/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-09-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 27 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  25. # [00:23] <Hixie> AryehGregor: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13425#c6
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  44. # [01:06] <Hixie> anyone know how i can test http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12199 ?
  45. # [01:06] <Hixie> I don't really know ISO-2022-JP :-/
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  49. # [01:19] <MikeSmith> Hixie: I can give you some ISO-2022-JP content, if that does you any good
  50. # [01:19] <Hixie> it might
  51. # [01:20] <Hixie> reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_2022 has not helped me in the slightest except to make me rather more alarmed
  52. # [01:22] <MikeSmith> Hixie: http://people.w3.org/mike/tests/iso-2022-jp-mail.txt
  53. # [01:22] <MikeSmith> fwiw
  54. # [01:23] <MikeSmith> oh, hang on
  55. # [01:23] <MikeSmith> I'll set the content-type on the web server for that properly
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  63. # [01:34] <MikeSmith> Hixie: content-type is set correctly on that file now
  64. # [01:34] <MikeSmith> again, fwiw
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  67. # [01:54] <Hixie> MikeSmith: thanks, will look
  68. # [01:54] * Hixie pipes it through hexdump -C
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  71. # [01:56] <Hixie> hmmm
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  73. # [01:57] <Hixie> ok now to create a form that submits that
  74. # [01:59] <Hixie> in what encoding is &eacute; 0xc3 0xa9 ?
  75. # [01:59] <Hixie> wait, i have a tool to figure that out i think
  76. # [02:00] <Hixie> none that i know of, bummer
  77. # [02:01] <Hixie> well this isn't encoding as 2022, that's for sure
  78. # [02:01] * Hixie pokes
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  80. # [02:02] <Hixie> ooh, here we go
  81. # [02:02] <Hixie> 1b 24 42
  82. # [02:03] <Hixie> aha, ESC $ B to switch to JIS X 0208-1983 (2 bytes per character)
  83. # [02:03] <Hixie> which matches what that e-mail has
  84. # [02:03] <Hixie> well well
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  111. # [02:45] <Hixie> ok i need an ASCII-compatible encoding in which you can switch to a mode where 0x20 is not a space but is still an assigned codepoint (or part of one).
  112. # [02:45] <Hixie> anyone? :-)
  113. # [02:45] <Hixie> i feel like iso-2022 should provide the answer but it's proving quite impenetrable
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  118. # [03:02] <mkanat> Hixie: That would make it not ASCII-compatible, wouldn't it?
  119. # [03:04] * ayo circles "switch to a mode"
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  122. # [03:07] <ayo> wouldn't utf-8 and U+0120 and the like do the trick?
  123. # [03:09] <ayo> 0120 Ġ 0220 ɐ 0320 ʹ 0420 Р 0520 Ẁ
  124. # [03:09] <mkanat> Ahh, switch to a mode.
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  148. # [04:06] <Hixie> ayo: hmm, utf-8 might be an option, at least for "part of one"
  149. # [04:06] <ayo> :)
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  185. # [05:46] <MikeSmith> Hixie: thanks for the quick reply to John Gregg on public-web-notification
  186. # [05:47] <MikeSmith> that spec has been languishing for a while
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  188. # [05:47] <MikeSmith> would be nice to get it refined and actually implemented
  189. # [05:47] <MikeSmith> that is, implemented in more than one browser
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  224. # [08:33] <Hixie> MikeSmith: yeah.
  225. # [08:33] <Hixie> MikeSmith: we really need to give spec writing lessons or something.
  226. # [08:33] <Hixie> MikeSmith: so many elementary things that few people understand
  227. # [08:33] <Hixie> MikeSmith: like the event olop
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  229. # [08:34] <MikeSmith> well, some people like me learn best the hard way
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  231. # [08:36] <MikeSmith> so doesn't always help me to get the lessons ahead of time, because I either am not just listening carefully then, or I'd forget by the time I get to doing whatever it is I need to do
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  233. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> I think the best thing is for editors to get on IRC and ask
  234. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> while they are in the process of writing
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  236. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> ask for feedback, ask for help when not sure about something
  237. # [08:38] <Hixie> getting the editors onto irc would be a good step forward
  238. # [08:40] <MikeSmith> I guess editors should actually read the HTML5 spec as well
  239. # [08:40] <MikeSmith> the "Web application APIs" at the very least
  240. # [08:40] <Hixie> not to mention the intro and infrastructure sections
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  283. # [10:07] <annevk> so yeah we are not going to have more than one ID per element
  284. # [10:07] <annevk> if we align all specifications with the DOM ID concept that is
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  294. # [10:20] <annevk> Hixie, so if you just have a single header row you should still use <thead> you think?
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  309. # [10:36] <hsivonen> looks like Joe Hewitt is now defining "the Web" the way Tim Bray has been defining it for a while: http://joehewitt.com/post/what-the-web-is-and-is-not/
  310. # [10:37] <hsivonen> short version: Android and iOS advocates want to call their stuff the Web
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  315. # [10:39] <annevk> I am now even more confused
  316. # [10:40] <annevk> First he wants one browser, now he wants new browsers...
  317. # [10:41] <annevk> In a couple of days HTML might not be that bad after all
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  326. # [10:49] <jgraham> Using google.com in chrome isn't using the web?
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  328. # [10:51] <hsivonen> jgraham: I thought "Web" was one of Google's services alongside +, Gmail, Calendar, Documents, Photos and Sites
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  331. # [10:52] <hsivonen> jgraham: "Web" is to GApps what Windows Desktop is to Metro :-)
  332. # [10:58] <hsivonen> looks like ze frank is another person who is famous enough for Google to bend their Real Names Policy
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  507. # [17:46] * dglazkov|away is now known as dglazkov
  508. # [17:47] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  512. # [17:51] <charlvn> hi dglazkov
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  514. # [17:58] <timeless> > Wonderful. We've no tracker, so try not to lose the slip of paper :-)
  515. # [17:58] * timeless chuckles
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  543. # [18:45] <jwalden> !summon ayo
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  547. # [18:54] <GlitchMr42> http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html
  548. # [18:54] <GlitchMr42> 404
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  552. # [18:56] <gavin> hrm
  553. # [18:56] <gavin> I should fix that
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  560. # [18:59] <jwalden> gavin: why the log-rotation into old/?
  561. # [18:59] <gavin> welcome gavin_. he will generate stats for you.
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  563. # [19:00] <gavin> jwalden: the machine previously logging/generating stats has moved to my parents basement
  564. # [19:00] <jwalden> heh
  565. # [19:00] <gavin> the new machine doing it has a smaller set of logs
  566. # [19:00] <gavin> rather than lose the historical stats I just moved them over to /old/
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  579. # [19:23] <gavin> http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html
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  586. # [19:33] * bga_|away is now known as bga_
  587. # [19:38] <Hixie> ok i need an ASCII-compatible encoding in which you can switch to a mode where 0x20 is not a space but is still an assigned codepoint (or part of one).
  588. # [19:39] <Hixie> can't use utf-16, as it's not ascii-compatible
  589. # [19:39] <Hixie> iso-2022-jp seems like the way to go but i can't work it out :-/
  590. # [19:43] <AryehGregor> Isn't such an encoding non-ASCII-compatible, by construction?
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  604. # [20:09] <hober> AryehGregor: ascii-compatible when in another mode
  605. # [20:10] <hober> AryehGregor: but not while in the weird-0x20-mode
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  617. # [20:30] <AryehGregor> Seriously? Google Docs doesn't allow font sizes below 8pt or line spacing below 1.00? How are you supposed to do a half-line break?
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  619. # [20:30] <AryehGregor> Real users don't need precise control over font size or line spacing, I guess, right?
  620. # [20:30] <AryehGregor> . . .
  621. # Session Close: Tue Sep 27 20:33:44 2011
  622. #
  623. # Session Start: Tue Sep 27 20:33:44 2011
  624. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  628. # [20:34] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  629. # [20:34] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 23:03:06
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  636. # [20:47] <Hixie> AryehGregor: what hober said
  637. # [20:48] <Hixie> looks like 0x20 is always a space in sio-2022-jp
  638. # [20:48] <Hixie> iso
  639. # [20:48] <Hixie> maybe there simply isn't an encoding with the property i describe
  640. # [20:49] <Hixie> that would certainly make my life easier
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  642. # [20:50] <hober> Hixie: such an encoding would be perverted
  643. # [20:50] <Hixie> there are plenty of perverted encodings
  644. # [20:50] <Hixie> iso-2022-jp
  645. # [20:50] <Hixie> utf-7
  646. # [20:50] <hober> indeed
  647. # [20:50] <Hixie> cesu
  648. # [20:51] <Hixie> gsm03.38
  649. # [20:51] <Hixie> ebcdic
  650. # [20:51] <Hixie> and variants of the above
  651. # [20:51] <Philip`> Someone could always make up an encoding which has the property you describe
  652. # [20:51] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  653. # [20:51] <Hixie> just to name a few!
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  655. # [20:52] <Hixie> Philip`: sure, but my concern only exists if it's an encoding that has legacy content to worry about (so i can't ban it)
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  663. # [21:08] <jmb> Hixie: last I looked, iso 2022 didn't permit the redefinition of 0x20 (or 0x7f, for that matter) even if you redefined the mapping of G0.
  664. # [21:08] <Hixie> yeah that seems to indeed be the case
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  666. # [21:08] <Hixie> i've decided to just assume no encodings allow it for now
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  668. # [21:10] <jmb> that sounds sane :)
  669. # [21:10] <Ms2ger> In that case, it's probably wrong
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  674. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + <p class=note>This form data set encoding is in many ways an
  675. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + aberrant monstrosity, the result of many years of implementation
  676. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + accidents and compromises leading to a set of requirements necessary
  677. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + for interoperability, but in no way representing good design
  678. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + practices. In particular, readers are cautioned to pay close
  679. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + attention to the twisted details involving repeated (and in some
  680. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> + cases nested) conversions between character encodings and byte
  681. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> + sequences.</p>
  682. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> I love notes like that.
  683. # [21:17] * AryehGregor thinks he only has one or so in his own spec so far
  684. # [21:17] <Ms2ger> sheppy? Still trolling
  685. # [21:17] <Ms2ger> Me? Still not spelling well
  686. # [21:18] <Hixie> AryehGregor: i couldn't bring myself to checking in the change without apologising for it
  687. # [21:18] <Hixie> AryehGregor: hence that note :-)
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  690. #
  691. # Session Start: Tue Sep 27 21:24:21 2011
  692. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  696. # [21:25] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  697. # [21:25] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 23:03:06
  698. # [21:25] -hubbard.freenode.net:#whatwg- [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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  720. #
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  722. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  726. # [22:03] * Topic is 'WHATWG: http://www.whatwg.org/ -- logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/ -- stats: http://gavinsharp.com/irc/whatwg.html -- Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!'
  727. # [22:03] * Set by annevk42 on Mon Oct 19 23:03:06
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  757. # [22:46] <nlogax> should one be able to read dataTransfer stuff in a dragstart event? http://jsfiddle.net/9YK5s/1/
  758. # [22:47] <nlogax> trying to figure out some nice way to show where different kinds of stuff can be dropped
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  760. # [22:47] <nlogax> but first i have to read it... :D
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  781. # [23:38] <nlogax> Hixie: thoughts? :)
  782. # [23:38] <nlogax> spec says it's in "Read/write mode"
  783. # [23:38] <Hixie> hm?
  784. # [23:39] <nlogax> Hixie: tried to read DataTransfer data in a bubbling dragstart event, but failed. thought it was some bug.. but can't read it even in the listener that sets it.
  785. # [23:39] <nlogax> not sure what the spec says. it says read/write mode on one hand, but only mentions setting stuff on the other..
  786. # [23:39] * Hixie looks at the spec
  787. # [23:40] <nlogax> if you weren't around when i pasted the link, http://jsfiddle.net/9YK5s/1/
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  793. # [23:44] <Hixie> nlogax: per spec, dragstart should be able to read the data
  794. # [23:44] <Hixie> looking at your code now
  795. # [23:45] <Hixie> code looks fine
  796. # [23:45] <Hixie> dunno what's up
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  798. # [23:48] <nlogax> yeah me neither :)
  799. # [23:48] <nlogax> other than bug filing time
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The end :)