/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-01-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 19 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:05] <Hixie> dglazkov: neither as far as i can tell
  4. # [00:06] <dglazkov> Hixie: it's back up
  5. # [00:06] <dglazkov> it was a quantum fluctuation. Heisenberg applies.
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  9. # [00:12] <dglazkov> Hixie: did you see that parser thread? What's the best way to do this?
  10. # [00:14] <Hixie> saw it, haven't studied it yet
  11. # [00:15] <dglazkov> ok. I am available for lunches, breakfasts, and beverages as well.
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  14. # [00:16] <dglazkov> Hixie: also volunteer to do the dirty work (excludes murder and washing dishes).
  15. # [00:16] <jamesr_> dglazkov, afternoon tea?
  16. # [00:16] <jamesr_> dglazkov, bar mitzvahs?
  17. # [00:17] <dglazkov> you bet. My rendition of hava nagila will leave you breathless.
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  19. # [00:18] <dglazkov> or at least speechless.
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  35. # [01:24] <dglazkov> yikes! who killed html spec?!
  36. # [01:24] <dglazkov> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
  37. # [01:24] <divya> lolol
  38. # [01:24] <dglazkov> Hixie, I have to do my homework!!!
  39. # [01:25] <divya> "Never ascribe to political protest what can be adequately explained by incompetence"
  40. # [01:25] <divya> jgraham's words ring true
  41. # [01:25] <dglazkov> Hixie: I think divya just called you a dumbass
  42. # [01:25] <divya> >_>
  43. # [01:25] <dglazkov> :D
  44. # [01:26] <divya> Hixie: dglazkov is trying to shift blame so he doesnt do HOMEWORK
  45. # [01:26] <dglazkov> <_<
  46. # [01:28] <dglazkov> I worry that there's a new 404.html file there. Did multipage version finally die? MULTIPASS! MULTIPASS!
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  49. # [01:41] <kennyluck> Oh man Hixie, you are breaking the Web.
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  57. # [01:53] <Hixie> um... sopa blackout? yeah, let's say that's what happened.
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  64. # [02:07] <xtgyal> Hi, the W3C Validator @ validator.w3.org gives me an error stating <meta name="copyright" isn't registered, redirecting me to add it @ http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions
  65. # [02:08] <Init--WithStyle-> Hello everyone... i am trying to get some guidance on what tools to use for rendering vector graphics to an HTML canvas element... is this the right place to be asking?
  66. # [02:11] <TabAtkins> xtgyal: I suggest following the instructions.
  67. # [02:12] <TabAtkins> Init--WithStyle-: I just use SVG when I need vector graphics.
  68. # [02:12] <TabAtkins> But otherwise I hear paper.js is pretty cool?
  69. # [02:12] <xtgyal> the WHATWG wiki redirected me to here :-p
  70. # [02:12] <TabAtkins> Oh, so you need an account created.
  71. # [02:13] <TabAtkins> Hixie: ^^^
  72. # [02:13] <Init--WithStyle-> TabAtkins: I have an engine that I would like to use that is based on the html canvas element... i want to include some extreme zooming gameplay and so I need to either use LOD or vector graphics to provide for that level of zoom
  73. # [02:13] <Hixie> xtgyal: /msg me your e-mail address and i'll create one
  74. # [02:13] <Init--WithStyle-> Is there some way to get the performance benefits of a sprite, while still enabling the zoom-ability of vector graphics?
  75. # [02:13] <xtgyal> I'm not sure, if the issue is simply that that attribute is not listed, then yes, is that where the W3C validator is reading from?
  76. # [02:14] <Init--WithStyle-> some way to "draw" from a vector graphic at run time for multiple levels of detail?
  77. # [02:14] <xtgyal> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fnikki.dyndns.info%2Ftemp%2Ftemplate.htm&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0
  78. # [02:14] <TabAtkins> Init--WithStyle-: Drawing from SVG works in some browsers, though it also taints the canvas in some of them.
  79. # [02:14] <TabAtkins> Init--WithStyle-: Several canvas libraries support js-backed vector graphic syntaxes.
  80. # [02:15] <Init--WithStyle-> js-backed vector graphics syntaxes.. what do you mean exactly?
  81. # [02:16] <TabAtkins> Init--WithStyle-: Check out, for example, paper.js. Grab one of their examples and hit the "Source" button in the upper-right corner.
  82. # [02:17] <Init--WithStyle-> i'm looking at it right now... does it draw the whole thing every frame or only upon the shape changing?
  83. # [02:17] <TabAtkins> Other libraries often do something similar - you create some objects and maybe compose them in a scene, and the library handles drawing.
  84. # [02:17] <TabAtkins> Init--WithStyle-: I dunno.
  85. # [02:17] <TabAtkins> Never used one of them. Just pointing out options.
  86. # [02:17] <Init--WithStyle-> right... what i'm trying to avoid is having the CPU draw the entire shape on every frame
  87. # [02:17] <Init--WithStyle-> massive resource cost
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  89. # [02:18] <Init--WithStyle-> instead i would like to use vector processing to composite the shape on the first frame, and then load it as if it were a "sprite" or bitmap image from then on
  90. # [02:18] <Init--WithStyle-> basically like a single render pass into a bitmap image
  91. # [02:18] <TabAtkins> If you can draw it into a separate canvas, you can then draw that canvas into your main one.
  92. # [02:19] <xtgyal> Is the issue with the validator or simply it not being listed on the wiki?
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  94. # [02:22] <xtgyal> @Hixie how do I message you?
  95. # [02:23] <Init--WithStyle-> TabAtkins: do you know a forum where I could post a more elaborate example of what i'm saying and perhaps get some additional feedback?
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  106. # [03:06] <Init--WithStyle-> TabAtkins: I see what you mean about rendering to a separate canvas
  107. # [03:09] <Init--WithStyle-> could render an image via SVG, save it to the DOM as a png or such and then pass it into the canvas using drawimage() if I am understanding things correctly
  108. # [03:09] <Init--WithStyle-> then later on when the image isn't needed anymore, the client could just drop the png off the dom
  109. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> wow, hybi wg is rechartering
  110. # [03:24] <jamesr_> you know what www-style could use? more deep space nine fan fiction analogies
  111. # [03:28] <MikeSmith> well, that's true of all mailing lists, isn't it?
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  129. # [04:55] <Init--WithStyle-> Is it possible to convert a vector image into code that will draw that image automatically?
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  138. # [05:42] <MikeSmith> dglazkov: you were asking about when Hixie introduced transparent content models
  139. # [05:42] <MikeSmith> http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=466&to=467
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  144. # [05:49] <MikeSmith> hmm, actually it had to have been some time before that change
  145. # [05:49] <MikeSmith> that's just the point at which Hixie actually defined it
  146. # [05:49] <MikeSmith> but it seems he'd already been using that term before adding the actual definition
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  170. # [06:47] <Init--WithStyle-> when creating an SVG image in a browser, after the first frame, do modern browsers cache and then display that image as a bitmap instead of re-drawing it, provided there is no scaling/alpha changes going on?
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  186. # [08:24] <hsivonen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15614 sad SEO
  187. # [08:27] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: I guess that one is too subtle for me
  188. # [08:27] <MikeSmith> I don't know what the inferred complaint is...
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  190. # [08:49] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: that distribution global is a validation error
  191. # [08:50] <hsivonen> do SEO folks really think that the default mode of the Web is something other than global distribution?
  192. # [08:50] <MikeSmith> ah
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  194. # [08:51] <MikeSmith> holy god
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  196. # [08:51] <MikeSmith> people actually use that?
  197. # [08:52] <MikeSmith> nuts
  198. # [08:53] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I believe some people are using that
  199. # [08:53] <MikeSmith> who comes up with this stuff?
  200. # [08:53] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: yeah, I see it at http://www.metatags.org/meta_name_distribution and elsewhere
  201. # [08:54] <hsivonen> "ALMOST NO INFLUENCE"
  202. # [08:54] <MikeSmith> heh
  203. # [08:55] <Hixie> i'm looking forward to the day where we go through all these meta names that people registered, and kill off the ones that are wasting people's time
  204. # [08:56] <MikeSmith> well
  205. # [08:56] <Hixie> not as "unregistered non-conforming please see the wiki to add it" but as "non-conforming obsoloete do not use"
  206. # [08:56] <MikeSmith> that would be most of the list
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  215. # [09:23] <hsivonen> uh oh. dglazkov wants to modify the parsing algorithm
  216. # [09:23] <MikeSmith> yeah
  217. # [09:24] <MikeSmith> not an encouraging sign
  218. # [09:24] <MikeSmith> RED FLAG
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  232. # [09:46] <hsivonen> activities for today: document.close()
  233. # [09:47] <hsivonen> nope, document.write and document.close still aren't fully "done" :-(
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  240. # [09:56] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: that doesn't sound like fun at all
  241. # [09:57] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: it seems to me that these things aren't falling out of use. instead, people are coming up with new uses for them and push the boundaries
  242. # [09:57] <MikeSmith> yeah
  243. # [09:58] <MikeSmith> I remember seeing some specific case of that a few weeks back
  244. # [09:58] <MikeSmith> blog posting
  245. # [09:58] * MikeSmith tries to recall the details
  246. # [09:58] <MikeSmith> anyway, not an encouraging trend
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  265. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: heads-up lest I forget later: I had to also make a change to the validator site/script.js file to match the updates I made to the s.validator.nu URIs
  266. # [10:57] <MikeSmith> so if you don't deploy that directly from the repo sources, it will need to be updated on validator.nu however else you do it
  267. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> the change affects whether the parser option is auto-set to XML or not
  268. # [10:58] <MikeSmith> the isHtmlCompatiblePreset stuff
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  271. # [11:09] <MikeSmith> wow, people do actually use the "bring your own schema" feature of validator.nu
  272. # [11:09] <MikeSmith> http://bugzilla.validator.nu/show_bug.cgi?id=893
  273. # [11:09] <MikeSmith> at least one person
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  275. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> though he misunderstands where the bug is
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  277. # [11:10] <MikeSmith> oh
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  279. # [11:11] <MikeSmith> maybe it's because it's not evaluating the embedded schematron rules
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  286. # [11:28] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
  287. # [11:29] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: does jing handle embedded schematron rules?
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  324. # [13:10] * hsivonen gets nearer implementing innerHTML for Document for HTML documents but not XML documents
  325. # [13:10] <hsivonen> isn't it great how XML involves doing stuff like this twice
  326. # [13:17] <david_carlisle> hsivonen: the obvious solution is to get the whole world to switch to xml, and just do the xml one, then you only need do it once.
  327. # [13:17] <david_carlisle> or at least it seemed that way in 1998
  328. # [13:19] * Quits: rniwa (~rniwa@216.239.45.130) (Quit: rniwa)
  329. # [13:19] <jgraham> Say XML twice and Bang! david_carlisle appears :)
  330. # [13:20] <david_carlisle> jgraham: Actually I just (this week) switched our public facing documentation set away from xml to html(5)(+mathml+svg) (in the next release) then xml can be our private secret
  331. # [13:23] <hsivonen> david_carlisle: BTW, I'm starting to believe in versionless MathML. The existence of SVG 1.2 Tiny makes me say SVG 1.1 with a version number, still.
  332. # [13:25] <david_carlisle> hsivonen: Ah OK, if that belief results in you wanting any actual code or schema changes from me let me know....
  333. # [13:26] <hsivonen> david_carlisle: ok. I will need to reconsider my position on the schema.
  334. # [13:27] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: the DOMParser spec doesn't say what document URL the DOMParser-returned doc should have
  335. # [13:27] <Ms2ger> What should it have?
  336. # [13:27] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: I don't know. That's why I took a look at the spec.
  337. # [13:28] * hsivonen tried naively to use the spec as a guide for implementation rather than the other way round
  338. # [13:28] * Ms2ger tests
  339. # [13:29] <Ms2ger> And every time I have to do that, I remember how horrible this API is
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  341. # [13:29] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: the chrome-exposed API is even more horrible than the specced Web-exposed part...
  342. # [13:30] <hsivonen> the way it is implemented makes me sad
  343. # [13:31] <Ms2ger> Hm, is document.URL supposed to be implemented?
  344. # [13:32] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: FWIW, nsContentUtils::CreateDocument says I can't pass nsnull as the URL, so I guess the document URL can't be null...
  345. # [13:32] <Ms2ger> I was about to suggest null :/
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  347. # [13:32] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: not sure. documentURI might work better
  348. # [13:33] <Ms2ger> That returns null in Chrome and Opera
  349. # [13:33] <hsivonen> interesting
  350. # [13:34] <Ms2ger> 110 // Note: can't require that aDocumentURI/aBaseURI/aPrincipal be non-null,
  351. # [13:34] <Ms2ger> 111 // since at least one caller (XMLHttpRequest) doesn't have decent args to
  352. # [13:34] <Ms2ger> 112 // pass in.
  353. # [13:34] <Ms2ger> In NS_NewDOMDocument
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  355. # [13:34] <Ms2ger> So why doesn't nsContentUtils accept null?
  356. # [13:35] * Ms2ger tries to remember how XHR works
  357. # [13:35] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: I have no idea. I'm just reading the API docs in the .h
  358. # [13:35] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: XHR does pass non-null args these days
  359. # [13:36] * Ms2ger looks at bonsai
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  363. # [13:40] <Ms2ger> hsivonen, I see no reason to assume that the "must not be null" ever had a reason
  364. # [13:40] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: yay
  365. # [13:40] <hsivonen> next up: figuring out what to pass as the principal
  366. # [13:42] <hsivonen> ooh. I can just read existing source a few lines down
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  370. # [13:50] <Ms2ger> Hmm, it's only a month ago I touched that spec
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  373. # [13:58] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: so it looks like Gecko inherits the documnet URL from the DOMParser creator
  374. # [13:59] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  375. # [14:00] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: interesting that the content type isn't compared ASCII case-sensitively
  376. # [14:02] <hsivonen> I'm not complaining. just surprised.
  377. # [14:03] <Ms2ger> Er
  378. # [14:03] <Ms2ger> It is case-sensitive, isn't it?
  379. # [14:04] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: yeah. typo above. I meant *in*sensitively
  380. # [14:05] <Ms2ger> Good
  381. # [14:05] <Ms2ger> Your comments keep making me doubt my sanity :)
  382. # [14:05] <hsivonen> I almost wrote a bug out of logic and was about to make it ASCII case-insensitive like this kind of things usually are
  383. # [14:05] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: sorry
  384. # [14:05] <Ms2ger> Now, so do my own comments
  385. # [14:06] <Ms2ger> So maybe it's not your fault :)
  386. # [14:07] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: are you OK with expanding the DOMParser spec with HTML support when content type is text/html?
  387. # [14:07] <Ms2ger> I guess
  388. # [14:08] <hsivonen> ok. only for the Web-exposed part
  389. # [14:08] <hsivonen> I have no intention of supporting HTML in the methods we only expose to Firefox extensions
  390. # [14:09] <Ms2ger> Hrm, I want a assert_instanceof that gives less obscure error messages
  391. # [14:09] <Ms2ger> jgraham, ^
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  394. # [14:11] <Ms2ger> Interesting how we return an SVGDocument even if we hit a parse error
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  397. # [14:13] <Ms2ger> Updated the spec
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  399. # [14:16] <Ms2ger> Oh, and I wouldn't mind at all if you made DOMParser use nsCString for the content type ;)
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  410. # [14:46] <jgraham> Ms2ger: Less obscure than what?
  411. # [14:46] <Ms2ger> jgraham, "got false expected true"
  412. # [14:47] <jgraham> Less onscure than assert_true(foo instanceof bar) then?
  413. # [14:47] <jgraham> *obscure
  414. # [14:47] <jgraham> Well that sounds possible
  415. # [14:48] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  416. # [14:48] <jgraham> Although istanceof can be evil in multiple window situations I guess it is fair enough if you use it explicitly
  417. # [14:49] <Ms2ger> Maybe have it take an explicit window argument to make the point?
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  419. # [14:51] <jgraham> Not sure how that would work
  420. # [14:52] <Ms2ger> assert_instanceof(foo, window, "DOMParser")
  421. # [14:52] <jgraham> But the rightmost argument need not be a property of window directly
  422. # [14:52] <Ms2ger> Oh?
  423. # [14:52] <jgraham> Although it typically is for DOM cases
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  443. # [15:37] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: I think DOMParser.parseFromString("...", "text/html"); should always set the charset of the returned document to UTF-8 regardless of <meta>s
  444. # [15:37] <hsivonen> to avoid complexity
  445. # [15:37] <hsivonen> Ms2ger: ok?
  446. # [15:37] <Ms2ger> Makes sense to me
  447. # [15:37] <hsivonen> good
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  497. # [17:52] <MikeSmith> god there is such a huge cost to formal process
  498. # [17:52] <MikeSmith> you create a formal decision policy with good intentions
  499. # [17:53] <MikeSmith> and it becomes a frankenstein monster
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  504. # [18:03] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  505. # [18:04] <dglazkov> hsivonen, MikeSmith: tell me more!
  506. # [18:05] <MikeSmith> dglazkov: ask Adam Barth how much he loves implementing parser changes
  507. # [18:06] <dglazkov> well, this time we'll be doing it for him :)
  508. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> also, as far as when transparent content models first appeared, somewhere around http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=466&to=467
  509. # [18:06] <dglazkov> MikeSmith: thanks!
  510. # [18:06] <MikeSmith> dglazkov: cool, so you will also be taking over ownership of the parser code and fixing all the bugs that come along!
  511. # [18:07] <dglazkov> MikeSmith: of course not! we'll just drop the code and run like a wind :P
  512. # [18:07] <MikeSmith> heh
  513. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> seriously though, you are going to be facing an uphill battle if you need to add more stuff that requires adoption-agency behavior and such
  514. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> just you guys may be willing to implement in your parser code does not mean others will
  515. # [18:08] <MikeSmith> *just because you guys
  516. # [18:09] <dglazkov> but what would be another way of getting the same result?
  517. # [18:09] <MikeSmith> a spec that does not require that result
  518. # [18:09] <dglazkov> insertion points are critical in shadow DOM, and having quirky rules about where they may and may not go seems ... deficient.
  519. # [18:09] <MikeSmith> I hear what you are saying
  520. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> just trying to give you a heads-up
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  522. # [18:10] <MikeSmith> but maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic
  523. # [18:12] <dglazkov> hey, I've been rolling this Web components rock uphill for 2 years now, what's one more uphill battle? :)
  524. # [18:12] <dglazkov> would love to hear any feedback on what could be done though
  525. # [18:12] <MikeSmith> that rock has being rolled uphill for longer than 2 years now
  526. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> or a similar rock at least
  527. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> ask Jonas Sicking
  528. # [18:13] <dglazkov> yup
  529. # [18:13] <MikeSmith> it is nice to be getting closer
  530. # [18:13] <smaug____> I thought we were quite close at some point (with XBL2)
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  533. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> I think Jonas several times had set aside time for implementing XBL2 but always ended up getting pulled away to work on other things
  534. # [18:15] <smaug____> yup
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  536. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> and Indexed DB came up somewhere along the line
  537. # [18:15] <dglazkov> smaug____: in this particular case, XBL2 needs the same changes to parser. Shadow DOM spec is basically an extraction of XBL2's shadow DOM functionality.
  538. # [18:15] <smaug____> (or he is just lazy :p )
  539. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> well
  540. # [18:16] <MikeSmith> we know Jonas ain't lazy
  541. # [18:17] <dglazkov> smaug____: and I honestly don't want to go on the same merry-go-round about XBL2 and why it's not the right spec. I wrote about it, I talked about it, and demonstrated clearly it's not the right thing. Zbarsky agreed with me, Sicking agreed with me, Deakin agreed with me. Why keep bringing it up?
  542. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> dglazkov: I don't think anybody was bringing it up to suggest we go back to that
  543. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> just in the context of the history
  544. # [18:17] <MikeSmith> is all
  545. # [18:18] <dglazkov> MikeSmith: ok :)
  546. # [18:18] <smaug____> just because I'm not sure (yet) web components / shadow DOM is the right thing either
  547. # [18:18] * smaug____ needs to find some time to file bugs
  548. # [18:18] <smaug____> the event handling certainly needs changes
  549. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> dglazkov: I definitely don't mean to discourage you
  550. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> quite the opposite
  551. # [18:19] <MikeSmith> please keep doing what you're doing :)
  552. # [18:19] <dglazkov> MikeSmith: thanks! :)
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  554. # [18:20] <dglazkov> smaug____: please do! otherwise we'll keep having ivory tower discussions about philosophical uncertainty of the future. We gotta start moving.
  555. # [18:24] <smaug____> dglazkov: btw, I don't what to discourage you. I just think we need to be very careful when adding new major APIs to the web
  556. # [18:24] <dglazkov> smaug____: I agree. And I know you have expertise. And I want some of that! :)
  557. # [18:24] <smaug____> new APIs are proposed probably every month, and luckily lots of them aren't "accepted", at least not immediately
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  561. # [18:26] <smaug____> (scary, someone thinks I have some expertise)
  562. # [18:27] <dglazkov> well, you talk like you do! :P
  563. # [18:27] <smaug____> I've been hacking browsers only 9 years
  564. # [18:27] <dglazkov> actually, I just recently changed event dispatch section and would appreciate a closer look.
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  566. # [18:28] <dglazkov> that's close to a 100 in internet years.
  567. # [18:28] <dglazkov> you're basically a great grandpa of the browsers.
  568. # [18:28] <Ms2ger> Yeah, even Glazman has been around for only 12 years
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  570. # [18:29] <smaug____> dglazkov: anyway, I'll try to give more feedback...hmm...during next week.
  571. # [18:29] <smaug____> I'll meet Boris et al
  572. # [18:29] <dglazkov> my first (well, technically second) WebKit commit was just over 3 years ago. Though I was a Web developer since 1995 prior to that
  573. # [18:30] <dglazkov> smaug____: cool! you coming to boston?
  574. # [18:30] <Ms2ger> Paris
  575. # [18:30] <smaug____> DOm stuff in Paris
  576. # [18:30] <smaug____> DOM
  577. # [18:30] <dglazkov> in Paris, it's Dom Pérignon
  578. # [18:31] <dglazkov> it's a non-standard extension.
  579. # [18:32] <dglazkov> smaug____: let me know if you want me to VC in or something like that.
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  622. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> Go, irccloud
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  624. # [18:52] <smaug____> someone is really using irccloud o_O
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  675. # [20:23] <bga> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/faster-fourier-transforms-0118.html
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  690. # [20:39] * Philip` wonders if the people doing distributed computation like Folding@home have considered purchasing ads from an ad network that lets them run arbitrary scripts, so they can use the CPUs of a huge number of web users for an extremely low cost
  691. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> That's an extremely good idea.
  692. # [20:40] <Ms2ger> People were doing such a thing when workers were first implemented, but on their own sites
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  698. # [20:51] <Philip`> Ms2ger: Yeah, the problem there is the lack of scalability - you can't easily get more visitors to your own site, whereas using an ad network gives you EC2-style cloud computing (but probably much cheaper) since the computing power is proportional to your spending and is effectively limitless
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  701. # [20:54] <Philip`> Apparently ads are often on the order of $1 per 1000 views, and if people spend maybe 10 seconds on a page then you get 3 hours of viewing for $1
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  704. # [20:56] <Philip`> and each visitor probably has something like 2GHz dual-core, which is probably similar CPU to an EC2 high-CPU medium instance
  705. # [20:56] <Philip`> which is, um, about $0.17/hour
  706. # [20:56] <Philip`> (on current EC2 prices)
  707. # [20:57] <Philip`> so maybe it's not very economical :-(
  708. # [20:57] <Philip`> although you could exploit the user's GPU too
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  738. # [22:08] <bga> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tErVvempcCU
  739. # [22:13] * Joins: erlehmann (~erlehmann@i59F6DA62.versanet.de)
  740. # [22:13] <erlehmann> oh funny
  741. # [22:13] <erlehmann> i has a shell script irc client :3
  742. # [22:15] <erlehmann> https://github.com/erlehmann/uii/blob/master/uii
  743. # [22:16] <erlehmann> but it still needs query support
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  747. # [22:29] <jamesr_> Philip`, i've seen pages that spin up worker scripts to do bitcoin mining
  748. # [22:29] <jamesr_> i don't think many ad networks let you run arbitrary script, though
  749. # [22:29] <jamesr_> that'd be a terrible idea
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  758. # [22:47] <erlehmann> i can attest to the fact that ad networks are a terrible idea
  759. # [22:47] <erlehmann> i know a big german site that hangs occasionally because the ad loading was blocking, multiple document.writes argl
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  765. # [22:56] <Philip`> jamesr_: I was thinking of e.g. http://seclab.stanford.edu/websec/csrf/csrf.pdf which apparently used ad networks to run scripts ("submitting forms, requesting images, and issuing XMLHttpRequests") on random users' machines
  766. # [23:00] <erlehmann> the internet, infinite possibilities!
  767. # [23:00] * eric_carlson is now known as ericc|away
  768. # [23:05] <bga> heh botnet
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  775. # [23:15] <erlehmann> dat botnet
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  787. # [23:40] <erlehmann> test :3
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  793. # [23:57] <bga> passed
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  796. # Session Close: Fri Jan 20 00:00:00 2012

The end :)