/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-02-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 02 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  44. # [02:04] <Hixie> hm, no abarth
  45. # [02:04] <Hixie> aha, he's in #webkit
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  150. # [08:24] <MikeSmith> Hixie: http://www.whatwg.org/issues/data.html looks borked
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  153. # [08:25] <MikeSmith> oh
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  320. # [17:08] <gsnedders> Anyone around that understands __proto__ in SM?
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  324. # [17:18] <gsnedders> Basically, anyone know what Object.prototype.__proto__ does?
  325. # [17:19] <gsnedders> I'm confused looking over the thread in es-discuss.
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  345. # [18:07] <asmodai> Mmm
  346. # [18:07] <asmodai> I wonder why Opera mobile does not allow fingerpress on URL to have a copy URL popup option.
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  352. # [18:20] <gsnedders> asmodai: What OS?
  353. # [18:21] <asmodai> Android 3
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  355. # [18:21] <asmodai> Only got a Save As and Copy Text option when long pressing an URL leading to an apk (nightly firefox in this case)
  356. # [18:24] <gsnedders> Oh, you mean on a link?
  357. # [18:25] <asmodai> Aye
  358. # [18:26] <asmodai> Many cases where you might want to drop an URL into an evernote note or something like that
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  362. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> Argh, Transforms are *so* messed up.
  363. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> I suspect largely because nobody ever finished the spec, but everyone implemented anyway.
  364. # [18:43] <Ms2ger> Sounds like something to blame Apple for
  365. # [18:43] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins_, :)
  366. # [18:44] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@217.167.142.190)
  367. # [18:44] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins_, on the other hand, it might get interesting if you resolved ems for computed value but not percentages . . .
  368. # [18:44] * AryehGregor tries to think of an interesting case
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  370. # [18:44] <AryehGregor> It's a corner case anyway, since there's no reason for anyone to specify transform: inherit, ever.
  371. # [18:45] <AryehGregor> We could probably change it so ems are resolved and no one would notice.
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  376. # [18:49] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, I think a well-written css3-box would be really nice, fwiw
  377. # [18:50] * AryehGregor has never looked at css3-box
  378. # [18:50] <Ms2ger> Hey, it doesn't have a warning
  379. # [18:50] <Ms2ger> TabAtkins?
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  384. # [18:52] <bga> w3c reminds me idef more and more
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  389. # [18:57] <annevk> back
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  391. # [18:57] <annevk> jetlagged
  392. # [18:57] <TabAtkins_> Ms2ger: Yes?
  393. # [18:58] <TabAtkins_> Oh, I see.
  394. # [18:58] <TabAtkins_> Huh, I wonder how that escaped my warning crusade.
  395. # [18:58] <hober> annevk: welcome back!
  396. # [18:59] <annevk> inbox >4000
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  398. # [18:59] <Ms2ger> annevk, multipage HTML is broken
  399. # [18:59] <annevk> yeah, I read about that
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  401. # [18:59] <annevk> is foolip away too?
  402. # [18:59] <annevk> or just didn't have the time
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  405. # [19:06] <TabAtkins_> AryehGregor: Changing it to resolve ems would be great, yes.
  406. # [19:07] * Joins: tomasf (~tomasf@static-88.131.62.36.addr.tdcsong.se)
  407. # [19:13] <annevk> MikeSmith: resolved bugs still don't go to www-dom I think
  408. # [19:13] <annevk> MikeSmith: the timeout given in my email (backed up by Art) has long since passed
  409. # [19:13] <annevk> MikeSmith: so I think we can go ahead with that now
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  414. # [19:19] <annevk> Velmont: hey, have you ever played with gzip and XHR?
  415. # [19:20] <annevk> Velmont: should work fine no?
  416. # [19:20] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger or some Mozilla person: do reftests detect differences that aren't painted onto the screen? Like, they're outside the initial viewport?
  417. # [19:20] <Ms2ger> Don't think so
  418. # [19:20] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@71.109-247-163.customer.lyse.net)
  419. # [19:21] <AryehGregor> I just found a reftest that seems to want to say matrix3d(1,0,0,0, 0,2,0,0, 0,0,3,0, 4,5,6,1) is the same as scale3d(1,2,3) translate3d(4px,5px,6px), which of course it's not, but the transformed div has no background and the text is off-screen, so I guess it's not surprising that it passes anyway.
  420. # [19:21] <annevk> "Responses must have the content-encodings automatically decoded."
  421. # [19:21] <annevk> so that should work fine
  422. # [19:22] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  423. # [19:24] <AryehGregor> . . . also, I just found a test that's precisely identical to its ref.
  424. # [19:24] <Ms2ger> <3
  425. # [19:24] <AryehGregor> I guess I should file bugs.
  426. # [19:24] * estellevw_ is now known as estellevw
  427. # [19:24] <Ms2ger> Checked for silly things like BOMs?
  428. # [19:25] <AryehGregor> diff -u returned nothing.
  429. # [19:25] <Ms2ger> A bug it is, then, I guess
  430. # [19:25] <AryehGregor> diff -u layout/reftests/transform-3d/overflow-hidden-1{a,-ref}.html
  431. # [19:25] * AryehGregor reports
  432. # [19:25] <Ms2ger> Hah
  433. # [19:25] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
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  442. # [19:59] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, if I'm filing a bug that was introduced by another bug, the new bug I file should depend on the old bug, right? Not block it?
  443. # [20:00] * AryehGregor always gets them confused
  444. # [20:00] <Hixie> MikeSmith: wfm now
  445. # [20:00] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, block
  446. # [20:00] <AryehGregor> Okay.
  447. # [20:03] <Hixie> anyone have IE handy?
  448. # [20:03] <AryehGregor> Hixie, yes.
  449. # [20:03] * AryehGregor is using Windows 8 Developer Preview in VirtualBox with IE10
  450. # [20:04] <AryehGregor> No need for licensing fees.
  451. # [20:04] <Hixie> can you load http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/ and hit the download link
  452. # [20:04] <AryehGregor> Then what?
  453. # [20:04] <Hixie> and then hit set 0, check that option 0 is selected, then hit set 1, check that option 1 is selected, and then hit set null, and see what happens?
  454. # [20:05] <AryehGregor> When I hit "set 0", option 0 is selected. Then when I hit "set 1", option 1 is selected. Then when I hit "set null", option 0 is selected again.
  455. # [20:05] <AryehGregor> In IE10 Developer Preview.
  456. # [20:05] <Hixie> awesome, thanks
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  458. # [20:05] <Hixie> and nothing is selected for set 2, right?
  459. # [20:05] <AryehGregor> Right.
  460. # [20:05] <Hixie> ok so the guy reporting this bug was just wrong, cool
  461. # [20:05] <Hixie> thanks
  462. # [20:06] <Hixie> it's so cool the way these days the specs all line up and actually describe obscure edge cases interoperably
  463. # [20:07] <AryehGregor> Well, the HTML/DOM type of specs, at least . . . CSS not so much, as I'm finding.
  464. # [20:07] <Hixie> :-(
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  468. # [20:10] <TabAtkins_> Dude, you're explicitly dealing with specs that are shitty because they got dropped.
  469. # [20:10] <TabAtkins_> Stop generalizing, please. >_<
  470. # [20:10] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  471. # [20:10] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins_, no, I definitely mean all CSS specs. At least all the ones to do with layout. Parsing and the cascade seems fine. But layout is horribly vague. It needs to be redefined algorithmically using precise hyperlinked definitions.
  472. # [20:11] <AryehGregor> We were just talking about how terms like "the element's box" are ambiguous in tons of cases.
  473. # [20:11] <annevk> oh hey Hixie, until when are you around?
  474. # [20:11] <TabAtkins_> Mm, that's true.
  475. # [20:11] <Hixie> woot, anne has returned!
  476. # [20:12] <Hixie> annevk: i'm at home with some virus or something
  477. # [20:12] <annevk> Hixie: planning on looking into that multipage issue, but food is getting near
  478. # [20:12] <Hixie> annevk: so on and off depending on when i'm feeling better and when i'm out cold in bed
  479. # [20:12] <TabAtkins_> A big problem there is that no one has written Box yet, and 2.1 is still overly vague.
  480. # [20:12] <annevk> Hixie: oh, good luck with that
  481. # [20:12] <Hixie> i'll be fine
  482. # [20:12] <annevk> Hixie: will take a look a little later (still going through email) and ping you again
  483. # [20:12] <AryehGregor> A big problem is that tons of different people are all writing different specs to bolt on features in different places and there's very little thought given to how they interact, because nothing is being done in a unified fashion.
  484. # [20:12] <Hixie> annevk: cool
  485. # [20:13] <Hixie> annevk: it looks like your end isn't fetching the spec
  486. # [20:13] <Hixie> annevk: at least, i don't get any hits for the spec when i ping your end
  487. # [20:13] <annevk> I use svn update
  488. # [20:13] <Hixie> oh
  489. # [20:13] <Hixie> hm
  490. # [20:13] <Hixie> might be my fault then
  491. # [20:13] <Hixie> maybe i'm no longer updating something
  492. # [20:13] <Hixie> let me check
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  495. # [20:14] <Hixie> nope, looks like the repo is up to date
  496. # [20:14] <Hixie> both complete.html and index (though tehy're identical now of course)
  497. # [20:15] <Hixie> man, i really need to add a mail filter to send anything matching (to:public-webapps subject:charter) to trash
  498. # [20:16] <annevk> hmm a week out of date
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  502. # [20:20] <annevk> oh, dreamhost was hacked, had to reset my password
  503. # [20:20] <annevk> they were hacked jan 21... spec stopped updating jan 24
  504. # [20:20] <annevk> hmm
  505. # [20:23] <Hixie> yeah i don't think the password change would have any effect
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  508. # [20:27] <annevk> and I'm in
  509. # [20:30] <annevk> Hixie: fixed
  510. # [20:31] <Hixie> what was wrong?
  511. # [20:31] <annevk> Hixie: same problem as last time, svn cleanup was required
  512. # [20:31] <Hixie> weird
  513. # [20:31] <annevk> I put it in the cgi script now
  514. # [20:31] <Hixie> heh
  515. # [20:31] <annevk> not sure if that'll help
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  518. # [20:33] <Hixie> annevk: any idea what's causing svn cleanup to be needed?
  519. # [20:34] <annevk> svn being locked while checking out maybe? not sure if that's possible, but it complaints about locking
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  521. # [20:34] <Hixie> weird
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  524. # [20:39] <Ms2ger> This is actually what *specs* do?
  525. # [20:39] <annevk> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12539#c11 is still not fixed
  526. # [20:39] <annevk> any idea jgraham ?
  527. # [20:40] <Ms2ger> Apparently the web wants isSameNode :(
  528. # [20:40] <Ms2ger> And GWT in particular
  529. # [20:41] <Ms2ger> annevk, ^
  530. # [20:42] <annevk> aah
  531. # [20:42] <annevk> sad
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  538. # [21:05] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  539. # [21:11] <annevk> IE is shipping BlobBuilder?
  540. # [21:11] <annevk> I thought we were going to kill that? :(
  541. # [21:13] <AryehGregor> WTF -- transform-origin parses differently in standards and quirks mode?
  542. # [21:13] <AryehGregor> Interoperably?
  543. # [21:15] <AryehGregor> transform-origin: 100 100 is interpreted as transform-origin: 100px 100px in quirks mode, but not standards mode . . .
  544. # [21:15] <AryehGregor> Is this an across-the-board difference in CSS parsing? If so, is it specced somewhere?
  545. # [21:15] <AryehGregor> TabAtkins, ^^
  546. # [21:15] <Philip`> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Mozilla_Quirks_Mode_Behavior ?
  547. # [21:15] <Philip`> ("The CSS parser interprets unitless numbers as px")
  548. # [21:16] <Philip`> (Oh, I misread "specced" as "documented")
  549. # [21:16] <AryehGregor> Seems interoperable.
  550. # [21:17] <AryehGregor> This should probably be in Values and Units.
  551. # [21:17] <Ms2ger> Oh, and I think we parse color: 000000 in quirks
  552. # [21:17] <Ms2ger> Quirks mode doesn't exist in CSS, though
  553. # [21:18] <AryehGregor> So it's only for styles that are inline in an HTML document?
  554. # [21:18] <bga> css compressors will be happy to hear this
  555. # [21:19] <bga> Ms2ger and color: fff too?
  556. # [21:19] <Ms2ger> Dunno
  557. # [21:19] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, is it? I'm not sure
  558. # [21:19] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@cm-84.215.59.50.getinternet.no)
  559. # [21:19] * AryehGregor also doesn't
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  561. # [21:21] <AryehGregor> data:text/html,<div style="background:00ff00; height:100;width:100"> displays a green box in IE/Chrome/Opera, but not Firefox.
  562. # [21:22] <Ms2ger> Hmm, attributes may go through another path
  563. # [21:23] <AryehGregor> Awesome.
  564. # [21:29] <annevk> I think they should all go through the same path
  565. # [21:29] <annevk> and I think we should define it
  566. # [21:32] * AryehGregor just sent mail to www-style
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  568. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> Hmm, ParseStyleAttribute does seem to check for quirks mode
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  570. # [21:37] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  571. # [21:38] <Ms2ger> Seems like this should work...
  572. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> Aha
  573. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> AryehGregor, doesn't work for compound properties; color and background-color work
  574. # [21:41] <AryehGregor> Nice.
  575. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> Ah, and bz beat me to it
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  586. # [21:57] <annevk> so data URL rules when fetching data URLs through an HTTP API
  587. # [21:57] <annevk> what would be the best place?
  588. # [21:57] <annevk> XMLHttpRequest for now?
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  595. # [22:18] <bga> gwt users blame Ms2ger that he deleted isSameNode
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  597. # [22:20] <annevk> I wonder why GWT uses isSameNode
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  605. # [22:42] <annevk> so what's HTTP/2.0?
  606. # [22:42] <annevk> is it intended to be the new name for SPDY?
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  617. # [23:00] <jgraham> I presume HTTP/2.0 will be where they take SPDY, make some backward-incompatible changes, and leave browsers with 3 protocols to implement
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  619. # [23:05] <annevk> reminiscent of Kafka
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  622. # [23:08] <annevk> <2400
  623. # [23:08] <annevk> (there was a lot of spam :( )
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  627. # [23:12] <hober> jgraham: sounds familiar...
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  633. # [23:18] <gsnedders> jgraham: I'm not sure SPDY has any legacy which prevents it from being dropped, though.
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  635. # [23:18] <annevk> why is http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-websec-origin not linked to http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-abarth-origin ?
  636. # [23:19] <gsnedders> jgraham: Also Firefox already supports at least four already: HTTP, FTP, SPDY, and Gopher.
  637. # [23:19] <hober> annevk: and both should really point to http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6454
  638. # [23:19] <abarth> annevk: dunno. I think we'd need to ask someone at the IETF to add the links
  639. # [23:20] <annevk> hober: yeah, the former does, but I found the latter via Google :/
  640. # [23:20] <hober> annevk abarth: of course the ietf have always been so good about this sort of thing</sarcasm>
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  642. # [23:21] <abarth> annevk: I can update the draft with a link if all else fails
  643. # [23:22] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com)
  644. # [23:23] <annevk> abarth: I guess I'll ask Julian if I remember
  645. # [23:28] <jgraham> gsnedders: I don't think that FTP or Gopher are functionally equivalent to HTTP. I mean Opera support SMTP but it's hardly comparable
  646. # [23:30] * Quits: snowfox (~benschaaf@50-77-199-197-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: snowfox)
  647. # [23:31] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  648. # [23:31] <annevk> oh, by donating you become an EFF member?
  649. # [23:32] <annevk> I wonder if I could have avoided that somehow
  650. # [23:34] <annevk> should we add something to http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/MetaExtensions about emailing whatwg@whatwg.org for community review?
  651. # [23:34] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  652. # [23:34] <annevk> as optional step of course
  653. # [23:35] * gavin_ is now known as gavin
  654. # [23:36] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@17.212.152.13)
  655. # [23:41] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  656. # [23:43] <annevk> only two sleeping spammers on the wiki since I left
  657. # [23:43] <annevk> good times
  658. # [23:43] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  659. # [23:43] <asmodai> Oh hey, it's anne!
  660. # [23:45] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  661. # [23:46] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  662. # [23:46] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.34.165) (Quit: Bye!)
  663. # [23:47] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.34.165)
  664. # [23:47] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.34.165) (Client Quit)
  665. # [23:48] <annevk> "Obsolescence notices on old specifications, again" ooh
  666. # [23:49] * Joins: Druide__ (~Druid@p5B13643B.dip.t-dialin.net)
  667. # [23:51] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@193-64-22-185-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  668. # [23:54] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@2620:101:8003:200:226:bbff:fe05:3fe1) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  669. # [23:56] <annevk> ooh, there's a subthread on www-archive with the same name
  670. # [23:56] <annevk> and no popcorn available
  671. # [23:57] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  672. # Session Close: Fri Feb 03 00:00:00 2012

The end :)