? it doesn't look like there's any way to use this w/out script initialization, at least
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  112. # [03:34] <nimbu> Hixie: I am trying to research how document outlines originated, and this is the earliest I could find a cogent reason for their existence: http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2007-May/011481.html Do you recall when it was originally thought of (so I can trawl archives better)?
  113. # [03:34] <jamesr> hober, what happens if .show() is invoked when the page doesn't have focus?
  114. # [03:34] <Hixie> jamesr: well you need something to display
  115. # [03:35] <jamesr> Hixie, granted, but why does it have to be a specific element? why not any block element?
  116. # [03:36] <Hixie> why bother with <section>? or <blockquote>?
  117. # [03:36] <Hixie> same reason
  118. # [03:36] <Hixie> (ease of code maintenance/readability, semantics/accessibility, ease of interpretation by search engines or other tools, etc)
  119. # [03:37] <zewt> why does page focus matter? surely this would always be tab-modal
  120. # [03:37] <zewt> (not window-modal)
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  125. # [03:44] <jamesr> zewt, maybe, but hober's proposal says that "the dialog is focused when displayed" which i don't think will really be true
  126. # [03:44] <jamesr> Hixie, valid, but <section> and <blockquote> have some meaning in the document of their own
  127. # [03:47] <Hixie> so does <dialog>
  128. # [03:47] <Hixie> it means "this is going to be used for a dialog"
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  130. # [03:49] <Hixie> (more importantly, maybe, it's display:none by default, so in non-CSS UAs you don't have to worry about the dialog showing when not active)
  131. # [03:51] <zewt> jamesr: well, i'd expect it to be focused within the tab, but i wouldn't expect the tab to be focused within the browser (or the browser within the windowing system), no more than tab-modal alert()s are
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  134. # [03:52] <zewt> dreaming of the day all window-modal dialogs are eliminated (probably never, file pickers are hard)
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  242. # [09:58] <annevk> What are we adding to DOM Core?
  243. # [09:58] <annevk> nm
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  247. # [10:33] <annevk> finally removed myself from HyBi
  248. # [10:36] <annevk> AryehGregor, not having lots of hooks for the CSS box model is indeed somewhat of a pain
  249. # [10:37] <annevk> s/somewhat of//
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  251. # [10:51] <annevk> It seems I want to get out of happiana too
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  276. # [12:54] <annevk> can't we set an auto-reply for public-html-comments that tells people to file a bug instead?
  277. # [12:54] <annevk> the current process is somewhat annoying in that people reply to emails but then those replies do not get captured in the corresponding bug reports
  278. # [12:54] <annevk> MikeSmith, ^^
  279. # [12:55] <MikeSmith> I guess we could, yeah
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  281. # [12:58] <Philip`> Or just shut down the list and tell people to file bugs instead of telling them to post there first?
  282. # [13:00] <annevk> well yeah that would be part of it
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  308. # [15:12] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: You have a testsuite for DOM Core somewhere, no?
  309. # [15:12] <Ms2ger> dvcs.w3.org/hg/webapps/DOMCore
  310. # [15:14] <gsnedders> How complete is that?
  311. # [15:17] <Ms2ger> Not at all
  312. # [15:17] <Ms2ger> More tests welcome
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  317. # [15:35] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Disclaimer: procrastination may happen.
  318. # [15:35] <Ms2ger> Same with me, so that's fine
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  321. # [16:00] <jarek> Hi
  322. # [16:00] <jarek> is it possible to define custom DOM events?
  323. # [16:01] <jarek> I mean something like: "document.addEventListener('myCustomEvent', handler() {}, false)"
  324. # [16:01] <jarek> is it possible without creating wrapper function on top of document.addEventListener?
  325. # [16:03] <annevk> yes
  326. # [16:05] <jarek> annevk: what API should I be looking for?
  327. # [16:06] <jarek> I'm currently fire and assign custom events with bind() and trigger() functions, but I think in some cases it would be more elegant to use the same syntax as for core DOM events
  328. # [16:06] <jarek> s/I'm currently fire and assign/I'm currently firing and assigning
  329. # [16:06] <jarek> sorry for typos
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  331. # [16:10] <annevk> you can do document.createEvent in current browsers
  332. # [16:10] <annevk> and target.dispatchEvent()
  333. # [16:11] <jarek> awesome, exactly what I needed
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  342. # [16:38] <jarek> "linkElement.href" always returns absolute path while "linkElement.getAttribute('href')" may return either absolute or relative path
  343. # [16:38] <jarek> is this behavior the same on all browsers?
  344. # [16:41] <jarek> hmm... looks like it's by design as I can reproduce it on every browser
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  346. # [16:49] <smaug____> jarek: getAttribute() returns the content attribute value
  347. # [16:49] <smaug____> so whatever value the attribute has
  348. # [16:50] <smaug____> .href returns what is specified in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#attr-link-href
  349. # [16:51] <smaug____> oh, hmm
  350. # [16:51] <smaug____> is there a bug in the spec
  351. # [16:52] <smaug____> no
  352. # [16:52] <smaug____> "If a reflecting IDL attribute is a DOMString attribute whose content attribute is defined to contain a URL, then on getting, the IDL attribute must resolve the value of the content attribute relative to the element and return the resulting absolute URL"
  353. # 03[16:55] * Joins: cying (~cying@c-71-202-136-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  354. # [16:57] <Ms2ger> smaug____, no bug for once? :)
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  358. # [17:22] <smaug____> Ms2ger: are you hinting that I occasionally complain about bugs in the HTML spec ;)
  359. # [17:22] <Ms2ger> Perhaps once in a while ;)
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  362. # [17:32] <smaug____> hmm, not much feedback to the new mutation events replacement proposal. Perhaps I should just implement it and write down how the implementation works and call it a spec.
  363. # [17:32] <Ms2ger> WFM
  364. # [17:33] <Ms2ger> Can you provide it in a format I can c&p into DOM Core? :)
  365. # [17:35] <smaug____> Ms2ger: Btw, what kind of template or some such is used for DOM Core
  366. # [17:35] <Ms2ger> Plain old HTML
  367. # [17:36] <Ms2ger> With some magic for cross-referencing
  368. # [17:36] <smaug____> so no special tools which generate right kind of HTML?
  369. # [17:36] <Ms2ger> No
  370. # [17:36] <Ms2ger> See http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.src.html
  371. # 06[17:37] * smaug____ has used some old W3C XSLT templates which work quite ok
  372. # 06[17:37] * Ms2ger runs for the hills
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  376. # [17:48] <Ms2ger> if (document.all == null) {
  377. # [17:48] <Ms2ger> Good morning, whatwg
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  396. # [18:59] <Hixie> MikeSmith: if you're doing this bug filing manually anyway, it might be worth making your script give you a way to split e-mails into one-bug-per-issue, even if it's just having it ask you how many issues, and then it filing the same bug N times with an additional comment "This is for issue 3 of 6" or whatever
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  398. # [19:02] <zewt> what the
  399. # [19:02] <Hixie> what?
  400. # [19:02] <zewt> oh
  401. # [19:03] <zewt> it looked like greader changed their external links to some broken javascripty thing ... but looks like an isolated bug
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  407. # [19:11] <annevk> smaug____, maybe post it as separate thread with mark 2 or v2 attached to the subject? implementing it wfm though
  408. # [19:15] <annevk> www-style should really start recommending people to post use cases instead of feature requests. I mean: "I suggest to consider six new pseudo elements for the Generated Content module, although I’m not entirely sure they would be all that useful: ..."
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  431. # [21:08] <Ms2ger> Philip`, :(
  432. # 02[21:08] * Quits: zdobersek (~zan@cpe-46-164-13-36.dynamic.amis.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  433. # 10[21:10] * krijnhuman does foo
  434. # [21:10] * krijnhuman does bar
  435. # [21:11] * Ms2ger waves at krijnhuman
  436. # [21:11] * krijnhuman is now known as krijnh
  437. # [21:11] <krijnh> zcorpan: color codes, apparently, turned them off now
  438. # [21:12] <krijnh> o/ Ms2ger
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  440. # [21:19] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Syntax Error, expected } got EOF
  441. # [21:19] <Ms2ger> mm?
  442. # [21:20] <jgraham> You startd an if block some time ago
  443. # [21:20] <Ms2ger> I did
  444. # [21:20] <Ms2ger> }
  445. # [21:20] <Ms2ger> There you go
  446. # [21:20] <jgraham> Yay, now I can read the scrollback!
  447. # [21:22] <Ms2ger> You're welcome(
  448. # [21:22] <annevk> trololol
  449. # [21:22] <gsnedders> jgraham: You could improve your syntax error messages to note where the opening brace was.
  450. # [21:22] <Ms2ger> Better here than on public-webapps, I guess
  451. # [21:24] <jgraham> gsnedders: and kitchen design shops could provide price lists. Sadly it doesn't show any signs of happening.
  452. # [21:25] <Ms2ger> Getting settled?
  453. # [21:25] <jgraham> That remains to be seen
  454. # [21:26] <gsnedders> jgraham: Much packing left?
  455. # [21:26] <jgraham> gsnedders: Katie is insanely efficient.
  456. # [21:27] <Ms2ger> To the point where it's more efficient if you just stay out of her way? :)
  457. # [21:28] <jgraham> Erm, no comment? :)
  458. # [21:28] <Ms2ger> :)
  459. # [21:29] <gsnedders> Letting $girl do packing worked quite well when I moved a couple of months back
  460. # [21:30] <jgraham> gsnedders: Your girlfriend is variable?
  461. # [21:31] <gsnedders> jgraham: Well, I don't expect to have a single girlfriend for my entire life, so yes.
  462. # [21:31] <gsnedders> Otherwise breaking-up would be quite hard, if it had been declared as a constant.
  463. # [21:32] * Ms2ger wonders if gsnedders->$girl found out about IRC logs already
  464. # [21:32] <Hixie> actually it'd be easier, you'd just overwrite the memory location where the value is kept and you'd instantly assign all previous memories to the new girl.
  465. # [21:32] <jgraham> Ah, so functional relationships are like functional languages; single assignment
  466. # [21:32] <Hixie> and the compiler would be none the wiser
  467. # [21:32] <Ms2ger> Hixie, also the reasons for breaking up? That seems suboptimal
  468. # [21:32] <Hixie> well i'm not saying it's optimal
  469. # [21:32] <Hixie> just that it wouldn't be hard
  470. # [21:32] <jgraham> (alternative worldview: functional relationships are like functional langauges: optimised for concurrency)
  471. # [21:32] <gsnedders> jgraham: in most functional langauges you don't assign per-se.
  472. # [21:33] * annevk facepalms
  473. # [21:33] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: it is possible she has
  474. # [21:36] <Hixie> in other news, i have a computer with a dead disk. i can dd(1) to it all i want so long as i don't hit the bad parts, but as soon as i hit a bad bit, /dev/sda becomes completely inaccessible to any program. wtf.
  475. # [21:36] <jgraham> (I should maybe point out in the intereests of having a functional relationship that I don't subscribe to the lternative worldview)
  476. # [21:36] <jgraham> +A
  477. # [21:36] <Hixie> jgraham: ain't nothing wrong with polyamoury.
  478. # [21:37] <Ms2ger> Hixie, I await a long series of blog posts on your disk problems :)
  479. # [21:37] <Hixie> (so long as everyone involved is ok with it)
  480. # [21:37] <Ms2ger> It'll almost feel like 05
  481. # [21:37] <Hixie> Ms2ger: it's already begun :-P
  482. # [21:37] <jgraham> Hixie: I made no moral statements
  483. # [21:37] <jgraham> (and generally agree)
  484. # [21:39] <gsnedders> ($girl = $girls->pop() then?)
  485. # [21:39] <jgraham> gsnedders: You keep your girls on a stack?
  486. # [21:40] <gsnedders> jgraham: Yes, otherwise the route needed to visit them all becomes needlessly wrong.
  487. # [21:40] <gsnedders> (wrong? long.)
  488. # [21:41] * jgraham is very confused
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  490. # [21:41] <gsnedders> jgraham: I make sure they are on stack in the order needed to minimise the distance to visit them sequentically
  491. # [21:42] <Philip`> It's annoying when you pop your girl and have to reinflate her
  492. # [21:42] <gsnedders> Philip`: yeah, girl v. girls is an easily made typo
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  495. # [21:50] <jarek> why "blur" event fires when I click on iframe inside the window?
  496. # [21:51] <jarek> is it possible to prevent it from firing in this situation?
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  498. # [21:55] <jgraham> Generally you can't stop events firing, but there is no real need to do anything with the ones you don't want
  499. # [21:55] <jgraham> Well you can preventDefault of course
  500. # [21:56] <smaug____> preventDefault() doesn't do anything with blur
  501. # [21:59] <jarek> jgraham: but I need to prevent this event only when iframe inside window is clicked, not when window loses focus to some other window
  502. # [21:59] <jarek> I have no idea how to do this
  503. # [21:59] <jarek> as blur event does not provide any information about what causes the blur
  504. # [22:03] <jgraham> jarek: I'm not sure what you are trying to do, but I don't think you can do what you are requesting
  505. # [22:04] <jgraham> Fun game: Read http://blog.n01se.net/?p=375 and work out how many of the listed specs are at W3C. Then subtract the ones that were imported wholesale into the W3C without changes
  506. # [22:04] <jgraham> (or almost without changes)
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  540. # Session Close: Sun Aug 07 00:00:00 2011

The end :)