/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-02-27 / end

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  44. # [02:51] <MikeSmith> http://www.google.com/patents/US8074083 and http://www.google.com/patents/US20090077379 are interesting
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  168. # [05:56] <Hixie> http://labs.dinahmoe.com/plink/#whatwg is impressive
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  174. # [06:15] <mhausenblas> he he, playing with MikeSmith plink - reminds me of Beverly Hills Cop, thanks Hixie :P
  175. # [06:15] <MikeSmith> heh
  176. # [06:15] <MikeSmith> fun stuff
  177. # [06:15] <mhausenblas> yey
  178. # [06:15] <mhausenblas> hard for me to play with track pad though
  179. # [06:15] <mhausenblas> tried Axel F but failed :D
  180. # [06:16] <mhausenblas> oh oh, now we're screwed :P
  181. # [06:21] <MikeSmith> man I could gonna get carpal tunnel playing this with trackpad on my laptop
  182. # [06:22] <Hixie> this is something that would really benefit from a touch screen interface
  183. # [06:22] <mhausenblas> indeed
  184. # [06:23] <mhausenblas> can one record the stuff?
  185. # [06:23] <mhausenblas> really awesome, btw
  186. # [06:23] <Hixie> you'd have to just use something that can record audio output, i think
  187. # [06:24] <mhausenblas> right
  188. # [06:24] <mhausenblas> but nothing built-in, I'd have overlooked, no?
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  190. # [06:25] <Hixie> gotta go
  191. # [06:25] <Hixie> it was fun though
  192. # [06:25] * mhausenblas grabbing some coffee - TTYL
  193. # [06:25] <mhausenblas> yep!
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  213. # [07:33] <mhausenblas> anyone got a sorta complete list of HTML media types (need it for https://github.com/mhausenblas/Racoon)?
  214. # [07:33] * mhausenblas knows that he supposed to use BeautifulSoup, yes, thank you - I have my reasons, for now :)
  215. # [07:34] <mhausenblas> MikeSmith maybe?
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  217. # [07:35] <mhausenblas> hmmm http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/iana.html doesn't look too bad?
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  219. # [07:38] <MikeSmith> mhausenblas: yeah, I guess that's what you need
  220. # [07:38] <mhausenblas> ta, MikeSmith
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  226. # [08:03] <asmodai> So I see a new Opera mobile release with "improve tab session restore". I hope one of my issues was responsible for that. :D
  227. # [08:03] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
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  235. # [08:18] <annevk> can anyone take a look at the latest blog unapproved comment and approve/mark it as spam?
  236. # [08:18] * annevk has a hard time deciding
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  240. # [08:22] <niloy_> which blog, can I read?
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  242. # [08:24] <annevk> the blgo is http://blog.whatwg.org/
  243. # [08:24] <annevk> but you need admin access to read the comment
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  246. # [08:31] <hsivonen> hmm. no WebGL for Symbian in Opera Mobile. Is this because of API unavailability on Symbian or because not investing in a burning platform fully anymore?
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  248. # [08:32] <hsivonen> s//of/
  249. # [08:34] <niloy_> maybe coz Symbian run on low end nokia mobiles
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  251. # [08:36] <hsivonen> niloy_: the flagship before the current flagship ran Symbian
  252. # [08:36] <hsivonen> niloy_: unless you are making fun of Nokia and implying their high end is really low end
  253. # [08:37] <niloy_> I think the flagship before the current was Maemo/Meego :)
  254. # [08:37] <hsivonen> niloy_: they didn't treat N900 as their flagship. Not treating N900 as their flagship (and then N9) pretty much sums up what went wrong at Nokia.
  255. # [08:38] <niloy_> yes as a N900 owner, I completely agree with you
  256. # [08:39] <hsivonen> I sold away my Nokia 770 and N800 and moved to Android in the post-Elopocalyptic world
  257. # [08:40] <niloy_> hehe, but Android is nothing like N900, Android is too Google-centric
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  259. # [08:42] <niloy_> hsivonen, you should try N9, reviews are pretty good
  260. # [08:42] <hsivonen> cool. Opera Mobile has made the splash screen high-res on Galaxy Nexus
  261. # [08:43] <hsivonen> niloy_: I tried it and concluded it would have been an awesome product if its software ecosystem had had a future.
  262. # [08:43] <hsivonen> niloy_: I want a phone that gets a MoCo-supported Firefox build
  263. # [08:44] <hsivonen> niloy_: so I bought a Galaxy Nexus instead of N9
  264. # [08:44] <niloy_> ohkay
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  266. # [08:48] <hsivonen> hmm. WebGL perf in Opera Mobile on Android is about as unimpressive as Fennec's perf. Maybe Opera does readbacks from the GPU, too?
  267. # [08:49] <hsivonen> btw, is this the first time Opera ships a given Presto release on mobile before desktop?
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  269. # [08:53] <zcorpan> no
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  272. # [08:54] <hsivonen> zcorpan: ok. recently, it has seemed that Mobile was consistently a release behind desktop
  273. # [08:58] <hsivonen> in the DRM threads, dbaron's questions are unanswered as well as most of my questions...
  274. # [08:59] <zcorpan> iirc 2.2 shipped in mobile 9.7 before desktop 10.
  275. # [08:59] <annevk> zcorpan: in your grep, are you not missing matching for [1] or does \S* do that?
  276. # [08:59] <zcorpan> \S* does that
  277. # [08:59] <hsivonen> zcorpan: was 9.7 only available to Windows Mobile bundling partners or something?
  278. # [08:59] <zcorpan> hsivonen: dunno
  279. # [09:00] <hsivonen> I don't remember such a thing as 9.7 ever shipping on Symbian as a user-installable product
  280. # [09:00] <hsivonen> actually: did any 9.x release ship as user-installable on Symbian
  281. # [09:00] <zcorpan> maybe it was renamed to 10 after desktop had shipped
  282. # [09:00] <hsivonen> or did it go from 8.5 to 10?
  283. # [09:00] * zcorpan doesn't know much about mobile releases
  284. # [09:01] <hsivonen> 8.5 was the latest Symbian release for a very, very long time after 9 had shipped on desktop
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  286. # [09:02] <hsivonen> unfortunately, after all the waiting, it turned out that 10 required so much more RAM than 8.5 that it wasn't really usable for most stuff on my Symbian phone
  287. # [09:02] <hsivonen> so I ended up using it only for W3C archives and banking
  288. # [09:02] <hsivonen> by the time 10 shipped, I had migrated to Mini for all other browsing on Symbian
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  322. # [10:20] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  329. # [10:28] <woef> Sorry bout this, but might've missed the previous answer.
  330. # [10:28] <woef> I remember reading about a <template> (or was it <component> tag)
  331. # [10:29] <woef> Can't find it on Google though.
  332. # [10:29] <woef> Can't seem to locate it on the whatwg page either.
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  337. # [10:37] <heycam> woef, http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/explainer/index.html
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  355. # [11:09] <woef> heycam: awesome! Thanks :)
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  358. # [11:11] <annevk> leave my @opera.com address at hotel, get email at @gmail.com
  359. # [11:11] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@125.25.236.13.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
  360. # [11:11] <annevk> I wonder what is going on there...
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  378. # [11:42] <zcorpan> so i guess opera mobile is first to ship getUserMedia?
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  380. # [11:50] <zcorpan> Native HTML5: http://www.openwebdevice.com/
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  399. # [12:25] <bga> http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/17396/front-end-javascript-engineer-qmetric?a=kyirGaA
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  432. # [13:48] <kennyluck> Can someone remind me what "treat as" means in CSS? Is it a used-value stage effect?
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  487. # [15:24] <bga> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/2971603_460s.jpg
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  492. # [15:34] <karlcow> http://rng.io/
  493. # [15:34] <karlcow> >Ringmark is a web-based test suite that measures how well a mobile browser supports the capabilities that modern mobile web apps require.
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  495. # [15:37] <hsivonen> karlcow: it says Firefox fails "Data URL supported"...
  496. # [15:37] <karlcow> heh
  497. # [15:37] <hsivonen> karlcow: anyway, pretty cool that it counts prefixed features as failures
  498. # [15:38] <karlcow> it seems it comes from Facebook Team, if I understood correctly
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  500. # [15:39] <hsivonen> karlcow: I take that back, it seems to pass -webkit prefixes but not -moz. boo
  501. # [15:39] <hsivonen> not really helpful to minify a test suite
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  525. # [16:15] <zcorpan> document.msCSSOMElementFloatMetrics = true; eh?
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  528. # [16:22] <zcorpan> should we change offsetLeft from long to float?
  529. # [16:23] <zcorpan> have MS done research that shows that it'd Break the Web or do they just want to adhere to the spec and only violate it after setting a proprietary property?
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  541. # [16:49] <smaug____> hmm, do I dare to look at html-public archives today
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  553. # [17:10] <hsivonen> smaug____: it's just me and zcorpan posting today. We aren't scary.
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  555. # [17:12] <smaug____> hsivonen: yeah, looks like so.
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  582. # [17:55] <jgraham> http://rng.io - someone should tell CSSWG that 3D transforms is now "base functionality" of the web platform (according to facebook)
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  589. # [17:58] <[tm]> "Also note that however painful an API change may seem now, it will only get more painful the longer it is put off."
  590. # [17:59] <[tm]> indeed
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  656. # [19:31] <kennyluck> What does RFE in "canvas RFE" stand for?
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  659. # [19:32] <Ms2ger> Request for enhancement?
  660. # [19:35] <kennyluck> ah, that makes sense.
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  721. # [21:30] <jgraham> Hmm, is querySelectorAll supposed to return a live collection?
  722. # [21:31] <jgraham> Oh no
  723. # [21:32] <jgraham> The selectors API overrides DOM Core
  724. # [21:32] <jgraham> This seems confusing and wrong
  725. # [21:33] <jgraham> I guess this is the web, suck on it, or something
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  728. # [21:42] <smaug____> jgraham: it would be horrible if querySelectorAll would return live collection
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  730. # [21:42] <jgraham> smaug____: Oh yeah, that doesn't sound very sane
  731. # [21:42] <smaug____> it would be slow
  732. # [21:43] <jgraham> smaug____: But neither is having the "same" interface that can be live or static depending on how it is used
  733. # [21:43] <smaug____> yeah, that is strange
  734. # [21:43] <jwalden> Please leave your sense of logic at the door, thanks!
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  739. # [21:44] <jgraham> You woud have thought that I would have learnt after almost 8 years :)
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  745. # [22:02] <annevk> what is wrong with using an interface two ways?
  746. # [22:02] <annevk> that is one of the things we fixed in the DOM
  747. # [22:02] <annevk> and it's not DOM Core, it's DOM or DOM4
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  752. # [22:16] <jgraham> annevk: It weakens the invariants you can assume from having an object of a specific type
  753. # [22:17] <jgraham> Also, there are so many more interesting things to worry about than what specs are called this week :)
  754. # [22:19] <annevk> but do you? :p
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  799. # [23:43] <Hixie> so if we add hit regions to canvas
  800. # [23:43] <Hixie> and make it possibel to annotate such regions with aria roles
  801. # [23:43] <Hixie> it would make sense to make it possible for such hit regions to be hierarchical somehow
  802. # [23:43] <Hixie> since ATs use the tree for various purposes
  803. # [23:43] <Hixie> e.g. if you have a game menu that contained menu items
  804. # [23:44] <Hixie> you'd want the outer box to be a menu region, and the items to be menuitem regions as children of the menu region
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  806. # [23:44] <Hixie> we can kind of do that automatically by seeing what role the pixels have that you're drawing to when you draw the menuitem region
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  808. # [23:45] <Hixie> but what if you draw something unrelated over the top of it, like a popup window of some kind?
  809. # [23:45] <Hixie> just because it overlaps the menu doesn't mean it should be part of it...
  810. # [23:45] <Hixie> hmm
  811. # [23:46] <karlcow> -----
  812. # [23:46] <karlcow> ><meta name="pinterest" content="nopin" />
  813. # [23:46] <karlcow> >What if I don't want images from my site to be pinned?
  814. # [23:46] <karlcow> >We have a small piece of code you can add to the head of any page on your site:
  815. # [23:46] <karlcow> — http://pinterest.com/about/help/
  816. # [23:46] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoomac@119.63.221.131)
  817. # [23:47] * Quits: weinig (~weinig@17.212.155.45) (Quit: weinig)
  818. # [23:47] <Hixie> i guess i could get have the user give the ID of the parent region...
  819. # [23:48] <Hixie> s/user/author/
  820. # [23:48] <Hixie> but then what if that parent region is long gone...
  821. # [23:48] <Hixie> hmm
  822. # [23:48] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.88.128) (Quit: othermaciej)
  823. # [23:49] <karlcow> -----
  824. # [23:49] <karlcow> >The Yahoo-owned photo-sharing site has just added Pinterest’s newly introduced do-not-pin code to Flickr pages with copyrighted or protected images.
  825. # [23:49] <karlcow> — http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/24/flickr-pinterest-pin/
  826. # [23:50] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@46.115.1.167) (Quit: Bye!)
  827. # [23:51] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@ip-91-9-179-93.dialup.ice.net)
  828. # [23:51] <annevk> Hixie: is that the way AT APIs for the OS work?
  829. # [23:51] <annevk> Hixie: with some kind of tree backing?
  830. # [23:52] <Hixie> i guess i dunno
  831. # [23:52] <Hixie> i presume so
  832. # [23:52] <Hixie> pretty much every UI framework in existence uses a tree at some level
  833. # [23:52] <annevk> Hixie: it seems so immensely complicated for day-to-day developers
  834. # [23:52] <Hixie> e.g. a window contains its widgets
  835. # [23:52] <Hixie> a listbox contains its scrollbar
  836. # [23:52] <Hixie> etc
  837. # [23:53] <annevk> Hixie: e.g. I reckon if you explain this to Bruce Lawson or Jeremy Keith they might look a bit perplexed, but who knows
  838. # [23:54] <annevk> it's also very far from the goal of just having accessibility by default, but I guess we won't really get that high-level for the foreseeable future
  839. # [23:57] <Hixie> well the hit region thing i'm thinking of (see friday's discussion) is meant to really be used for people doing hit testing for mice users
  840. # [23:57] <Hixie> and we just hook aria roles into it
  841. # [23:57] <Hixie> and text labels for haptic feedback ATs
  842. # [23:58] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@ad008216.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
  843. # [23:59] <Hixie> ok so voiceover definitely has a tree
  844. # [23:59] <Hixie> go into system preferences, turn VO on
  845. # Session Close: Tue Feb 28 00:00:00 2012

The end :)