/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2011-12-27 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 27 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:03] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-118-201.dynamic.hinet.net)
  4. # [00:12] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  5. # [00:15] * Joins: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl)
  6. # [00:22] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@89-178-34-156.broadband.corbina.ru) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/)
  7. # [00:35] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  8. # [00:43] * Quits: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  9. # [00:50] * Quits: Morphous_ (jan@f048098072.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  10. # [00:54] * Quits: andyg (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Quit: andyg)
  11. # [00:58] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@50-47-182-211.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
  12. # [00:59] <Yuhong> Trivia: You can set contentEditable in IE8 and later's Developer Tools.
  13. # [00:59] <Yuhong> I am using that to play around.
  14. # [01:02] * Quits: Yuhong (~chatzilla@50-47-182-211.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net) (Client Quit)
  15. # [01:05] * Joins: Morphous_ (jan@f049167171.adsl.alicedsl.de)
  16. # [01:08] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@p54AE0E98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  17. # [01:21] * Joins: andyg (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au)
  18. # [01:23] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@adsl-178-78-99-119.karoo.kcom.com) (Quit: updating client)
  19. # [01:23] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@adsl-178-78-99-119.karoo.kcom.com)
  20. # [01:44] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@125.25.34.172.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  21. # [01:50] * Joins: yuuki (~kobayashi@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  22. # [01:51] <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/XGR-htmlspeech-20111206/ is actually a really interesting document
  23. # [01:52] <smaug____> MikeSmith: comments welcome :)
  24. # [01:52] <MikeSmith> smaug____: you participated in that XG?
  25. # [01:53] <smaug____> yup
  26. # [01:53] <MikeSmith> oh cool
  27. # [01:53] <MikeSmith> I see your name in the editors list
  28. # [01:59] <MikeSmith> smaug____: the intro at http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/htmlspeech/XGR-htmlspeech-20111206/#introduction is the clearest high-level overview as far as explaining to Web-app developers what the proposed features would enable
  29. # [02:00] <MikeSmith> I think I'll point people to that part to read first
  30. # [02:00] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
  31. # [02:00] * Joins: andyg_ (~andyg@geekscape.org)
  32. # [02:01] <smaug____> yeah
  33. # [02:01] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@125.25.39.26.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
  34. # [02:02] <smaug____> Google wants to do a smaller API first
  35. # [02:02] <smaug____> probably in WebApps WG if possible
  36. # [02:03] <smaug____> and I agree, smaller API first would be good
  37. # [02:03] <smaug____> implementing everything from the XG report is a huge task
  38. # [02:03] * Quits: andyg (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  39. # [02:03] * andyg_ is now known as andyg
  40. # [02:04] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@125.25.34.172.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  41. # [02:07] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p54AE0E98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  42. # [02:21] * Joins: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  43. # [02:21] <MikeSmith> smaug____: yeah, it's pretty ambitious
  44. # [02:21] <MikeSmith> I would like to see a proposal for that smaller API
  45. # [02:23] * Joins: andyg_ (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au)
  46. # [02:24] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  47. # [02:26] * Quits: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  48. # [02:26] * Quits: Hixie (~ianh@trivini.no) (Quit: leaving)
  49. # [02:26] * Quits: andyg (~andyg@geekscape.org) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  50. # [02:26] * andyg_ is now known as andyg
  51. # [02:26] * Joins: Hixie (~ianh@trivini.no)
  52. # [02:30] * Quits: Hixie (~ianh@trivini.no) (Client Quit)
  53. # [02:33] * Joins: Hixie (~ianh@trivini.no)
  54. # [02:35] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: hij1nx)
  55. # [02:40] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@cs181151161.pp.htv.fi) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  56. # [02:43] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-97-231.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
  57. # [02:45] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-086-124.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  58. # [02:55] * Joins: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e)
  59. # [02:55] * Joins: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  60. # [02:56] * Joins: andyg_ (~andyg@geekscape.org)
  61. # [02:58] * Joins: andyg__ (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au)
  62. # [02:59] * Quits: andyg (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  63. # [02:59] * andyg__ is now known as andyg
  64. # [02:59] * Quits: wookiehangover (~wookiehan@c-67-161-138-118.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  65. # [03:00] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-170-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  66. # [03:00] * Quits: andyg_ (~andyg@geekscape.org) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  67. # [03:02] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  68. # [03:09] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-170-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  69. # [03:10] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@524BA444.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
  70. # [03:17] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-124-121-253-245.revip2.asianet.co.th)
  71. # [03:18] * Joins: wookiehangover (~wookiehan@c-67-161-138-118.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  72. # [03:19] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  73. # [03:25] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYKCXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  74. # [03:38] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB1BD7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  75. # [03:38] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB18CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  76. # [03:40] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:f455:b9b2:18:738d) (Quit: tomasf)
  77. # [03:45] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYKCXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  78. # [03:55] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  79. # [04:24] * Quits: tndH (~Rob@adsl-178-78-99-119.karoo.kcom.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  80. # [04:25] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@112-68-245-90f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  81. # [04:31] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  82. # [04:31] * Quits: beowulf (u116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf) (Remote host closed the connection)
  83. # [04:31] * Quits: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vlxzmmcpjjujfjzq) (Remote host closed the connection)
  84. # [04:31] * Quits: bobylito (u3929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wrramxbrjfsoccwo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  85. # [04:31] * Quits: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ssweugphrcckrbwm) (Remote host closed the connection)
  86. # [04:31] * Quits: boblet (u1921@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nsdkvejjekchoddm) (Remote host closed the connection)
  87. # [04:31] * Quits: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tbdipljadfhekvmf) (Remote host closed the connection)
  88. # [04:31] * Quits: timeless (u4015@firefox/developer/timeless) (Remote host closed the connection)
  89. # [04:31] * Quits: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-msfupayaibftsgch) (Remote host closed the connection)
  90. # [04:31] * Quits: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncailenopswgrlti) (Remote host closed the connection)
  91. # [04:31] * Quits: benschwarz (u2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-acuvgsvjppekdwmx) (Remote host closed the connection)
  92. # [04:31] * Quits: scheib (u4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pznotveduiqabzmd) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  93. # [04:31] * Quits: dglazkov (u4270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ybmldwvdjdpggtdk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  94. # [04:31] * Quits: romainhuet (u2533@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jjhcpwmbzubmqbjx) (Remote host closed the connection)
  95. # [04:31] * Quits: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bbgxlqvuqoeujckx) (Remote host closed the connection)
  96. # [04:31] * Quits: wycats (u79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xswajmptublbhquu) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  97. # [04:31] * Quits: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjbsfzzirnhgaufq) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  98. # [04:35] * Joins: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjjcmpfyrqdnldgl)
  99. # [04:35] * Joins: benschwarz (u2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ferfyokhbkobmtfd)
  100. # [04:36] * Joins: timeless (u4015@firefox/developer/timeless)
  101. # [04:36] * Joins: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvbufppgkttphbhp)
  102. # [04:38] * Joins: boblet (u1921@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zrkwagfpittfnngf)
  103. # [04:39] * Joins: dglazkov (u4270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iggzwjdldptderlp)
  104. # [04:42] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  105. # [04:42] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  106. # [04:43] * Joins: romainhuet (u2533@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bstpfflphkjnyege)
  107. # [04:43] * Joins: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lpthybqlwrfhmuyq)
  108. # [04:52] * Joins: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ireyzddevsaratmp)
  109. # [04:57] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: Leaving)
  110. # [05:02] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@112-68-245-90f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  111. # [05:10] * Joins: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bivhlyklkhymnmrd)
  112. # [05:11] * Joins: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iroynriwstwdyakr)
  113. # [05:14] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-140-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  114. # [05:14] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  115. # [05:21] * Joins: scheib (u4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvkenjfwabnvvsdu)
  116. # [05:38] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-206f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  117. # [05:42] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com)
  118. # [05:47] * Joins: bobylito (u3929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnuwznzkxlhsmqdy)
  119. # [05:50] * Joins: jeremyselier_ (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-numnawtxvskxustw)
  120. # [05:52] * Joins: matijsb_ (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-otcqmarlciydyszy)
  121. # [05:52] * Quits: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iroynriwstwdyakr) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  122. # [05:52] * Quits: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bivhlyklkhymnmrd) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  123. # [05:52] * Quits: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjjcmpfyrqdnldgl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  124. # [05:52] * jeremyselier_ is now known as jeremyselier
  125. # [05:52] * matijsb_ is now known as matijsb
  126. # [05:53] * Joins: ryanseddon_ (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojqmgllmeoruqvpn)
  127. # [06:00] * Joins: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eweflcccxfdsolwf)
  128. # [06:01] * Joins: wycats (u79@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arycxvvcyjajbxrh)
  129. # [06:02] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  130. # [06:23] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: hij1nx)
  131. # [06:30] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-35-157.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  132. # [06:35] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  133. # [06:46] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@207.239.114.206)
  134. # [06:48] * Quits: wookiehangover (~wookiehan@c-67-161-138-118.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  135. # [06:49] * Joins: J_Voracek (~J_Voracek@pool-173-64-192-106.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
  136. # [06:52] * Joins: agektmr1 (~Adium@74.125.56.34)
  137. # [06:52] * Joins: agektmr2 (~Adium@74.125.56.33)
  138. # [06:52] * Quits: agektmr (~Adium@2401:fa00:4:1012:fa1e:dfff:fee6:d74e) (Read error: No route to host)
  139. # [06:56] * Quits: agektmr1 (~Adium@74.125.56.34) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  140. # [07:05] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-35-157.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  141. # [07:06] * Joins: rniwa_ (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  142. # [07:07] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  143. # [07:07] * rniwa_ is now known as rniwa
  144. # [07:08] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@207.239.114.206) (Quit: tantek)
  145. # [07:15] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-35-157.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  146. # [07:26] * Joins: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-31-170.adsl.inetia.pl)
  147. # [07:28] * Quits: kinuko (~kinuko@2401:fa00:4:1004:225:ff:feee:f981) (Quit: kinuko)
  148. # [07:31] * Joins: wookiehangover (~wookiehan@c-67-161-138-118.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  149. # [07:32] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@61-205-124-206f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  150. # [07:37] * Joins: wesbos (~wesbos@d226-36-66.home.cgocable.net)
  151. # [07:38] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  152. # [07:39] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.5.6)
  153. # [07:40] * Quits: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B05D965.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  154. # [07:42] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  155. # [07:46] * Quits: J_Voracek (~J_Voracek@pool-173-64-192-106.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: disconnected: Jace Voracek - Jace@Jace-Place.com)
  156. # [07:53] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@c83-250-143-26.bredband.comhem.se)
  157. # [07:55] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  158. # [07:56] * Joins: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B05D965.dip.t-dialin.net)
  159. # [08:24] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@157.125.34.95.customer.cdi.no)
  160. # [08:42] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@112-68-245-11f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  161. # [08:45] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-cmfxstgyvyvkgevy) (Remote host closed the connection)
  162. # [08:46] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-gzubowsrgeahqpsl)
  163. # [08:49] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  164. # [08:50] * Joins: rody (~rody@69-165-155-82.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  165. # [08:53] * Quits: rody (~rody@69-165-155-82.dsl.teksavvy.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  166. # [09:03] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@112-68-245-11f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  167. # [09:06] * Joins: woef (~woef@91.183.84.141)
  168. # [09:17] * Quits: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  169. # [09:18] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-35-157.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  170. # [09:23] * Joins: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@nat-204-14-239-209-sfo.net.salesforce.com)
  171. # [09:28] * Quits: wesbos (~wesbos@d226-36-66.home.cgocable.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  172. # [09:30] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082A8AE.dip.t-dialin.net)
  173. # [09:33] * Quits: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B05D965.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  174. # [09:35] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082A9BC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  175. # [09:36] * Joins: jochen___ (jochen@nat/google/x-papzndlcmlivwwdv)
  176. # [09:38] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-gzubowsrgeahqpsl) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  177. # [09:38] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
  178. # [09:38] * Joins: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B05D2FD.dip.t-dialin.net)
  179. # [09:47] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  180. # [09:47] * Quits: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@nat-204-14-239-209-sfo.net.salesforce.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  181. # [09:47] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  182. # [09:52] * Quits: oal (u4126@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npcymlcuqwjnizie) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  183. # [09:53] * Quits: scheib (u4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvkenjfwabnvvsdu) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  184. # [09:53] * Joins: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  185. # [09:53] * Quits: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lpthybqlwrfhmuyq) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  186. # [09:54] * Joins: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ntgzpdvnbflwojsc)
  187. # [09:54] * Quits: Scorchin (u1242@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojmlmsdytupfhlge) (Excess Flood)
  188. # [09:54] * Quits: ryanseddon_ (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ojqmgllmeoruqvpn) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  189. # [09:54] * Quits: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ireyzddevsaratmp) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  190. # [09:55] * Quits: rabbi_skanderb3g (u2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wphbpbtvaffhendw) (Excess Flood)
  191. # [09:55] * Joins: ryanseddon_ (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-matzpkjxrzpifsev)
  192. # [09:55] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-086-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  193. # [09:58] * Joins: Scorchin (u1242@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gplgfjsesrbkoyju)
  194. # [09:59] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-086-124.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  195. # [09:59] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-086-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Client Quit)
  196. # [10:01] * Joins: oal (u4126@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rcoxytvybconcfsl)
  197. # [10:01] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-88-98f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  198. # [10:02] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  199. # [10:04] * Joins: rabbi_skanderb3g (u2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-npzybhwofzaiouue)
  200. # [10:04] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221)
  201. # [10:06] * Joins: scheib (u4467@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-klvjrypchcugfhnz)
  202. # [10:07] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  203. # [10:07] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-97-231.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-4.1450hg.fc15 [XULRunner 8.0/20111108090029])
  204. # [10:11] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.167.105)
  205. # [10:15] * Joins: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-obnjbjulufjtynht)
  206. # [10:24] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-086-124.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  207. # [10:25] * Quits: KevinMarks2 (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  208. # [10:28] * Joins: richt (~richt@cpc1-gran1-0-0-cust600.12-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  209. # [10:29] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-78-178.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  210. # [10:30] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-88-98f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  211. # [10:31] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-90-67f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  212. # [10:38] * Joins: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl)
  213. # [10:43] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-220-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  214. # [10:44] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  215. # [10:45] <webben> what spec should i be looking at for the replacement for mutation events?
  216. # [10:50] <Ms2ger> DOM4
  217. # [10:53] <webben> Ms2ger: Ah, cheers.
  218. # [10:58] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@p54AE0EBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  219. # [11:01] * Quits: mbatle (mbatle@pasanda.collabora.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  220. # [11:01] * Joins: mbatle (mbatle@pasanda.collabora.co.uk)
  221. # [11:04] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-220-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  222. # [11:10] * Quits: erlehmann (~erlehmann@dslb-094-223-086-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  223. # [11:11] * paul_irish is now known as paul_irish_
  224. # [11:14] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  225. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: on http://platform.html5.org/ yesterday, I added links to test suites/test cases where I could find any
  226. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> including to "submitted" tests, not just to approved ones
  227. # [11:22] <MikeSmith> the ⓣ links
  228. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> if you see anything missing that I should add links for, lemme know
  229. # [11:23] <MikeSmith> or fork https://github.com/sideshowbarker/platform.html5.org and make a pull request
  230. # [11:23] * Joins: eminos (~eminos@c-71c7e555.021-155-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  231. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> annevk: all links after Server-Sent Events ones still not working in my Opera
  232. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> and still I have no clue why
  233. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> looked at DOM and it's as expected
  234. # [11:27] <MikeSmith> and no errors logged to console
  235. # [11:28] * Quits: eminos (~eminos@c-71c7e555.021-155-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Client Quit)
  236. # [11:28] * Joins: eminos (~eminos@c-71c7e555.021-155-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  237. # [11:28] <zcorpan> wfm
  238. # [11:31] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  239. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> zcorpan: weird
  240. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> I see the same problem in both Opera.next and 11.60
  241. # [11:47] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@ppp-124-121-253-245.revip2.asianet.co.th) (Quit: Leaving)
  242. # [11:49] * Quits: agektmr2 (~Adium@74.125.56.33) (Quit: Leaving.)
  243. # [11:49] <Ms2ger> Does HTML5 still have classList?
  244. # [11:49] <MikeSmith> did last time I checked
  245. # [11:50] <MikeSmith> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/elements.html#dom-classlist
  246. # [11:50] * Ms2ger files a bug
  247. # [11:53] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: was it meant to be dropped?
  248. # [11:53] <Ms2ger> smaug____, were you working on a ProgressEvent constructor already?
  249. # [11:53] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, it's moved to DOM
  250. # [11:53] <MikeSmith> ah
  251. # [11:53] <smaug____> Ms2ger: there is a bug open for that
  252. # [11:53] <Ms2ger> Good
  253. # [11:53] <smaug____> Ms2ger: bug 710882
  254. # [11:55] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, http://w3c-test.org/html/, http://test.csswg.org/harness/
  255. # [11:55] * Joins: Lachy (Lachy@nat/opera/x-qcfebebiuspmltni)
  256. # [11:55] <Ms2ger> http://hg.ecmascript.org/tests/test262/
  257. # [11:56] <Ms2ger> SVG also has tests somewhere
  258. # [11:56] <MikeSmith> yeah, I'll ask Doug about those
  259. # [11:58] <MikeSmith> thanks for the other links -- added
  260. # [11:58] <Ms2ger> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/6c149e83cd5d/test/touchevents/single-touch.html is apparently the only touch events test
  261. # [11:58] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com)
  262. # [11:59] <smaug____> there is another for multitouch
  263. # [11:59] <smaug____> a simple one
  264. # [11:59] <smaug____> somewhere in pettay.fi. Art should move it to w3.org
  265. # [11:59] * MikeSmith adds that one for now
  266. # [12:00] * MikeSmith finds http://w3c.pettay.fi/webevents/tests/touchevents/
  267. # [12:03] <smaug____> MikeSmith: yeah, the single-touch.html should be the same as what is now in w3.org
  268. # [12:03] <MikeSmith> ah, OK
  269. # [12:23] * Quits: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
  270. # [12:27] * Quits: eminos (~eminos@c-71c7e555.021-155-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Leaving)
  271. # [12:28] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  272. # [12:30] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  273. # [12:37] <Velmont> zcorpan, MikeSmith: I have the same problem with links after SSE not working on http://platform.html5.org/
  274. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> Velmont: oh, cool
  275. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> well, not cool
  276. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> but at least we know it's reproducible
  277. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> and not a figment of my imagination
  278. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> oh
  279. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> it's Velmont
  280. # [12:38] <Velmont> MikeSmith: lol :P -- Yes, some bug with links and columns then I guess. I'll see if I can make a reduced TC.
  281. # [12:38] <MikeSmith> file a but please man
  282. # [12:39] <MikeSmith> thanks (about making reduced test case)
  283. # [12:41] <annevk> ah shit
  284. # [12:41] <annevk> I need a bigger harddisk
  285. # [12:41] <annevk> I wonder how much a 256 goes for these days
  286. # [12:42] <MikeSmith> Velmont: hmm, yeah, I see now if I switch from 3-column to 2-column or single-column, the problem goes away
  287. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> TB?
  288. # [12:42] <zcorpan> SSD?
  289. # [12:42] <MikeSmith> Velmont: oh, actually I see it doesn't -- it just moves
  290. # [12:44] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: thanks for moving those tests
  291. # [12:44] <Ms2ger> Np
  292. # [12:44] <MikeSmith> I had actually been planning to do that but you are far lazier than me
  293. # [12:44] <annevk> yeah SSD
  294. # [12:44] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: I should send you a copy of my TODO list
  295. # [12:45] <annevk> I'm on 128 now and with this new Windows 7 installation within VMWare it's beginning to crack down
  296. # [12:45] <Ms2ger> I'd been planning to do that for months as well :)
  297. # [12:46] <MikeSmith> heh
  298. # [12:46] * MikeSmith adds some more test links
  299. # [12:47] <MikeSmith> sweet
  300. # [12:47] <MikeSmith> those tests even use testharness.js
  301. # [12:50] <annevk> I guess I'll call the shop that ordered my MacBook, see if they can do something
  302. # [12:50] * Joins: eminos (~eminos@c-71c7e555.021-155-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  303. # [12:50] <Velmont> It's seemingly affected by the height of the browser window...
  304. # [12:50] <annevk> hah, I do have 8GiB of memory
  305. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> Velmont: I see
  306. # [12:51] * zcorpan also has 128 and 8
  307. # [12:51] <Velmont> Less height = less linky goodness, more height = more linky goodness.
  308. # [12:51] <MikeSmith> aha
  309. # [12:52] <Velmont> Smells optimization.
  310. # [12:52] <MikeSmith> devs getting too smart for their own good
  311. # [12:53] <MikeSmith> it is great to have proper column-break support, though (outside of the link bug)
  312. # [12:54] <MikeSmith> things don't look so great if a browser breaks the column right after a <dt> instead of before it
  313. # [12:56] <MikeSmith> anybody know if Hallvord has tests for Clipboard API and events?
  314. # [12:56] <MikeSmith> also, any tests somewhere for requestAnimationFrame
  315. # [12:56] <annevk> zcorpan: does platform.html5.org also work for you on the second column?
  316. # [12:56] <zcorpan> yes
  317. # [12:56] <annevk> Ms2ger: Gecko did remove initCustomEvent, right?
  318. # [12:56] <annevk> zcorpan: oh
  319. # [12:57] <Velmont> zcorpan: What screen size?
  320. # [12:58] <Ms2ger> Not sure
  321. # [12:59] <Ms2ger> Doesn't look like it
  322. # [13:00] <MikeSmith> and still haven't found any Web Messaging tests
  323. # [13:07] * Joins: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  324. # [13:07] <smaug____> annevk: I'm not removing any init*Event methods from gecko
  325. # [13:08] <smaug____> I mean, not right now
  326. # [13:08] <zcorpan> Velmont: worked with various zoom levels
  327. # [13:08] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  328. # [13:08] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  329. # [13:09] <MikeSmith> heh "I still can't believe javascript - the f**ing backbone-language of the web - doesn't offer an API for mutating URLs."
  330. # [13:09] <Ms2ger> It does now, doesn't it?
  331. # [13:13] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@524BA444.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  332. # [13:14] * Joins: beowulf (u116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf)
  333. # [13:20] <annevk> I wonder what Marat wants the DOM4 editors to say
  334. # [13:20] <annevk> smaug____: kk
  335. # [13:20] <Ms2ger> "bz is right"
  336. # [13:20] <smaug____> :)
  337. # [13:25] <MikeSmith> is the URL API actually supported already?
  338. # [13:26] <Ms2ger> smaug____, do you remember if we landed the Gecko patch?
  339. # [13:26] <MikeSmith> oh, it is in Gecko
  340. # [13:27] * Joins: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-40-234.adsl.inetia.pl)
  341. # [13:27] <annevk> meh
  342. # [13:27] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-31-170.adsl.inetia.pl) (Disconnected by services)
  343. # [13:28] <annevk> not exactly cheap
  344. # [13:28] * GlitchMr42 is now known as GlitchMr
  345. # [13:28] <MikeSmith> how do I get an actual console with completion in Dragonfly?
  346. # [13:29] <bga> lol http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
  347. # [13:29] <smaug____> Ms2ger: which gecko patch?
  348. # [13:29] <smaug____> Ms2ger: for URLs?
  349. # [13:29] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  350. # [13:29] <smaug____> I don't think so
  351. # [13:30] * Ms2ger checks
  352. # [13:31] <annevk> bga: what?
  353. # [13:31] <bga> do you want standardize all things in the world?
  354. # [13:32] <Ms2ger> Nope
  355. # [13:32] <Ms2ger> bga, yes.
  356. # [13:32] <bga> anyway api is bad
  357. # [13:32] <annevk> send feedback!
  358. # [13:32] <bga> sec
  359. # [13:41] <Velmont> MikeSmith: ...? Go to the console tab? It should have tab completion.
  360. # [13:42] <MikeSmith> Velmont: don't seem to do completion for me the way it used to.. Maybe I need to upgrade my Dragonfly
  361. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> oh
  362. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> working as expected in my Opera.next
  363. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> weird
  364. # [13:44] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com)
  365. # [13:44] <Velmont> It works here in 11.60. But then again, -- you can run any other DragonFly in the browser, -- Opera doesn't really bundle DragonFly but downloads it from the web and uses appcache to store it. AFAIR.
  366. # [13:50] <MikeSmith> Velmont: yeah, I knew that and thought it also auto-updated
  367. # [13:51] <MikeSmith> how do I tell what version of Dragonfly I have?
  368. # [13:52] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-90-67f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Quit: And Now for Something Completely Different.)
  369. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> oh, found it
  370. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> Settings > About in Dragonfly
  371. # [13:55] * Joins: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-27-7.adsl.inetia.pl)
  372. # [13:56] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-40-234.adsl.inetia.pl) (Disconnected by services)
  373. # [13:56] * GlitchMr42 is now known as GlitchMr
  374. # [13:57] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  375. # [14:05] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  376. # [14:07] <kennyluck> webben, (re. what spec should i be looking at for the replacement for mutation events?) and the undomanager spec maybe?
  377. # [14:09] <bga> annevk beta version :) http://pastie.org/3079269
  378. # [14:10] <bga> full decomposition
  379. # [14:10] * Quits: yuuki (~kobayashi@58x158x182x50.ap58.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  380. # [14:11] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  381. # [14:12] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.5.6) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
  382. # [14:12] <annevk> bga: URIs are called URLs in APIs
  383. # [14:13] <annevk> no opinion other than that really, emailing whatwg@whatwg.org seems best
  384. # [14:13] <bga> fixed
  385. # [14:13] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  386. # [14:16] <annevk> for people with opinions on encodings and conformance checkers: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15332
  387. # [14:16] <annevk> (already added hsivonen)
  388. # [14:22] * Joins: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-0-69.adsl.inetia.pl)
  389. # [14:22] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-27-7.adsl.inetia.pl) (Disconnected by services)
  390. # [14:23] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  391. # [14:23] * GlitchMr42 is now known as GlitchMr
  392. # [14:23] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com) (Client Quit)
  393. # [14:23] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  394. # [14:27] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  395. # [14:28] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  396. # [14:36] * Joins: AryehGregor (~Simetrica@mediawiki/simetrical)
  397. # [14:39] * AryehGregor gloomily contemplates 427 unread conversations in his spec inbox
  398. # [14:41] <annevk> I was gonna say that it's not a lot of email, but I guess it's a bit more email than 427 if that's conversations
  399. # [14:42] <annevk> MikeSmith: what would r12a want?
  400. # [14:42] <MikeSmith> dunno
  401. # [14:42] <Ms2ger> Is wwrw the new wwjd?
  402. # [14:43] <MikeSmith> annevk: he's already not happy about the reporting that v.nu does for UTF-16
  403. # [14:43] <gsnedders> Oh, I guess it's Merry Hixieday today!
  404. # [14:44] <MikeSmith> annevk: actually, I think he's not happy about what the spec says about use of UTF-16
  405. # [14:44] <Ms2ger> Indeed it is
  406. # [14:44] <annevk> wwrw?
  407. # [14:45] <annevk> AryehGregor: I guess you're married now, so congratulations again!
  408. # [14:45] <AryehGregor> Thanks.
  409. # [14:45] <gsnedders> AryehGregor: Congrats!
  410. # [14:45] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com)
  411. # [14:46] <Ms2ger> ^What they said
  412. # [14:46] <annevk> MikeSmith: we could make an exception for UTF-16, though everyone tells me it's a world of hurt
  413. # [14:46] <annevk> MikeSmith: making an exception for tis-620 and such though... dunno
  414. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> yeah
  415. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> about conformance-checking tools, Richard has an online tool that he's put a lot of work into and that represents what he thinks the proper type/level of reporting should be, so he kind of uses that a benchmark
  416. # [14:49] <MikeSmith> http://validator.w3.org/i18n-checker/
  417. # [14:50] * Joins: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  418. # [14:51] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  419. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> oh hey
  420. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> for non-UTF8 docs, it does actually report "Non-UTF-8 character encoding declared"
  421. # [14:52] <MikeSmith> so maybe I need to STFU
  422. # [14:53] <Ms2ger> That certainly would make life less interesting
  423. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> heh
  424. # [14:53] <annevk> so if serve "7A 00" as utf-16be only IE outputs "z"
  425. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> and expanding that message shows among others things "UTF-16 is also a character encoding based on Unicode, but is little used on the Web, and generally best avoided."
  426. # [14:53] <annevk> everyone else gives "稀"
  427. # [14:53] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@114.112.45.145)
  428. # [14:54] * Quits: Lachy (Lachy@nat/opera/x-qcfebebiuspmltni) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  429. # [14:54] <annevk> if I serve it up as utf-16 (without BOM) everyone defaults to utf-16le
  430. # [14:55] <MikeSmith> man, Richard puts a lot of work into this stuff -- he's added more since the last time I checked: "Using non-UTF-8 encodings can also have unexpected results on form submission and URL encodings... It is not a requirement to use UTF-8, but the HTML5 specification recommends its use, and you should consider it."
  431. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> and also "What to do: Replace the http-equiv and content attributes in your meta tag with a charset attribute"
  432. # [14:56] <annevk> utf-16le with FE FF 7A 00 results in "稀" in WebKit/IE
  433. # [14:56] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  434. # [14:56] <annevk> Gecko gives "�竿" and Opera "￾z"...
  435. # [14:57] <gsnedders> Oh nice. :\
  436. # [14:58] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@pool-72-94-180-111.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
  437. # [14:59] <annevk> for utf-16be with le BOM it's kind of the same
  438. # [14:59] <annevk> conclusions: BOM is more important
  439. # [14:59] <annevk> utf-16le == utf-16 in WebKit/Trident
  440. # [14:59] <annevk> (afaict)
  441. # [15:04] <annevk> gsnedders: just to be sure, PHP just looks at octets right?
  442. # [15:04] <gsnedders> annevk: yup
  443. # [15:04] <annevk> gsnedders: that is I can write PHP using ASCII octets and follow the ?> with utf-16 octets
  444. # [15:05] * annevk uses PHP to set a header
  445. # [15:05] <gsnedders> annevk: PHP has no concept of anything except ASCII
  446. # [15:05] <annevk> and it also doesn't mangle anything right?
  447. # [15:05] <annevk> in that sense it's kind of neat
  448. # [15:05] <annevk> maybe also vulnerable and what not, but neat
  449. # [15:06] <gsnedders> annevk: indeed
  450. # [15:07] <annevk> thanks
  451. # [15:08] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  452. # [15:21] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  453. # [15:22] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-68-203-0-108.austin.res.rr.com)
  454. # [15:22] * Joins: tndH (~Rob@adsl-178-78-99-119.karoo.kcom.com)
  455. # [15:29] * Joins: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-34-193.adsl.inetia.pl)
  456. # [15:31] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-0-69.adsl.inetia.pl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  457. # [15:40] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  458. # [15:41] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  459. # [15:41] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  460. # [15:41] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  461. # [15:44] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: hij1nx)
  462. # [15:48] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  463. # [15:48] * Joins: paissad (~paissad@89-92-16-151.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr)
  464. # [15:52] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com)
  465. # [15:54] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@cpe-98-14-168-178.nyc.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
  466. # [15:59] <annevk> emailed utf-16 research to the WHATWG list
  467. # [15:59] <annevk> took a while to write it all out
  468. # [16:02] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com)
  469. # [16:04] <zewt> annevk: using html mail set to a fixed-width font for tables makes them more readable for a lot of people, fyi
  470. # [16:06] <annevk> wait I'm using html email?
  471. # [16:06] <divya> ouch
  472. # [16:07] <annevk> I'm writing plain text as far as I know
  473. # [16:07] <annevk> http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2011-December/034260.html confirms
  474. # [16:07] <zewt> no, i mean if you have stuff that needs to be viewed as fixed-width, it's best to include an html version so you can set that
  475. # [16:07] <zewt> else you get the default of "whatever the user's viewer is set to", which will often be proportional
  476. # [16:08] <zewt> setting fonts in email has few legitimate use cases, but this is one of them
  477. # [16:08] <annevk> AryehGregor: please read IDL before filing a bug
  478. # [16:08] <annevk> AryehGregor: in particular (Node or DOMString) is valid
  479. # [16:08] <annevk> afaik
  480. # [16:08] <AryehGregor> You mean WebIDL?
  481. # [16:08] * AryehGregor looks
  482. # [16:09] <AryehGregor> Is that a recent change?
  483. # [16:09] <annevk> yes
  484. # [16:09] <AryehGregor> Oh, I see.
  485. # [16:09] <annevk> in any event, I disagree with the premise of your bug
  486. # [16:10] <annevk> I'm not going to define experimental IDL in prose if I expect IDL to define it at some point in the near future
  487. # [16:10] <AryehGregor> Well, as long as there's at least a concrete proposal for the syntax that's expected to be looked at soon.
  488. # [16:11] <AryehGregor> Then I don't have an issue with it, if it's going to be resolved soon. No need to have strict ordering in that case.
  489. # [16:13] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  490. # [16:14] * GlitchMr42 is now known as GlitchMr
  491. # [16:15] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@114.112.45.145) (Remote host closed the connection)
  492. # [16:19] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@c83-250-143-26.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: Leaving.)
  493. # [16:22] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@157.125.34.95.customer.cdi.no) (Quit: mishunov)
  494. # [16:27] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-78-178.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  495. # [16:27] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  496. # [16:31] * Joins: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-139-252.adsl.inetia.pl)
  497. # [16:33] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-1-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  498. # [16:34] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-34-193.adsl.inetia.pl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  499. # [16:35] * Joins: J_Voracek (~J_Voracek@pool-173-64-192-106.dllstx.fios.verizon.net)
  500. # [16:40] * Quits: J_Voracek (~J_Voracek@pool-173-64-192-106.dllstx.fios.verizon.net) (Client Quit)
  501. # [16:44] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  502. # [16:45] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  503. # [16:46] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@524BA444.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  504. # [16:48] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  505. # [16:50] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  506. # [16:52] * Joins: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  507. # [16:52] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  508. # [16:55] * Joins: charlvn (~charlvn@524BA444.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  509. # [16:56] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
  510. # [16:57] * Joins: hij1nx (~hij1nx@rrcs-184-74-224-199.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  511. # [16:58] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@rrcs-184-74-224-199.nyc.biz.rr.com) (Client Quit)
  512. # [17:03] * Quits: AryehGregor (~Simetrica@mediawiki/simetrical) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  513. # [17:16] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  514. # [17:27] * Joins: DudeNesss (DudeNess@124.106.218.20)
  515. # [17:34] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@125.25.39.26.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
  516. # [17:35] * Joins: silentimp (~silentimp@88-87-200-46.pool.ukrtel.net)
  517. # [17:40] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@97-125-10-42.eugn.qwest.net)
  518. # [17:41] * Joins: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl)
  519. # [17:47] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
  520. # [17:48] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@97-125-10-42.eugn.qwest.net) (Quit: tantek)
  521. # [17:57] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  522. # [17:57] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  523. # [18:00] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@70-89-66-218-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  524. # [18:00] * Joins: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130)
  525. # [18:06] * Joins: AryehGregor (~Simetrica@mediawiki/simetrical)
  526. # [18:12] * Quits: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-139-252.adsl.inetia.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  527. # [18:16] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  528. # [18:17] * Quits: woef (~woef@91.183.84.141) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  529. # [18:21] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  530. # [18:24] * Joins: jonatasnona (~jonatas@186.207.197.180)
  531. # [18:28] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@125.25.39.26.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  532. # [18:37] * Quits: andyg (~andyg@CPE-124-189-148-81.sqcy1.win.bigpond.net.au) (Quit: andyg)
  533. # [18:46] * Joins: imacinto (~imacinto@c1fw226.constantcontact.com)
  534. # [18:47] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  535. # [18:49] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-97-231.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
  536. # [18:50] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
  537. # [18:52] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-97-231.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: No route to host)
  538. # [18:53] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@adsl-70-131-97-231.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)
  539. # [18:54] * Quits: silentimp (~silentimp@88-87-200-46.pool.ukrtel.net) (Read error: Connection timed out)
  540. # [18:55] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  541. # [18:55] * Joins: silentimp (~silentimp@88-87-200-46.pool.ukrtel.net)
  542. # [18:56] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com)
  543. # [19:00] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.5.6)
  544. # [19:00] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.5.6) (Client Quit)
  545. # [19:00] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.5.6)
  546. # [19:03] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@122.237.5.6) (Client Quit)
  547. # [19:03] <AryehGregor> Is there any JS-visible difference between "interface Foo { void foo(); }; interface Bar { void bar(); }; Foo implements Bar;" and "interface Foo { void foo(); void bar(); };"?
  548. # [19:04] <AryehGregor> I mean, does "implements" just mean "pretend all the interface members are really on the other interface too"?
  549. # [19:05] <bga> depends how you implement OOP
  550. # [19:06] <AryehGregor> How so?
  551. # [19:06] <bga> var Bar = { bar: }; var Foo = { __proto__: Bar, foo: }
  552. # [19:06] <bga> 1st case
  553. # [19:06] * Joins: nverduin (~nverduin@12.175.21.60)
  554. # [19:07] <AryehGregor> I'm asking what the WebIDL spec requires.
  555. # [19:09] <smaug____> AryehGregor: there is certainly difference. In the latter case "Bar" in window would be false
  556. # [19:10] <smaug____> (but I don't recall what WebIDL says about prototypes)
  557. # [19:10] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, if you add [NoInterfaceObject], I think not
  558. # [19:10] <AryehGregor> Alternatively, is it the same as "interface Foo { void foo(); void bar(); }; interface Bar { void bar(); };"?
  559. # [19:11] <smaug____> hmm, what does WebIDL say about instanceof
  560. # [19:12] <Ms2ger> Read it :)
  561. # [19:12] <AryehGregor> I don't think it says anything.
  562. # [19:12] <AryehGregor> It just uses the ES5 definition, doesn't it?
  563. # [19:12] <Ms2ger> Anyway, you probably shouldn't use implements without [NoInterfaceObject]
  564. # [19:15] * Quits: jonatasnona (~jonatas@186.207.197.180) (Quit: Saindo)
  565. # [19:23] <AryehGregor> The IDLs for CSSOM and HTML have circular dependencies. :(
  566. # [19:23] <AryehGregor> (well, not exactly, but an IDL for CSSOM depends on one from HTML and vice versa)
  567. # [19:24] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@p54AE0EBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  568. # [19:26] <Philip`> Solution: put all web technologies into a single spec
  569. # [19:26] <GPHemsley> Is there a reason that WHATWG specs exclude <head> and <body> in their source?
  570. # [19:27] <GPHemsley> oh, wait, they
  571. # [19:27] <GPHemsley> 're not WHATWG
  572. # [19:27] <GPHemsley> I'm looking specifically at this: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
  573. # [19:27] <AryehGregor> New WebIDL question: is there any difference between "interface Foo {}; partial interface Foo { void foo(); };" and "interface Foo {}; [NoInterfaceObject] interface Bar { void foo(); }; Foo implements Bar;"? Except that the former doesn't work if you want multiple interfaces to get the member?
  574. # [19:28] <AryehGregor> GPHemsley, the <head> and <body> tags are optional in text/html. No reason to include them unless you want attributes on them, usually (there are some other possible reasons).
  575. # [19:28] * GPHemsley never likes the "it's optional, so I leave it out" <s>excuse</s> explanation
  576. # [19:29] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  577. # [19:29] <GPHemsley> also, why not take advantage of <header>?
  578. # [19:29] <zewt> typically the burden is to explain why to include something that's optional, not why to exclude it
  579. # [19:29] <GPHemsley> (etc.)
  580. # [19:30] * Joins: TabAtkins (tabatkins@nat/google/x-aikhelnawppkzzhp)
  581. # [19:30] <GPHemsley> zewt: Something like the difference between <head> and <body> seems pretty fundamental to me
  582. # [19:30] <GPHemsley> structurally/mentally-speaking
  583. # [19:30] <webben> GPHemsley: Wot?
  584. # [19:31] <GPHemsley> "just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD"
  585. # [19:31] <webben> GPHemsley: Can you describe what the advantage of including redundant syntax would be in this case?
  586. # [19:31] <TabAtkins> I assume we're talking about nested-microdata-in-head?
  587. # [19:31] <GPHemsley> webben: legibility, at least
  588. # [19:32] <GPHemsley> TabAtkins: No, something much less complex.
  589. # [19:32] <webben> GPHemsley: Legibility to whom?
  590. # [19:32] <GPHemsley> me :)
  591. # [19:32] <webben> GPHemsley: Why do you need to be able to read the spec's source?
  592. # [19:33] <GPHemsley> Shouldn't one have the ability to read any page's source...? Otherwise, why aren't the elements just named <1> <2> <3> etc.?
  593. # [19:33] <Ms2ger> GPHemsley, that file is generated, there's no point in optimizing its legibility
  594. # [19:33] <zewt> seems more like "i'm used to doing this so I think it's weird not to simply due to habit"
  595. # [19:34] <GPHemsley> zewt: I'm sure that's part of it, but I think it's more than that.
  596. # [19:34] <webben> GPHemsley: 1) No, why? 2) Because good names makes it easier to know how to use them.
  597. # [19:35] <webben> GPHemsley: Particularly, with respect to 1) if WHATWG should be optimising for anything you could argue it should be performance.
  598. # [19:35] <GPHemsley> Well, thinking out loud, what is the burden on the parser to have determine where the <head> stuff ends?
  599. # [19:35] <GPHemsley> heh
  600. # [19:35] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  601. # [19:35] <webben> GPHemsley: There's no special burden on the parser.
  602. # [19:36] <GPHemsley> that's interesting
  603. # [19:36] <webben> GPHemsley: It knows it's left <head> as soon it see a start tag that cannot exist in <head>.
  604. # [19:37] <Ms2ger> The parser has to handle this anyway, so that's not a particularly compelling argument
  605. # [19:37] <GPHemsley> So then the <head> and <body> tags are vestigial and irrelevant now?
  606. # [19:37] <TabAtkins> Basically, yeah.
  607. # [19:38] <GPHemsley> interesting
  608. # [19:38] <Ms2ger> Well, now
  609. # [19:38] <TabAtkins> If by "now" you mean "since at least the last decade, and probably the decade before that".
  610. # [19:38] <Ms2ger> What TabAtkins said
  611. # [19:38] <webben> GPHemsley: I agree if you're trying to optimize for least surprise for fellow developers, then you might want to be explicit about implied elements.
  612. # [19:38] <zewt> since afaik no new tags can ever be added to <head> (because it would cause incompat between browsers that know the tag and those that don't), it sort of dead-ends <head> as a concept anyway
  613. # [19:38] <webben> GPHemsley: But that's not the only possible dimension around which to optimize (esp. production) source code.
  614. # [19:39] <GPHemsley> zewt: Yeah, I'd just read something to that effect.
  615. # [19:39] <zewt> leading to weirdness like people trying to wedge <intent> into <link>
  616. # [19:39] <webben> GPHemsley: (Also, in practice people generally don't remember all the implicit elements. Few people add implied TBODY for example.
  617. # [19:40] * Joins: wesbos (~wesbos@d226-36-66.home.cgocable.net)
  618. # [19:40] <zewt> also, having less boilerplate for simple documents is an overall win
  619. # [19:40] <webben> GPHemsley: Also, people generally don't complain when JS and CSS get minified.
  620. # [19:40] * Quits: eminos (~eminos@c-71c7e555.021-155-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
  621. # [19:40] <GPHemsley> ack, ok
  622. # [19:40] <GPHemsley> sheesh
  623. # [19:40] <zewt> webben: i despise minifiers
  624. # [19:40] <webben> (This does have an effect on the web of course - less learning by C+P. But everything involves a tradeoff.)
  625. # [19:40] <zewt> they need to die in a ditch (on fire)
  626. # [19:40] <webben> zewt: "generally" ;)
  627. # [19:41] <zewt> (nothing's worse than trying to greasemonkey around a dumb site bug, to find that everything's a mess because somebody doesn't believe in deflate)
  628. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> Heh, I hate minifiers too. Squeezing a few extra bytes out (most of which will be removed by compression anyway) at the near-total cost of readability is a bad tradeoff to me.
  629. # [19:41] <GPHemsley> yeah... I think the discussion really comes down to who you're optimizing for: a human or a parser
  630. # [19:41] <webben> zewt: People are right not to believe in deflate - because of misconfigured proxies etc a lot of people won't get compressed content.
  631. # [19:41] <zewt> it's basically tossing the benefits of a textual format down the toilet
  632. # [19:42] <webben> Not really. GM has to interact with the DOM, and the DOM is implied.
  633. # [19:43] <webben> (I'm not in favour of minification that alters class names/ids or whatever.)
  634. # [19:43] <webben> i.e. I'm not in favour of minification that breaks the API.
  635. # [19:43] <zewt> i have to interact with the page source, in order to write a script in the first place
  636. # [19:43] <webben> zewt: GM interacts with the DOM not the raw markup, doesn't it?
  637. # [19:44] <zewt> yes, but a human (me) has to write the greasemonkey script in the first place, which requires understanding what the page is doing
  638. # [19:44] <webben> yes, but that requires looking at the DOM not the source.
  639. # [19:44] <zewt> eg. minification doubles as obfuscation (not always unintentionally)
  640. # [19:44] <webben> if you're talking about JS, that's a different story.
  641. # [19:45] <zewt> looking at the DOM doesn't help me read minifuscated javascript source
  642. # [19:45] <TabAtkins> I super-abhore packed JS, though luckily that's much less common these days.
  643. # [19:45] <Ms2ger> Is it?
  644. # [19:45] <webben> there's a case for preserving names in JS minification so when you re-beautify it's easier to read.
  645. # [19:46] <webben> I'm not sure whether the JS constitutes part of the public API of the page or not.
  646. # [19:46] <zewt> ... most pages don't have a "public API"
  647. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: I used to see it a lot when viewing people's source. Now I very rarely see it.
  648. # [19:46] <webben> zewt: Depends what you mean.
  649. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: Also, it doesn't seem to figure into people's tutorials these days.
  650. # [19:47] <webben> zewt: I think a lot (most? probably not) of pages do have a public API.
  651. # [19:47] <zewt> if a page has an obnoxious javascript tooltip fade-in, and I want to remove it or make it not fade, i can't say I've ever seen a single page where that would be considered "public API"
  652. # [19:48] * GPHemsley silently backs away
  653. # [19:49] <webben> e.g. use of odd bits of semantic HTML, attempts to make pages search-engine/AT friendly
  654. # [19:49] <webben> semantic naming
  655. # [19:50] <webben> zewt: Yeah. I don't think people generally see JS effects as part of the API.
  656. # [19:50] <webben> rather than an implementation detail
  657. # [19:50] <zewt> most of the JS implementation of pages is just considered internals
  658. # [19:50] <webben> exactly
  659. # [19:50] <zewt> and that's usually the sort of thing I end up GM'ing
  660. # [19:51] <zewt> i need to write a script to make twitter stop swallowing browser-owned keystrokes. heh
  661. # [19:51] <webben> I think the solution there is better HTML and CSS features so more of this is declarative rather than imperative.
  662. # [19:51] <webben> declarative and overrideable
  663. # [19:51] <zewt> it's not really okay to preventDefault on alt-t
  664. # [19:51] <webben> And more fine-grained UA control over what sites can do
  665. # [19:52] <zewt> webben: not holding my breath
  666. # [19:52] <webben> Sure.
  667. # [19:52] <webben> Probably wise ;)
  668. # [19:52] <zewt> at least twitter isn't eating alt-d anymore, which iirc it used to
  669. # [19:53] <webben> We do sometimes discuss better features for binding keyboard shortcuts to commands so that UA features can remap user actions to commands.
  670. # [19:53] <webben> I think TV Raman filed some bugs along these lines
  671. # [19:54] <webben> although I have feeling Hixie is punting to HTML.Next
  672. # [19:54] <zewt> twitter's oddly been the only notable site I've ever seen that breaks basic browser hotkeys
  673. # [19:54] <webben> Twitter's web frontend leaves much to be desired.
  674. # [19:54] <zewt> it's a lot better than most high-profile sites
  675. # [19:54] <webben> e.g. hash-bang URL nonsense
  676. # [19:54] <zewt> nothing wrong with that (get over it :)
  677. # [19:54] <zewt> well, caveat
  678. # [19:54] <webben> (No! ;) )
  679. # [19:55] <zewt> last I looked at that closely, it wasn't particularly optimized and regularly took many extra round-trips for a simple single-message page; that's dumb
  680. # [19:55] <webben> the history api allows you to set arbitrary URLs
  681. # [19:55] * Joins: Obvious_MkII (tachikoma@188.226.74.2)
  682. # [19:56] <zewt> sure, once it's widely-deployed, which it isn't quite yet
  683. # [19:56] * Quits: Obvious (tachikoma@188.226.74.2) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  684. # [19:56] <webben> Yeah, I think it's better to use it where available and use normal URLs where it's not.
  685. # [19:56] <zewt> (not in IE9)
  686. # [19:56] <webben> yeah it being left out of IE9 is regrettable
  687. # [19:57] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@145-48-142-46.pool.kielnet.net)
  688. # [19:59] <zewt> personally i find the ability to control history entries (replace vs. push) in history api to be much more interesting
  689. # [19:59] <zewt> allowing storing more fine-grained state in the URL without spamming history
  690. # [20:00] <zewt> (as well as things that can't be stored in the URL, like open files, though nobody implements that yet)
  691. # [20:00] <zewt> (afaik)
  692. # [20:02] * Joins: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  693. # [20:14] * Quits: DudeNesss (DudeNess@124.106.218.20)
  694. # [20:28] <zewt> annevk: does encoding *to* legacy encodings need to be specified? i'm not even sure how that works for POST data
  695. # [20:28] <annevk> yes
  696. # [20:28] <annevk> for <form>
  697. # [20:28] <annevk> for URL
  698. # [20:28] <zewt> if I POST CJK through a shift-jis page the data is urlescaped Shift-JIS; if I POST CJK through iso-8859-1, the data is UTF-8 (wtf?)
  699. # [20:29] <annevk> POST CJK how?
  700. # [20:29] <annevk> using accept-charset?
  701. # [20:29] <zewt> enter CJK into a form in a page that was served as shift-jis
  702. # [20:29] <zewt> nothing special
  703. # [20:30] <annevk> that's some interesting behavior for windows-1252
  704. # [20:30] <annevk> I don't think that's correct per HTML
  705. # [20:30] <zewt> er
  706. # [20:30] <annevk> however I don't plan to define how to deal with out of range characters
  707. # [20:31] <zewt> sorry, apache is fucking with me
  708. # [20:31] <annevk> I just plan to define how to go from in-range characters to octets
  709. # [20:31] <annevk> if you have out-of-range characters you will need to do some pre-processing
  710. # [20:31] <zewt> it's taking what I'm giving to AddType and ... changing it, apparently
  711. # [20:31] <annevk> I think <form> does turns them into ? or some such
  712. # [20:32] <zewt> yeah, i've never heard of a standard placeholder like U-FFFD in legacy encodings
  713. # [20:32] * Parts: nverduin (~nverduin@12.175.21.60)
  714. # [20:32] <zewt> afk
  715. # [20:35] * Joins: mkanat (mkanat@nat/google/x-iyyimdufcrvxnpmy)
  716. # [20:35] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  717. # [20:37] * Joins: abarth (abarth@nat/google/x-zzzlgpdpxsemmtqj)
  718. # [20:39] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com)
  719. # [20:45] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@81-237-212-176-no86.tbcn.telia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  720. # [20:45] * Parts: brucel (~brucel@cpc5-smal11-2-0-cust151.perr.cable.virginmedia.com)
  721. # [20:50] * Quits: nephyrin (~nephyrin@people.mozilla.com) (Quit: ... Besides, it was hot)
  722. # [20:51] * Quits: diraol (~diraol@189.38.130.99) (Read error: No route to host)
  723. # [20:51] * Joins: diraol1 (~diraol@189.38.130.99)
  724. # [20:51] * Quits: wilhelm (~wilhelm@178.255.149.98) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  725. # [20:51] * Joins: wilhelm (~wilhelm@178.255.149.98)
  726. # [20:57] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  727. # [20:58] * Joins: martndem_ (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  728. # [20:58] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  729. # [21:04] <gsnedders> annevk: I thought HTML5 already defined it for form, at lesat
  730. # [21:04] <annevk> yeah
  731. # [21:05] * Quits: silentimp (~silentimp@88-87-200-46.pool.ukrtel.net) (Quit: silentimp)
  732. # [21:05] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-177-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  733. # [21:06] <annevk> "For each character in the entry's name and value that cannot be expressed using the selected character encoding, replace the character by a string consisting of a U+0026 AMPERSAND character (&), a U+0023 NUMBER SIGN character (#), one or more characters in the range U+0030 DIGIT ZERO (0) to U+0039 DIGIT NINE (9) representing the Unicode code point of the character in base ten, and finally a U+003B SEMICOLON character (;)."
  734. # [21:06] <annevk> and after that it encodes
  735. # [21:06] <annevk> that's exactly the kind of pre-processing I meant :)
  736. # [21:13] * Quits: diraol1 (~diraol@189.38.130.99) (Quit: Leaving.)
  737. # [21:25] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@145-48-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) (Quit: Bye!)
  738. # [21:28] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  739. # [21:36] * Quits: charlvn (~charlvn@524BA444.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
  740. # [21:39] <annevk> AryehGregor: will look in IE tomorrow unless someone beats me to it
  741. # [21:39] <AryehGregor> annevk, thanks.
  742. # [21:39] * AryehGregor has an AWS VM somewhere he can use, but is too tired to remember how right now
  743. # [21:47] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@121.98.230.221) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  744. # [21:56] * Quits: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  745. # [22:15] * Quits: imacinto (~imacinto@c1fw226.constantcontact.com) (Quit: Quit:)
  746. # [22:18] * Quits: AryehGregor (~Simetrica@mediawiki/simetrical) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  747. # [22:19] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  748. # [22:20] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-118-201.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  749. # [22:28] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-1-54.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  750. # [22:31] * Joins: diraol (~diraol@189.100.9.100)
  751. # [22:31] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  752. # [22:33] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@60.234.54.74)
  753. # [22:33] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@EM114-48-75-17.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  754. # [22:36] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  755. # [22:38] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YYYMYCCCXXIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  756. # [22:38] * Joins: weinig (~weinig@cpe-67-244-17-64.nyc.res.rr.com)
  757. # [22:40] <TabAtkins> Dammit, I can't find my list of necessary commands for webkit hacking. ;_;
  758. # [22:41] <TabAtkins> That thing took a few hours of wiki-diving and messing around (and two people helping me out) to accumulate.
  759. # [22:41] * Quits: martndem_ (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  760. # [22:42] * Quits: diraol (~diraol@189.100.9.100) (Quit: Leaving.)
  761. # [22:42] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  762. # [22:45] * Joins: Neocortex (~niels@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl)
  763. # [22:50] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
  764. # [22:51] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
  765. # [22:52] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@cpe-67-244-17-64.nyc.res.rr.com) (Quit: weinig)
  766. # [22:53] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  767. # [22:59] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@h-66-166-3-76.lsanca54.static.covad.net)
  768. # [23:03] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  769. # [23:04] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  770. # [23:04] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  771. # [23:06] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  772. # [23:10] * Quits: twisted` (~twisted@205.189.73.45) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  773. # [23:10] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@5355737B.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  774. # [23:11] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YYYMYCCCXXIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
  775. # [23:13] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  776. # [23:14] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  777. # [23:18] <zewt> <div style="display: block;" hidden>foo</div> is rendered? :|
  778. # [23:18] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  779. # [23:18] <zewt> lame
  780. # [23:18] <Ms2ger> style attributes override the UA style sheet
  781. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> Everything overrides the UA style sheet.
  782. # [23:19] <zewt> hidden should override display; that's the entire point, as far as I've ever used it
  783. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> Solution: put "[hidden] { display: none !important; }" in your stylesheet.
  784. # [23:19] <zewt> (to show/hide elements without having to stash and restore the original display style)
  785. # [23:19] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  786. # [23:20] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  787. # [23:20] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  788. # [23:21] <zewt> yeah, but doing that manually sort of partially defeats the idea of having it as a standard feature to begin with
  789. # [23:21] <TabAtkins> Kinda, yeah. Unfortunately, CSS doesn't define a notion of UA-important.
  790. # [23:22] <TabAtkins> Which we *should* do, because everyone that uses an explicit UA stylesheet implements it, and in the same way.
  791. # [23:22] <zewt> and it'd be especially annoying if some bits of a page ended up depending on the behavior of hidden *without* that CSS
  792. # [23:28] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  793. # [23:29] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  794. # [23:32] * Quits: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  795. # [23:33] * Joins: martndemus (~martndemu@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl)
  796. # [23:35] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GGZYYYKMDCCCLXXXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  797. # [23:39] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  798. # [23:40] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-25-244-221.dynamic.hinet.net)
  799. # [23:47] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.167.105) (Quit: nn)
  800. # [23:50] * Quits: Zauberfisch (Zauberfisc@venus.zauberfisch.at) (Quit: Leaving)
  801. # Session Close: Wed Dec 28 00:00:00 2011

The end :)