/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-12-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Dec 03 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <Hixie> any bash mavens know what i'm doing wrong here?
  4. # [00:00] <Hixie> if [ ( ! -s cldr.inc ) -o ( "`svn info -r HEAD .cldr-data | grep -i "Last Changed Rev"`" != "`svn info .cldr-data | grep -i "Last Changed Rev"`" ) ]; then
  5. # [00:00] <Hixie> i get "bash: syntax error near unexpected token `!'"
  6. # [00:01] <Hixie> seems to work fine (though inefficiently) if i reverse it and remove the ()s:
  7. # [00:01] <Hixie> if [ "`svn info -r HEAD .cldr-data | grep -i "Last Changed Rev"`" != "`svn info .cldr-data | grep -i "Last Changed Rev"`" -o ! -s cldr.inc ]; then
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  12. # [00:09] <gavinc> Best commit message of the day in python web app "[solon/feature/admin-tool] Fixing W3C errors in HTML."
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  16. # [00:13] <jgraham> Hixie: I believe what you're doing wrong is trying to write scripts in bash
  17. # [00:14] <Hixie> no argument from me there
  18. # [00:14] <Hixie> unfortunately hte bulk of this is just running other apps
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  20. # [00:19] <bga> zewt btw i guess opening donateware project 'accesable web' which is proxy servers that run requested site in phantomjs, generate links for js actions ala webtoolkit.eu and serve plain html to client is good solution
  21. # [00:20] <bga> same as opera mini
  22. # [00:20] <bga> may be bit different
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  47. # [01:25] <L04f3r> I found this quite amusing. Ars writes that IE6 market share "has grown, from 7.5 percent to 8.33" during november 2011, from here: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/12/internet-explorer-stops-its-slide-as-chrome-nears-firefox.ars
  48. # [01:25] <L04f3r> Could it be that we have just got another Asian country connected to the internet
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  77. # [02:56] <TabAtkins> L04f3r: It seems more likely that whatever detection their stats come from is broken, and some Asian browser suddenly started detecting as IE6.
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  79. # [02:58] <L04f3r> Well, IE6 countdown (http://www.ie6countdown.com/#chart) also reflects an increase of users worldwide,
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  85. # [03:23] <erlehmann> more like IE6 countup
  86. # [03:23] <erlehmann> hhehe
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  134. # [07:26] <dbaron> Hixie, did you mean https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15048 to be RESOLVED **LATER** ?
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  136. # [07:26] <Hixie> oops, no. sorry about that. fixed. or wontfixed, i guess. :-)
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  138. # [07:41] <dbaron> (Hooray for not disabling silly resolutions that come in the default install, or something.)
  139. # [07:47] <Hixie> actually i use LATER and REMIND quite a bit
  140. # [07:47] <Hixie> but that's another story :-)
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  142. # [07:52] <dbaron> you were probably the only user in bugzilla.mozilla.org too
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  171. # [10:57] <annevk> I sort of wonder if we should make "text" UTF-8-only too in XMLHttpRequest
  172. # [10:57] <annevk> send(string) is limited to UTF-8
  173. # [10:57] <annevk> receiving should be too
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  195. # [12:15] <Ms2ger> Someone backup cssom/cssomview at whatwg, please?
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  310. # [21:00] * Philip` wonders what the UA "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686) AppleWebKit/534.34 (KHTML, like Gecko) Qt/4.7.4 Safari/534.34" is
  311. # [21:00] <Philip`> It seems to be very common in some access logs I'm looking at, but surely it's not really Safari on Linux
  312. # [21:00] <Ms2ger> Konqi?
  313. # [21:01] <Philip`> (It's like 30% of all visitors to the site)
  314. # [21:03] <espadrine> or rekonq
  315. # [21:06] <Philip`> I thought they both added their names into the UA string
  316. # [21:06] <erlehmann> it really is just lying
  317. # [21:07] <erlehmann> say, what happens when someone uses a sane UA string?
  318. # [21:07] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  319. # [21:07] <Philip`> The web breaks
  320. # [21:08] <erlehmann> like Vendor/Version (Windowing Environment, Kernel)
  321. # [21:08] <erlehmann> what happens then?
  322. # [21:08] <erlehmann> yeah, but where?
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  324. # [21:09] <erlehmann> i have experienced more breakage with assuming HTTP HEAD works than with weird UA strings.
  325. # [21:10] <Philip`> You get sent content that's designed for the wrong browser, as far as I'm aware
  326. # [21:10] <Philip`> (You'd only notice when running scripts)
  327. # [21:10] <erlehmann> can you show me specific sites that do that?
  328. # [21:10] <Ms2ger> Google search didn't like "Gecko/2.0" as a UA string last time I tried
  329. # [21:11] <erlehmann> wat
  330. # [21:19] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: For Google Instant, or more generlaly?
  331. # [21:19] <Ms2ger> Instant, probably? I don't remember
  332. # [21:19] <Ms2ger> Maybe we got Opera's version :)
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  336. # [21:34] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: We get Instant, now.
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  339. # [21:45] <erlehmann> so, Ms2ger, why do even people at google do browser detection if they can do feature detection?
  340. # [21:46] <Ms2ger> Because those people are not as smart as you seem to think they are? :)
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  347. # [22:04] <zewt> Ms2ger: it's become pretty clear that google is a big company, and has its ... variety of employees, like any big company :)
  348. # [22:04] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  349. # [22:06] <zewt> (of course, there could be reasons for it, too--despite a lot of, uh, really questionable changes to google search lately, i still assume they're smart enough to put competent developers on *that* product)
  350. # [22:06] <zewt> (they're completely removed literal phrase searches, which is just unbelievable)
  351. # [22:07] <Hixie> there's also the matter that a developer who might be an expert at, say, UI design, might not be an expert at writing browser-agnostic JS
  352. # [22:08] <zewt> well, i'd hope that google, at least, would know the difference between a UI developer and a JS developer, and put the right people to the right tasks (at least for their more important products, like search)
  353. # [22:09] <zewt> the mysterious and utterly out of place "Change background image" on google's main front page makes me unsure, though. heh
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  356. # [22:11] * Philip` thought double-quotes still worked fine for literal searches
  357. # [22:11] <zewt> double-quotes are still fuzzed
  358. # [22:11] <zewt> you used to be able to say +"phrase" but they removed +
  359. # [22:11] <zewt> (another unbelievable change)
  360. # [22:11] <zewt> (they changed +foo to "foo", which means there's no equivalent to +"foo")
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  362. # [22:12] <Hixie> there's a "verbatim" mode now actually
  363. # [22:12] <zewt> i +do +a +lot +of +searches +like +this so "having" "to" "type" "like" "this" really sucks
  364. # [22:13] <zewt> Hixie: is there another way to do a literal +"phrase" search now?
  365. # [22:13] * Hixie points to what he just said
  366. # [22:14] <zewt> i have no idea what "verbatim" mode is, heh
  367. # [22:14] <Hixie> google it :-P
  368. # [22:14] <zewt> if i have to google google features to figure out what they are, that points to a problem in and of itself :P
  369. # [22:15] <zewt> eh that affects the whole search
  370. # [22:16] <zewt> anyway, food
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  376. # [22:32] <erlehmann> google is becoming a worse filter.
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  399. # Session Close: Sun Dec 04 00:00:00 2011

The end :)