/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-08-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 14 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  15. # [01:30] <The_8472> <jarek> I have an app that shows a preview of the website, I would like to put a horizontal line in the place where page fold is <- uh yeah... how about different screen sizes?
  16. # [01:31] <The_8472> or even browser viewport sizes
  17. # [01:31] <The_8472> ah damn, he quit
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  19. # [01:31] <gesa> Clearly I have been spending too much time in THE FUTURE because I just assumed it was all adaptive...
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  21. # [01:33] <The_8472> the point is that it can change, so how can you adapt to future changes?
  22. # [01:35] <gesa> I suppose it depends entirely on the use case.
  23. # [01:36] <The_8472> probably, yes. but if it's about trying to optimize for any particular size then it would be a bad idea
  24. # [01:36] <gesa> I concur. The idea of optimizing for a specific size didn't even occur to me because I forgot people still do that.
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  26. # [01:38] <The_8472> i had to fight tooth and nail to get *one* dynamic width page into a 1024x786 "optimized" (read: fixed width layout) backend to cram all that information in there
  27. # [01:40] <gesa> I don't follow. One site with a fixed width layout and a single dynamic width page? What do you mean 1024x786 backend?
  28. # [01:43] <gesa> (bear with me. I've been coding html email all day. brain kaput.)
  29. # [01:43] <The_8472> corporate software with a web interface. it's using a fixed width layout, optimized for that resolution. and they wanted an overview page where you can get all the relevant information at one glance (if possible)
  30. # [01:43] <gesa> oh jesus.
  31. # [01:43] <The_8472> so to cram as much information onto a single page i proposed a dynamic width layout to make use of the screen space on larger monitors
  32. # [01:43] <The_8472> of course i was rattling on some sacrosanct "guidelines" there...
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  122. # [12:17] <annevk> There are three bugs on caretBlinkRate but there is no such feature in the specification? Am I missing something?
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  125. # [12:27] <Ms2ger> Might be a W3Cism
  126. # [12:28] <annevk> http://dev.w3.org/html5/2dcontext/ cannot find it
  127. # [12:29] <annevk> oh wait I can
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  129. # [12:33] <annevk> I guess Microsoft will implement that feature?
  130. # [12:33] <annevk> Is anyone planning on implementing it?
  131. # [12:35] <Ms2ger> Don't see a bug over here
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  137. # [13:05] <annevk> Does anyone know if it is easy to file RFC errata?
  138. # [13:06] <annevk> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2388 talks about application/x-url-encoded rather than application/x-www-form-urlencoded
  139. # [13:10] <Philip`> Does anybody bother to read errata?
  140. # [13:11] * Philip` usually forgets about them even if he's aware there's an errata page, so they seem a bit useless :-(
  141. # [13:12] <annevk> I guess at some point there's enough bugs to consider issuing a new draft
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  144. # [13:34] <rabbi1> how can i get "A List Apart" code ?
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  147. # [13:55] <gsnedders> annevk: AFAIK it's not too hard if the authors of the RFC care at all, if you just follow the normal form
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  150. # [14:17] <asmodai> Mmm
  151. # [14:17] <asmodai> interesting
  152. # [14:18] <asmodai> So Safari 5.1 tries to do MathML
  153. # [14:18] <asmodai> I wonder what it is trying to use for a font for part of this rendering
  154. # [14:18] <asmodai> Giving me boxes for parts of the rendering (mostly braces and the likes)
  155. # [14:21] <annevk> Ah I found a form
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  157. # [14:27] <annevk> http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=2388&eid=2937 done
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  173. # [16:01] <david_carlisle> asmodai:on safari mathml, it probably assumes stix fonts (which i gather are distributed with the latest osx, or are freely available otherwise.
  174. # [16:01] <asmodai> ah
  175. # [16:02] <asmodai> david_carlisle: will install those later. thought it would have sensible defaults to the Win 7 math fonts
  176. # [16:02] <asmodai> ff at least does.
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  178. # [16:03] <asmodai> jeez, they really need to update their site again
  179. # [16:04] <david_carlisle> asmodai: it would be even more sensible if the cambria math windows font was distributed with a licence that meant it could be used on other platfoms (like the original ms core fonts)
  180. # [16:09] <gsnedders> david_carlisle: There's no way MS is going to do that again, though, sadly. They consider fonts too much of a competitive advantage now…
  181. # [16:09] <david_carlisle> gsnedders: probbaly, shame though as it's a nice font.
  182. # [16:10] <gsnedders> Indeed. Nobody buys an OS because of what fonts it has, so it's not really an advantage.
  183. # [16:14] <zewt> sure they do
  184. # [16:14] <zewt> if Joe Consumer sees linux next to windows in a store, and due to having second-rate fonts linux looks unpolished next to Windows, that'll easily nudge decisions a little
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  190. # [16:42] <gsnedders> zewt: Well, okay, but by-and-large fonts are "good enough".
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  193. # [17:01] <annevk> Has anyone tallied email on www-tag?
  194. # [17:01] <annevk> E.g. useful vs euh what is going on?
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  198. # [17:05] <jarek> Hi
  199. # [17:06] <jarek> is there any standard describing which CSS featuers should be supported in print stylesheets?
  200. # [17:06] <Ms2ger> All of them
  201. # [17:06] <jarek> but most browsers ignore e.g. outlines and backgrounds
  202. # [17:07] <jarek> which of course make sense
  203. # [17:07] <jarek> is this behavior non-standard?
  204. # [17:07] <jarek> s/make/makes
  205. # [17:07] <Ms2ger> "The following are links to the Editor's draft of the geolocation documents, they are not final and should NOT be relied upon by implementors."
  206. # [17:07] <Ms2ger> Nice one
  207. # [17:07] <Ms2ger> jarek, see the thread on www-style
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  209. # [17:11] <jarek> Ms2ger: do you mean this thread? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Aug/0269.html
  210. # [17:11] <Ms2ger> Yep
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  214. # [17:13] <jarek> is there a reference table that would list which CSS properties are not supported by browsers when using print media type?
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  218. # [17:46] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins, why don't you just make zero-height and zero-width radial gradients invalid syntax, so they get ignored? Is there any use for them?
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  220. # [17:54] <astearns> normal, legitimate gradients under transforms approach zero-width and zero-height, so we still need to decide what to do with them
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  273. # [20:19] <webben> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-xml/2011Aug/0010.html : because Microsoft is well keen on "portable" file formats. ;)
  274. # [20:22] <Ms2ger> He might agree with annevk, but I doubt annevk would agree with him
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  276. # [20:22] <Ms2ger> Anyway, happy I stayed out of that
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  281. # [20:30] <Philip`> So Microsoft should fully implement HTML5 (plus CURIEs) in XSD1.1 in order to help solve the US healthcare crisis?
  282. # [20:30] <Philip`> Sounds like a good plan to me
  283. # [20:30] <webben> Yes that was also ... an interesting suggesting.
  284. # [20:30] <webben> *suggestion
  285. # [20:31] <MikeSmith> webben: thanks fighting the good fight in bugzilla, man
  286. # [20:31] * Ms2ger wonder where webben had a fight
  287. # [20:31] <webben> MikeSmith: Hey, yw :)
  288. # [20:32] * Ms2ger also wonder why can't tpye
  289. # [20:32] <MikeSmith> Philip`: can anybody really claim at this point that a giant red fag was not raised about CURIEs a gazillion years ago?
  290. # [20:33] <Ms2ger> A giant red fag?
  291. # [20:33] <MikeSmith> um
  292. # [20:33] <MikeSmith> FLAG
  293. # [20:34] <Ms2ger> Oh
  294. # [20:34] <Ms2ger> Yes, that does make more sense
  295. # [20:34] <MikeSmith> typing on iPad is an adventure
  296. # [20:36] <Philip`> Choosing a name strongly associated with cancer doesn't seem like a good sign either :-(
  297. # [20:36] <Ms2ger> Philip`++
  298. # [20:37] <MikeSmith> anyway, the message now appears to be, WE are the ones willing to compromise, and you are not. therefore we are justified in continuing the same bs we havw
  299. # [20:37] <MikeSmith> oops
  300. # [20:37] <MikeSmith> anyway
  301. # [20:38] <MikeSmith> said enough already I guess
  302. # [20:38] <Ms2ger> Well, that's better than "Our design is cleaner. therefore we are justified in continuing the same bs"
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  304. # [20:39] <MikeSmith> dunno
  305. # [20:39] <Ms2ger> What about "it's not worse"?
  306. # [20:40] <MikeSmith> but really, what pressure for change would there have ever been unless microdata had come along
  307. # [20:40] <MikeSmith> I wonder
  308. # [20:41] <Philip`> They should have called it an Abbreviated URI Character-Lessening Encoding, for a more ear-related association, or something along those lines
  309. # [20:41] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, meh, wondering... I prefer ranting on public-webapps :)
  310. # [20:42] <MikeSmith> yeah, well, microdata was clearly not a mistake
  311. # [20:42] <MikeSmith> however dudes might like to try to rewrite history now
  312. # [20:42] <Ms2ger> Ah, but the winners get to do that
  313. # [20:43] <Ms2ger> So if Hixie ever gets bored of this kind of science fiction, he can write his autobiography
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  315. # [20:44] <MikeSmith> oh man
  316. # [20:44] <Philip`> Rewriting history after you've won is less useful than rewriting history while you're still fighting in order to help you win
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  318. # [20:45] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: that would sell like hotcakes for sure
  319. # [20:45] <Ms2ger> I'd buy one
  320. # [20:46] <Ms2ger> But only if I get an autograph
  321. # [20:46] <MikeSmith> Philip`: no winners here, unfortunately
  322. # [20:47] <MikeSmith> just an should-have-been-avoidable mess
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  325. # [20:51] <Philip`> Ms2ger: Traditional autobiographies are obsolete before they've even been printed - it ought to be a continually-updated living autobiography instead
  326. # [20:51] <Philip`> I guess you could tell a lot about people's attempts to rewrite history if the history had an SVN log
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  358. # [23:04] <Hixie> i may have to temporarily disable pdf production unless someone else wants to provide a web service that i can call to get them generated
  359. # [23:05] <Hixie> right now the setup i have is spiking ram consumption over 1GB each time they are generated and i don't have the time to go fix it
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  364. # [23:15] <Hixie> christ the websocket protocol has been messed up
  365. # [23:15] <Hixie> i just noticed that they totally broke how the origin headers work and the spec self-contradicts itself all over about it
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  371. # [23:34] <yuhong> Is hsivonen here?
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  373. # [23:36] <Philip`> yuhong: No
  374. # [23:36] <yuhong> I was going to report an internal error.
  375. # [23:37] <yuhong> Validate anandtech.com using validator.nu.
  376. # [23:37] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  383. # Session Close: Mon Aug 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)