/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-12-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 13 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] <jgraham> This isn't a prize you want to *win*
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  7. # [00:07] <Hixie> oh hey i didn't know about [ArrayClass]
  8. # [00:07] <Hixie> can i sprinkle that about?
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  15. # [00:16] <heycam> Hixie, feel free -- but you have to do the work of index getters and a length attribute yourself
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  22. # [00:35] <heycam> Hixie, the term "relevant namespace object" is gone now that modules have been removed
  23. # [00:35] <Hixie> heycam: well i'm doing that work already anyway
  24. # [00:36] <Hixie> heycam: can you file a bug on me to fix the use of the term?
  25. # [00:36] <heycam> ok
  26. # [00:36] <Hixie> thanks
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  68. # [02:00] <erlehmann> is there a good way to discourage someone to invent a new scheme for a use case that can be appropriately handled by data URIs?
  69. # [02:01] <zewt> i suggest http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00tMsaevNhAPcl/Rubber-Mallet-Wood-Hande-1lb-TSH0902-.jpg
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  112. # [03:09] <abarth> Hixie: do you have a couple minutes for an HTML parser question?
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  116. # [03:20] <erlehmann> abarth, JUST ASK
  117. # [03:20] <abarth> yeah?
  118. # [03:20] <abarth> i'm writing it up in an email to whatwg
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  120. # [03:24] <erlehmann> abarth, YOU ARE A VERY CLEVER MAN
  121. # [03:24] <abarth> :)
  122. # [03:24] <zewt> caffeine
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  157. # [05:22] <Hixie> abarth: yeah, that's on my radar
  158. # [05:22] <Hixie> abarth: see if you can get henri to comment :-)
  159. # [05:22] <abarth> Hixie: thanks
  160. # [05:23] <abarth> what's the point of going through the HTML states for the text integration points?
  161. # [05:23] <abarth> to get the formatting elements reconstructed?
  162. # [05:25] <Hixie> off the top of my head i can't recall, but probably
  163. # [05:25] <Hixie> also to enter things like select mode for <select>s in cells, etc
  164. # [05:25] <abarth> for the time being, i'm probably going to implement what flangagan suggests in http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2011-October/033542.html
  165. # [05:26] <abarth> i'm trying to update the webkit impl to match the changes to the spec that happened after we did the first iteration
  166. # [05:26] <abarth> and this would be a regression
  167. # [05:26] <Hixie> i can't tell off the top of my head if that's the right thing, but i can try to prioritise it tomorrow if you like
  168. # [05:26] <abarth> if that's not too much trouble, it would be helpful
  169. # [05:27] <abarth> i'd rather fix it the right way :)
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  171. # [05:27] <Hixie> abarth: yeah
  172. # [05:27] <Hixie> abarth: can you work out what gecko does?
  173. # [05:27] <abarth> i'll investigate and email the list if I figure it out
  174. # [05:27] <Hixie> abarth: (i haven't tried, but that info would be useful. i'll try to reverse-engineer it if neither you nor hsivonen comment before i get to it)
  175. # [05:27] <Hixie> cool
  176. # [05:28] <abarth> wow, they're still auto generating their parser from java
  177. # [05:35] <abarth> so, the control flow in the moz parser is really far from the spec
  178. # [05:35] <abarth> they have a bunch of branches all over the place for inforiegncontent
  179. # [05:35] <abarth> it looks like they call flushCharacters unconditionally
  180. # [05:35] <Hixie> i thought the spec had been changed specifially to be more like gecko :-)
  181. # [05:35] <Hixie> they might have the branches backwards from what the spec does, but i imagine the basic idea is the same
  182. # [05:36] <Hixie> or rather, inside out
  183. # [05:36] <Hixie> i.e. instead of if (foo) { switch } else { switch }, have switch { case: if (foo) else; case: if (foo) else; }
  184. # [05:36] <abarth> http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/parser/html/javasrc/TreeBuilder.java#3161
  185. # [05:37] <abarth> as an example
  186. # [05:37] <abarth> the if (isInForeign()) comes after the flushCharacters call
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  188. # [05:38] <abarth> or, consider the passage that starts http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/parser/html/javasrc/TreeBuilder.java#1186
  189. # [05:38] <abarth> the if (!isInForeignButNotHtmlIntegrationPoint()) has been pushed into the states
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  191. # [05:42] <abarth> yeah, so we just need to flush right away
  192. # [05:42] <abarth> rather than holding onto the pending characters until we get the </table>
  193. # [05:42] <abarth> let me try in code and then I'll send some spec text to the list
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  195. # [05:44] <Hixie> abarth: this would be a generic change, not just for foreign content?
  196. # [05:45] <abarth> oh, i mean just for foreign content
  197. # [05:45] <abarth> basically, http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html#parsing-main-inforeign
  198. # [05:45] <abarth> would check whether we're in the table text mode
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  200. # [05:45] <abarth> and processing a non-character token
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  202. # [05:46] <abarth> and then invoke the "anything else" clause of http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html#parsing-main-intabletext
  203. # [05:46] <abarth> i guess an easier way
  204. # [05:47] <abarth> would be to force the HTML path when in the "in table text"
  205. # [05:47] <abarth> but have the "reprocess the token" in http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html#parsing-main-intabletext
  206. # [05:47] <abarth> check whether it should go down the foreign content path
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  208. # [05:47] <Hixie> abarth: it scares me to hardcode the table mode specifically there
  209. # [05:47] <Hixie> abarth: what about cell mode? select mode? etc
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  211. # [05:47] <abarth> hum...
  212. # [05:48] <Hixie> abarth: i feel a more generic solution would be something i'd feel more confident was solid
  213. # [05:48] <Hixie> abarth: this is just a gut feeling though
  214. # [05:48] <Hixie> abarth: i'll have to look closer tomorrow
  215. # [05:49] <abarth> i guess the real strangeness is that we're in the "in table" model when the current node isn't a <table>
  216. # [05:49] <abarth> normally we'd get moved to another insertion mode
  217. # [05:49] <abarth> rather than staying in the table mode
  218. # [05:50] <Hixie> right; like i said in one of the mails in the earlier thread about this, this is a result of moving foreign content out of being a node
  219. # [05:50] <Hixie> er
  220. # [05:50] <Hixie> mode
  221. # [05:50] <Hixie> which was hsivonen's idea
  222. # [05:50] <Hixie> hence wanting his input :-)
  223. # [05:50] <abarth> yes, which is why i'm running into this problem in my patch that deletes the "in foreign content" mode :)
  224. # [05:53] <Hixie> indeed
  225. # [05:53] <Hixie> i think the change makes sense in general
  226. # [05:53] <Hixie> but this was an unexpected sideeffect and i'm worried there are others i've missed too
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  247. # [08:10] <zcorpan> so the next XSS thing will be injecting <intent> tags
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  257. # [08:37] <webben> may I please have an account on the WHATWG wiki? (creating new accounts is restricted to administrators)
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  271. # [09:26] <hsivonen> I wonder if Glenn Adams is aware of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade#Trademark
  272. # [09:32] <hsivonen> webben: what user id and email would you like to use?
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  276. # [09:48] <abarth> hsivonen: any thoughts on that parsing issue?
  277. # [09:49] <abarth> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2011-December/034155.html
  278. # [09:49] <abarth> hsivonen: i need to go to sleep now, but any insight you can provide on the list would be appriciated
  279. # [09:49] <abarth> thx
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  285. # [09:58] <webben> hsivonen: benjaminhawkeslewis , bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com - please
  286. # [09:58] <webben> hsivonen: oh - BenjaminHawkesLewis - sorry
  287. # [09:59] <webben> oh wait you can have spaces can't yo
  288. # [09:59] <webben> if hyphens are allowed Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis otherwise just BenjaminHawkesLewis
  289. # [09:59] * webben is difficult.
  290. # [10:04] <hsivonen> webben: mediawiki claims to have sent you email
  291. # [10:05] <hsivonen> webben: the user id is BenjaminHawkesLewis
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  315. # [10:37] <annevk> david_carlisle: there are certainly differences (that's the whole reason for this spec)
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  317. # [10:38] <annevk> zewt: "correct" has never been defined for encodings, and since this is about legacy, it makes more sense to match the majority of implementations I think
  318. # [10:38] <annevk> ms2ger: I haven't, I probably should
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  327. # [10:58] <hsivonen> hmm. http://blogs.adobe.com/jd/ has been quiet lately
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  330. # [11:02] <david_carlisle> annevk: on differences, Guessed as much:-) there are other things in your spec unique to that (such as the various way implementations alias) but it would be good I think in a final version to be able to highlight any differences from the unicode site.. 'twould be easier for the reader to diff them if your tables were in an easier to process form such as XML :-)
  331. # [11:03] <annevk> I was planning on exposing at least JSON mapping for all the single-octet encodings
  332. # [11:03] <annevk> also useful for tests
  333. # [11:04] <david_carlisle> annevk: thanks
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  342. # [11:20] <annevk> Ms2ger: just generated the tables again, does look cleaner now
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  353. # [12:06] <webben> hsivonen: That works. Cheers :)
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  363. # [12:43] <annevk> Ms2ger: updated spec
  364. # [12:43] <annevk> seems Opera fixed a few things too
  365. # [12:44] <annevk> this encoding alignment might actually work :)
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  369. # [13:00] <annevk> Ms2ger: btw, you did not fix it for all encodings
  370. # [13:00] <annevk> Ms2ger: e.g. "macintosh" still has it
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  372. # [13:09] <annevk> Ms2ger: nevermind
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  378. # [13:23] <Ms3ger> annevk: good, I was confused why my change to the macintosh decoder didn't work out :)
  379. # [13:30] <hsivonen> where is encoding name comparison specced these days?
  380. # [13:30] <hsivonen> reality-based comparison, that is
  381. # [13:34] <annevk> that is still HTML5
  382. # [13:34] <annevk> it's trim leading and trailing whitespace, ASCII case-insensitive compare
  383. # [13:34] <annevk> iirc
  384. # [13:34] <annevk> it will become part of the Encoding Standard
  385. # [13:35] <annevk> Ms3ger: Opera apparently tackled a similar issue for the windows-* encodings which has not yet made it into a release
  386. # [13:35] <annevk> Ms3ger: you might want to do the same
  387. # [13:36] <annevk> Ms3ger: see e.g. http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#windows-1255
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  389. # [13:40] <annevk> http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/8-bit-labels#ibm864 is kind of interesting
  390. # [13:40] <annevk> Firefox and IE versus WebKit and Chrome
  391. # [13:40] <annevk> seems like something WebKit did wrong
  392. # [13:40] <annevk> Opera has not implemented that one at all...
  393. # [13:45] <Ms3ger> annevk: oh, Opera changed those already? I'll have a look
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  400. # [13:50] <annevk> Ms3ger: well, for the next public release
  401. # [13:50] <Ms3ger> Yeah
  402. # [14:01] <Ms3ger> Hmm, it doesn't seem terribly clear in DOM4 that you need to call EventListener.handleEvent
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  405. # [14:09] <Ms3ger> Looks like I'll have to learn more about this file format than I'd like...
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  408. # [14:13] <annevk> Ms3ger: not changing octet 25 in ibm864 would also be good
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  413. # [14:25] <annevk> why is ibm864 such a mess?
  414. # [14:25] <annevk> meh, I'll just make some choices and let people complain
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  416. # [14:38] <woef> If I want to use the itemscope in xhtml5 (or whatever I should call it), do I write itemscope="itemscope" ?
  417. # [14:38] <woef> ("xml serialization of html5" I believe)
  418. # [14:39] <gsnedders> woef: yes
  419. # [14:39] <gsnedders> woef: either that or itemscope=""
  420. # [14:39] <woef> okay, cool :)
  421. # [14:40] <woef> Is there a place where I can verify how Google/others will read this data (to verify if I implemented it well?)
  422. # [14:42] <annevk> validator.nu ?
  423. # [14:47] <annevk> so JSON can be just be a [] literal right?
  424. # [14:49] <woef> http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets
  425. # [14:49] <woef> No idea if validator.nu does something similar.
  426. # [14:51] <gsnedders> annevk: yes
  427. # [14:52] <gsnedders> annevk: JSON can be an object literal or an array literal
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  430. # [15:07] <bga> gsnedders can you recomend me sources of hight order stuff? Programming langs, modern math. Some ppl in twitter, blogs etc
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  432. # [15:09] <gsnedders> bga: What are you actually looking for?
  433. # [15:10] <smaug____> heycam|away: what should happen if non-object is passed as dictionary
  434. # [15:10] <smaug____> say new Event("foo", 1)
  435. # [15:12] <bga> gsnedders new papers, researches
  436. # [15:12] <gsnedders> bga: For that sort of stuff, I'm the wrong person to ask.
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  438. # [15:12] <bga> tired to grep forums to find something new
  439. # [15:12] <bga> heh
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  442. # [15:27] <annevk> david_carlisle: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/single-octet-encodings.json
  443. # [15:27] <annevk> david_carlisle: it's also linked from the specification
  444. # [15:28] <annevk> david_carlisle: from now I'll generate new tables from that source to make sure they stay in sync
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  446. # [15:28] <annevk> not entirely sure I want to automate the entire specification, does not seem worth it
  447. # [15:28] <annevk> and it will not work nicely when non single-octet encodings are added to the list of encodings
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  450. # [15:33] <david_carlisle> annevk: thanks
  451. # [15:34] <david_carlisle> can't you just have a bigger array for the two byte encodings? or do you mean you'd want some kind of sparse format
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  454. # [15:37] <annevk> david_carlisle: they're not two byte, they're multi
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  457. # [15:43] <david_carlisle> annevk: yes sure but they can all be thought of as a mapping from some finite range of integers to a the codepoint range so can all be represented by an array of integers as you have so far, can;t they? (admittedly that doesn't capture how the bytes represent the encoding number but) so for example utf-8 would just be an idenity as the numeric part is an identity map, the actual utf-8 bit...
  458. # [15:43] <david_carlisle> ...layout wouldn't fit the layout in your current json, perhaps that's what you meant originally
  459. # [15:46] <hsivonen> woef: Validator.nu doesn't check for suitability for consumption by Google
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  464. # [15:56] <annevk> david_carlisle: I think some of the multi octet encodings have state
  465. # [15:56] <annevk> david_carlisle: also not sure error handling works for them, e.g. for UTF-8
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  467. # [15:56] <annevk> david_carlisle: but I need to look at them more closely basically
  468. # [15:56] <annevk> david_carlisle: for now I'm happy with just doing the single-octet stuff
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  474. # [16:16] <annevk> where did Ms2ger go?
  475. # [16:16] <annevk> or Ms3ger for that matter
  476. # [16:17] <jgraham> Maybe he is metamorphosing into Ms4ger
  477. # [16:17] <jgraham> On the internet, no one knows you're a butterfly
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  499. # [17:07] <zewt> annevk: well, there's often no majority (gecko+presto vs. trident+webkit), it's existing content that matters, of course ... anyway, i'm guessing at least the windows-* discrepencies should be easy to get fixed
  500. # [17:08] <zewt> seems pretty obvious to treat IE as the authority on those mappings
  501. # [17:10] <annevk> if the four others did the same I opted for following them instead
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  505. # [17:11] <zewt> smaug____: new Event("foo", 1) throws TypeError, step 1 of http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#es-dictionary
  506. # [17:11] <smaug____> yup
  507. # [17:11] <smaug____> just adding that to the implementation
  508. # [17:12] <annevk> zewt: I did favor trident/webkit over presto/gecko; same for trident/gecko
  509. # [17:12] <annevk> zewt: and WebKit is not quite the same when it comes to this
  510. # [17:12] <annevk> so I have both Chromium and WebKit
  511. # [17:12] <zewt> fun stuff
  512. # [17:13] <zewt> i wonder if there really isn't much content on "arabic" on those codepoints trident assigns mappings to
  513. # [17:14] <annevk> for multi-octet encodings it seems I should define algorithms for encode and decode
  514. # [17:14] <annevk> and then cleverly test them
  515. # [17:15] <zewt> (why do people randomly like to call bytes "octets"? heh)
  516. # [17:15] <zewt> they're multibyte encodings, damn it :P
  517. # [17:15] <annevk> zewt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octet_(computing)
  518. # [17:15] <zewt> i know what the word means; in the real world we call them bytes
  519. # [17:15] <hober> zewt: because on older architectures byte length differed
  520. # [17:15] <zewt> hober: doesn't matter in 2011 (or 2001)
  521. # [17:16] <annevk> zewt: see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#notes for general rules I used
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  523. # [17:16] <annevk> zewt: it might be worth going with byte and defining that as eight bits
  524. # [17:16] <annevk> zewt: email WHATWG?
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  527. # [17:17] <zewt> annevk: i'm guessing data will be wanted about the contentious mappings (if lots of pages are using those trident arabic mappings, that's probably what should be used, even if it's currently the minority...)
  528. # [17:18] <zewt> as long as there's data to back it, i'd be surprised if there was much pushback from browsers for adding them
  529. # [17:18] <annevk> yeah
  530. # [17:18] <gsnedders> zewt: If you're dealing with mainframes it does sometimes still matter.
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  533. # [17:20] <annevk> zewt: that's one of the things mentioned
  534. # [17:20] <zewt> gsnedders: (i leave that to that field to translate terminology; the rest of the world has moved on)
  535. # [17:22] <zewt> mapping ascii to windows-1252 makes me sad inside
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  554. # [18:06] <gsnedders> WTF? Thunderbird has started using Chrome for https links, though nowhere is Chrome set as the default.
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  558. # [18:08] <jgraham> Google's marketing has become so agrressive that they now have Mozilla promoting them? :p
  559. # [18:08] <martndemus> Thunderbird knows whats best =D
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  617. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> Hm. I'm not sure what mailing list to talk about this on.
  618. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> So, I'm in a discussion with our spreadsheet team.
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  621. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> Spreadsheets are, in essence, a giant <table>. This is, predictably, absolutely shit for performance. They're trying to find ways around it, to the point of considering implementing all their rendering in WebGL instead.
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  623. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> I'd like to discuss ways to fix this in HTML/CSS/JS. Possibilities include: a "just trust me" table layout mode that uses less constraints (allows overflow, etc.) to bring performance back down from quadratic+; a "virtual table" object that draws a simplistic rendering of empty cells and calls you to fill them in with real DOM when users stop scrolling.
  624. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> Possibly other ideas.
  625. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> So, where to bring this up?
  626. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> I'm thinking whatwg might be the best place.
  627. # [19:46] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: SVG might work decently — but Fx doesn't support selection of SVG, does it?
  628. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: I don't know if SVG would work. If we support the same spreadsheet size as Excel, that's 2^8 columns and 2^16 rows.
  629. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Excel can do fast scrolling on that because it just cheats for the most part until you stop scrollilng.
  630. # [19:47] <TabAtkins> But 2^24 DOM nodes will kill a browser regardless of whether it's HTML or SVG, I think.
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  633. # [19:48] <Ms2ger> table-layout: fixed?
  634. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> I'm pretty sure table-layout:fixed isn't "fixed" enough.
  635. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> You still need to do layout to determine the height of rows, for example.
  636. # [19:49] <Ms2ger> I guess we need table-layout: fixedforrealthistime
  637. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> table-layout:static
  638. # [19:50] <Ms2ger> But you only get to add that if you spec normal tables first :)
  639. # [19:50] <TabAtkins> I REFUSE
  640. # [19:50] <Ms2ger> Then I REFUSE to implement it
  641. # [19:51] <Ms2ger> Which shouldn't bother you, I wouldn't implement it anyway
  642. # [19:51] <gsnedders> Children, no fighting.
  643. # [19:51] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, remind me, are you younger or older than me? :)
  644. # [19:51] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: I believe I am still the youngest active person in this channel.
  645. # [19:51] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: (19)
  646. # [19:52] <Ms2ger> Good
  647. # [19:52] <Ms2ger> So be quiet when adults talk ;)
  648. # [19:52] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Pfff.
  649. # [19:52] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: I've been an adult since I was 16!
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  651. # [19:53] <Ms2ger> Scot?
  652. # [19:53] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Yup.
  653. # [19:53] <gsnedders> (I then regressed and became a child for a while again while in Sweden)
  654. # [19:53] <Ms2ger> Heh
  655. # [19:54] <gsnedders> It was quite amusing going from an adult to being a child. Don't get to do that often. :)
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  658. # [20:05] <Ms2ger> annevk5, why would not changing octet 25 in ibm864 be good?
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  668. # [20:38] <zewt> changing the ASCII overlap is never good
  669. # [20:42] <Ms2ger> Firefox is outnumbered 3-to-1
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  673. # [20:54] <zewt> all browsers are outnumbered, they're all doing different things
  674. # [20:55] * jcranmer wonders why he remains in this channel
  675. # [20:55] <zewt> are you asking us?
  676. # [20:56] <gsnedders> jcranmer: Because we're cool?
  677. # [20:56] <zewt> Ms2ger: if IE is handling the ASCII range for that encoding sanely, then I'd hope other browsers could align at least for those
  678. # [20:56] <jcranmer> I only passively follow HTML development, and even that is beginning to wear thin
  679. # [20:56] * jcranmer settles for "inertia"
  680. # [20:56] * Ms2ger whacks jcranmer
  681. # [20:57] <zewt> (i don't really care about the others for such an obscure encoding, but having as close to everything as possible align for ASCII is big)
  682. # [20:57] <Ms2ger> zewt, did you look at the data?
  683. # [20:57] <jcranmer> let's go to EBCIDIC?
  684. # [20:58] <zewt> i've only looked at the tables
  685. # [20:58] <Ms2ger> http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/8-bit-labels#ibm864
  686. # [20:58] <Ms2ger> So what would you recommend for 0x25?
  687. # [20:59] <zewt> according to http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/encoding/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#ibm864, trident maps [0,7f] to identity for that encoding
  688. # [20:59] <zewt> which is what all mbcs and 8bit encodings should do, so that's what I'd recommend
  689. # [20:59] * zewt squints at funkytable
  690. # [21:00] <zewt> looks like it (unsurprisingly) says the same thing
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  692. # [21:04] <zewt> based on those tables, it should be possible to align all of these encodings that way
  693. # [21:04] <zewt> assuming other browsers don't dig in their heels for some obscure reason
  694. # [21:04] <zewt> (and ignoring multibyte encodings for now, of course)
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  697. # [21:10] <zewt> how could anyone ever use 864 in Firefox, with it remapping %?
  698. # [21:10] * hoodow_ is now known as hoodow
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  701. # [21:11] <zewt> that's well into crazyland
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  706. # [21:19] <karega|aniasis> does anyone know any good design examples of horizontal accordions
  707. # [21:20] <Ms2ger> Are there any?
  708. # [21:22] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  709. # [21:22] <karlcow> yeah a few karega|aniasis http://www.fallonemusic.com/images/Hohner_accordeons_2_XL.jpg
  710. # [21:23] <karlcow> also http://www.skripta-paris.com/810-9621-large/japanese-album-accordion-moleskine-pocket-a6.jpg
  711. # [21:23] <karega|aniasis> accordions for web content
  712. # [21:24] <erlehmann> are those not http?
  713. # [21:24] <karega|aniasis> yes, but I mean accordions for web based content layout
  714. # [21:25] <karega|aniasis> not the instrument
  715. # [21:25] <karlcow> erlehmann: those are http pipes(lining) ;)
  716. # [21:25] <karega|aniasis> no links to instruments
  717. # [21:25] <erlehmann> a web accordion seems like a weird instrument
  718. # [21:25] <karlcow> karega|aniasis: yes we are being saccarstic :)
  719. # [21:26] <karega|aniasis> it does, and that's why I'm not talking referring to it.
  720. # [21:26] <karlcow> karega|aniasis: I have no answer more than would you get on DuckDuckGo
  721. # [21:26] <karega|aniasis> karlcow, yes I know and I am going along with your sarcasm.
  722. # [21:26] <karlcow> karega|aniasis: you would have better chances I guess in #html5
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  725. # [21:32] <bga> too many questions about webkit's console.log
  726. # [21:32] <bga> plz do deep copy
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  759. # [22:42] <Hixie> TabAtkins: yt?
  760. # [22:42] <Hixie> TabAtkins: can you take a look at http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/help-whatwg.org/2011-December/000966.html ?
  761. # [22:42] <jgraham> Disadvantages of using Google as a calculator: inch to cm conversions lead to lots of penis-related search results
  762. # [22:43] <jgraham> In other news, bein able to do mental arithmetic is still good
  763. # [22:43] <Hixie> (or anyone else who is up to date on table model rendering rules)
  764. # [22:43] <gsnedders> jgraham: multiplying by 2.54 have that affect as well?
  765. # [22:43] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  766. # [22:44] <zewt> then you have to remember 2.54 :)
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  768. # [22:45] <jgraham> Hixie: (I don't know what the spec says but the behaviour he wants seems very magical)
  769. # [22:45] <Hixie> well my real question is whether he should file the bug on gecko or webkit
  770. # [22:46] <jgraham> In particular http://btrem.com/tests/table1 seems like it much be the wrong expectation
  771. # [22:46] <jgraham> *must
  772. # [22:47] <jgraham> The other one I don't know. And I would give even odds that CSS doesn't know either :)
  773. # [22:47] <Ms2ger> gtalbot would probably be able to say something about those tests
  774. # [22:48] <jgraham> Or dbaron
  775. # [22:48] * Ms2ger curses annevk5
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  779. # [23:02] <Hixie> hsivonen: ping
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  781. # [23:04] <jgraham> Pretty sure that if you look at the distribution of when hsivonen is in the channel the probability he is around is tiny. Unless he is abroad or something.
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  787. # [23:08] <Hixie> jgraham: always worth a try
  788. # [23:09] <Hixie> i guess i'll just have to work out this parser thing myself :-P
  789. # [23:10] <gsnedders> Hixie: You wrote it! :P
  790. # [23:10] <Hixie> yeah but that was months ago
  791. # [23:10] <Hixie> i've offloaded all my knowledge to off-site storage
  792. # [23:10] <Hixie> (the spec)
  793. # [23:11] <Hixie> any html5lib people here?
  794. # [23:12] <gsnedders> Myself and jgraham?
  795. # [23:12] <gsnedders> (Though certainly my knowledge of the parser isn't as great as it was a year ago…)
  796. # [23:13] <gsnedders> But jgraham's should be, if he's been doing his work properly. :P
  797. # [23:13] <Hixie> do you know if it's up to date with the spec?
  798. # [23:13] <Hixie> in particular the foreign content stuff
  799. # [23:15] <gsnedders> Not for any changes in the past six months
  800. # [23:16] <Hixie> k
  801. # [23:17] <TabAtkins> Hixie: His "test1" (using the separated border model) is wrong. There is no cell in the lower-right corner, so there's nothing for CSS to target and apply a border to.
  802. # [23:18] <TabAtkins> In the "test2" (using the collapsed border model, and applying border to <tr>), it's a WebKit bug.
  803. # [23:18] <TabAtkins> Which I believe is already filed.
  804. # [23:18] <gsnedders> Yeah, that's an ancient bug/
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  806. # [23:18] <Hixie> TabAtkins: k. i'll reply to the mail, unless you'd like to
  807. # [23:18] <Hixie> TabAtkins: (and thanks)
  808. # [23:18] <TabAtkins> I'm not subscribed to that list, so go ahead.
  809. # [23:18] <Hixie> k
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  814. # [23:23] <astearns> TabAtkins: then what does "the end of that row should be padded with empty cells" mean for his test1?
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  818. # [23:25] <TabAtkins> It doesn't mean anything, because HTML4 has no conformance criteria in it.
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  820. # [23:27] <Ms2ger> Sure does
  821. # [23:27] <Ms2ger> It requires quote marks for q
  822. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> Yup.
  823. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> That rounds to zero.
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  826. # [23:33] <Ms2ger> annevk5, you'll need to help me reverse engineer our file format for encodings if you want me to fix anything in Gecko :)
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  829. # [23:40] <Hixie> ok how the heck do you escape a ! in a ""-quoted string in bash
  830. # [23:40] <Hixie> \! turns into a literal backslash-bang
  831. # [23:41] <zewt> i usually just give up and use '
  832. # [23:41] <Hixie> me too
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  834. # [23:42] <Hixie> but sometimes i want inner single quotes
  835. # [23:42] <zewt> "a"'!'"b"
  836. # [23:42] <jgraham> I really hate bash
  837. # [23:42] <jgraham> That is all
  838. # [23:42] <zewt> (more important when you want expansions)
  839. # [23:42] <Hixie> zewt: oh you can do that? interesting
  840. # [23:42] <Hixie> funky
  841. # [23:42] <Hixie> zewt: thanks!
  842. # [23:43] <zewt> a rare universal among programmers; everyone hates bash, and uses it anyway
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  844. # [23:44] <Hixie> i don't hate bash
  845. # [23:44] <zewt> you should
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  849. # [23:53] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  850. # [23:55] <heycam> smaug____, a TypeError is thrown if the value passed in isn't an object: http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#es-dictionary
  851. # [23:55] <heycam> smaug____, (oh I see zewt answered for you)
  852. # [23:55] <heycam> (I process my scrollback as I scroll!)
  853. # [23:55] <zewt> (since I asked the same thing yesterday or so :)
  854. # [23:56] <heycam> TabAtkins, you're right that Firefox doesn't support selection of SVG text; being worked on though https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=655877
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  857. # Session Close: Wed Dec 14 00:00:00 2011

The end :)