/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-03-05 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:17] <smaug____> Sounds like some MS developer may think about some other web "the needs of an open web"
  8. # [00:25] <annevk> lets all use the same words but mean something else by then
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  10. # [00:25] <annevk> m*
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  108. # [08:12] <hsivonen> TabAtkins_: I think it's insulting that they keep saying that anyone can implement clearkey as if Boris and I were dumb enough to accept that as addressing our concerns.
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  111. # [08:27] <Hixie> clearkey is a red herring. the spec has a better solution to the problem clearkey solves.
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  120. # [08:53] <charlvn> does anyone have a url for clearkey? googled but found a bunch of other stuff that doesn't seem to be related to tech or standards
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  140. # [09:46] <hsivonen> charlvn: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#simple-decryption-clear-key
  141. # [09:48] <hsivonen> great. ISO/IEC 23001-7:2012 is not available for HTTP GET without 74 CHF
  142. # [09:49] <hsivonen> does an mkv equivalent of ISO Common Encryption exist?
  143. # [09:49] <hsivonen> it seems Matroska does have encryption hooks for DRM
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  146. # [09:52] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: found http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Inbox/LSs_from_external_bodies/ISO_IEC_JTC1_SG29_WG11/29n12316.zip
  147. # [09:54] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: thanks
  148. # [09:54] <hsivonen> I wonder if that's an RF spec
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  150. # [09:55] <hsivonen> what's the main benefit of putting AES-CTR inside the container as opposed to encrypting the whole file using AES-CTR?
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  159. # [10:33] <hsivonen> I'm rather annoyed that it took this long in the thread for the requirement of integrating with ISO Common Encryption to show up
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  165. # [11:15] <charlvn> hsivonen: thanks!
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  174. # [11:53] <annevk> reading is hard
  175. # [11:53] <annevk> this time it's not me, but some guy on ietf-http-wg though
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  193. # [13:36] <matjas> was `document.scripts` specced before “HTML5”? http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/dom.html#dom-document-scripts
  194. # [13:38] <hsivonen> matjas: if it had been, it would probably have a more complicated name than "scripts"
  195. # [13:38] <matjas> hah
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  202. # [13:58] <hsivonen> hmm. no new champions in http://www.ie6countdown.com/champions.aspx in January and February
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  205. # [14:11] <annevk> https://twitter.com/molily/status/176652243901222912
  206. # [14:12] <annevk> What else is somewhat bad?
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  209. # [14:38] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#attr-link-href - why is this non-empty URL? <a> allows empty
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  211. # [14:44] <hsivonen> Do I interpret this right: https://twitter.com/#!/johnfoliot/status/176323582195023872 JF doesn't want users to have the right to run a speech recognizer on Netflix audio, because supporting such right would acknowledge that Netflix might not always provide human-written captions
  212. # [14:45] <hsivonen> and JF wants to insist that Netflix must provide human-written captions
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  214. # [14:54] <jgraham> hsivonen: Do you feel you get value out of arguing with JF?
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  236. # [15:54] <woef> Does anyone know why Safari has a non-conform UA string?
  237. # [15:55] <woef> Other browsers have "Browser/versionnr"
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  239. # [15:55] <woef> While Safari has "Version/versionnr Safari/webkitversion"
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  243. # [15:59] <hsivonen> woef: probably because they first put a non-marketing version after Safari/ and by the time they wanted to put a marketing version in the UA string, too, sites already depended on the non-marketing version after Safari/
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  246. # [16:01] <woef> Annoying though, makes it hard to get decent stats from GA.
  247. # [16:01] <woef> Guess they won't change it anytime soon then.
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  250. # [16:01] <Philip`> Why can't GA just parse the UA string in an appropriate way?
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  253. # [16:01] <woef> Make an exception for Safari?
  254. # [16:02] <woef> You'll have to ask Google I guess :)
  255. # [16:02] <woef> Other browsers all work in the same way.
  256. # [16:02] <woef> Browser/version nr
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  259. # [16:03] <Philip`> Opera doesn't
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  261. # [16:04] <Philip`> Any attempt to treat UA strings as anything other than opaque string templates with occasional optional/version-dependent tokens seems doomed to failure
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  278. # [16:56] <zcorpan> http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/Overview.src.html has lots of new text, review much appreciated :-)
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  280. # [16:57] <zcorpan> commit log http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/html5/html4-differences/Overview.src.html
  281. # [16:57] <annevk> oh shall I generate a copy for you?
  282. # [16:58] <zcorpan> sure
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  284. # [16:58] <zcorpan> i might take a stab at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13463 tonight also
  285. # [16:58] <annevk> hmm
  286. # [16:58] <annevk> isindex not defined
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  288. # [16:59] <zcorpan> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html#isindex ?
  289. # [17:00] <zcorpan> oh
  290. # [17:00] <zcorpan> it should point to http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/obsolete.html#isindex-0 no?
  291. # [17:01] <annevk> the term database is missing lots of terms
  292. # [17:02] <annevk> this might be a nice distraction from studying gb18030 though
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  294. # [17:07] <annevk> ms2ger: feature request, find out all the undefined terms in a document rather than just the first
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  299. # [17:09] <bga> annevk is opera userjs events available in nonuserjs?
  300. # [17:10] <bga> im interesting about onBeforeScropt/onAfterScript
  301. # [17:10] <jgraham> No. Unless there is a bug.
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  304. # [17:11] <rahaman> Hi all...i need one clarification reg how to specify the border attributes for <td> element, some time back I had sent an email on the same..
  305. # [17:11] <rahaman> can any one please help me out ?
  306. # [17:14] <annevk> bga: what do you want them for?
  307. # [17:14] <annevk> bga: we were thinking of adding the events in HTML, but the use cases seem somewhat unclear
  308. # [17:15] <bga> i see
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  315. # [17:25] <annevk> where did zcorpan go?
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  325. # [17:43] <Hixie> annevk: just do a cg for the encoding thing
  326. # [17:44] <annevk> my employer prefers WGs
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  331. # [18:01] <Hixie> hsivonen: i don't see a requirement anywhere to encrypt the frames rather than the entire stream
  332. # [18:02] <Hixie> hsivonen: the only requirement that was raised similar to that was that some formats use a manifest that itself points to the streams on the CDN that _are_ encrypted, but that's handled by this proposal -- you just put the http+aes urls in the manifest instead of http: urls
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  345. # [18:27] <AryehGregor> Yay, the CSSWG switched to hg just in time.
  346. # [18:27] <AryehGregor> Looks like I won't have to learn CVS after all.
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  350. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith:
  351. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> remote: importing Hg objects into Git
  352. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> remote: abort: Permission denied: /var/hg/repos/html/.git/objects/9a/cdb4fbb68fecbb5b9d7bd45c4f98e65f905f75.lock
  353. # [18:52] <Ms2ger> remote: fatal: Unable to create '/var/hg/repos/html/.git/refs/remotes/github/master.lock': Permission denied
  354. # [18:53] <Ms2ger> remote: warning: changegroup.github hook exited with status 128
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  356. # [19:04] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  364. # [19:28] <abarth> Hixie: looking at http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#http-aes-scheme . I'm wondering why there isn't a use case for integrity as well
  365. # [19:29] <abarth> Hixie: e.g., hosting a script on an untrusted CDN
  366. # [19:29] <Hixie> because if the CDN were to screw around and change things, they'd be sued and lose the business
  367. # [19:30] <Hixie> whereas just stealing information can be done without leaving a trace
  368. # [19:30] <abarth> as an example, we could not show a mixed content indicator if you loaded an integrity-checked script from http+aes on an HTTPS page
  369. # [19:30] <abarth> s/could not/would not have to/
  370. # [19:31] <Hixie> the headers would still be mitm'able
  371. # [19:31] <Hixie> so i don't think that's true
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  373. # [19:31] <abarth> today we show a mixed content warning because we're worried about an active network attacker corrupting the contents of the script and XSSing the page
  374. # [19:31] <abarth> i guess there's some trickiness with redirects
  375. # [19:32] <abarth> we'd need to make sure the final resource passed the integrity check
  376. # [19:32] <Hixie> as well as all those in between
  377. # [19:33] <Hixie> since an integrity check is easy to fake if you're in charge of the resource being served
  378. # [19:33] <abarth> do you mean the URL of the resource or the resource itself?
  379. # [19:33] <Hixie> both or either, i guess
  380. # [19:33] <Hixie> i think if integrity matters, you should use https+aes
  381. # [19:34] <Hixie> why reinvent the wheel
  382. # [19:34] * JohnAlbin is now known as JohnAlbin_zzzzzz
  383. # [19:34] <abarth> yeah, the only reason is performance
  384. # [19:34] <abarth> but HTTPS probably has fine performance now-a-days
  385. # [19:34] <Hixie> given that google.com is served on https now, i think the performance thing can be put to bed now
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  388. # [19:38] <abarth> ekr: the question is mainly what the use case is for integrity checking
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  390. # [19:39] <abarth> ekr: we've been talking about the mixed content use case, but that seems better addressed by HTTPS
  391. # [19:40] <ekr> Let me ask the question differently. What's the argument *against* integrity checking.
  392. # [19:40] <Ms2ger> Hehe
  393. # [19:41] <Ms2ger> The burden of proof lies with the person arguing for *more* features
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  395. # [19:41] <abarth> ekr: i would think there are two reasons:
  396. # [19:41] <abarth> 1) it's more complexity
  397. # [19:41] <ekr> While that may be generally true, there's ample experience that lack of integrity checking has led to serious security problems in a number of protocols
  398. # [19:41] <abarth> 2) redirects and headers can already screw with integrity, so we shouldn't try to promising properties we can't deliver
  399. # [19:42] <ekr> Most recently, for instance, look at the security problems with XML encryption.
  400. # [19:43] <ekr> So since integrity is the common security idiom, I think some argument is required for why it should not be used.
  401. # [19:44] <zcorpan> annevk: i went to fix food
  402. # [19:44] <ekr> WRT to the points you raise, Adam, I'm not sure I understand the setting here. I.e., if I have an http+aes URI, and I get redirected, does that mean that I expect the new target not to be encrypted?
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  405. # [19:47] <abarth> ekr: correct
  406. # [19:48] <abarth> (or at least that's what I've gathered from reading what in the spec today)
  407. # [19:49] <ekr> Without taking a position on whether that is a good design, integrity is about more than total message forgery. So, without integrity protection an attacker could (for instance) modify specific portions of a message while leaving some values intact. This is particularly easy with CTR, where it's possible to flip any bit.
  408. # [19:50] <ekr> I'm not saying that I have a concrete attack, but since any data can be carried over this channel, it's easy to see that an active attacker might be able to make significant semantic changes.
  409. # [19:50] <ekr> Just because you don't know the entire content of the message doesn't mean you don't know parts of it.
  410. # [19:51] <ekr> But I think more importantly, as the XMLENC case shows, lack of integrity can be a threat to confidentiality
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  413. # [19:53] <Ms2ger> annevk, fixed
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  415. # [19:56] <AryehGregor> Is hixie.ch down?
  416. # [19:58] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-fimzkwxolztiuywh)
  417. # [20:02] <zcorpan> whatwg.org seems down for me
  418. # [20:03] <charlvn> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/whatwg.org
  419. # [20:03] <charlvn> seems to be up for me
  420. # [20:04] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  421. # [20:04] <divya> everything is down because dreamhost is down
  422. # [20:05] <AryehGregor> Back up for me.
  423. # [20:06] <divya> yep all back up seems like.
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  429. # [20:16] <charlvn> down again
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  439. # [20:37] <annevk> Ms2ger: oooh you fixed that bug? I might actually complete html5-diff for zcorpan then
  440. # [20:37] * Quits: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B135985.dip.t-dialin.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  441. # [20:37] <annevk> html5.org is up
  442. # [20:38] * Joins: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B135985.dip.t-dialin.net)
  443. # [20:38] <annevk> Hixie: processing model of http+aes should probably be somewhat more clearly defined; people get confused about it
  444. # [20:39] * mattwest is now known as MattAntWest
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  455. # [20:58] <annevk> arv: big fan of the non-existing method(...magic) huh? :)
  456. # [20:58] <arv> annevk: Yup
  457. # [20:58] <annevk> arv: I guess we can make it vararg, but the += argument doesn't work for remove() and would not quite do the same thing (duplication)
  458. # [20:59] <annevk> arv: and without ...magic we'd be kind of lost, but maybe that makes the case for postponing work on this feature some more :)
  459. # [20:59] <arv> annevk: Duplication does not really matter
  460. # [21:00] <arv> annevk: it is one more reason why js libs are faster
  461. # [21:00] <annevk> are they really faster?
  462. # [21:00] <annevk> it sounds kind of silly
  463. # [21:00] <arv> yes
  464. # [21:00] <arv> but like I said in the bug, the js libs do not validate the input
  465. # [21:00] <annevk> are the implementations not optimized or something or just optimized for string manipulation?
  466. # [21:01] <zcorpan> annevk: yo
  467. # [21:01] <arv> the webkit one is faster for remove and has because we keep a vector of AtomicStrings (pointer comparison)
  468. # [21:03] <miketaylr> i think http://jsperf.com/classlist-vs-addclass shows that classList stuff can be faster, depending on the browser
  469. # [21:04] <miketaylr> i guess faster in safari and opera, slower in ff and chrome
  470. # [21:05] <arv> miketaylr: Yeah, Chrome DOM bindings are slow so doing a single className assignment is much faster than multiple adds
  471. # [21:07] <annevk> yay Opera
  472. # [21:09] <annevk> zcorpan: are you still updating?
  473. # [21:10] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-puqtsnagzfybilco) (Quit: tantek)
  474. # [21:10] <zcorpan> annevk: working on https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13463
  475. # [21:10] <zcorpan> haven't committed yet
  476. # [21:14] <annevk> Ms2ger: I get "SyntaxError: Specification not found: ." on html5-diff now
  477. # [21:14] <annevk> Ms2ger: after pulling, updating and running setup.py install
  478. # [21:15] <annevk> and afaict nothing is wrong with the data-anolis-ref links
  479. # [21:16] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
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  481. # [21:20] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
  482. # [21:21] <annevk> ooh
  483. # [21:21] <annevk> wait
  484. # [21:21] <annevk> that is about data-anolis-spec being wrong
  485. # [21:24] <annevk> not a bug in Anolis
  486. # [21:24] <annevk> but now I fixed that in Overview.src.html and there's a huge list of undefined terms :(
  487. # [21:24] * gwicke_away is now known as gwicke
  488. # [21:27] <Hixie> my plan to not read e-mail today and _just_ work on canvas is going to be apparently significantly helped today by dreamhost
  489. # [21:27] <annevk> email is down?
  490. # [21:28] <Hixie> apparently my mail server isn't responding, yeah
  491. # [21:28] <Hixie> dunno why
  492. # [21:28] <Hixie> it was working earlier
  493. # [21:28] <Hixie> doesn't matter though, i really _was_ planning to ignore my e-mail :-)
  494. # [21:28] <AryehGregor> Does anyone have any ideas on how to automatically test performance of transitions/animations cross-browser? My suspicion is it's not possible.
  495. # [21:28] <AryehGregor> At least, not usefully.
  496. # [21:28] <zcorpan> annevk: what needs changing in src.html?
  497. # [21:28] * AryehGregor looks at requestAnimationFrame
  498. # [21:29] <annevk> zcorpan: search for data-anolis-spec>
  499. # [21:29] <Hixie> AryehGregor: what are the requirements you are trying to test?
  500. # [21:29] <annevk> zcorpan: change it into data-anolis-spec=html>
  501. # [21:29] <zcorpan> annevk: thanks, fixed
  502. # [21:29] <zcorpan> (locally)
  503. # [21:29] <Hixie> AryehGregor: and do you mean in a self-contained automated fashion, manually, or with external automation help?
  504. # [21:29] <AryehGregor> Hixie, I don't think there are any spec requirements here, it's more like a QoI test. Like how Acid3 said it had to animate smoothly, but more automatically/objectively than that.
  505. # [21:30] <AryehGregor> TBH I'm not sure what the requirements are, exactly.
  506. # [21:30] <AryehGregor> Maybe I should figure them out.
  507. # [21:30] <Hixie> AryehGregor: it's usually a good start to writing a test :-)
  508. # [21:30] * weinig is now known as weinig|awat
  509. # [21:30] * weinig|awat is now known as weinig|away
  510. # [21:30] <jgraham> AryehGregor: If you do, let me know :) It seems like an intersting thing to test even in a browser-specific fashion
  511. # [21:30] <zcorpan> seems opera still supporst HTMLIsIndexElement
  512. # [21:31] <jgraham> But I don't think we have (m)any QoI tests like that for Opera
  513. # [21:31] <AryehGregor> The browser probably knows how often it's doing repaints or such, and should be able to secretly figure out if it's more or less than some threshold.
  514. # [21:31] <jgraham> I would like us to of cousre
  515. # [21:31] <AryehGregor> But not in a browser-independent fashion. I don't think there's ever going to be any reliable way to test FPS other than just looking.
  516. # [21:31] <AryehGregor> Possibly the looking could be automated by taking screenshots automatically or such, of course.
  517. # [21:31] <Hixie> AryehGregor: if you can use external tools, it seems you might be able to automate it by having the test set up to flash specific patterns at specific intervals, and then record it using an external video recorder (physical or screen grab tool) and having a script analyse the video to make sure the patterns appear at the right time
  518. # [21:31] <Hixie> AryehGregor: but that may be a bit over the top in complexity
  519. # [21:32] <jgraham> Relying on a physical camera seems like a non-starter
  520. # [21:32] <AryehGregor> Or just estimate FPS by taking a screenshot every 10ms or something and checking when two consecutive screenshots match.
  521. # [21:32] <jgraham> Well maybe not if you are Google
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  523. # [21:32] <jgraham> But taking a screenshot consumes resources itself
  524. # [21:32] <Hixie> AryehGregor: someone's working on a set of testing apis, that might be a place to start to add some sort of way to report the frame rate or something
  525. # [21:32] <AryehGregor> Of course, that assumes browsers aren't doing weird small things that make screenshots not match.
  526. # [21:33] <AryehGregor> What incentive do browsers have to ever claim less than 60fps?
  527. # [21:33] <AryehGregor> Or whatever is considered "high".
  528. # [21:33] <jgraham> Hixie: You mean the WebDriver stuff?
  529. # [21:33] <Hixie> AryehGregor: if it's a testing api, that only ships in test builds or is only enabled in test mode, it seems useful for them to be honest
  530. # [21:33] <Hixie> jgraham: yeah
  531. # [21:33] <jgraham> I don't think that helps here except that it provides an API for taking screenshots
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  533. # [21:33] <AryehGregor> Not if it makes them look bad relative to other browsers.
  534. # [21:33] <AryehGregor> Oh, it does? Privileged, I guess?
  535. # [21:33] <Hixie> AryehGregor: (with my idea the patterns could be qr codes that are quite resilient to rendering errors, if you just wanted to test timing)
  536. # [21:34] <jgraham> Tah's not really how it works
  537. # [21:34] <jgraham> WebDriver, I mean
  538. # [21:34] <jgraham> It is mostly a browser-control API
  539. # [21:34] <Hixie> jgraham: i meant that he could add new features to webdriver if necessary
  540. # [21:34] <jgraham> Sure, but it seems quite different to the existing feature set
  541. # [21:34] <jgraham> and the existing feature set generally works in nonmal builds
  542. # [21:34] <jgraham> *normal
  543. # [21:35] <jgraham> At least in opera
  544. # [21:35] <gsnedders> There's no guarantee as to how quickly a screenshot will be taken normally.
  545. # [21:35] <Philip`> AryehGregor: Artifical microbenchmarks sound generally bad because you'll encourage developers to optimise for cases that won't matter to real users, so it'd be better to construct a small number of full real-world demos that can be run manually to see if there's user-perceivable performance problems
  546. # [21:35] <gsnedders> So using it for timing dependant stuff is questionable.
  547. # [21:35] <Philip`> and then you wouldn't need an automatic mechanism for it
  548. # [21:35] <Hixie> yeah if you want to do it manually it's a lot easier
  549. # [21:35] <Hixie> (that's what acid3 did, basically)
  550. # [21:36] <Hixie> (not an especially good part of acid3, but that's another story)
  551. # [21:36] <jgraham> Right, I am a bit skeptical of a screenshot-based approach
  552. # [21:36] <AryehGregor> Philip`, kind of like IE Test Drive except not subtly biased to perform as badly as possible in all other browsers?
  553. # [21:36] <Philip`> AryehGregor: Yes
  554. # [21:37] * AryehGregor generously assumes that they wrote the tests without deliberate bias and then just optimized IE as much as possible for them before publicizing them, rather than deliberately sabotaging other browsers' performance
  555. # [21:37] <jgraham> AryehGregor: I thought they all tested the same thing (bliting perf.)
  556. # [21:37] <AryehGregor> Also possible.
  557. # [21:37] <AryehGregor> I didn't look at the details.
  558. # [21:37] <jgraham> Which just so happened to be the one thing that IE was good at compared to the others
  559. # [21:37] <jgraham> I thought one of our gfx guys said that, but I might be misremembering
  560. # [21:38] * Philip` remembers hearing the same comment from somewhere
  561. # [21:38] <gsnedders> jgraham: That is true
  562. # [21:39] <Philip`> If blitting performance is what real web pages will care about, then that's a useful thing to test, but I presume it's not the bottleneck in every likely case
  563. # [21:40] <annevk> zcorpan: also it's attr-hyperlink-usemap
  564. # [21:41] <jgraham> Anyway, it seems like you could do something like take a screenshot regulsr, but quite large, intervals and measure expected_position - actual_position in each screenshot, then subtract off some constant component (to allow for the time taken to create the screenshot)
  565. # [21:41] <annevk> zcorpan: and dom-document-onreadystatechange should be handler-onreadystatechange
  566. # [21:42] <jgraham> Seems pretty hard, but not impossible to do. I don't know if it would give good results though
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  569. # [21:43] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  570. # [21:44] <jgraham> I guess one issue is that to make it work, you would need to make the animation very simple, which would probably also make it performant
  571. # [21:44] <annevk> zcorpan: commandtype is dom-command-ro-commandtype
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  573. # [21:46] <annevk> zcorpan: likewise for the other commands
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  576. # [21:53] <annevk> zcorpan: also not attr-form-enctype but attr-fs-enctype
  577. # [21:54] <annevk> zcorpan: is async supposed to be attr-script-async?
  578. # [21:55] <annevk> zcorpan: ilnk -> link
  579. # [21:56] <annevk> zcorpan: attr-body-background -> attr-background
  580. # [21:56] <zcorpan> annevk: thanks! keep em coming, i'll read the logs. bbiab
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  583. # [21:57] <annevk> zcorpan: form-method -> fs-method
  584. # [21:58] <annevk> zcorpan: what is concept-categories?
  585. # [21:58] <annevk> form-action -> fs-action
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  588. # [21:59] <annevk> zcorpan: you have used both 'dir' and 'attr-dir'
  589. # [22:00] <annevk> attr is correct
  590. # [22:00] <annevk> attr-hyperlink-name -> attr-a-name
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  592. # [22:04] <annevk> zcorpan: I updated specification-data now; once you fix the mistakes I can probably finish this
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  595. # [22:13] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: thanks, will fix that now
  596. # [22:15] * Quits: wookiehangover (~wookiehan@c-67-161-138-118.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: i'm out)
  597. # [22:16] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: fixed
  598. # [22:17] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.91.27)
  599. # [22:19] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Thanks
  600. # [22:19] <jgraham> Even though I am not Ms2ger
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  602. # [22:19] <MikeSmith> heh
  603. # [22:20] <MikeSmith> I think it should all work again now
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  609. # [22:37] <annevk> @WHATWG has 6000 followers
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  616. # [22:49] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, thanks, though I don't care about git ;)
  617. # [22:50] <Ms2ger> annevk, no bugs on my side for Anolis?
  618. # [22:50] <annevk> nope
  619. # [22:53] <zcorpan> annevk: thanks
  620. # [22:57] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@mau49-1-82-245-46-173.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: tzing)
  621. # [22:57] <jgraham> Ms2ger: You might care about the exisance of code-review on github
  622. # [22:57] <jgraham> *existence
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  624. # [22:58] <Ms2ger> That's a nice typo
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  627. # [23:08] * zcorpan realizes there's no idl attribute that reflects form=""
  628. # [23:08] <TabAtkins_> From @mattur: "In a dramatic move, W3C CEO Jeff Jaffe has set fire to the W3C. Understandable; I've often wanted to do the same."
  629. # [23:09] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#dom-fae-form is reflecting enough?
  630. # [23:10] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: that's not reflecting the content attribute
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  632. # [23:13] <annevk> TabAtkins_: haha
  633. # [23:14] <annevk> mattur is on a role
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  644. # [23:37] <annevk> "TheOtherAB" stuff keeps getting better
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  648. # [23:45] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f7339f0.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  649. # [23:47] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@GYGKMMMCDXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  650. # [23:50] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-5eeaaaaa-74736162.cust.telenor.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  651. # [23:59] <Hixie> so... interface A { void x(); void y(); }; is black-box identical to interface A { void x(); } [NoInterfaceObject] interface B { void y(); } A implements B; right?
  652. # [23:59] <Hixie> i think i ask this like every other day but for some reason i am never confident of the answer
  653. # Session Close: Tue Mar 06 00:00:00 2012

The end :)