/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-11-28 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Nov 28 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:01] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  4. # [00:08] * Quits: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  5. # [00:09] * Joins: oal (u4126@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fsncshbnkbhqkqwv)
  6. # [00:10] * Joins: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2091.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  7. # [00:17] * Joins: niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bubaldecqefxjoxc)
  8. # [00:18] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  9. # [00:21] * Quits: Morphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  10. # [00:32] * doublec_ is now known as doublec
  11. # [00:32] * Quits: doublec (~doublec@cd.pn) (Changing host)
  12. # [00:32] * Joins: doublec (~doublec@unaffiliated/doublec)
  13. # [00:33] * nimbu is now known as divya
  14. # [00:37] * Joins: Morphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  15. # [00:52] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@209-23-243-49-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  16. # [00:52] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@209-23-243-49-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Changing host)
  17. # [00:52] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
  18. # [01:21] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-67-164-92-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  19. # [01:28] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  20. # [01:31] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-211-128.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  21. # [01:39] * Quits: drublic_ (~drublic@frbg-5d84e6c6.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  22. # [01:40] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-67-164-92-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  23. # [01:46] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-67-164-92-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  24. # [01:48] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  25. # [01:53] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.18.201)
  26. # [01:55] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-168-36-69.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
  27. # [01:58] * Joins: jankeromnes (~janx@acces2527.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  28. # [01:59] * Joins: yuuki (~kobayashi@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  29. # [02:00] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-209-84.revip4.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  30. # [02:01] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@pool-98-119-126-225.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Quit: tantek)
  31. # [02:02] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-212-118.revip4.asianet.co.th)
  32. # [02:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-67-164-92-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  33. # [02:04] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  34. # [02:05] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74)
  35. # [02:10] * Quits: jankeromnes (~janx@acces2527.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  36. # [02:23] * Quits: garr (garr@host86-134-4-65.range86-134.btcentralplus.com)
  37. # [02:33] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-202-210-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  38. # [02:41] * Quits: jdong_ (~quassel@222.126.155.250) (Remote host closed the connection)
  39. # [02:42] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  40. # [02:43] * Joins: jdong_ (~quassel@222.126.155.250)
  41. # [02:46] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@pool-98-119-126-225.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  42. # [02:53] * nunnun is now known as nunnun_away
  43. # [02:56] * Joins: J_Voracek (~J_Voracek@71.21.195.70)
  44. # [02:56] * Joins: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  45. # [03:12] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@112-68-245-159f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  46. # [03:12] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB196D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  47. # [03:13] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1D99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  48. # [03:27] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  49. # [03:38] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Quit: Leaving.)
  50. # [03:47] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  51. # [03:49] * Quits: J_Voracek (~J_Voracek@71.21.195.70) (Quit: disconnected: Jace Voracek - Jace@Jace-Place.com)
  52. # [03:56] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-90-140f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  53. # [04:16] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  54. # [04:23] * Joins: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:baac:6fff:fe99:adfb)
  55. # [04:27] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-212-118.revip4.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  56. # [04:43] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@220.109.219.244)
  57. # [04:45] * Quits: cpearce (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  58. # [05:21] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-90-140f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  59. # [05:21] * Joins: cpearce (~chatzilla@ip-118-90-36-154.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)
  60. # [05:24] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B779.dip.t-dialin.net)
  61. # [05:26] * Quits: macpherson (macpherson@nat/google/x-snnixedylkebdxhc) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  62. # [05:27] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326735.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  63. # [05:38] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-223-24-255-39.revip6.asianet.co.th)
  64. # [06:00] * Joins: macpherson (macpherson@nat/google/x-jwuxmgnfpwyfdlac)
  65. # [06:05] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  66. # [06:24] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  67. # [06:29] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@199.36.244.11)
  68. # [06:34] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-202-210-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  69. # [06:41] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-084-062-039-049.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  70. # [06:43] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  71. # [06:44] * Quits: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@199.36.244.11) (Quit: c_t_montgomery)
  72. # [07:14] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-223-24-255-39.revip6.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  73. # [07:26] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-213-109.revip4.asianet.co.th)
  74. # [07:29] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-245-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  75. # [07:30] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  76. # [07:32] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-211-128.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  77. # [07:32] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  78. # [07:43] * Joins: Telling (~unknown@80-71-135-15.u.parknet.dk)
  79. # [07:53] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  80. # [07:53] <rniwa> good evening everyone
  81. # [07:55] <rniwa> Hixie: yt?
  82. # [08:02] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  83. # [08:04] * Quits: Telling (~unknown@80-71-135-15.u.parknet.dk) (Quit: ...)
  84. # [08:07] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  85. # [08:28] * Joins: reuben_ (~Seta00@seta00.com)
  86. # [08:30] * Joins: dave_levin (dave_levin@nat/google/x-zgbmrnhfvipmzfmp)
  87. # [08:30] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  88. # [08:37] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@84.38.144.96)
  89. # [08:37] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  90. # [08:37] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  91. # [08:38] * Joins: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ozonszduhfhtnoon)
  92. # [08:54] * Joins: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-afnfmskxzmtbbxfa)
  93. # [09:01] * Joins: Margle (~margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  94. # [09:02] * Joins: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  95. # [09:04] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net)
  96. # [09:04] * Joins: woef (~woef@91.183.84.141)
  97. # [09:18] * jacobolu_ is now known as jacobolus
  98. # [09:20] * Parts: nattokirai (~nattokira@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  99. # [09:31] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.18.201) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
  100. # [09:34] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-213-109.revip4.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  101. # [09:34] * nunnun_away is now known as nunnun
  102. # [09:35] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-214-125.revip4.asianet.co.th)
  103. # [09:41] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-214-125.revip4.asianet.co.th) (Quit: Leaving)
  104. # [09:53] * Quits: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B05CBC9.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  105. # [09:56] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@84.38.144.96) (Remote host closed the connection)
  106. # [09:56] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  107. # [09:57] * Quits: Margle (~margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  108. # [09:58] * Joins: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B137B7E.dip.t-dialin.net)
  109. # [10:01] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@adsl-75-24-105-159.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  110. # [10:09] * Joins: Margle (~margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  111. # [10:11] * Quits: Margle (~margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Client Quit)
  112. # [10:11] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-vewwveyuxgiommpg)
  113. # [10:11] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@nat/canonical/x-vewwveyuxgiommpg) (Changing host)
  114. # [10:11] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  115. # [10:16] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.16.158)
  116. # [10:16] * Quits: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  117. # [10:22] * Joins: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com)
  118. # [10:22] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: rniwa)
  119. # [10:24] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  120. # [10:24] * Joins: Margle (~margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  121. # [10:28] * Joins: mpt (~mpt@canonical/mpt)
  122. # [10:31] * Joins: foolip (~philip@83.218.67.122)
  123. # [10:32] * Joins: The_Kingdutch (~kingdutch@188.200.149.217)
  124. # [10:33] * Quits: Kingdutch (~kingdutch@188.200.149.217) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  125. # [10:34] * Quits: pererik (~pe@unaffiliated/pererik) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  126. # [10:34] * Quits: abarth (~abarth@2002:ada4:80d1:0:3dde:4cf5:42c0:3c3d) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  127. # [10:35] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.30.160)
  128. # [10:35] * Joins: pererik (~pe@c-89-233-213-67.cust.bredband2.com)
  129. # [10:36] * Quits: pererik (~pe@c-89-233-213-67.cust.bredband2.com) (Changing host)
  130. # [10:36] * Joins: pererik (~pe@unaffiliated/pererik)
  131. # [10:39] * Quits: cpearce (~chatzilla@ip-118-90-36-154.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  132. # [10:45] * Quits: dave_levin (dave_levin@nat/google/x-zgbmrnhfvipmzfmp) (Quit: dave_levin)
  133. # [10:50] * Joins: abarth (~abarth@2002:ada4:80d1:0:c9e6:5297:ac1:117b)
  134. # [10:55] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  135. # [11:02] * Joins: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-pribrasgw1-ff17c300-80.dhcp.inet.fi)
  136. # [11:05] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d0290c6.pool.mediaWays.net)
  137. # [11:07] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  138. # [11:13] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  139. # [11:21] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@220.109.219.244) (Quit: Leaving.)
  140. # [11:35] * Quits: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@adsl-75-24-105-159.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: c_t_montgomery)
  141. # [11:40] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  142. # [11:45] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  143. # [11:53] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYYMMMCMLI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  144. # [12:03] * Joins: garr (garr@host86-158-20-245.range86-158.btcentralplus.com)
  145. # [12:04] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  146. # [12:04] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGYYYMMMCMLI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  147. # [12:09] <hsivonen> people sure paste weird stuff into the comment form on the spec
  148. # [12:15] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  149. # [12:16] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GZYYYXXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  150. # [12:16] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  151. # [12:22] <finnala^> Like what?
  152. # [12:25] <zcorpan> hsivonen: it's almost like the "ctrl-v" thread in various forums
  153. # [12:26] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ctrl-v thread?
  154. # [12:26] <hsivonen> finnala^: like an iPhone crash dump
  155. # [12:28] <zcorpan> hsivonen: e.g. http://www.webforum.nu/showthread.php?t=108702
  156. # [12:30] <hsivonen> zcorpan: that's a meme I haven't seen before
  157. # [12:33] <hsivonen> http://thecodinghumanist.com/blog/archives/2011/11/15/the-kindle-fire-user-agent-string
  158. # [12:33] <hsivonen> Amazon has the good sense not to put "Android" in their UA string
  159. # [12:34] <finnala^> hsivonen: Sounds like fun reading.
  160. # [12:37] * Quits: garr (garr@host86-158-20-245.range86-158.btcentralplus.com)
  161. # [12:37] * Quits: Stikki (~lordstich@dsl-pribrasgw1-ff17c300-80.dhcp.inet.fi)
  162. # [12:39] * Joins: jessedijkstra (~jessedijk@buro.speedxs.nl)
  163. # [12:46] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  164. # [12:52] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-223-24-63-136.revip6.asianet.co.th)
  165. # [12:56] * nunnun is now known as nunnun_away
  166. # [12:58] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-115-15.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: kennyluck)
  167. # [13:00] * Quits: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  168. # [13:03] * Joins: benjoffe (~benjoffe@123.208.92.23)
  169. # [13:06] * Joins: stalled (~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled)
  170. # [13:09] <erlehmann> hsivonen, lies. HNNNNGGG. are there so many sites relying on user agent LIES?
  171. # [13:10] <hsivonen> erlehmann: there seem to be many sites that give feature phone content to browsers that have "Android" in the UA string but that don't match the UA string of the Android stock browser on a well-known device like Nexus One
  172. # [13:11] <hsivonen> the logic seems to be:
  173. # [13:11] <hsivonen> if (UA string that the author tested) {
  174. # [13:11] <hsivonen> iPhone_site();
  175. # [13:11] <hsivonen> } else if (mobile traits) {
  176. # [13:12] <hsivonen> feature_phone_site();
  177. # [13:12] <hsivonen> } else {
  178. # [13:12] <hsivonen> desktop_site();
  179. # [13:12] <hsivonen> }
  180. # [13:12] <hsivonen> and "Android" counts as a mobile trait
  181. # [13:12] <erlehmann> hsivonen, i see their fail and reach for my media queries.
  182. # [13:13] <hsivonen> the user experience of Firefox on tablets goes up tremendously by faking the UA string of desktop Linux Firefox
  183. # [13:14] <hsivonen> my understanding so far is that eliminating the substring "Android" is the key
  184. # [13:15] * Quits: asmodai (asmodai@178-85-121-247.dynamic.upc.nl) (Quit: leaving)
  185. # [13:15] * Joins: asmodai (asmodai@178-85-121-247.dynamic.upc.nl)
  186. # [13:16] <erlehmann> hsivonen, is there a concerted effort to KILL AND MAIM javascript frameworks who encourage this stupid UA testing?
  187. # [13:16] <hsivonen> erlehmann: it's probably most often server-side code than JS
  188. # [13:17] <erlehmann> hsivonen, is there a concerted effort to KILL AND MAIM server-side code frameworks who encourage etc. pp.?
  189. # [13:17] <hsivonen> erlehmann: not to my knowledge
  190. # [13:18] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-28f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  191. # [13:22] * Joins: beverloo (peter@nat/google/x-sakogwsmfvtqnaet)
  192. # [13:24] * Joins: jankeromnes (~janx@acces2527.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  193. # [13:29] * Joins: MikeSmith_ (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-61-50.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  194. # [13:32] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-245-103.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  195. # [13:32] * MikeSmith_ is now known as MikeSmith
  196. # [13:35] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  197. # [13:35] * Quits: benjoffe (~benjoffe@123.208.92.23) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  198. # [13:43] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-223-24-63-136.revip6.asianet.co.th) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  199. # [13:43] * Joins: garr (~crux@host86-138-171-213.range86-138.btcentralplus.com)
  200. # [13:47] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-25-232-95.dynamic.hinet.net)
  201. # [13:57] * Joins: richt (~richt@ti0125a380-0478.bb.online.no)
  202. # [13:58] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  203. # [13:58] * Joins: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net)
  204. # [13:59] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-49-237-10-25.revip6.asianet.co.th)
  205. # [14:01] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0105d7.bb.sky.com)
  206. # [14:09] * Quits: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082B779.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
  207. # [14:16] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-28f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Quit: And Now for Something Completely Different.)
  208. # [14:16] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GZYYYXXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  209. # [14:16] * Quits: richt (~richt@ti0125a380-0478.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  210. # [14:21] * Quits: yuuki (~kobayashi@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  211. # [14:26] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  212. # [14:30] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  213. # [14:36] * Joins: richt (~richt@ti0125a380-0478.bb.online.no)
  214. # [14:56] * Joins: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  215. # [14:57] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-49-237-10-25.revip6.asianet.co.th) (Quit: Leaving)
  216. # [14:58] * Quits: richt (~richt@ti0125a380-0478.bb.online.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  217. # [14:59] * salavas is now known as _salavas
  218. # [15:00] * Joins: dragon__ (~dragon@58-70-11-213f1.hyg2.eonet.ne.jp)
  219. # [15:01] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  220. # [15:06] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-25-232-95.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: kennyluck)
  221. # [15:06] * Joins: davidb_ (~davidb@66.207.208.98)
  222. # [15:06] * Quits: virtuelv (~virtuelv_@pat-tdc.opera.com) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  223. # [15:08] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186)
  224. # [15:11] <jgraham> AryehGregor: Would it be a problem for you if we move testharness.js and other related bits to its own repo and make it owned by the testing IG rather than the HTMLWG?
  225. # [15:17] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@84-72-45-52.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  226. # [15:17] * Quits: Dashiva (Dashiva@84-72-45-52.dclient.hispeed.ch) (Changing host)
  227. # [15:17] * Joins: Dashiva (Dashiva@wikia/Dashiva)
  228. # [15:19] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@77.72.97.5.c.fiberdirekt.net) (Quit: tomasf)
  229. # [15:25] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  230. # [15:26] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZKMDCCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  231. # [15:37] * Joins: Telling (~unknown@80-71-135-15.u.parknet.dk)
  232. # [15:40] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  233. # [15:40] * Quits: theamoeba (~theamoeba@41-133-237-214.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: theamoeba)
  234. # [15:46] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZKMDCCXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  235. # [15:52] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  236. # [15:57] <karlcow> MikeSmith: I can't find anymore your demo of Japanese script layout
  237. # [15:59] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@95.209.20.66.bredband.tre.se)
  238. # [16:10] * Quits: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  239. # [16:10] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYMYCCXXXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  240. # [16:13] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  241. # [16:13] <timeless> script layout?
  242. # [16:13] * Joins: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  243. # [16:13] <timeless> that reminds me, i was supposed to file a bug about some CJK IMEs today
  244. # [16:20] <AryehGregor> jgraham, it makes sense. Does it have any practical implications either way?
  245. # [16:29] <karlcow> timeless: I remember that Mike Smith had made a demo where you could see the text vertical or horizontal
  246. # [16:30] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@95.209.20.66.bredband.tre.se) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  247. # [16:31] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@95.209.20.66.bredband.tre.se)
  248. # [16:31] * Quits: tomasf (~tomasf@95.209.20.66.bredband.tre.se) (Client Quit)
  249. # [16:32] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYMYCCXXXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  250. # [16:33] * nunnun_away is now known as nunnun
  251. # [16:34] <karlcow> hmm maybe it was using a rotate on ruby. not sure
  252. # [16:35] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  253. # [16:37] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-115-15.dynamic.hinet.net)
  254. # [16:39] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  255. # [16:43] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-212-140.revip4.asianet.co.th)
  256. # [16:47] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@108-70-132-46.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net)
  257. # [16:58] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  258. # [17:00] * Quits: silky (~silky@pool-74-108-142-22.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  259. # [17:05] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-115-15.dynamic.hinet.net) (Quit: kennyluck)
  260. # [17:05] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-115-15.dynamic.hinet.net)
  261. # [17:05] <jgraham> AryehGregor: Depending on the setup it might mean that you have to join the IG to push
  262. # [17:06] <jgraham> (at the moment you have to be in HTML or WebApps AIUI)
  263. # [17:09] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.30.160) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
  264. # [17:09] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5082B779.dip.t-dialin.net)
  265. # [17:10] * Quits: romainhuet (u2533@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kzbezvxavakhrchy) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  266. # [17:15] * Quits: Margle (~margle@41-134-44-169.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  267. # [17:19] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@bcu163.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  268. # [17:19] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@bcu163.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  269. # [17:19] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  270. # [17:19] * Quits: jessedijkstra (~jessedijk@buro.speedxs.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  271. # [17:22] <jarek> is there any difference between "@namespace blah url(http://blah.com);" and "@namespace blah 'blah';"?
  272. # [17:23] <annevk> no
  273. # [17:24] <annevk> oh sorry
  274. # [17:24] <annevk> yes
  275. # [17:24] <annevk> the namespace is different
  276. # [17:24] <annevk> if you wanted to ask whether there was a difference between using quotes and the URL function, there is none
  277. # [17:26] <jarek> annevk: I thought that all namespeaces should have URI form, what's the point in allowing strings?
  278. # [17:27] <annevk> we should probably not have allowed the URL function, because it behaves very differently from e.g. background:url(...)
  279. # [17:27] <annevk> while namespaces are URLs
  280. # [17:27] <annevk> they are universally treated as strings
  281. # [17:27] <annevk> they are not resolved
  282. # [17:28] <annevk> and compared codepoint for codepoint
  283. # [17:28] <annevk> very different from URLs
  284. # [17:28] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  285. # [17:29] <annevk> e.g. www.w3.org cannot use "/1999/xhtml" as namespace for documents they publish
  286. # [17:29] <annevk> that is distinct from the "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" namespace
  287. # [17:30] <jarek> annevk: I see, thanks for clarification
  288. # [17:32] * Quits: garr (~crux@host86-138-171-213.range86-138.btcentralplus.com)
  289. # [17:34] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@adsl-75-24-105-159.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  290. # [17:37] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  291. # [17:38] <timeless> and of course if it wasn't the case that the strings were not resolved, then if w3c had used /1999/xhtml then anyone doing copy+paste would break if they hosted anywhere outside www.w3.org :)
  292. # [17:42] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-180-214-212-140.revip4.asianet.co.th) (Quit: Leaving)
  293. # [17:45] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  294. # [17:45] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d0290c6.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  295. # [17:47] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@2620:149:4:1b01:edeb:9961:c960:c5e7)
  296. # [17:51] * Joins: jarek__ (~jarek@aear191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  297. # [17:51] * jarek is now known as Guest57732
  298. # [17:52] * Quits: astearns (~anonymous@c-50-132-63-33.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: astearns)
  299. # [17:53] * Quits: jankeromnes (~janx@acces2527.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Quit: jankeromnes)
  300. # [17:53] * Quits: jarek__ (~jarek@aear191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Client Quit)
  301. # [17:53] * Joins: jarek__ (~jarek@aear191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  302. # [17:53] * jarek__ is now known as jarek
  303. # [17:54] * Quits: Guest57732 (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  304. # [17:54] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@aear191.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Changing host)
  305. # [17:54] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  306. # [17:56] * Joins: jankeromnes (~janx@acces2527.res.insa-lyon.fr)
  307. # [18:00] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84f1d1.pool.mediaWays.net)
  308. # [18:02] * Joins: rillian_ (~rillian@184.71.166.126)
  309. # [18:02] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@97.107.38.91)
  310. # [18:04] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@97.107.38.91) (Client Quit)
  311. # [18:07] * Joins: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-nnnfmodaliefjjvo)
  312. # [18:10] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  313. # [18:10] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  314. # [18:11] * Quits: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@adsl-75-24-105-159.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: c_t_montgomery)
  315. # [18:11] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYGKCCCLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  316. # [18:13] * Joins: FlorianX (~Dimitri@p4FCF70A0.dip.t-dialin.net)
  317. # [18:15] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:c940:4776:528:bc5f)
  318. # [18:19] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  319. # [18:20] * Joins: Maurice` (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  320. # [18:21] * Joins: dave_levin (dave_levin@nat/google/x-smolwxxvpsdbaueg)
  321. # [18:21] <annevk> morning dglazkov
  322. # [18:21] <annevk> for attributes there's:
  323. # [18:21] <annevk> * remove
  324. # [18:22] <annevk> * create an append
  325. # [18:22] <annevk> and*
  326. # [18:22] <annevk> * change value
  327. # [18:22] <annevk> change value is either by qualified name or namespace and local name
  328. # [18:23] <annevk> create and append is by local name and optionally a namespace and prefix
  329. # [18:24] * Quits: woef (~woef@91.183.84.141) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  330. # [18:24] <annevk> remove is the same as change value
  331. # [18:28] <annevk> Lachy: any progress on wiki updates?
  332. # [18:30] <Lachy> annevk, no. I need to discuss it with AryehGregor and get his help to set it up
  333. # [18:33] <annevk> can you remove the ability for people to register for now?
  334. # [18:33] <annevk> it sucks, but that at least makes http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges useful again and reduces make work for me
  335. # [18:34] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  336. # [18:44] * Joins: ap_ (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:b438:cef7:8935:a19)
  337. # [18:47] * Joins: c_t_montgomery (~c_t_montg@199.83.223.215)
  338. # [18:54] * Joins: KillerX_ (~anant@2620:101:8003:200:28cd:e82d:92e6:a68f)
  339. # [18:58] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@nat/mozilla/x-nnnfmodaliefjjvo) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  340. # [18:58] * KillerX_ is now known as KillerX
  341. # [19:01] * Joins: silky (~silky@pool-74-108-142-22.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
  342. # [19:04] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  343. # [19:04] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYGKCCCLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  344. # [19:07] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  345. # [19:08] <Lachy> annevk, we could probably set up this extension too later. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmAccount
  346. # [19:08] <Lachy> But I'll go and disable account creation entirely for now
  347. # [19:09] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@c-71-198-169-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  348. # [19:12] * Quits: Jedi_ (~Jedi@jedi.org) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  349. # [19:14] * Joins: cpearce (~chatzilla@ip-118-90-36-154.xdsl.xnet.co.nz)
  350. # [19:22] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  351. # [19:22] * Quits: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  352. # [19:24] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-ptsggmhxghxuijcd) (Remote host closed the connection)
  353. # [19:24] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-fkyyxduchefdawmf)
  354. # [19:27] * Maurice` is now known as Maurice
  355. # [19:27] * Joins: astearns (~anonymous@192.150.22.5)
  356. # [19:29] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-84-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  357. # [19:31] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-kcfsrcthllupckkr)
  358. # [19:32] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90)
  359. # [19:32] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM111-191-61-50.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  360. # [19:36] * Quits: FlorianX (~Dimitri@p4FCF70A0.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  361. # [19:39] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-113-255-26.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  362. # [19:42] * Joins: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-bkklukxvvckcaukw)
  363. # [19:45] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-84-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  364. # [19:51] <annevk> thanks hober
  365. # [19:51] <annevk> re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Nov/0705.html
  366. # [19:55] * Parts: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  367. # [20:04] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  368. # [20:05] * Quits: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-kcfsrcthllupckkr) (Quit: jamesr)
  369. # [20:05] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-205-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  370. # [20:10] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  371. # [20:13] * ap_ is now known as ap
  372. # [20:14] * Joins: cgcardona (~cgcardona@unaffiliated/cgcardona)
  373. # [20:15] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  374. # [20:16] * Quits: cpearce (~chatzilla@ip-118-90-36-154.xdsl.xnet.co.nz) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  375. # [20:17] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  376. # [20:18] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  377. # [20:22] * Quits: espadrine (~thaddee_t@acces2091.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  378. # [20:23] * Quits: jankeromnes (~janx@acces2527.res.insa-lyon.fr) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  379. # [20:25] * Quits: bga (bga@fr6.freebnc.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  380. # [20:28] * Joins: tantek_ (~tantek@pool-98-119-126-225.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)
  381. # [20:31] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-084-062-039-049.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  382. # [20:32] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  383. # [20:42] * Joins: bga_ (~bga@95-55-41-236.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru)
  384. # [20:43] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-205-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  385. # [20:44] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  386. # [20:45] * Quits: bga_ (~bga@95-55-41-236.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru) (Client Quit)
  387. # [20:47] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  388. # [20:52] * Joins: bga_ (~bga@95-55-41-236.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru)
  389. # [20:53] * Joins: bga (bga@fr6.freebnc.net)
  390. # [20:56] * Quits: bga_ (~bga@95-55-41-236.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru) (Client Quit)
  391. # [20:59] * Joins: jennb (jennb@nat/google/x-agjrqpgsgglfxwxm)
  392. # [21:03] * Joins: jamesr (jamesr@nat/google/x-yuaytchqpqiiznam)
  393. # [21:06] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGZYYKMMMCDLXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  394. # [21:13] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  395. # [21:15] * Joins: Margle (~margle@41-133-196-64.dsl.mweb.co.za)
  396. # [21:15] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGZYYKMMMCDLXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  397. # [21:21] * Quits: dragon__ (~dragon@58-70-11-213f1.hyg2.eonet.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  398. # [21:23] * Quits: tantek_ (~tantek@pool-98-119-126-225.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) (Quit: tantek_)
  399. # [21:27] * Joins: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  400. # [21:28] <Hixie> MikeSmith: yt?
  401. # [21:29] * Joins: cpearce (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74)
  402. # [21:35] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:b438:cef7:8935:a19) (Quit: ap)
  403. # [21:36] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  404. # [21:37] * Joins: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba)
  405. # [21:40] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZKDCXXXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  406. # [21:47] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  407. # [21:49] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-084-062-039-049.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  408. # [21:50] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  409. # [21:50] * Parts: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  410. # [21:51] * Joins: L04f3r (~komposmew@adsl-98-68-180-219.cha.bellsouth.net)
  411. # [21:53] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-084-062-039-049.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Client Quit)
  412. # [21:55] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  413. # [21:58] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZKDCXXXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  414. # [22:04] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-28-129.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  415. # [22:05] * Joins: KillerX_ (~anant@2620:101:8003:200:902c:573c:8b6b:b231)
  416. # [22:06] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  417. # [22:06] * Quits: KillerX (~anant@2620:101:8003:200:28cd:e82d:92e6:a68f) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  418. # [22:06] * KillerX_ is now known as KillerX
  419. # [22:09] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  420. # [22:09] * Quits: Margle (~margle@41-133-196-64.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  421. # [22:10] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
  422. # [22:11] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-155-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  423. # [22:11] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  424. # [22:16] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  425. # [22:19] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: Leaving)
  426. # [22:20] * Joins: franksalim (~frank@64-71-23-251.static.wiline.com)
  427. # [22:23] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  428. # [22:27] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.91.157)
  429. # [22:30] <Hixie> so the spec has:
  430. # [22:30] <Hixie> [TreatNullAs=EmptyString] attribute DOMString alinkColor;
  431. # [22:30] <Hixie> to which the webidl checker says:
  432. # [22:30] <Hixie> 1 Line 0 of IDL #0:Extended attribute TreatNullAs used on Document.alinkColor without required “String” argument.
  433. # [22:31] <Hixie> is that just a webidl checker bug?
  434. # [22:32] <timeless> that *sounds* like a bug
  435. # [22:32] * Quits: davidb_ (~davidb@66.207.208.98) (Quit: davidb_)
  436. # [22:33] <timeless> dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#TreatNullAs -- The [TreatNullAs] extended attribute MUST take the identifier EmptyString.
  437. # [22:35] <Hixie> yeah that was my conclusion too
  438. # [22:35] <Hixie> ok i'll just ignore for now then
  439. # [22:36] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:c940:4776:528:bc5f) (Quit: tomasf)
  440. # [22:55] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-152-131.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Remote host closed the connection)
  441. # [22:55] * Quits: andyg (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Quit: andyg)
  442. # [22:56] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.16.158) (Quit: Bye!)
  443. # [22:59] <annevk> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011OctDec/0239.html o_O
  444. # [22:59] <zewt> first-class-citizens only
  445. # [23:00] <miketaylr> O_o
  446. # [23:06] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  447. # [23:06] * Quits: saba (~foo@unaffiliated/saba) (Quit: leaving)
  448. # [23:17] <tantek> annevk - just saw that. shall I take a shot at replying? essentially that for the purposes of more liberal licensing we are pursuing fullscreen outside of the current CSSWG charter, with the intent to contribute to a community group with liberal licensing as described in the draft.
  449. # [23:18] <annevk> tantek: I changed the style sheet
  450. # [23:18] <tantek> since editor-ship hours appear to be one of the limiting factors of W3C spec development, it seems reasonable that editors (who contribute the content) have the right to choose their licensing.
  451. # [23:20] * Joins: glazou (~glazou@sge78-3-82-247-96-19.fbx.proxad.net)
  452. # [23:20] <annevk> tantek: such a reply wfm
  453. # [23:20] <tantek> sure, different style sheet helps
  454. # [23:20] <tantek> ok
  455. # [23:21] <glazou> tantek: you can choose the way you want ; but those terms are not compatible with an AC vote without prior discussion
  456. # [23:21] <tantek> glazou - they are compatible in a CG
  457. # [23:21] <glazou> unburry the tomahawk if you wish
  458. # [23:21] <tantek> expressly noted, please see this for details: http://tantek.com/2011/240/b1/w3c-community-groups-opportunities-suggestions-challenges
  459. # [23:22] <glazou> but this document MUST be changed or nixed right now
  460. # [23:22] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  461. # [23:22] <annevk> bullshit
  462. # [23:22] <glazou> it's **curently** under AC vote and PR observation
  463. # [23:22] <annevk> this document isn't
  464. # [23:22] <tantek> glazou - why must the current document be changed?
  465. # [23:22] <glazou> because it lists licensing terms that were never given to ACs
  466. # [23:22] <tantek> I'll repeat: for the purposes of more liberal licensing Anne and I are pursuing Fullscreen outside of the current CSSWG charter, with the intent to contribute to a community group with liberal licensing as described in the draft.
  467. # [23:23] <annevk> glazou: this draft was not developed at the W3C or by the AC
  468. # [23:23] * Joins: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  469. # [23:23] <glazou> fine
  470. # [23:23] <tantek> glazou - that's not a requirement of CGs.
  471. # [23:23] <glazou> then don't put in dev.w3.org
  472. # [23:23] <glazou> then keep it inside CG
  473. # [23:23] <glazou> not in WG charter
  474. # [23:23] <tantek> CGs allow for additional licensing that ACs have never seen before.
  475. # [23:23] <glazou> no problem
  476. # [23:23] <glazou> but it's in WG charter
  477. # [23:23] <annevk> there's other CG documents hosted on dcvs.w3.org
  478. # [23:23] <glazou> and that is currently voted
  479. # [23:23] <glazou> annevk: they're not in WG charter
  480. # [23:23] <tantek> glazou I raised that question in my blog post about CGs a while ago
  481. # [23:23] <glazou> I don't care about other docs
  482. # [23:23] <tantek> so far it is unanswered
  483. # [23:24] <annevk> a couple of words on the charter does not give you ownership of something I wrote glazou
  484. # [23:24] <annevk> that's nonsense
  485. # [23:24] <tantek> above URL
  486. # [23:24] <hober> editing is in a wg charter, two wgs even
  487. # [23:24] <tantek> "How should community groups coordinate (if at all) with existing working groups in areas of overlap?"
  488. # [23:24] <glazou> annevk: you're such a young fanatic not caring about IPR it's something exhausting
  489. # [23:24] <glazou> sometimes
  490. # [23:24] <zewt> ...
  491. # [23:24] <glazou> tantek: that's unanswered ATM
  492. # [23:25] <tantek> glazou and as such, you cannot make conclusive demands.
  493. # [23:25] <tantek> we are in unexplored territory, so Anne and I are exploring.
  494. # [23:25] <glazou> tantek: trust me I can, this item was forwarded by W3C staff
  495. # [23:25] <annevk> glazou: having just skimmed through your email I really do not think I'm the fanatic here
  496. # [23:25] <tantek> glazou - I encourage you to tell that W3C staff person to write their own blog post about it
  497. # [23:25] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  498. # [23:25] <tantek> if they can stand by their words in public
  499. # [23:26] <tantek> I certainly did
  500. # [23:26] <annevk> I changed the style sheet and I think I'll go back to Zelda
  501. # [23:26] <glazou> tantek: a blog entry is not communication with the ACs
  502. # [23:26] <tantek> glazou: and private W3C staff communications are an anathema to open standards development.
  503. # [23:26] <glazou> that is NOT enough
  504. # [23:26] <glazou> since this document is in the WG charter
  505. # [23:26] <tantek> a public blog post better helps open standards development than a private email.
  506. # [23:26] <glazou> I will then ask it to be removed from the charter
  507. # [23:26] <tantek> glazou - the charter simply says what the CSS WG *may* work on
  508. # [23:27] <tantek> it doesn't have any jurisdiction on anything outside of CSS WG.
  509. # [23:27] <glazou> and then ACs vote on that also based on IPR
  510. # [23:28] <tantek> glazou, I'll send my explanation about to w3c-css-wg which you are welcome to forward to the W3C staff person
  511. # [23:28] <glazou> and I'll send link to this channel's log
  512. # [23:29] <glazou> thanks for the nice present
  513. # [23:29] * Joins: mkanat (~mkanat@216.239.45.130)
  514. # [23:30] <annevk> I'm not sure what you are getting upset about. I didn't even know this was in the CSS WG charter.
  515. # [23:30] <annevk> I only discussed this document and working on the document on the WHATWG list and asked someone for some space to host it.
  516. # [23:33] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@sge78-3-82-247-96-19.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: glazou)
  517. # [23:33] <krijn> Just checking here: http://twitter.com/krijnhoetmer/status/141281791314108416 wasn't supposed to be a secret, was it?
  518. # [23:34] <zewt> mental note: if I ever want to get lots of people to click a link, put "is this a secret?" next to the URL
  519. # [23:34] <krijn> Yeah, always works :)
  520. # [23:34] <annevk> krijn: dude only in #secrettreehouse
  521. # [23:34] <krijn> I'm banned there!
  522. # [23:35] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@ad009033.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  523. # [23:37] <tantek> glazou - I prefer discussions of document licensing are done in public forums.
  524. # [23:37] <tantek> hence my blogging about it.
  525. # [23:37] <tantek> I'll add that to my reply to your member-only w3c-css-wg email ;)
  526. # [23:38] * Joins: mccr8 (u4619@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hrsnjikdxkgokntt)
  527. # [23:44] * jacobolu_ is now known as jacobolus
  528. # [23:44] <tantek> posted: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011OctDec/0240.html
  529. # [23:44] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  530. # [23:45] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:64c0:c968:9e95:dc3b)
  531. # [23:58] <tantek> glazou - FWIW, I do think working with both CGs and more open licenses will help overall W3C draft/group efficiency, including in the CSSWG. There's no reason for GRRRRRs or advocating violence[1]. [1]https://twitter.com/glazou/status/141273032923688960
  532. # Session Close: Tue Nov 29 00:00:01 2011

The end :)