/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-10-23 / end

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  27. # [01:10] <zewt> heh, unreadable examples on msdn ... because, as usual, of someone using nonstandard tab stops
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  49. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> "You are really good master. It’s easy and enjoying to work with you."
  50. # [02:49] <MikeSmith> He is indifferent to music of Kraftwerk.
  51. # [02:50] <annevk> Well that explains it, Kraftwerk is awesome
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  61. # [03:02] <annevk> http://quuz.org/webvtt/ now with <title> and <h1>
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  65. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> I made some personal fashion changes recently
  66. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> this is my new look:
  67. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> http://www.oneyeartrip.com/2010/04/isawa-onsen.html
  68. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> feedback welcom
  69. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> oops
  70. # [03:25] <MikeSmith> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_88RoabsTacs/S92ZA4h7NDI/AAAAAAAACZ4/VBy0WeKWj9U/s1600/IMG_2060.JPG
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  93. # [04:35] <jarek> Hi
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  95. # [04:35] <jarek> what's the correct way for implementing toggle buttons with HTML5?
  96. # [04:35] <jarek> I can't find anything like <button type="toggle">
  97. # [04:36] <jarek> should I be doing it the old-fashioned way? (a couple of divs with click events attached to them)
  98. # [04:38] <jarek> but this won't work when uses keyboard for navigation
  99. # [04:41] <jarek> another idea is to have something like <button data-is-toggled="true">, but I would still need event listeners to to watch and update button state
  100. # [04:42] <jarek> s/uses/user uses
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  102. # [04:51] <Hixie> jarek: <input type=checkbox>
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  153. # [10:27] <annevk> why is string lastIndexOf not the same as array lastIndexOf
  154. # [10:27] <annevk> what insanity is this?
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  181. # [12:14] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: so do the canvas test-suite changes to add testharness.js need to be reviewed by anybody other than Philip` ?
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  183. # [12:14] <Ms2ger> Anyone who's interested, I guess :)
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  199. # [13:26] <annevk> why does onhashchange not expose old and new hash rather than old and new URL?
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  206. # [13:36] <hsivonen> hmm. the Reader version of Opera Mobile Labs allows getUserMedia go through without prompting the user
  207. # [13:37] <hsivonen> i.e. it turns on the camera without prompting the user
  208. # [13:37] <hsivonen> not cool
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  211. # [13:49] <zcorpan> hsivonen: "The device API does not have a user interface yet. This will be added soon.
  212. # [13:49] <zcorpan> These are proof of concept builds, and should be considered experimental and for developer use only."
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  215. # [13:56] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ok. I reported it as a bug anyway, because I didn't like having the camera turn on without permission
  216. # [13:58] <hsivonen> btw, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/blog//2011-10/2011-10-21.html is interesting as far as the implications of an "always allow" option goes for allowing a given origin access the camera or the microphone
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  218. # [14:06] <zcorpan> abarth: so does script need crossorigin=""? would it break the web to include an Origin header for script requests?
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  239. # [15:46] <adtykfhyipoh> Hey, is anyone here? I need help.
  240. # [15:47] <divya> ask adtykfhyipoh
  241. # [15:48] <adtykfhyipoh> Hey, I am building a javascript application, and I have an if statement, and in the condition, I need to know if one variable equals the value of any item in an array. How can I do this?
  242. # [15:48] <divya> array.indexOf(variable)
  243. # [15:49] <adtykfhyipoh> that might work I'll try it
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  246. # [15:56] <adtykfhyipoh> thanks mate it worked
  247. # [15:56] <divya> np mate
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  252. # [16:29] <gsnedders> divya: You need indexOf(foo) >= 0 or !== -1
  253. # [16:29] <gsnedders> divya: [1].indexOf(1) === 0
  254. # [16:30] <divya> gsnedders: yep, I just wanted to point what f() to use to adty
  255. # [16:30] <gsnedders> divya: Kinda unclear from what you said, though
  256. # [16:31] <divya> yeah probably :P
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  267. # [17:18] <_bga> heh but new trend is ~a.indexOf :/
  268. # [17:18] <divya> coz that looks like you know what you are doing even if nobody else does
  269. # [17:20] <_bga> divya its for waste your brain "tacts", each time you remember that ~-1 == 0 and Bool(0) == false
  270. # [17:22] <divya> hah
  271. # [17:23] <zewt> bga: i'd smack anyone who tried to put garbage like that in my codebase
  272. # [17:23] <_bga> :)
  273. # [17:23] <zewt> leave that crap to obfuscated programming competitions; it belongs nowhere else
  274. # [17:24] <Philip`> How about "if (1+a.indexOf(b))" ?
  275. # [17:25] <_bga> i have some patterns for string lookup
  276. # [17:25] <zewt> that'd also incite me to install an "upside the head" device in someone's desk
  277. # [17:26] <_bga> https://github.com/bga/jbasis/blob/77683e222909279548a1fdc3e3ee03d4c83d96b4/src/$jb.Url.js
  278. # [17:26] <_bga> >>> 0, ~(~a || ~b || ~c)
  279. # [17:27] <_bga> + 1 for lastIndexOf
  280. # [17:27] <zewt> __this $$code _$_is $somewhat _unpleasant ___to __$$$read
  281. # [17:27] <_bga> :)
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  283. # [17:27] <zewt> return ~(~s.lastIndexOf('?', s.lastIndexOf('#') >>> 0) || ~s.length) <- yeah sorry this is bad :)
  284. # [17:29] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  285. # [17:29] <_bga> writing something like if(i < 0) i = s.length is annoing
  286. # [17:30] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  287. # [17:30] <zewt> write a helper for it
  288. # [17:30] <Philip`> return urlSubstringAfterQueryBeforeFragment(s);
  289. # [17:30] <zewt> that's what functions are for :)
  290. # [17:30] <Philip`> Easy to write *and* to read
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  294. # [17:31] <_bga> zewt i made it when illed by "perfomance"
  295. # [17:33] <_bga> Philip` and you will have *alot* of fns, its not orthogonal
  296. # [17:33] <_bga> get intexes and slice is better
  297. # [17:33] <zewt> at least there are no yoda conditionals :P
  298. # [17:34] * Philip` wonders why JS developers seem to focus so much on micro-optimisations like loop iteration conditions, rather than on profiling and optimising what actually matters
  299. # [17:35] <_bga> zewt i use _ prefix for fns to differ map which is hashtable from _map which is Array#_map
  300. # [17:35] <_bga> var a = a.map
  301. # [17:35] <_bga> what is that?
  302. # [17:35] <_bga> fn or data?
  303. # [17:36] <zewt> sorry, it's just hard on the eyes (and harder since there are both _functions and __functions)
  304. # [17:36] <_bga> __fn is private fn
  305. # [17:37] <_bga> zewt may be
  306. # [17:37] <zewt> bga: so use a clearer name ("mapping", "addressToUserMap", etc)
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  308. # [17:38] <_bga> i do ir
  309. # [17:38] <_bga> *it
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  314. # [18:06] <gsnedders> Philip`: Because profilers for JS engines almost uniformly suck.
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  332. # [19:10] * Philip` wonders why profilers for JS engine almost uniformly suck, given the relatively large amounts of effort put into JS engine performance
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  351. # [21:03] <zewt> Philip`: most profilers in all categories suck
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  353. # [21:09] <smaug____> Shark is good. (Apple has managed to do something I like)
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  391. # [23:33] <jgraham> Probably profiling jitted code is moderately hard
  392. # [23:34] <jgraham> At least you need to keep extra information around
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  396. # [23:41] * Philip` often feels that JIT people talk too much about how their clever dynamic compilation systems can produce code that's as fast as C, and ignore that practical performance optimisation actually depends on a feedback cycle between programmer and compiler, and that C/C++ are good for performance because that feedback cycle is pretty easy to understand
  397. # [23:42] <Philip`> (since they have adequate profiling tools and the compiler isn't too clever)
  398. # [23:43] <Philip`> I suppose working on profiling tools is less fun than working on clever compilers, though
  399. # [23:43] <Philip`> and doesn't help with benchmark results
  400. # [23:43] <jgraham> Yeah, that's what I was going to say
  401. # [23:44] <jgraham> Although maybe in the future it will be more important to have non-sucky profilers if games are going to take off in browsers
  402. # [23:44] <Philip`> That's even harder since you have to worry about GPU performance too :-(
  403. # [23:45] <jgraham> Being able to use the profiler to tune an application (or game) to work better in on javascript engine than another seems like a likely vector for things that only work acceptably well in one browser in the future
  404. # [23:46] <Philip`> That sounds like an excellent incentive for each browser vendor to produce the best profiling tools, so games are optimised for their browser rather than for their competitors
  405. # [23:47] <jgraham> Right, I think it probably will be
  406. # [23:47] <zewt> Philip`: well, there are endless cases in low-level languages of people who think they intuitively understand performance without profiling (and don't) ... high-level languages aren't unique there, it just raises the bar of understanding that much further
  407. # [23:47] <jgraham> It will also cause people to copy each other's optimisations of course
  408. # [23:48] <zewt> in particular since a single function may have differently-optimized versions under the hood for different arguments
  409. # [23:48] <zewt> (at least in C++, it's explicit when that's likely to happen--templates)
  410. # [23:51] <jgraham> I wonder if anyone published a reasonably up-to-date piece about how to get decent perf. from javascript. Just basic things like "don't change he types of variables"
  411. # [23:51] <Philip`> zewt: There will always be people who do it wrong, but at least with C/C++ you can run a compiler and profiler and look at assembly code and get a fair idea of what's going on if you want to, whereas higher-level languages seem to make that pretty much entirely impossible for anybody except the language implementers themselves
  412. # [23:52] <Philip`> (e.g. with SpiderMonkey it seems the only way to see what code compiles into is to run in the command-line shell with various environment variables to trigger dumps of the assembly code of the entire script, which isn't very practical for non-trivial applications)
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  415. # [23:57] <Laster> naive question from a nube. why doesn't editor.html implement fontsize, fontcolor and a lot of other functionality?
  416. # Session Close: Mon Oct 24 00:00:00 2011

The end :)