/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-11-23 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed Nov 23 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <jgraham> Everyone agrees that selectors don't address all the use cases today. The only disagreement is about whether the remaining use cases are important enough to address now rather than in a hypothetical future selectors spec
  4. # [00:01] <jgraham> At the cost of having nice API for two selection methods in the short term as opposed to nice API for one method and hideous API for one method
  5. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> Possibly. He was being needlessly sarcastic, and then compounded it with impugning my motives and hyperbolizing.
  6. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> I claimed he was arguing badly at the sarcasm point, though, where it was much more weakly justified.
  7. # [00:03] <TabAtkins> At this point I think it's quite accurate, though.
  8. # [00:04] <jgraham> Anyway I will go to sleep now. No doubt there will be a deluge of mail about this to look forward to :)
  9. # [00:07] * Phrogz_ is now known as Phrogz
  10. # [00:14] * Quits: xtoph (~xtoph@213.47.185.206)
  11. # [00:15] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  12. # [00:16] * Quits: Morphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  13. # [00:18] <Hixie> anyone know if in mysql there's a way to check if a column's value is equal to one of a set of strings? short of manually constructing a sequence of ORed expressions?
  14. # [00:19] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  15. # [00:19] <Hixie> hmm, looks like IN (?, ?) will do it
  16. # [00:19] <Hixie> i wonder if there's a way to make DBI automatically fill the right number of ?s
  17. # [00:20] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  18. # [00:20] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.139.95) (Quit: nn)
  19. # [00:21] <Philip`> I just use '... IN ('.(join ', ', map '?', @data).')' to get the right number of them
  20. # [00:22] * Philip` has never encountered a more elegant method
  21. # [00:22] <TabAtkins> Hixie appears to be above the crass practice of direct SQL string creation.
  22. # [00:22] <Hixie> Philip`: yeah that's what i'm doing, but i was hoping for something neater
  23. # [00:22] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  24. # [00:22] <Philip`> It's less crass if you're dynamically generating placeholders, and not putting user-supplied data into the query string
  25. # [00:23] <Hixie> yeah, it's not terrible
  26. # [00:23] <Hixie> it's still not pretty though :-)
  27. # [00:24] <Philip`> You could always create a temporary table, insert each item into that table, then do the query with "foo IN (SELECT value FROM that_temporary_table)"
  28. # [00:24] <Hixie> i would assume that that has worse perf characteristics
  29. # [00:24] <Hixie> what i'd like is just to be able to put a single ? in the query, and pass DBI an arrayref and have it expand it appropriately
  30. # [00:27] * Joins: franksalim (~frank@64-71-23-251.static.wiline.com)
  31. # [00:27] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  32. # [00:32] * Quits: Phrogz (d8e47015@pdpc/supporter/professional/phrogz) (Quit: Bwzoom!)
  33. # [00:33] * Joins: Morphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  34. # [00:35] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18)
  35. # [00:36] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@skycity-akl-nz.getin2net.com)
  36. # [00:52] * Quits: grendzy (~dylan@12.155.34.74) (Remote host closed the connection)
  37. # [00:52] * Joins: grendzy (~dylan@12.155.34.74)
  38. # [00:54] <annevk> oops
  39. # [00:54] <annevk> bit over aggressive there on the wiki
  40. # [00:55] <Hixie> no worries
  41. # [00:56] * Quits: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-wluzsgkjcpzogurw) (Quit: rniwa)
  42. # [00:59] <annevk> ojan: annotating everything with [Scope] on Document/Element and their derived interfaces seems like it would add a lot of noise
  43. # [00:59] <zewt> i've wanted sql apis to be able to do things like select("select * from table where id in (?)", [1,2,3]), and know (or have a simple way of saying) that the array should be expanded appropriately
  44. # [01:00] <annevk> ojan: I can see how that makes sense if the new set becomes larger... but at this point in time?
  45. # [01:00] <AryehGregor> Hixie, the ? stuff probably maps to prepared statements on the DB side, no? Not something in the library?
  46. # [01:00] <zewt> (the same thing as what hixie said, actually)
  47. # [01:00] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: davidwalsh)
  48. # [01:00] <zewt> no, ? is usually "expand an (escaped) parameter here"
  49. # [01:01] <AryehGregor> Yes, but is that done by the client library or the server?
  50. # [01:01] <zewt> library
  51. # [01:01] <AryehGregor> I guess it's probably done by the client library in this case.
  52. # [01:01] <zewt> the communication to the server is just the resulting SQL
  53. # [01:01] <AryehGregor> Although MySQL supports a feature with the same syntax, it would take three statements to use it, I guess: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.6/en/sql-syntax-prepared-statements.html
  54. # [01:02] <annevk> from twitter "I use the first thing that autocompletes in the devtools :)" so that's how people end up using document.width
  55. # [01:02] <AryehGregor> More, actually.
  56. # [01:02] <Hixie> AryehGregor: either way
  57. # [01:02] <AryehGregor> What's document.width anyway?
  58. # [01:02] <Hixie> AryehGregor: i don't mind how it's implemented ;-)
  59. # [01:02] <AryehGregor> I saw people talking about it.
  60. # [01:02] <annevk> it's nothing now
  61. # [01:02] <zewt> iirc i've wanted the same syntax to be able to fill in array literals (with postgres)
  62. # [01:02] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  63. # [01:03] <annevk> I guess it's time to find some more features to remove
  64. # [01:03] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  65. # [01:03] <annevk> well, not right now, now it's sleepy time :)
  66. # [01:04] <Philip`> zewt: Common advice is to use the ? placeholders so the server can cache the optimised query and reuse it with any arguments, which seems incompatible with the idea that the expansion is done by the client library
  67. # [01:04] <ojan> annevk: yeah...i just wouldn't want new features to fall through the cracks
  68. # [01:04] <ojan> but i guess the consequences aren't that bad
  69. # [01:04] <ojan> my hope is more that we could reduce the list over time
  70. # [01:05] <ojan> but maybe it's not worth the effort
  71. # [01:05] <zewt> the main reason for ? placeholders is to abstract away string escapes
  72. # [01:05] <zewt> anything else might be useful but a distant second...
  73. # [01:05] <AryehGregor> Philip`, it might be two different features using the same ? syntax.
  74. # [01:05] <zewt> that's definitely what prepared statements are for; i don't know if non-prepared statements do that too
  75. # [01:06] <zewt> though i guess i wouldn't be surprised, at least with postgres which (last i knew) is a lot more aggressive about optimizing than mysql
  76. # [01:06] <TabAtkins> Philip`: It's compatible with the idea that you don't have to worry about escaping, because the client library handles it all for you.
  77. # [01:06] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@118.186.129.144)
  78. # [01:07] <zewt> though optimization is a bit trickier than that, since you don't know which parts of the query are static and which are variable
  79. # [01:07] <zewt> (which you do know with prepared statements)
  80. # [01:07] <AryehGregor> MySQL is great at optimizing, providing you tell it exactly what optimizations to do and are fine with completely rewriting your queries in harebrained ways to trick it into being not completely retarded.
  81. # [01:07] <Hixie> nessy: ping
  82. # [01:08] <annevk> ojan: it's a valid concern; I've been trying to think of something simpler, but haven't really been able to come up with anything
  83. # [01:08] <annevk> ojan: it's also kind of neat the way the scope chain thing works, but I guess it's a misfeature for extensibility
  84. # [01:08] <zewt> for example, "select * from users where id > 100" optimizes completely differently on (random database i just tested on) than "id > 1000000" (the former uses a seq scan, the latter an index scan)
  85. # [01:09] <AryehGregor> (Once someone asked in #mysql about some query with GROUP BY for days of the week, which was running really slowly on his data set. I advised him to rewrite it as a UNION of seven copy-pasted queries with different WHERE clauses, and he reported the performance was drastically better.)
  86. # [01:09] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  87. # [01:09] <ojan> annevk: i think it's also a misfeature for developers...
  88. # [01:09] <annevk> ojan: okay
  89. # [01:09] <zewt> (since postgres knows that there are tons of users > 100, but very few > 1000000)
  90. # [01:09] <annevk> ojan: I guess you don't like 'with' either?
  91. # [01:09] <ojan> annevk: i think the vast majority of developers are surprised by this when they learn about it and tend to learn about it by hitting a weird unexpected bug trying to access a global
  92. # [01:09] <AryehGregor> zewt, yeah, obviously. It's going to have to do cardinality estimates, and it can't do that without the actual numbers. WHERE foo=6 might be a totally different execution plan from WHERE foo=7, if 6 and 7 have very different frequencies.
  93. # [01:10] <ojan> annevk: i'm more OK with "with" since you do it more explicitly
  94. # [01:10] <ojan> annevk: i don't love it, but it's different in my view
  95. # [01:10] <annevk> fair enough
  96. # [01:10] <AryehGregor> The MySQL optimizer will sometimes figure out it doesn't have to run the query at all -- "impossible where condition noticed after reading const tables" or such.
  97. # [01:10] <AryehGregor> So it knows it has to return zero rows even before you actually run the query.
  98. # [01:10] <ojan> annevk: doesn't really matter either way...we're stuck with it
  99. # [01:11] <AryehGregor> But it depends totally on the values of the parameters.
  100. # [01:11] <zewt> i don't think postgres will do that, but it'll at least reduce it to an index scan, which is probably near-constant-time
  101. # [01:11] <zewt> (when the condition never happens)
  102. # [01:11] <annevk> we could have scope-interface HTMLButtonElement { }; interface HTMLButtonElement {}; maybe
  103. # [01:11] <annevk> ojan: ^^
  104. # [01:11] <ojan> annevk: yeah, that seems nicer
  105. # [01:11] <AryehGregor> Surely [Scope] interface HTMLButtonElement?
  106. # [01:12] <AryehGregor> Not a whole new definition type?
  107. # [01:12] <annevk> I'm not sure why we have all this weird [] syntax instead of just native support
  108. # [01:12] <annevk> but sure
  109. # [01:12] <AryehGregor> "native support"?
  110. # [01:12] <ojan> annevk: i don't feel strongly about any of this as long as we can add new APIs without compat concerns
  111. # [01:13] <zewt> oh, postgres sometimes does it
  112. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> I'm sure it does.
  113. # [01:13] <annevk> AryehGregor: e.g. sometimes you use readonly attribute and sometimes you use [Replaceable] attribute
  114. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> pgsql is generally much smarter than MySQL.
  115. # [01:13] <zewt> if i say "id = 1 and id = 2", it adds "One-Time Filter: false", which i presume means the same thing
  116. # [01:13] <annevk> pretty weird
  117. # [01:13] <annevk> I'd rather we just use keywords all over
  118. # [01:13] <zewt> it just doesn't figure out "id > 100 and id < 0" is always false (for integers)
  119. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> annevk, well, there are like half a dozen that are magic, yeah. readonly, getter/setter/legacycaller/etc., static.
  120. # [01:13] <annevk> and I actually think we should drop "attribute"
  121. # [01:13] <annevk> we don't say "method" either
  122. # [01:13] <AryehGregor> I don't know why we have two different syntaxes.
  123. # [01:14] * Quits: Telling (~unknown@80-71-135-15.u.parknet.dk) (Quit: ...)
  124. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> You'd just have to make sure it's not ambiguous.
  125. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> zewt, oh, really? I'm surprised, that seems easy.
  126. # [01:14] <annevk> () makes it that way
  127. # [01:14] <annevk> () -> method
  128. # [01:14] <annevk> no () -> attribute
  129. # [01:14] <ojan> annevk: makes sense to me
  130. # [01:14] <AryehGregor> MySQL does.
  131. # [01:15] <AryehGregor> zewt, MySQL does figure that out.
  132. # [01:15] <AryehGregor> Impossible WHERE noticed after reading const tables
  133. # [01:15] <annevk> but there's not a lot of people who want to simplify Web IDL these days
  134. # [01:15] <annevk> some kind of stabilizing frenzy
  135. # [01:15] <Hixie> did you guys ever get mikesmith's diff -F idea to work, btw?
  136. # [01:15] * annevk rather has continuous improvement
  137. # [01:16] <AryehGregor> Changing WebIDL is annoying because then all the specs have to change.
  138. # [01:16] <annevk> Hixie: yes, but it is not there yet because it removed a feature svn diff had
  139. # [01:17] <Hixie> what command line did you use to get it to work, and what did it remove?
  140. # [01:17] <Hixie> (i'm doing it for something else)
  141. # [01:17] <annevk> Hixie: specifically because you use a custom diff the diff result you get no longer gives you the SVN revision numbers that where actually used (they can be different from input under some conditions)
  142. # [01:17] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@118.186.129.144) (Remote host closed the connection)
  143. # [01:17] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  144. # [01:18] <Hixie> svn passes you the labels, so that's not a big deal
  145. # [01:18] <Hixie> but in this case it doesn't matter for me
  146. # [01:18] <annevk> oh, if svn does that maybe we can make it work somehow
  147. # [01:18] <annevk> anyway
  148. # [01:19] <annevk> I created diffwrap.sh
  149. # [01:19] <annevk> contains
  150. # [01:19] <annevk> #!/bin/sh
  151. # [01:19] <annevk> diff -u -F '<h[1-6]' ${6} ${7}
  152. # [01:19] <annevk> and then
  153. # [01:19] <annevk> the svn diff command becomes
  154. # [01:19] <annevk> svn diff --diff-cmd ./diffwrap.sh -r
  155. # [01:19] <annevk> and after -r your revision numbers
  156. # [01:20] <Hixie> add "-L {$} -L {5}" to your diff arguments, that should get you the labels right iirc
  157. # [01:20] <Hixie> er
  158. # [01:20] <Hixie> {$4} and {$5} respectively
  159. # [01:20] <Hixie> er
  160. # [01:20] <Hixie> {$3}
  161. # [01:20] <Hixie> not 4
  162. # [01:20] <Hixie> probably
  163. # [01:20] <Hixie> try echoing all the arguments to find out which you want :-P
  164. # [01:20] <Hixie> anyway
  165. # [01:20] <Hixie> why isn't this working for me then
  166. # [01:21] <annevk> I don't want to know what is passed to svn diff btw
  167. # [01:21] <annevk> I want to know what svn diff ended up getting
  168. # [01:21] <annevk> e.g. if I just pass in revFrom
  169. # [01:21] <Hixie> yes, i understand
  170. # [01:21] <annevk> k
  171. # [01:21] <AryehGregor> Wait, wait, wait, wait. Are ES people using "globalization" as a synonym for "localization"? That's got to be the most confusing thing ever.
  172. # [01:21] <annevk> did you 755 on diffwrap.sh?
  173. # [01:21] <Hixie> so i'm doing svn diff source --diff-cmd 'diff' -x "-u6 -F '<h[1-6]'"
  174. # [01:21] <Hixie> instead of using a wrapper
  175. # [01:22] <annevk> you need the wrapper
  176. # [01:22] <Hixie> but the -F thing isn't working right
  177. # [01:22] <zewt> AryehGregor: i don't know, but those words mean utterly different things
  178. # [01:22] <Hixie> why?
  179. # [01:22] <AryehGregor> zewt, do they? I've never heard "globalization" used with respect to software.
  180. # [01:22] <annevk> Hixie: Mike told me to read http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.2/svn.advanced.externaldifftools.html
  181. # [01:22] <AryehGregor> Only "localization" and "internationalization".
  182. # [01:22] <annevk> Hixie: I didn't and just followed his instructions
  183. # [01:22] <annevk> Hixie: but I assume it's explained there
  184. # [01:22] <zewt> it has no particular meaning in the field, but as a word it has no relation to "localization" that i know
  185. # [01:23] <Hixie> annevk: looks like that's out of date. svn has a -x argument now to pass arguments to diff.
  186. # [01:24] <annevk> oh
  187. # [01:24] <annevk> dunno then
  188. # [01:24] * annevk -> bed
  189. # [01:24] <annevk> nn
  190. # [01:25] <Hixie> nn
  191. # [01:25] * danielfilho is now known as danielfilho|afk
  192. # [01:26] <Hixie> wtf
  193. # [01:27] <Hixie> svn diff source --diff-cmd 'diff' -x "-u6 -F=<" works fine
  194. # [01:27] <Hixie> svn diff source --diff-cmd 'diff' -x "-u6 -F=<h" shows no function
  195. # [01:27] <Hixie> svn diff source --diff-cmd 'diff' -x "-u6 -F<h" shows no function
  196. # [01:28] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@skycity-akl-nz.getin2net.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  197. # [01:29] <AryehGregor> Maybe <h is interpreted as "use 'h' as the input file"? Try more quoting.
  198. # [01:29] * AryehGregor doesn't know if this is being passed to a shell somewhere
  199. # [01:30] <Hixie> svn diff source --diff-cmd 'diff' -x "-u6 --show-function-line=<h[1-6]" works
  200. # [01:33] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-ylyosjmugdwnkzvn)
  201. # [01:33] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  202. # [01:33] <AryehGregor> Curious.
  203. # [01:33] <AryehGregor> What about: "-u6 --show-function-line='<h'"
  204. # [01:35] <Hixie> dunno, once it started working i moved on :-)
  205. # [01:36] <Hixie> ok the topics i have so far are: ['Canvas','HTML','HTML Syntax and Parsing','Microdata','Offline Web Applications','Server-Sent Events','Video Text Tracks','Video and Audio','Web Storage','Web Workers','WebSocket API']
  206. # [01:36] <Hixie> any other topics i should add?
  207. # [01:37] <AryehGregor> Do you have some particular reason for picking that granularity? Implementers normally work on extremely specific sets of things, no?
  208. # [01:38] <AryehGregor> To be fair, I can think of some people who are interested specifically in some of those topics.
  209. # [01:38] * AryehGregor doesn't need this anyway, just looks at all the revisions
  210. # [01:38] <Hixie> well the video and track ones were requested
  211. # [01:38] <Hixie> and the others map to what i already had annotated for other reasons :-)
  212. # [01:39] <AryehGregor> Good strategy.
  213. # [01:42] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-ylyosjmugdwnkzvn) (Remote host closed the connection)
  214. # [01:43] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  215. # [01:45] * Quits: Margle (~Margle@41-133-196-64.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  216. # [01:45] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
  217. # [01:53] * Quits: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona) (Quit: cgcardona)
  218. # [01:56] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-zrqeevdkdyldupxp) (Quit: KillerX)
  219. # [02:02] <Hixie> ok you can now subscribe to specific topics
  220. # [02:04] * Joins: thiagotpc (~TPC@201.47.38.76.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br)
  221. # [02:04] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-udtormadmtfbembr) (Quit: ->train)
  222. # [02:09] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.19.118)
  223. # [02:23] <Hixie> i sent a mail to the list describing how
  224. # [02:30] * Joins: nimbupani (~divya@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  225. # [02:33] * Quits: astearns (~anonymous@192.150.22.5) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  226. # [02:35] * Quits: nimbupani (~divya@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  227. # [02:37] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245)
  228. # [02:41] * Quits: rillian_ (~rillian@mist.thaumas.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  229. # [02:42] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (~TabAtkins@76-253-1-30.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  230. # [02:43] * Quits: divya (~divyam@c-24-18-47-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  231. # [02:43] * Joins: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-kciqpkscrhzjqznw)
  232. # [02:45] * Joins: nimbu (~nimbu@ve.hsh6wjwx.vesrv.com)
  233. # [02:46] * nimbu is now known as divya
  234. # [02:48] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (~TabAtkins@76-253-1-30.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  235. # [02:48] * Quits: _bga (~bga@ppp78-37-229-239.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  236. # [02:51] * Quits: ojan (ojan@nat/google/x-ctznxwayuueiatrt) (Quit: ojan)
  237. # [03:00] * Quits: thiagotpc (~TPC@201.47.38.76.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) (Quit: manda bala rennan_martini!!)
  238. # [03:10] <jwalden> zewt: re animated tab icons, I wonder if that's perhaps a use case for an attribute to put on <img> (well, its <xul:image> brother, but really <img>) to disable image animation; not a good use case, but perhaps there are use cases which would better fit on the actual web
  239. # [03:12] * Joins: rniwa_ (rniwa@nat/google/x-ejxnmvzzuxbcgcth)
  240. # [03:14] * Joins: rillian_ (~rillian@mist.thaumas.net)
  241. # [03:15] * Quits: connrs (~connrs@conners.plus.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  242. # [03:15] <zewt> jwalden: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=653035
  243. # [03:15] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@bas1-toronto06-2925210074.dsl.bell.ca)
  244. # [03:16] <zewt> (which was met with deafening crickets)
  245. # [03:16] * Joins: KillerX (~anant@70-36-146-71.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  246. # [03:17] * Joins: KillerX_ (~anant@mpt-vpn.mozilla.com)
  247. # [03:18] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1A25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  248. # [03:19] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1C93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  249. # [03:19] * Joins: connrs (~connrs@conners.plus.com)
  250. # [03:20] <jwalden> zewt: I think the place to propose that would be www-style, more likely
  251. # [03:20] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@70-36-146-71.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  252. # [03:20] * KillerX_ is now known as KillerX
  253. # [03:20] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-3.1450hg.fc15 [XULRunner 7.0.1/20110930134335])
  254. # [03:25] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  255. # [03:25] <zewt> (no, because all of the use cases are UA-specific)
  256. # [03:27] * Quits: rniwa_ (rniwa@nat/google/x-ejxnmvzzuxbcgcth) (Quit: rniwa_)
  257. # [03:29] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74)
  258. # [03:35] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  259. # [03:40] * Quits: dave_levin (dave_levin@nat/google/x-gbtlanrhnoobojnz) (Quit: dave_levin)
  260. # [03:41] * Parts: bezoar (~Adium@c-24-143-67-135.customer.broadstripe.net)
  261. # [03:43] * Joins: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  262. # [03:52] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-156-249.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  263. # [03:54] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@bas1-toronto06-2925210074.dsl.bell.ca) (Quit: davidb)
  264. # [03:58] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@mpt-vpn.mozilla.com) (Quit: KillerX)
  265. # [04:03] * Quits: rillian_ (~rillian@mist.thaumas.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  266. # [04:12] * Joins: rillian_ (~rillian@mist.thaumas.net)
  267. # [04:20] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  268. # [04:27] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  269. # [04:27] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Excess Flood)
  270. # [04:33] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-150-176.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  271. # [04:34] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: needsinfo I created because under the current regime I don't officially have authority to move other editors' bugs to resolved
  272. # [04:34] * Quits: rillian_ (~rillian@mist.thaumas.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  273. # [04:34] <MikeSmith> so I didn't want to move others' bugs to resolved and have somebody call process foul
  274. # [04:37] * Quits: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-pribrasgw1-ff17c300-80.dhcp.inet.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  275. # [04:38] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@adsl-75-36-186-46.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  276. # [04:39] * Quits: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-kciqpkscrhzjqznw) (Quit: rniwa)
  277. # [04:44] <Hixie> MikeSmith: want me to go through them and mark then NEEDSINFO?
  278. # [04:45] <MikeSmith> yeah, sure
  279. # [04:45] <MikeSmith> if you have time
  280. # [04:45] <MikeSmith> there's about 40 of them at this point, I think
  281. # [04:45] <MikeSmith> so I seen you started marking up the spec with topic annotations
  282. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> I think that'll be useful
  283. # [04:46] <Hixie> yeah see whatwg mail
  284. # [04:46] <MikeSmith> ah, ok
  285. # [04:46] * MikeSmith is at 295 unread in his inbox right now
  286. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> a few hours ago annevk was trying out that diff thing I suggested
  287. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> for web-apps-tracker
  288. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> and got it working
  289. # [04:47] <Hixie> yeah i used that for this too
  290. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> ah cool
  291. # [04:47] <MikeSmith> annevk got it working but ran into a problem caused by a side effect of it
  292. # [04:48] <MikeSmith> so hopefully he can figure out some way to get around that
  293. # [04:48] <Hixie> yeah we spoke about it
  294. # [04:48] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  295. # [04:50] <Hixie> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2011-November/033946.html
  296. # [04:51] <Hixie> annevk: if you want me to include the affected topics in my html5.org ping, let me know
  297. # [04:51] <Hixie> i should probably find a way to put them in the checkin comment, too
  298. # [04:51] * MikeSmith finishes reading scrollback about the diff stuff
  299. # [04:52] <MikeSmith> didn't know about -x
  300. # [04:52] <MikeSmith> AryehGregor: yeah, that use of "globalization" is misguided
  301. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> that is what TC39 is calling their locales API
  302. # [04:53] <MikeSmith> which I guess is probably the context for why you mentioned it
  303. # [04:54] <MikeSmith> it's kind of like when people started calling themselves "serial entrepreneurs"
  304. # [04:54] <MikeSmith> and now serial whatevers
  305. # [04:55] <MikeSmith> when not just a few years ago the only context for using "serial" was in serial murderer or serial some-other-criminal-type
  306. # [05:05] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.19.118) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  307. # [05:06] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p50829FE8.dip.t-dialin.net)
  308. # [05:08] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082950E.dip.t-dialin.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  309. # [05:11] <zewt> MikeSmith: i tend to assume "attention grab" when people don't use the same word for something that the rest of living english-speaking humanity uses
  310. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> hmm
  311. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> yeah
  312. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> there is that too
  313. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> but I don't think they are consciously doing it for that reason
  314. # [05:12] <MikeSmith> they are just naively saying, Hey, there's a word that sounds good
  315. # [05:13] <zewt> if people are implementing a localization framework who don't even know the word "localization", i'd be very worried
  316. # [05:13] <MikeSmith> without taking time to consider how the word it normally used in practice and what negative connotations it might have
  317. # [05:13] <MikeSmith> no, they know the word localization
  318. # [05:13] <MikeSmith> I think it's that what they are producing is not strictly about localization
  319. # [05:14] <MikeSmith> it's more about what normally called "locales" support
  320. # [05:14] <MikeSmith> I guess
  321. # [05:14] <MikeSmith> and it seems like until recently most everybody had been calling the JS thing "The Locales API"
  322. # [05:15] * Quits: cpearce (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  323. # [05:17] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.81)
  324. # [05:21] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  325. # [05:21] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  326. # [05:22] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  327. # [05:32] <zewt> locales is a standard part of localization
  328. # [05:32] <zewt> not to state too much the obvious :)
  329. # [05:49] * Quits: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  330. # [06:05] * Joins: nonge__ (~nonge@p5082BA0D.dip.t-dialin.net)
  331. # [06:09] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p50829FE8.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  332. # [06:13] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
  333. # [06:16] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  334. # [06:22] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@76.92.215.21)
  335. # [06:32] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  336. # [06:35] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@74.125.56.18) (Quit: Leaving.)
  337. # [06:41] * Joins: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  338. # [06:51] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  339. # [06:54] <heycam> annevk, yeah I would say hold off on cosmetic changes like dropping "attribute" so as to avoid churning lots of specs for little gain.
  340. # [06:55] <heycam> AryehGregor, thanks for filing this bunch of bugs recently, btw. probably can't get to them until next week or later due to https://twitter.com/#!/heycam/status/138489725102211073
  341. # [07:13] <Hixie> heycam++ on not changing webidl in backwards-incompatible ways
  342. # [07:13] <Hixie> i have real problems to work on and don't need make-work
  343. # [07:50] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  344. # [07:52] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  345. # [07:54] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-awgjsorktgheanuu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  346. # [07:54] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-jbsjvfszgzainzkm)
  347. # [07:58] * Quits: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: astearns)
  348. # [08:07] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  349. # [08:12] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  350. # [08:34] <matjas> zcorpan told me this the other day: “a-zA-Z1-9 and = after an entity without semicolon inside an attribute makes the entity get unconsumed and emitted as text”
  351. # [08:34] <matjas> where can i find that in the spec?
  352. # [08:37] <MikeSmith> matjas: you looked through http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#consume-a-character-reference already?
  353. # [08:38] <MikeSmith> the middle of the "Anything else" part
  354. # [08:39] <matjas> “If the character reference is being consumed as part of an attribute, and the last character matched is not a U+003B SEMICOLON character (;), and the next character is either a U+003D EQUALS SIGN character (=) or in the range U+0030 DIGIT ZERO (0) to U+0039 DIGIT NINE (9), U+0041 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A to U+005A LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Z, or U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A to U+007A LATIN SMALL LETTER
  355. # [08:39] <matjas> Z, then, for historical reasons, all the characters that were matched after the U+0026 AMPERSAND character (&) must be unconsumed, and nothing is returned.”
  356. # [08:39] <matjas> thanks, MikeSmith!
  357. # [08:39] <MikeSmith> cheers
  358. # [08:42] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  359. # [08:47] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@adsl-75-36-186-46.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  360. # [08:48] <MikeSmith> getting support for command element and API into webkit not looking so good
  361. # [08:48] <MikeSmith> https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2011-November/018662.html
  362. # [08:49] <MikeSmith> at least not as currently spec'ed
  363. # [08:51] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.81) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  364. # [08:52] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  365. # [08:54] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  366. # [09:01] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-168-178-62.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  367. # [09:03] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.137)
  368. # [09:05] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-118f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  369. # [09:06] * Joins: woef (~woef@91.183.84.141)
  370. # [09:19] * Joins: FlorianX (~Dimitri@p4FCF73ED.dip.t-dialin.net)
  371. # [09:20] * Joins: Margle (~Margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  372. # [09:37] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.16.158)
  373. # [09:37] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  374. # [09:38] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  375. # [09:40] <annevk> there's a benefit to cleaning up IDL syntax too, but mkay
  376. # [09:41] <annevk> Hixie: CANVAS topic should include the element
  377. # [09:42] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d0297cf.pool.mediaWays.net)
  378. # [09:44] * Joins: abarth (~abarth@173-164-128-209-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  379. # [09:47] * Joins: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  380. # [09:53] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.139.95)
  381. # [09:58] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZMMMCDLXXII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  382. # [09:59] * Quits: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B05D901.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  383. # [10:04] * Joins: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B137B5C.dip.t-dialin.net)
  384. # [10:05] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  385. # [10:09] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@84-72-45-52.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  386. # [10:09] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@84-72-45-52.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Changing host)
  387. # [10:09] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  388. # [10:15] * Quits: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@76.92.215.21) (Quit: c_t_montgomery)
  389. # [10:19] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  390. # [10:22] * Joins: Telling (~unknown@shop3.diku.dk)
  391. # [10:26] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.139.95) (Quit: bbl)
  392. # [10:29] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-9-169.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  393. # [10:30] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZMMMCDLXXII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  394. # [10:32] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-150-176.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  395. # [10:32] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  396. # [10:39] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@node-7ahkvq28vc65m79q2.a0.ipv6.opera.com)
  397. # [10:40] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  398. # [10:42] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  399. # [10:44] * Quits: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  400. # [10:44] * Joins: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de)
  401. # [10:45] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za)
  402. # [10:50] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  403. # [10:53] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZMYCLXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  404. # [10:57] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZMYCLXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  405. # [11:00] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  406. # [11:03] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-118f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  407. # [11:03] * Quits: Telling (~unknown@shop3.diku.dk) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  408. # [11:07] * Joins: Telling (~unknown@shop3.diku.dk)
  409. # [11:10] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYYKMCMLI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  410. # [11:14] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-156-249.as43234.net)
  411. # [11:15] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-156-249.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  412. # [11:15] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-156-249.as43234.net)
  413. # [11:21] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  414. # [11:22] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  415. # [11:25] * Quits: Telling (~unknown@shop3.diku.dk) (Quit: ...)
  416. # [11:25] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYYKMCMLI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  417. # [11:28] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za)
  418. # [11:30] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1C93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Bye, bye!)
  419. # [11:31] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1C93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  420. # [11:44] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  421. # [11:44] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  422. # [11:47] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYGMMMCMXCVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  423. # [11:50] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  424. # [11:54] * Quits: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oheytlsiqqrdihrv)
  425. # [11:55] * Joins: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnnjyfqmxsvsexsr)
  426. # [12:00] * Joins: danielfilho (~daniel@187.31.77.7)
  427. # [12:01] * Quits: danielfilho|afk (~daniel@187.31.77.7) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  428. # [12:04] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  429. # [12:10] * Quits: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  430. # [12:10] * Joins: bzed (~bzed@devel.recluse.de)
  431. # [12:10] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYGMMMCMXCVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  432. # [12:11] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  433. # [12:24] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  434. # [12:31] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  435. # [12:32] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGMMMCCXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  436. # [12:40] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGMMMCCXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  437. # [12:40] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  438. # [12:47] * Joins: deityofmadness (~deityofma@cm156.omega41.maxonline.com.sg)
  439. # [12:47] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.137) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
  440. # [12:50] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  441. # [12:54] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.137)
  442. # [12:58] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  443. # [13:00] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYKMDCCXXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  444. # [13:06] <annevk> smaug____: do you know the CORS code a little bit?
  445. # [13:06] <annevk> smaug____: I wonder how Mozilla implemented the Content-Type stuff
  446. # [13:07] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYKMDCCXXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  447. # [13:07] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  448. # [13:08] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  449. # [13:15] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-178-62.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  450. # [13:19] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  451. # [13:20] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  452. # [13:23] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.0.137) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
  453. # [13:25] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  454. # [13:27] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  455. # [13:28] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za)
  456. # [13:28] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  457. # [13:28] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za)
  458. # [13:29] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGZMMCXCVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  459. # [13:34] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGZMMCXCVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  460. # [13:36] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  461. # [13:42] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk)
  462. # [13:48] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  463. # [13:49] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Client Quit)
  464. # [13:54] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  465. # [13:55] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
  466. # [13:56] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYKMMCXXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  467. # [14:05] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2064.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  468. # [14:08] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  469. # [14:11] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYKMMCXXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  470. # [14:19] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  471. # [14:27] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@196-210-192-33.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  472. # [14:29] <annevk> non-living standards strike again: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/websec/current/msg00846.html
  473. # [14:30] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  474. # [14:34] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-100f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  475. # [14:36] <annevk> okay event delegation is neat
  476. # [14:39] * Joins: bga_ (~bga@ppp78-37-229-239.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
  477. # [14:50] <jgraham> annevk: What in particular?
  478. # [14:53] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@210.14.142.48)
  479. # [14:55] <annevk> jgraham: ?
  480. # [14:55] <bga_> lol xslt! http://www.meta-language.net/sample.html
  481. # [14:56] <AryehGregor> heycam|away, no rush. It's not blocking my test writing; I've just got comments in the code pointing out what I should look at when the bugs are resolved.
  482. # [15:00] <jgraham> annevk: What do you mean by "event delegation". Or what part of it is neat? jQuery seems to have an API for attaching an event listener to a bunch of elements which was called "delegate" but afaict "delegation" is just having one event handler that deals with events coming from multiple nodes in the subtree of the node to which the handler is attached
  483. # [15:00] <jgraham> But possibly I don't understand the terminology here
  484. # [15:01] <annevk> see the API proposal on www-dom
  485. # [15:04] <jgraham> Oh, so the important point of the API proposal is matching the nodes on which you actually care about the event is baked in?
  486. # [15:05] * Joins: benjoffe (~benjoffe@1.145.123.16)
  487. # [15:06] * Quits: benjoffe (~benjoffe@1.145.123.16) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  488. # [15:06] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  489. # [15:06] * Joins: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@86.188.197.189)
  490. # [15:06] * Joins: benjoffe (~benjoffe@1.145.123.16)
  491. # [15:08] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-156-249.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  492. # [15:09] * Joins: davidb_ (~davidb@66.207.208.98)
  493. # [15:11] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@node-7ahkvq28vc65m79q2.a0.ipv6.opera.com) (Quit: zcorpan)
  494. # [15:15] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-124-122-79-178.revip2.asianet.co.th)
  495. # [15:16] * Quits: Margle (~Margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  496. # [15:17] * Quits: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  497. # [15:17] * Joins: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  498. # [15:17] * Quits: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  499. # [15:17] * Joins: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  500. # [15:17] * Quits: riven (~riven@53518387.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Changing host)
  501. # [15:17] * Joins: riven (~riven@pdpc/supporter/professional/riven)
  502. # [15:17] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@210.14.142.48) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  503. # [15:18] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  504. # [15:18] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@118.186.202.66)
  505. # [15:19] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
  506. # [15:21] * Joins: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  507. # [15:25] <annevk> jgraham: euhm, the important point is that can catch events on objects inserted at any point in time, without having to explicitly insert listeners on those objects and without having to do a lot of filtering yourself
  508. # [15:31] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  509. # [15:33] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  510. # [15:33] <jgraham> annevk: Right, the "without having to do a lot of filtering yourself" is what I said about matching the right nodes being baked in
  511. # [15:34] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  512. # [15:34] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  513. # [15:34] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  514. # [15:37] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@p2067-ipbf1606marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  515. # [15:38] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  516. # [15:41] <annevk> jgraham: ah, "baked in" threw me of
  517. # [15:44] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYKMCCCLXXXVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  518. # [15:47] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  519. # [15:50] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  520. # [15:58] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  521. # [15:58] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  522. # [15:59] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  523. # [16:01] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  524. # [16:12] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  525. # [16:19] * Quits: lhnz (~lhnz@188-223-83-48.zone14.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  526. # [16:21] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  527. # [16:23] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  528. # [16:29] * Joins: Telling (~unknown@80-71-135-15.u.parknet.dk)
  529. # [16:29] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM1-113-248-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  530. # [16:31] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-9-169.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  531. # [16:31] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  532. # [16:40] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
  533. # [16:41] * Quits: benjoffe (~benjoffe@1.145.123.16) (Remote host closed the connection)
  534. # [16:42] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  535. # [16:48] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@76.92.215.21)
  536. # [16:50] <AryehGregor> Hixie, HTML has [OverrideBuiltins] partial interface Document { . . . }, which WebIDL doesn't currently allow. What's the intent? That the properties in that partial interface should override builtins, but the ones DOM4 defines for Document should not? Is this how implementations behave?
  537. # [16:53] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  538. # [16:56] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  539. # [16:56] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@bct191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  540. # [16:56] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@bct191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  541. # [16:56] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  542. # [17:07] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@118.186.202.66) (Remote host closed the connection)
  543. # [17:09] <hsivonen> http://occupyhtml.org/ some people still like plug-ins
  544. # [17:11] <bga_> plugins is ok
  545. # [17:17] <annevk> MikeSmith: are you there?
  546. # [17:20] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  547. # [17:20] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0105d7.bb.sky.com)
  548. # [17:22] * Joins: jarek__ (~jarek@awf236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  549. # [17:22] * jarek is now known as Guest47891
  550. # [17:24] * Quits: Guest47891 (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  551. # [17:24] <jarek__> why {term} is defined in CSS2.1 as:
  552. # [17:24] <jarek__> [ NUMBER S* | PERCENTAGE S* | LENGTH S* | EMS S* | EXS S* | ANGLE S* | TIME S* | FREQ S* ]
  553. # [17:24] <jarek__> | STRING S* | IDENT S* | URI S* | hexcolor | function
  554. # [17:24] <jarek__> and not as:
  555. # [17:25] <jarek__> [ NUMBER S* | PERCENTAGE S* | LENGTH S* | EMS S* | EXS S* | ANGLE S* | TIME S* | FREQ S* | STRING S* | IDENT S* | URI S* | hexcolor | function]
  556. # [17:25] <jarek__> how is that different?
  557. # [17:25] <jarek__> I mean, why the first part is between [] brackets?
  558. # [17:30] <divya> because those are length units
  559. # [17:30] <divya> the rest are not
  560. # [17:30] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  561. # [17:32] * Joins: scar3 (~scar2@unaffiliated/seoshark)
  562. # [17:32] * jarek__ searches for definition of length unit
  563. # [17:33] * Quits: connrs (~connrs@conners.plus.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  564. # [17:33] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  565. # [17:34] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  566. # [17:35] <divya> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/
  567. # [17:35] <jarek__> in CSS2.1 padding is defined like this:
  568. # [17:35] <jarek__> ‘padding-top’ <length> | <percentage>
  569. # [17:36] <jarek__> so this grouping does not make sense :/
  570. # [17:39] <jarek__> divya: btw, I have read your article on CSS vocabulary last week, great writing
  571. # [17:39] <divya> thanks jarek__!
  572. # [17:40] * Joins: connrs (~connrs@conners.plus.com)
  573. # [17:40] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  574. # [17:41] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  575. # [17:43] * Joins: cfq (~cfq@217.111.143.154)
  576. # [17:46] <AryehGregor> What's the difference in WebIDL between an implements statement, and using a partial interface?
  577. # [17:46] <AryehGregor> Just that you can save some typing if you want to add the same members to multiple interfaces?
  578. # [17:48] <annevk> is implements automatically NoInterfaceObject these days?
  579. # [17:49] <AryehGregor> Nope.
  580. # [17:49] <AryehGregor> Seems not.
  581. # [17:49] <AryehGregor> So that's a difference, yeah, but is it a desirable one?
  582. # [17:49] <annevk> not really
  583. # [17:50] <annevk> but implements can be useful if you define something like Workers and you want to expose a bunch of existing stuff
  584. # [17:51] * Quits: jarek__ (~jarek@awf236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  585. # [17:51] <annevk> maybe they should be defined as "implementable interface Foo { }"
  586. # [17:51] * Joins: jarek__ (~jarek@aear249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  587. # [17:51] <annevk> and then implements Foo gives the same semantics as partial
  588. # [17:52] <annevk> and Foo is just some name
  589. # [17:53] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  590. # [17:59] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  591. # [18:00] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  592. # [18:06] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-xexkrlihdzbjfqrk)
  593. # [18:07] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  594. # [18:18] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  595. # [18:22] * Quits: woef (~woef@91.183.84.141) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  596. # [18:24] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@p2067-ipbf1606marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving.)
  597. # [18:32] <Hixie> AryehGregor: the [OverrideBuiltins] should be on the DOM Document interface
  598. # [18:32] <AryehGregor> Hixie, so DOM4 should add [OverrideBuiltins] to the original interface, and you should remove it from the partial interface?
  599. # [18:32] <AryehGregor> Incidentally, preliminary HTML IDL tests: http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/AryehGregor/interfaces.html
  600. # [18:34] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  601. # [18:35] <Hixie> AryehGregor: yeah
  602. # [18:36] <AryehGregor> Hixie, except the getter is defined in HTML, and OverrideBuiltins is only allowed to appear on an interface with a getter . . .
  603. # [18:36] * AryehGregor isn't sure what the right way is to handle that
  604. # [18:37] * Quits: cfq (~cfq@217.111.143.154) (Quit: cfq)
  605. # [18:37] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  606. # [18:38] <annevk> AryehGregor: the right way to handle that would be to file a bug on heycam|away :)
  607. # [18:38] * AryehGregor does so
  608. # [18:38] <Hixie> AryehGregor: partial interfaces are just an editorial detail, Document has a getter, whether it's defined on the block with 'partial' or not
  609. # [18:39] <AryehGregor> Editorially, that violates the fiction that DOM4 doesn't depend on HTML.
  610. # [18:39] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d0297cf.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  611. # [18:40] <Hixie> why?
  612. # [18:40] <Hixie> oh because you need a getter
  613. # [18:40] <Hixie> hm
  614. # [18:41] <AryehGregor> Right.
  615. # [18:41] <Hixie> let it be heycam's roblem :-)
  616. # [18:42] <annevk> I looked at CORS again today to fix various issues
  617. # [18:42] <annevk> it really needs to be rewritten at some point :(
  618. # [18:43] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@bde20.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  619. # [18:43] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@bde20.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  620. # [18:43] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  621. # [18:43] <annevk> the positive thing here is that I've learned something the past couple of years
  622. # [18:43] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50-0-76-242.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  623. # [18:43] <annevk> so there's that
  624. # [18:43] <Hixie> annevk: we should merge things like fetch, cors, maybe mimesniff, and various others at some point, but i highly recommend waiting a few years
  625. # [18:43] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  626. # [18:44] <annevk> yeah merging fetch was coming to mind but indeed
  627. # [18:44] <annevk> patience
  628. # [18:44] <AryehGregor> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14913
  629. # [18:44] <annevk> AryehGregor++
  630. # [18:45] * Quits: jarek__ (~jarek@aear249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  631. # [18:45] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  632. # [18:47] <AryehGregor> Hixie, you have partial interface URL, but I don't see any reference to the full interface.
  633. # [18:47] <Hixie> yeah
  634. # [18:47] <Hixie> it doesn't exist yet
  635. # [18:48] <AryehGregor> That seems like a bit of a spec bug.
  636. # [18:48] * AryehGregor files it so he can put the bug number in his tests as a comment
  637. # [18:48] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  638. # [18:49] <annevk> AryehGregor: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
  639. # [18:49] <annevk> Hixie: ^^
  640. # [18:49] <annevk> I asked MikeSmith to define URL parsing in that spec too
  641. # [18:50] <AryehGregor> LGTM, but we need a reference. Also, that IDL itself doesn't parse, but that's a separate issue.
  642. # [18:50] <annevk> it's abarth's Google Docs document converted to HTML by me
  643. # [18:50] <annevk> I might have made some mistakes
  644. # [18:50] <AryehGregor> interface [Replaceable] URL {
  645. # [18:50] <AryehGregor> That looks like it's not your mistake. :)
  646. # [18:51] <AryehGregor> (easily fixable, though)
  647. # [18:51] * Quits: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@86.188.197.189) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  648. # [18:51] <Hixie> ah, cool, it exists now
  649. # [18:52] <Hixie> if you've filed a bug on me to update the html spec to point to that spec, thanks
  650. # [18:53] <annevk> I think that spec should eventually define Syntax/Parsing/Model/API
  651. # [18:53] <AryehGregor> I did, yeah.
  652. # [18:53] <annevk> for URLs
  653. # [18:53] <AryehGregor> I didn't give the spec URL, though.
  654. # [18:56] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166)
  655. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> So if I'm testing that document.body is an HTMLBodyElement and document.head is an HTMLHeadElement, does it make sense to repeat all the tests for Node/Element/HTMLElement for both objects?
  656. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> (for instance)
  657. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> That means they'd all be run once for every interface that extends HTMLElement.
  658. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> Since I'm testing one of each element type.
  659. # [18:56] <AryehGregor> That seems like a lot of repetition.
  660. # [18:57] * Joins: Phrogz (d8e47015@pdpc/supporter/professional/phrogz)
  661. # [18:58] * Joins: rillian_ (~rillian@mist.thaumas.net)
  662. # [18:58] <AryehGregor> It seems like it makes more sense to only do the tests for the bottommost interface if I've tested the higher ones, at least for most of the element types.
  663. # [18:58] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-xexkrlihdzbjfqrk) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  664. # [18:59] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-owfhfwkdlbzpkwmg)
  665. # [18:59] <jgraham> AryehGregor: Yeah, having huge numbers of tests that every HTML*Element is also an Element is just a waste of entropy
  666. # [19:00] <AryehGregor> And that it's an HTMLElement, and a Node.
  667. # [19:00] <jgraham> Indeed
  668. # [19:00] <AryehGregor> However, we do want to test that both Document and Text are Nodes, for instance.
  669. # [19:01] <AryehGregor> So I'll have to make it configurable somehow.
  670. # [19:02] <AryehGregor> Oh, so things like WindowBase64 are so that workers can implement them too, right? Interesting.
  671. # [19:02] * AryehGregor will have to support that
  672. # [19:03] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@bcr178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  673. # [19:03] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@bcr178.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  674. # [19:03] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  675. # [19:04] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  676. # [19:05] <Hixie> AryehGregor: re your mail about my crappy checkin comments, I've added a line to the checkin comment that lists the affected topics
  677. # [19:05] <Hixie> AryehGregor: it won't be perfect, certainly at first where a lot of the time it'll just say "Affected topics: HTML"
  678. # [19:05] <Hixie> AryehGregor: but it's a start
  679. # [19:05] <AryehGregor> Hixie, is it on the first line? If not, it won't be visible to anyone reading commit-watchers unless they look at the actual e-mail instead of just the subject.
  680. # [19:06] <Hixie> last line. If I make it the first line it'll be the only thing in the e-mail subject.
  681. # [19:06] * Joins: gavinc (~gavin@50-0-76-242.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  682. # [19:06] <AryehGregor> For non-editorial changes, you can usually figure out the general subject from the first line of the commit summary.
  683. # [19:07] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d0282f2.pool.mediaWays.net)
  684. # [19:07] <Hixie> yeah
  685. # [19:08] <AryehGregor> As I said, it's not a big deal for me, I just glance at all of them.
  686. # [19:10] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Read error: No route to host)
  687. # [19:12] * Quits: FlorianX (~Dimitri@p4FCF73ED.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  688. # [19:12] * Quits: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: astearns)
  689. # [19:13] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: Leaving)
  690. # [19:14] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  691. # [19:15] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  692. # [19:18] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  693. # [19:18] <AryehGregor> You know what's fun? When my tests call alert() with no arguments because that's supposed to throw, and WebKit doesn't throw but instead alerts the empty string, interrupting the tests.
  694. # [19:19] * Quits: shetech (~shetech@c-76-126-167-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  695. # [19:19] <AryehGregor> . . . then it hangs. I wonder what the last method it called was.
  696. # [19:19] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  697. # [19:21] <AryehGregor> window.open is fun too.
  698. # [19:22] <AryehGregor> ("pop-up blocked")
  699. # [19:25] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  700. # [19:26] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  701. # [19:27] * Parts: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  702. # [19:29] * Joins: shetech (~shetech@c-76-126-167-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  703. # [19:30] * Quits: Phrogz (d8e47015@pdpc/supporter/professional/phrogz) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  704. # [19:31] <zewt> sort of need browser help to test some stuff properly...
  705. # [19:32] <zewt> eg. a (restricted) api to fire keyboard/mouse input as if it was real user input, replace modal things (alert, file pickers) with a callback, that sort of thing
  706. # [19:32] <zewt> i assume browsers do all that for their internal testing anyway
  707. # [19:32] * Joins: dragon__ (~dragon@58-70-11-213f1.hyg2.eonet.ne.jp)
  708. # [19:32] * Quits: dragon__ (~dragon@58-70-11-213f1.hyg2.eonet.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  709. # [19:33] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.121.166) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  710. # [19:36] * Quits: deityofmadness (~deityofma@cm156.omega41.maxonline.com.sg) (Remote host closed the connection)
  711. # [19:38] <AryehGregor> HTML defines interface Function? o_O
  712. # [19:38] <AryehGregor> WTF?
  713. # [19:39] * Joins: Margle (~Margle@41-133-196-64.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  714. # [19:39] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  715. # [19:45] <Hixie> that predates WebIDL, i think. As far as I know, though, WebIDL still doesn't provide a type equivalent to that Function interface.
  716. # [19:47] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-100f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Quit: And Now for Something Completely Different.)
  717. # [19:48] <dglazkov> heycam: what's the new way to describe [Supplemental] in WebIDL?
  718. # [19:49] <dglazkov> Window implements SupplementalInterface?
  719. # [19:49] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  720. # [19:49] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  721. # [19:49] <Hixie> dglazkov: depends what you want exactly
  722. # [19:49] <Hixie> dglazkov: what are you trying to do?
  723. # [19:49] * Joins: micheil (~micheil@92.40.254.126.threembb.co.uk)
  724. # [19:49] * Quits: micheil (~micheil@92.40.254.126.threembb.co.uk) (Client Quit)
  725. # [19:49] * Joins: astearns (~anonymous@192.150.22.5)
  726. # [19:49] <dglazkov> I want to add "is" attribute to HTMLElement
  727. # [19:49] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  728. # [19:50] * Joins: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk)
  729. # [19:50] <Hixie> then you want a partial interface
  730. # [19:50] <dglazkov> oh cool
  731. # [19:50] <dglazkov> thanks
  732. # [19:51] * Joins: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-frwqrffkxyvhtidd)
  733. # [19:57] * Quits: scar3 (~scar2@unaffiliated/seoshark)
  734. # [19:59] <AryehGregor> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14916
  735. # [20:00] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  736. # [20:05] * Joins: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-osrpgzpaxvvvyner)
  737. # [20:12] * Quits: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  738. # [20:13] * Quits: Margle (~Margle@41-133-196-64.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  739. # [20:13] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  740. # [20:14] * Quits: davidb_ (~davidb@66.207.208.98) (Quit: davidb_)
  741. # [20:15] * Joins: Margle (~Margle@41-133-196-64.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  742. # [20:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  743. # [20:23] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  744. # [20:25] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  745. # [20:27] <dglazkov> does w3 have a way to create localized bug trackers for specs?
  746. # [20:27] <dglazkov> it would be nice to have all component model todos organized as bugs.
  747. # [20:29] <AryehGregor> dglazkov, you can request a component in their Bugzilla.
  748. # [20:30] <dglazkov> a component model component
  749. # [20:30] <dglazkov> will adding bugs not spam mailing lists?
  750. # [20:30] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  751. # [20:31] <dglazkov> or is that only for certain components?
  752. # [20:31] <AryehGregor> I don't know the details.
  753. # [20:32] <AryehGregor> I think it's configurable per-component which lists get notified.
  754. # [20:32] * Parts: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  755. # [20:33] * Quits: salavas (~salavas@c83-248-102-83.bredband.comhem.se) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  756. # [20:35] <AryehGregor> . . . location.hasOwnProperty is undefined in Gecko? Really?
  757. # [20:36] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@164.247.189.109.customer.cdi.no)
  758. # [20:39] <smaug____> AryehGregor: .location is so bizarre object that I don't expect much sanity in any implementation :)
  759. # [20:40] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  760. # [20:40] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  761. # [20:42] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  762. # [20:46] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-rlzcpkqxeijqhukn)
  763. # [20:46] * Joins: _bga (~bga@ppp78-37-252-92.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru)
  764. # [20:46] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@164.247.189.109.customer.cdi.no) (Quit: mishunov)
  765. # [20:47] * Quits: bga_ (~bga@ppp78-37-229-239.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  766. # [20:48] * Joins: ojan (ojan@nat/google/x-ksiszduemnerymwp)
  767. # [20:52] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@82.113.99.41)
  768. # [21:04] * Joins: shans (~shanestep@124-169-28-111.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  769. # [21:06] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  770. # [21:08] * Joins: shans_ (~shanestep@124-169-28-111.dyn.iinet.net.au)
  771. # [21:09] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  772. # [21:10] * Quits: shans (~shanestep@124-169-28-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  773. # [21:10] * shans_ is now known as shans
  774. # [21:10] <Hixie> i rather like this new notification system
  775. # [21:11] * Joins: KillerX_ (~anant@mpt-vpn.mozilla.com)
  776. # [21:12] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com) (Quit: adactio)
  777. # [21:16] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-frwqrffkxyvhtidd) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  778. # [21:16] * KillerX_ is now known as KillerX
  779. # [21:16] * Quits: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@76.92.215.21) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  780. # [21:23] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  781. # [21:25] * Quits: danielfilho (~daniel@187.31.77.7) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  782. # [21:25] * Joins: danielfilho (~daniel@187.31.77.7)
  783. # [21:26] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@76.92.215.21)
  784. # [21:29] * Joins: rubys (~rubys@cpe-098-027-059-167.nc.res.rr.com)
  785. # [21:29] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74)
  786. # [21:33] * Parts: rubys (~rubys@cpe-098-027-059-167.nc.res.rr.com)
  787. # [21:36] * Joins: tomasf_ (~tomasf@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  788. # [21:36] * Quits: tomasf_ (~tomasf@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Client Quit)
  789. # [21:36] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  790. # [21:46] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  791. # [21:46] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  792. # [21:47] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@bas1-toronto06-2925210074.dsl.bell.ca)
  793. # [21:49] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  794. # [21:51] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0105d7.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  795. # [21:56] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  796. # [21:57] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYKMCCCLXXXVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  797. # [22:01] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  798. # [22:05] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  799. # [22:11] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  800. # [22:12] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@bcv16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  801. # [22:12] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@bcv16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  802. # [22:12] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  803. # [22:14] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  804. # [22:18] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  805. # [22:21] * Joins: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-pribrasgw1-ff17c300-80.dhcp.inet.fi)
  806. # [22:22] <sicking> annevk: ping
  807. # [22:24] * Quits: shans (~shanestep@124-169-28-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  808. # [22:24] <TabAtkins> jarek: The grouping doesn't actually *do* anything. I don't know why it exists, but it's meaningless, since they're all using the | separator.
  809. # [22:25] <jarek> TabAtkins: I see, thanks letting me know
  810. # [22:27] <TabAtkins> jarek: No problem. All of the grammar combinators like that are associative, so grouping only has an effect when you're mixing combinators.
  811. # [22:29] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-102-208.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  812. # [22:32] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-113-248-229.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  813. # [22:32] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  814. # [22:37] <annevk> sicking: sort of here
  815. # [22:37] <annevk> sicking: gaming
  816. # [22:38] <sicking> annevk: so, ContentType is always added to the list of custom headers
  817. # [22:39] <sicking> annevk: but the server still doesn't need to send "Content-Type" in ac-response-headers if the value is "text/plain" "multipart/form-data" etc, right?
  818. # [22:39] <sicking> annevk: nor do we pre-flight if it's one of those values, right?
  819. # [22:39] <annevk> correct
  820. # [22:40] <annevk> the only requirement that changed is that the server needs to set Content-Type if it wants to handle it
  821. # [22:40] <annevk> in so far you can make server requirements
  822. # [22:41] <annevk> it's more advice I guess
  823. # [22:42] <rniwa> AryehGregor: ping
  824. # [22:43] * Joins: david_carlisle (~chatzilla@dcarlisle.demon.co.uk)
  825. # [22:46] <annevk> sicking: I don't think we want to change any UA requirements in the spec
  826. # [22:47] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.139.95)
  827. # [22:49] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  828. # [22:54] <Hixie> MikeSmith: i'm not going to touch the bugs that aren't assigned to me (counting contributor@ bugs as being mine)
  829. # [22:55] <divya> MikeSmith: Lemme know when you are here. got to ask you smthing
  830. # [22:55] * Joins: cpearce (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74)
  831. # [22:56] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  832. # [22:57] <sicking> annevk: what do you mean by "if it wants to handle it"?
  833. # [22:59] <annevk> the server section is currently written assuming a list of header names
  834. # [23:00] <annevk> we could have the weird content-type special case there too
  835. # [23:00] <annevk> but currently it's not there
  836. # [23:01] <annevk> just read the diff or the section, that's easier prolly :)
  837. # [23:04] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@aeat82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  838. # [23:04] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@aeat82.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  839. # [23:04] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  840. # [23:04] <Ms2ger> annevk, web-apps-tracker frontpage seems to be out of date
  841. # [23:06] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  842. # [23:08] <sicking> annevk: oh, you're saying that the spec now recommends that if the server want's the client to be able to set "Content-Type", then it should add it to the acah-header. No matter what values it wants to allow
  843. # [23:09] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GZYMMMCDXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  844. # [23:09] <annevk> sicking: basically
  845. # [23:09] <annevk> Ms2ger: did source change?
  846. # [23:09] <Ms2ger> Yes
  847. # [23:09] <Ms2ger> 6829 [Authors] [Conformance Checkers] [Gecko] [Internet Explorer] [Opera] [Webkit] [Tools] extend timezone format to also allow omitting the colon 2011-11-18 23:22
  848. # [23:09] <Ms2ger> Is the newest I get
  849. # [23:10] <sicking> annevk: hmm.. we should probably add the exception there too
  850. # [23:10] <sicking> annevk: for people using the spec as documentation. Also so that people don't think they are safe if they don't add it
  851. # [23:10] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: Leaving)
  852. # [23:11] <annevk> feel free to suggest a rewrite
  853. # [23:12] <annevk> few people did give feedback on that section
  854. # [23:12] <annevk> so I guess it's of use to some
  855. # [23:12] <annevk> but I don't really like it
  856. # [23:12] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  857. # [23:13] <annevk> Ms2ger: no idea what that can be
  858. # [23:13] * Ms2ger hopes it'll go away on itself, then
  859. # [23:13] <annevk> doubt it
  860. # [23:16] <annevk> Ms2ger: http://svn.whatwg.org/webapps/ says the same as web-apps-tracker
  861. # [23:18] <annevk> sicking: also, I think the current text is fine
  862. # [23:18] <annevk> sicking: it explains the whole thing
  863. # [23:25] * Quits: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  864. # [23:27] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  865. # [23:34] * Quits: gavinc (~gavin@50-0-76-242.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  866. # [23:35] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GZYMMMCDXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  867. # [23:36] * Joins: shans (~shanestep@74.125.56.17)
  868. # [23:36] <timeless> Ms2ger / annevk : if i stuck up minutes for tpac webapps mon/tue + comp(wed), would any of you proof them?
  869. # [23:37] <Ms2ger> Perhaps
  870. # [23:37] <Ms2ger> But not tonight
  871. # [23:38] <timeless> so, should i send them direct to you?
  872. # [23:38] * timeless doesn't have particularly handy web servers
  873. # [23:38] <Ms2ger> Sure
  874. # [23:41] * Joins: adactio_ (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com)
  875. # [23:41] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@85-95-96-116.adsl.izrsolutions.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  876. # [23:41] <timeless> ok, i presume you won't be doing scribe edits, so i'm just sending the files as i expect to commit them
  877. # [23:41] * adactio_ is now known as adactio
  878. # [23:41] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  879. # [23:42] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  880. # [23:42] <timeless> enjoy
  881. # [23:42] * timeless crosses task off todo list for a bit
  882. # [23:42] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  883. # [23:42] <timeless> that just leaves expenses
  884. # [23:42] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  885. # [23:46] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  886. # [23:46] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  887. # [23:49] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  888. # [23:53] * Joins: benjoffe (~benjoffe@119.252.71.224)
  889. # [23:53] * Parts: grendzy (~dylan@12.155.34.74)
  890. # Session Close: Thu Nov 24 00:00:00 2011

The end :)