/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-03-11 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Sun Mar 11 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  4. # [00:14] * Quits: yuhong (~chatzilla@50-47-183-10.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356])
  5. # [00:14] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-91-165f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  6. # [00:36] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@50.59.89.36)
  7. # [00:36] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@50.59.89.36) (Client Quit)
  8. # [00:40] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  9. # [00:46] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  10. # [00:57] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@adsl-76-199-101-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  11. # [01:02] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  12. # [01:02] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  13. # [01:07] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  14. # [01:35] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  15. # [01:37] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  16. # [01:37] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Excess Flood)
  17. # [01:38] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  18. # [01:40] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  19. # [01:40] * Joins: facefox (~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
  20. # [01:44] * Quits: ojan (u5519@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xgtmdskvruicdnjn) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  21. # [01:49] * Quits: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B137DBC.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  22. # [01:52] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2)
  23. # [01:53] * Joins: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B05C96B.dip.t-dialin.net)
  24. # [01:58] * Quits: malydok (~marek@moma.t16.ds.pwr.wroc.pl) (Quit: Farewell)
  25. # [01:59] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  26. # [02:00] * Quits: benschwarz (u2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-irmajqwrhhsjfgan) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  27. # [02:03] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  28. # [02:18] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
  29. # [02:18] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:ac83:ec57:39d7:3bc7)
  30. # [02:22] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  31. # [02:35] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8643CE.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  32. # [02:36] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E864037.versanet.de)
  33. # [02:54] * Quits: AlexNRoss (AleossIRC@unaffiliated/aleoss) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  34. # [03:00] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.233.233)
  35. # [03:06] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.233.233) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  36. # [03:24] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E864037.versanet.de)
  37. # [03:25] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E864037.versanet.de)
  38. # [03:36] * Joins: onar_ (~onar@17.216.36.168)
  39. # [03:36] * Joins: jernoble (~jernoble@2620:149:4:1b01:18ac:9f7e:bebd:ec54)
  40. # [03:37] * Quits: onar (~onar@17.216.36.168) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  41. # [03:37] * onar_ is now known as onar
  42. # [03:38] * Quits: jernoble|afk (~jernoble@2620:149:4:1b01:5cb1:8653:c0d5:229e) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  43. # [03:42] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@adsl-76-199-101-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  44. # [03:45] * Quits: tndrH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
  45. # [03:51] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@adsl-76-199-101-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  46. # [03:51] * dydx is now known as dydz
  47. # [05:00] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@213.87.240.31)
  48. # [05:05] * Joins: ekr (~ekr@74-95-2-169-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  49. # [05:06] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@mau49-1-82-245-46-173.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  50. # [05:18] * Quits: ekr (~ekr@74-95-2-169-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: ekr)
  51. # [05:24] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  52. # [05:25] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  53. # [05:39] * Joins: ekr (~ekr@74-95-2-169-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  54. # [05:44] * Quits: ekr (~ekr@74-95-2-169-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  55. # [05:52] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  56. # [05:59] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  57. # [06:00] * Joins: ekr (~ekr@74-95-2-169-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  58. # [06:12] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  59. # [06:15] * Joins: Areks|2 (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  60. # [06:19] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2)
  61. # [06:24] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  62. # [06:29] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  63. # [06:31] * Joins: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view)
  64. # [06:43] * Quits: scor (~scor@drupal.org/user/52142/view) (Quit: scor)
  65. # [06:46] * Quits: ekr (~ekr@74-95-2-169-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  66. # [06:50] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  67. # [06:51] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@rrcs-71-42-148-180.sw.biz.rr.com)
  68. # [07:06] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.233.200)
  69. # [07:21] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  70. # [07:23] * Joins: jamesr (~jamesr@173-164-251-190-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  71. # [07:26] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-91-165f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  72. # [07:51] * Quits: dydz (~dydz@adsl-76-199-101-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydz)
  73. # [07:54] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
  74. # [07:55] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  75. # [08:02] * Joins: jochen___ (jochen@nat/google/x-pzmfeaoamznnzphp)
  76. # [08:06] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-jehnnxcgfmwafwhd) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  77. # [08:06] * jochen___ is now known as jochen__
  78. # [08:17] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  79. # [08:17] <zcorpan> "In this case the "proposed changes" will very likely be the null set if the CfC passes."
  80. # [08:17] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  81. # [08:17] <zcorpan> very likely?
  82. # [08:19] <zcorpan> it sounds a bit as if the chairs haven't reviewed the cp properly yet to be absolutely sure whether it would result in no changes or not
  83. # [08:21] * Quits: jamesr (~jamesr@173-164-251-190-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: jamesr)
  84. # [08:22] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1377 seems kinda fragile in opera
  85. # [08:22] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@cpe-70-113-114-168.austin.res.rr.com)
  86. # [08:23] * Joins: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-170-109.adsl.inetia.pl)
  87. # [08:23] <zcorpan> sometimes it disappears, sometimes it gets a random color, sometimes a table border is rendered but no cells, and sometimes it renders as it should...
  88. # [08:24] * Joins: jamesr (~jamesr@173-164-251-190-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  89. # [08:24] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-pzmfeaoamznnzphp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  90. # [08:24] * Quits: jamesr (~jamesr@173-164-251-190-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Client Quit)
  91. # [08:26] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-arwmuefdjopohfzv)
  92. # [08:27] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: mhausenblas)
  93. # [08:28] * Quits: wtachi (~wtachi@cpe-069-134-168-033.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: &)
  94. # [08:30] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  95. # [08:35] <zcorpan> hmm seems it just gets a random color and sometimes is fully transparent
  96. # [08:37] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  97. # [08:39] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10) (Client Quit)
  98. # [08:46] <othermaciej> zcorpan: it's very clear that it will result in no changes (as least to me)
  99. # [08:48] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: bye)
  100. # [08:48] <zcorpan> othermaciej: ok
  101. # [09:00] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2)
  102. # [09:06] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  103. # [09:13] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  104. # [09:15] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2)
  105. # [09:33] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  106. # [09:34] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@12.14.132.2) (Quit: tantek)
  107. # [09:35] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  108. # [09:44] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@145.171-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
  109. # [09:46] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Bye, bye! See you on http://leanbackplayer.com)
  110. # [09:47] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  111. # [09:49] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  112. # [09:50] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Client Quit)
  113. # [09:50] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  114. # [09:54] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  115. # [10:01] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  116. # [10:04] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Client Quit)
  117. # [10:40] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  118. # [10:44] * Quits: esc_ (~esc_ape@178.115.201.128.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  119. # [10:49] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-137-112.dynamic.qsc.de)
  120. # [10:52] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
  121. # [10:54] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  122. # [10:57] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  123. # [10:58] * Quits: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Bye, bye! See you on http://leanbackplayer.com)
  124. # [11:08] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB21C6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  125. # [11:15] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-137-112.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  126. # [11:18] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
  127. # [11:20] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326DF9.dip.t-dialin.net)
  128. # [11:21] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: othermaciej)
  129. # [11:22] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082A228.dip.t-dialin.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  130. # [11:27] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  131. # [11:27] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-197-186.dynamic.qsc.de)
  132. # [11:30] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-197-186.dynamic.qsc.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  133. # [11:44] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@182.53.63.11)
  134. # [11:44] * Joins: [[zzz]] (~q@182.53.63.11)
  135. # [11:48] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@101.108.104.164) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  136. # [11:50] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
  137. # [11:51] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net)
  138. # [11:54] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  139. # [11:54] * Joins: drublic_ (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net)
  140. # [11:57] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  141. # [11:58] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  142. # [12:18] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: bye)
  143. # [12:21] * Joins: malydok (~marek@moma.t16.ds.pwr.wroc.pl)
  144. # [12:32] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  145. # [12:36] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  146. # [12:44] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
  147. # [13:06] * Joins: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55)
  148. # [13:07] * Joins: tndrH (~Rob@cpc16-seac19-2-0-cust234.7-2.cable.virginmedia.com)
  149. # [13:10] * Joins: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@mau49-1-82-245-46-173.fbx.proxad.net)
  150. # [13:13] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@213.87.240.31) (Remote host closed the connection)
  151. # [13:13] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  152. # [13:15] * Parts: samebchase (samuel@pi.nipl.net)
  153. # [13:21] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek)
  154. # [13:35] * Joins: lar_zzz (~lar_zzz@p4FE2522E.dip.t-dialin.net)
  155. # [13:35] * Parts: lar_zzz (~lar_zzz@p4FE2522E.dip.t-dialin.net)
  156. # [13:35] * Joins: lar_zzz (~lar_zzz@p4FE2522E.dip.t-dialin.net)
  157. # [13:40] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  158. # [13:40] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-133-121.dynamic.qsc.de)
  159. # [13:42] * Parts: lar_zzz (~lar_zzz@p4FE2522E.dip.t-dialin.net)
  160. # [13:44] <bga> youtube discriminante Opera
  161. # [13:44] <bga> for Opera docuemt.write(<embed>
  162. # [13:44] <bga> => dont work w/o js
  163. # [13:45] <bga> for ff - just <embed>
  164. # [13:45] <bga> for IE - <object>
  165. # [13:45] <gsnedders> bga: That's all to do with the click-to-activate plugin nonsense.
  166. # [13:50] * Joins: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  167. # [13:51] <Dashiva> gsnedders: Speaking of that
  168. # [13:51] <Dashiva> How do you click to activate when there's no window?
  169. # [13:52] <Dashiva> E.g. the chat sounds in gmail
  170. # [13:52] * Parts: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  171. # [13:53] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: bye)
  172. # [13:53] * Joins: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  173. # [13:54] <gsnedders> Dashiva: the plugin can still run, and produce sounds, while not active
  174. # [13:54] * Parts: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  175. # [13:55] * Joins: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  176. # [13:57] <bga> gsnedders speaking about sound. What "Enable Sound in Web pages" in f12 disable? Only <bgsound>? or <audio> too?
  177. # [13:57] * Joins: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-92-39f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp)
  178. # [13:59] <gsnedders> bgsound, I believe.
  179. # [14:00] <bga> :(
  180. # [14:00] <bga> it should disable <audio> too
  181. # [14:00] <bga> and <embed midi/wav>
  182. # [14:01] <bga> embed/iframe
  183. # [14:07] * Joins: twisted`_ (~anonymous@p5DDB8C8C.dip.t-dialin.net)
  184. # [14:09] <Dashiva> gsnedders: Experience suggests it doesn't
  185. # [14:10] <Dashiva> There's no chat sounds in gmail in Opera
  186. # [14:10] * Quits: twisted` (~anonymous@p5DDBB235.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  187. # [14:10] * twisted`_ is now known as twisted`
  188. # [14:30] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  189. # [14:34] * Quits: karlcow (~karl@nerval.la-grange.net) (Quit: :tiuQ tiuq sah woclrak)
  190. # [14:37] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-170-109.adsl.inetia.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  191. # [14:37] * Joins: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-170-109.adsl.inetia.pl)
  192. # [14:42] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@rrcs-71-42-148-180.sw.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  193. # [14:43] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@rrcs-71-42-148-180.sw.biz.rr.com)
  194. # [14:49] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  195. # [14:56] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.204.41)
  196. # [15:07] * Quits: jarek (~jarek@unaffiliated/jarek) (Quit: jarek)
  197. # [15:11] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
  198. # [15:11] * zcorpan fiddled a bit more with http://simon.html5.org/specs/quirks-mode#the-percentage-height-quirk
  199. # [15:11] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com)
  200. # [15:14] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  201. # [15:22] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
  202. # [15:26] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@cpe-70-112-101-224.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  203. # [15:31] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@c-699de355.410-6-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: zcorpan)
  204. # [15:33] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYYYCMIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  205. # [15:37] * Quits: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128) (Quit: hoatle)
  206. # [15:42] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@rrcs-71-42-148-180.sw.biz.rr.com) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  207. # [15:43] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  208. # [15:49] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  209. # [15:49] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  210. # [15:55] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.233.200) (Remote host closed the connection)
  211. # [15:58] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com)
  212. # [16:01] * Quits: Areks|2 (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  213. # [16:02] * Joins: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  214. # [16:03] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  215. # [16:03] * Parts: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  216. # [16:04] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  217. # [16:10] <wilhelm> Which browsers support object-fit these days?
  218. # [16:18] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  219. # [16:21] <zewt> if you have two WebIDL overloads, void foo(interface1 a) and void foo(interface2 b), and you call with an object Z that implements neither interface, exactly what happens?
  220. # [16:22] <zewt> it seems like TypeError is supposed to be thrown from http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebIDL/#es-interface, but it's not clear how it gets *there* in the first place
  221. # [16:24] <zewt> (not sure where overload selection is actually defined; 3.2.6 doesn't seem to do it)
  222. # [16:27] <zewt> oh, hidden away in 4.4.1.1; the word "overload" needs to show up in the TOC for it somewhere
  223. # [16:34] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: bye)
  224. # [16:37] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  225. # [16:44] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@207.238.77.74)
  226. # [16:47] * Joins: maikmerten_ (~maikmerte@port-92-201-112-2.dynamic.qsc.de)
  227. # [16:47] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-133-121.dynamic.qsc.de) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  228. # [16:51] * Joins: SavageX_ (~maikmerte@port-92-201-87-216.dynamic.qsc.de)
  229. # [16:54] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@207.238.77.74) (Quit: tantek)
  230. # [16:54] * Quits: maikmerten_ (~maikmerte@port-92-201-112-2.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  231. # [16:54] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@cpe-70-113-114-168.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: shepazu)
  232. # [16:59] * Quits: SavageX_ (~maikmerte@port-92-201-87-216.dynamic.qsc.de) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  233. # [16:59] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-51-44.dynamic.qsc.de)
  234. # [17:10] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  235. # [17:17] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@188.168.203.254)
  236. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> zewt, ah, now I see why you were asking :)
  237. # [17:24] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  238. # [17:43] * Joins: shepazu (~shepazu@12.231.120.253)
  239. # [17:43] * Quits: shepazu (~shepazu@12.231.120.253) (Client Quit)
  240. # [17:54] * Joins: roc (~chatzilla@ANancy-256-1-49-6.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  241. # [17:56] * Joins: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15)
  242. # [17:59] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@145.171-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  243. # [18:09] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@cm-84.215.13.244.getinternet.no)
  244. # [18:14] * Joins: samol (~samol@cqo86.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
  245. # [18:15] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.250.56)
  246. # [18:20] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-51-44.dynamic.qsc.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  247. # [18:23] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50.59.76.58)
  248. # [18:26] * Joins: AlexNRoss (AleossIRC@unaffiliated/aleoss)
  249. # [18:30] * Joins: wtachi (~wtachi@cpe-069-134-168-033.nc.res.rr.com)
  250. # [18:31] <kennyluck_> I don't understand how would text/html in DOMParser take 10 years to finish → https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102699
  251. # [18:31] <kennyluck_> I thought there was some technical debate about this feature, though I don't see any.
  252. # [18:31] <kennyluck_> in the bug, at least.
  253. # [18:32] <annevk> nobody interested in doing it is usually the reason
  254. # [18:37] * Quits: kenneth_ (kenneth@nat/nokia/x-vgluifpvuggzgljd) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  255. # [18:39] * Joins: davidb (~davidb@rrcs-67-79-199-246.sw.biz.rr.com)
  256. # [18:42] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  257. # [18:50] <Ms2ger> Also, the fact that our old HTML parser has been unmaintained for a decade or so
  258. # [18:51] <annevk> kennyluck_: btw, have you heard back yet on lists.w3.org hosting a copy of whatwg@whatwg.org?
  259. # [18:53] <kennyluck_> annevk, no. You could ask MikeSmith.
  260. # [18:59] <bga> i wonder why ppl dont accept pt and cm units in css
  261. # [18:59] <bga> font-size: 0.5cm
  262. # [19:00] <bga> look identical in all UAs
  263. # [19:00] <bga> not related your device dpi
  264. # [19:00] <gsnedders> bga: IE6.
  265. # [19:00] <bga> ie6 what?
  266. # [19:01] <bga> dont support it?
  267. # [19:03] * Quits: roc (~chatzilla@ANancy-256-1-49-6.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  268. # [19:04] <gsnedders> bga: Scaling didn't work with absolute units in IE6, for a11y reasons was discouraged
  269. # [19:05] <bga> ok. so when IE6 will die we now can use cm?
  270. # [19:05] <bga> many projects doesnt support IE6 today
  271. # [19:05] <gsnedders> bga: I guess so.
  272. # [19:13] * Joins: GlitchMr42 (~glitchmr@178-36-170-109.adsl.inetia.pl)
  273. # [19:13] <kennyluck_> I never try hard to understand the debates about physical units in CSS. There are so many long long threads about them on www-style...
  274. # [19:13] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-170-109.adsl.inetia.pl) (Disconnected by services)
  275. # [19:14] * GlitchMr42 is now known as GlitchMr
  276. # [19:26] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
  277. # [19:29] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50.59.76.58)
  278. # [19:38] <zewt> cm units would be very strange on large monitors if they actually worked
  279. # [19:38] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50.59.76.58) (Quit: tantek)
  280. # [19:39] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50.59.76.58) (Quit: Leaving...)
  281. # [19:39] <zewt> annevk: re utf32--i wouldn't quote that; it reads like nothing but unicode people trying to pretend utf-16 wasn't a gross mistake
  282. # [19:40] <zewt> (it talks about "industrial-strength text", which ignores the fact that 98% of code isn't that)
  283. # [19:42] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50.59.76.58)
  284. # [19:45] * Quits: davidb (~davidb@rrcs-67-79-199-246.sw.biz.rr.com) (Quit: davidb)
  285. # [19:49] <bga> zewt check it http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5332813/test/screenDiagonal/index.xhtml
  286. # [19:51] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@50.59.76.58) (Quit: Leaving...)
  287. # [20:03] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
  288. # [20:07] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@12.43.172.10)
  289. # [20:11] <annevk> zewt: if utf-16 was a mistake, why wouldn't utf-32 be?
  290. # [20:11] * Joins: jcarbaugh (jcarbaugh@conference/pycon/x-oqdwheisylvwxmzm)
  291. # [20:15] <StoneCypher> because 16's got varying width codepoints and 32 doesn't
  292. # [20:15] <StoneCypher> the issue is about whether you have constant time random access to string contents
  293. # [20:15] <StoneCypher> which is a lot more important than most people realize
  294. # [20:17] * Quits: jcarbaugh (jcarbaugh@conference/pycon/x-oqdwheisylvwxmzm)
  295. # [20:18] <annevk> doesn't help with grapheme clusters
  296. # [20:19] <StoneCypher> yeah, it does
  297. # [20:19] <annevk> euh no
  298. # [20:19] <StoneCypher> those are distinct codepoints, iirc (they aren't distinct characters)
  299. # [20:19] * Joins: jcarbaugh (jcarbaugh@conference/pycon/x-fekofdtfsmudkbdi)
  300. # [20:19] <StoneCypher> the germane issue is, it lets you find whatever the label is of the granular lookup in constant time, without a string scan
  301. # [20:20] <gsnedders> annevk: It helps because you can then check general category of each codepoint in constant time in the string
  302. # [20:20] <StoneCypher> it's much more general than that
  303. # [20:20] <StoneCypher> you can act in constant time
  304. # [20:21] <StoneCypher> you can take substrings, you can replace characters, you can do searches, etc
  305. # [20:21] * Quits: mhausenblas (~mhausenbl@188.141.67.15) (Quit: bye)
  306. # [20:21] <StoneCypher> without fixed-width granular units you are forced to behave in a fashion equivalent to a linked list
  307. # [20:21] <annevk> well you can't do a lot of that because of grapheme clusters
  308. # [20:21] <StoneCypher> again
  309. # [20:21] <StoneCypher> you're speaking at a higher level of organization than is appropriate
  310. # [20:21] <StoneCypher> there are layers in unicode
  311. # [20:21] <StoneCypher> this is about finding positions in the codepoint stream, not interpreting them
  312. # [20:22] <StoneCypher> if you want to discuss interpretation, you *still* get a significant complexity increase from locating the things you later interpret
  313. # [20:22] <annevk> if you want to do text manipulation, you should look at the text, not code points
  314. # [20:22] <StoneCypher> and what do you believe the text is made of
  315. # [20:22] <StoneCypher> this is an issue of datastructure access time
  316. # [20:22] <StoneCypher> addressing what's in the datastructure is missing the point
  317. # [20:24] * Quits: izhak (~izhak@188.168.203.254) (Remote host closed the connection)
  318. # [20:25] <annevk> not sure what you're saying
  319. # [20:25] <gsnedders> annevk: If you want to do text manipulation, you have to look at the text, and to look at the text, you have to look at its underlying representation, so you have to look at its codepoints.
  320. # [20:26] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  321. # [20:26] <gsnedders> annevk: So performance of looking at the codepoints is relevant for text manipulaton
  322. # [20:27] <annevk> are you saying perf would be drastically impacted because of utf-16?
  323. # [20:27] <annevk> surrogates are really easy to calculate and find too
  324. # [20:28] <StoneCypher> yes, performance is radically impacted by imposing non-constant time access on strings.
  325. # [20:30] <zewt> annevk: utf-32 is a reasonable internal format for strings; utf-16 is just garbage
  326. # [20:31] <gsnedders> And UTF-8 is even worse.
  327. # [20:31] <annevk> given that memory has been an argument in the past, I'd argue utf-32 is prolly worse, and utf-8 would be better
  328. # [20:31] <zewt> utf-16 combines the cons of both utf-8 (variable length) and utf-32 (not ASCII-compatible)
  329. # [20:31] <annevk> see e.g. some posts from roc on what browsers from scratch would use
  330. # [20:32] <gsnedders> annevk: Yes, perf and memory usage are directly opposite here
  331. # [20:32] <zewt> i'd expect new implementations to use transparent optimization (eg. UCS-2 for strings that fit in it, expanding strings to UTF-32 when necessary, without application-level code having to know the difference)
  332. # [20:33] <gsnedders> annevk: UTF-8 undeniably has the lowest memory usage and the worst performance; UTF-32 has the highest memory usage and best performance.
  333. # [20:33] <gsnedders> zewt: Probably ASCII too.
  334. # [20:33] <zewt> "performance" is a bit more complex than that
  335. # [20:33] <annevk> yeah, best performance for what?
  336. # [20:33] <zewt> eg. if you're just copying and comparing strings (very common), lowest memory usage equals highest performance
  337. # [20:33] <annevk> certainly not for 16-bit code unit indexing :p
  338. # [20:35] <zewt> another problem with utf-16 is that it leads to lots of subtle bugs when surrogates appear, since they're so rare people never test it
  339. # [20:39] * Quits: jcarbaugh (jcarbaugh@conference/pycon/x-fekofdtfsmudkbdi)
  340. # [20:51] <annevk> so if you give
  341. # [20:51] <annevk> FE FF 00 7A D8 AA 00 7A 00 7A
  342. # [20:51] <annevk> to WebKit
  343. # [20:51] <annevk> it only displays a single "z"
  344. # [20:52] <annevk> but if you go through the code points, there's actually 4, and the second is D8AA, not FFFD
  345. # [20:52] <annevk> (it's FFFD in Gecko)
  346. # [20:52] <kennyluck_> That's a silly bug in WebKit. It doesn't display any text run after an isolated surrogate.
  347. # [20:52] <annevk> Opera mimics Opera
  348. # [20:53] <annevk> euh Opera mimics Gekco
  349. # [20:53] <annevk> Gecko
  350. # [20:53] <annevk> geez
  351. # [20:53] <Velmont> Would be nice to mimic Opera though.
  352. # [20:53] <Velmont> Nice and recursive.
  353. # [20:53] <Ms2ger> Opera did it first
  354. # [20:53] <Velmont> So it is recursive then. Just with one indirection :P
  355. # [20:54] <annevk> Ms2ger: it's not like Gecko could up with something innovative like that
  356. # [20:56] <annevk> and of course, IE is the same as Webkit, minus the silly bug
  357. # [20:56] <Ms2ger> Gecko is perfectly capable of coming up with innovative things
  358. # [20:56] <Ms2ger> Did I say innovative? I meant ridiculous
  359. # [20:56] <annevk> man not even UTF-16 decoding is interoperable
  360. # [20:56] <annevk> what is wrong with this world
  361. # [20:56] <Ms2ger> Surprise!
  362. # [21:00] <annevk> oh, @bz_moz made a public appearance at SXSW
  363. # [21:00] <annevk> I wonder if there's a video of that
  364. # [21:00] <Ms2ger> I hope so
  365. # [21:01] <Ms2ger> dbaron had an interesting talk too
  366. # [21:04] <scott_gonzalez> MikeSmith: 4 or 5 files should be fine, assuming they're not massive.
  367. # [21:04] <scott_gonzalez> I'll ping you tomorrow about it. Thanks.
  368. # [21:17] * Joins: karega (~karegaani@cpe-76-187-5-181.tx.res.rr.com)
  369. # [21:27] * Joins: onar_ (~onar@17.216.36.168)
  370. # [21:27] * Joins: jernoble_ (~jernoble@2620:149:4:1b01:15dc:f967:6b4e:8bcc)
  371. # [21:28] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@cm-84.215.13.244.getinternet.no) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  372. # [21:29] * Quits: onar (~onar@17.216.36.168) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  373. # [21:29] * onar_ is now known as onar
  374. # [21:29] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@2620:149:4:1b01:18ac:9f7e:bebd:ec54) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  375. # [21:29] * jernoble_ is now known as jernoble
  376. # [21:31] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYYYCMIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  377. # [21:32] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@ZYYYCMIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
  378. # [21:38] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com)
  379. # [21:40] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.250.56) (Quit: nn)
  380. # [21:48] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-170-109.adsl.inetia.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  381. # [21:52] * Joins: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  382. # [21:53] * Quits: kennyluck_ (~kennyluck@114-25-243-191.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  383. # [21:53] * Parts: hoatle (~hoatle@118.71.132.128)
  384. # [21:55] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-124-244.dynamic.hinet.net)
  385. # [22:08] * Joins: dydx (~dydz@adsl-76-199-101-60.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
  386. # [22:09] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com)
  387. # [22:11] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50.59.76.58)
  388. # [22:11] * Quits: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55) (Remote host closed the connection)
  389. # [22:12] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  390. # [22:13] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  391. # [22:18] * Joins: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com)
  392. # [22:20] * Quits: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  393. # [22:21] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-149-19.dynamic.telemach.ba) (Read error: No route to host)
  394. # [22:22] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-149-19.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  395. # [22:28] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-71-204-145-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  396. # [22:28] * Quits: ezoe (~ezoe@203-140-92-39f1.kyt1.eonet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  397. # [22:31] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  398. # [22:33] * Joins: cpearce (~cpearce@60.234.54.74)
  399. # [22:38] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  400. # [22:40] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@50.59.76.58) (Quit: tantek)
  401. # [22:47] * Quits: jcarbaugh (~jcarbaugh@sccc-66-78-236-243.smartcity.com)
  402. # [22:52] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  403. # [22:54] * Joins: jcarbaugh (jcarbaugh@conference/pycon/x-tndlethqnlswiklf)
  404. # [22:55] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@c-24-6-209-189.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  405. # [23:16] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  406. # [23:17] * Quits: StoneCypher (~no@pool-71-191-249-112.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  407. # [23:23] * Quits: karega (~karegaani@cpe-76-187-5-181.tx.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  408. # [23:23] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  409. # [23:32] * Quits: samol (~samol@cqo86.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  410. # [23:38] * Quits: drublic_ (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  411. # [23:38] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
  412. # [23:40] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net)
  413. # [23:47] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-4d029766.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  414. # [23:50] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
  415. # [23:59] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
  416. # Session Close: Mon Mar 12 00:00:00 2012

The end :)