/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-09-11 / end

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  53. # [02:59] <RytoEX> Good evening! Does anyone have any idea why HTML5 no longer supports colspan="0" on the TD element? What was the thought/discussion process that led to that decision? Thanks!
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  187. # [16:36] <AryehGregor> zcorpan, currently the spec says to change all existing links that overlap the selection, then make sure the whole selection is a link. So if you do execcommand('createlink', false, 'x') on <a href=y>fo[o</a>b<a href=z>ar</a>ba]z, you get <a href=x>fo[obarba]</a>z.
  188. # [16:37] <AryehGregor> The behavior you describe doesn't make as much sense to me.
  189. # [16:37] <AryehGregor> Likewise, per spec, if you do it on <a href=y>f[]oo</a>, it becomes <a href=x>f[]oo</a>.
  190. # [16:37] <AryehGregor> This matches IE and word processors, IIRC (check comments in spec to be sure).
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  198. # [17:28] <aho> are there any browsers which support video files in img tags? (w/o audio of course)
  199. # [17:29] <aho> i'm really tired of those gigantic animated gifs
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  201. # [17:31] <rillian> I don't think so
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  210. # [18:04] <zewt> that's what <video> is for, not <img>, heh
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  214. # [18:14] <aho> zewt, yes
  215. # [18:15] <aho> but it's a fact that people use gifs for this
  216. # [18:16] <aho> video files would be easily 10 times smaller while looking much better
  217. # [18:16] <aho> additionally, they would use less ram
  218. # [18:16] <aho> (gifs are completely decompressed)
  219. # [18:18] <Philip`> Adding a new mechanism for displaying videos wouldn't change any of those facts
  220. # [18:20] <zewt> aho: yes, and that's what <video> is for :)
  221. # [18:20] <aho> well, people use gifs for these things, because many boards only allow images
  222. # [18:21] <zewt> i don't think <img> should be a double for <video> to work around boards not allowing <video> tags yet :)
  223. # [18:21] <aho> yes, idealism is a great thing :>
  224. # [18:22] <zewt> not idealism at all; and on the web platform, impatience is not a great thing :)
  225. # [18:22] <zewt> (also, I don't *want* people to be able to insert videos into their forum signatures)
  226. # [18:23] <aho> but you'd be fine with animated gifs which are 10 times larger?
  227. # [18:23] <zewt> much lower CPU usage
  228. # [18:23] <zewt> vs. firing up a decoder framework
  229. # [18:23] <zewt> (or 100 of them for everyone's separate videosig)
  230. # [18:25] <zewt> video decoders are hardly optimized for dozens of simultaneous 10-frame 128x128 videos
  231. # [18:27] <aho> http://www.lolbrary.com/lolpics/684/rolling-out-the-tarp-fail-6684.gif
  232. # [18:27] <aho> 3,673,639 bytes
  233. # [18:27] <zewt> and if someone puts that in their sig on a forum it should be cleared and they should be banned from setting sigs
  234. # [18:28] <aho> no one used that as sig
  235. # [18:29] <zewt> so? if that shows up for any reason on a forum the person who caused it to show up should be smacked and it deleted, heh
  236. # [18:29] <aho> well, it's from a pure "what people *are* doing" point of view
  237. # [18:29] <annevk> zewt, I think encoding < and > is encouraged by the URI specifications
  238. # [18:29] <aho> just like people are using gigantig png32 images because there isn't anything better
  239. # [18:30] <aho> *gigantic
  240. # [18:30] <annevk> zewt, but the URI specifications, well...
  241. # [18:30] <zewt> so again, if you want <video> support in forums, get it added directly--html shouldn't be smushing all functionality into a single tag so developers don't need to do any work, heh
  242. # [18:30] <aho> if no better alternative is offered, people will continue to use the awful option
  243. # [18:30] <zewt> annevk: i've never read it; really I don't even know why we have separate "URL" and "URI" and the whole thing seems nonsense
  244. # [18:31] <aho> and we're back to idealism. yes, <video> support would be nice :>
  245. # [18:31] <zewt> no, telling developers to implement something isn't "idealism", please stop calling it that
  246. # [18:32] <zewt> annevk: any idea *why* it would encourage escaping them?
  247. # [18:33] <aho> why not? it's "the right way"™
  248. # [18:33] <zewt> uh, no it isn't
  249. # [18:33] <zewt> how is conflating <img> with <video> "right"? heh
  250. # [18:33] <zewt> or are you saying that doing things the right way is always idealism? heh
  251. # [18:34] <aho> derailed. <video> support everyhwere... that's idealistic.... that's "the right way"
  252. # [18:34] <Philip`> Maybe someone should write a guide to safely whitelisting a subset of <video> (which presumably shouldn't be hard), then point web developers at that
  253. # [18:34] <aho> not the realistic one :>
  254. # [18:34] <zewt> there's nothing at all unrealistic about adding support for a <video> tag to forums which already support <img> and a bunch of other tags
  255. # [18:35] <aho> it's unrealistic to see that kind of change within the next 10 years
  256. # [18:35] <aho> it just wont happen :)
  257. # [18:36] <Philip`> It doesn't need to be supported by every site before it'll be useful
  258. # [18:36] <zewt> adding the tag to phpbb and other forum software should take a few days; a few years for major forum sites to upgrade to it
  259. # [18:36] <Philip`> (unless adding features to browsers, where you need every widely-used browser version to support it before it's useful)
  260. # [18:36] <zewt> (as for proprietary, one-off forums; they're their own problem)
  261. # [18:36] <Philip`> s/unless/unlike/
  262. # [18:37] <aho> so far some forums support youtube
  263. # [18:37] <aho> that's it
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  265. # [18:37] <zewt> you're suggesting either 1: adding a crippled subset of <video> to <img> or 2: massively complicating <img> (forever) so one particular type of website can be lazy, heh
  266. # [18:38] <zewt> of course nobody's using video *yet*, since it's still a mess (codecs)
  267. # [18:38] <zewt> (sledgehammering it into img wouldn't change that)
  268. # [18:38] <aho> you can also put animated svgs into img
  269. # [18:38] <aho> i dont really see the difference
  270. # [18:38] <zewt> heh surprised http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14108 wasn't closed as WONTFIX
  271. # [18:39] <aho> figure out the mime type... do the appropriate thing
  272. # [18:39] <aho> it already does that
  273. # [18:41] <zewt> that's essentially legacy
  274. # [18:41] <zewt> (as far as I'm concerned, anyway)
  275. # [18:42] <zewt> i dunno, but i'd be a bit annoyed if I ran a site allowing embedded images and suddenly users could embed videos, heh
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  277. # [18:44] <aho> well... nothing would have changed, really. the only difference is better quality and smaller files
  278. # [18:44] <zewt> and much higher CPU use, and possibly audio
  279. # [18:44] <aho> as i said, there wouldn't be any audio
  280. # [18:44] <zewt> also for the sort of things you want video files for you often want to be able to pause and resume and seek, which img would never give you
  281. # [18:45] <aho> just like there is no js execution for svgs
  282. # [18:46] <aho> pause, resume, seek, audio, etc... gotta use <video> then
  283. # [18:46] <zewt> and unless the codec situation somehow clears up (heh) you'll need some way to supply alternate links with fallback codecs; that'd need site support regardless
  284. # [18:51] <aho> basically, i just hate large animated gifs. that's all there is to it
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  357. # [23:28] <gsnedders> Was NaCL ever bundled into Chrome?
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  369. # Session Close: Mon Sep 12 00:00:00 2011

The end :)