/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-03-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Mar 17 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:03] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.113)
  4. # [00:10] <Hixie> othermaciej: yt?
  5. # [00:10] <TabAtkins> I guess so, yeah.
  6. # [00:10] <Hixie> TabAtkins: or just a joint CanvasStyles object that does both?
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  10. # [00:11] <othermaciej> Hixie: I'm here
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  12. # [00:11] <Hixie> TabAtkins: also, should the methods accept a <canvas> as argument? <canvas> implements the same interface, after all
  13. # [00:11] * tomasf_ is now known as tomasf
  14. # [00:11] <TabAtkins> Ooh, joint.
  15. # [00:11] <TabAtkins> No reason to split them up.
  16. # [00:11] <Hixie> othermaciej: we were just pondering:
  17. # [00:11] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:a8cb:de8:bd55:a7a5)
  18. # [00:11] <Hixie> if i move lineWidth to a separate object that you pass to addPathByStrokingPath()
  19. # [00:11] <TabAtkins> And yes, that sounds like a good idea.
  20. # [00:11] <Hixie> does that mean i should also move .font to a separate object that you pass to addText() ?
  21. # [00:11] <TabAtkins> "Just do whatever this canvas does"
  22. # [00:11] <Hixie> or more likely, a joint object that does both
  23. # [00:12] <Hixie> which is what we were discussing when you joined
  24. # [00:12] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
  25. # [00:12] <TabAtkins> Like a PathOptions interface that canvas implements as well.
  26. # [00:12] <othermaciej> Hixie: in my opinion, yes, LineStyle and TextStyle should both be separate objects from Path; I could see a plausible argument for combining them (into a DrawingStyle?)
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  29. # [00:12] <Hixie> TabAtkins: actually i guess context, not canvas
  30. # [00:13] <Hixie> othermaciej: k
  31. # [00:13] <Hixie> othermaciej: CanvasStyles was my current name but i don't really mind what we call it
  32. # [00:13] <Hixie> DrawingStyle works for me if people prefer that
  33. # [00:13] <othermaciej> Hixie: in theory it's not necessarily canvas-specific
  34. # [00:13] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Bluh, yeah.
  35. # [00:13] <othermaciej> Hixie: you could presumably use it in other contexts where a contextual drawing style is relevant
  36. # [00:14] <Hixie> othermaciej: DrawingStyle it is
  37. # [00:15] <othermaciej> personally I'd split LineStyle and TextStyle but it doesn't hugely matter, since you can always set only the fields you care about
  38. # [00:16] <Hixie> the problem with splitting them is it makes the call to addTextByStrokingPath() have an even more ridiculous number of arguments
  39. # [00:16] <Hixie> or rather
  40. # [00:16] <Hixie> addPathByStrokingText
  41. # [00:16] <Hixie> text, line style, text style, transform, path, max width
  42. # [00:16] <Hixie> i think
  43. # [00:17] <Hixie> it's almost dictionary-arguments territory
  44. # [00:17] <TabAtkins> addPathByPathingPath(path)
  45. # [00:17] <TabAtkins> For the path-along-a-path goodness.
  46. # [00:18] <Hixie> i don't like it when you parody my apis and i am briefly unsure if you're being funny or serious
  47. # [00:18] <Hixie> :-P
  48. # [00:18] <TabAtkins> Hahaha
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  50. # [00:25] <zewt> does somebody else feel like replying to charles because I don't have the energy to teach elementary web api design right now
  51. # [00:25] <TabAtkins> I was hoping you'd do it.
  52. # [00:27] <zewt> (did anything he wrote actually have anything to do with anything I said? anything anything)
  53. # [00:27] <TabAtkins> Well, the part where he said you're wrong and devs should just follow the spec.
  54. # [00:29] <zewt> which is essentially impossible anyway; there's no sane coding pattern with the api in the spec, for many cases
  55. # [00:30] <TabAtkins> Yeah, besides just duplicating all your code paths.
  56. # [00:30] <TabAtkins> Which I guess doesn't qualify as "sane", and so is in line with what you said. ^_^
  57. # [00:31] <zewt> i mean, if you have a binary data file that's little endian, and you want to access it as an array, the only way to make that "work" under the current spec is to add a test for big endian (by testing it) and manually byte swap the data
  58. # [00:31] <zewt> which i wouldn't call sane either
  59. # [00:39] <TabAtkins> Yeah, and if you're going to do that, why not just make it automatic?
  60. # [00:39] <TabAtkins> You're basically *required* to do it.
  61. # [00:40] <TabAtkins> Unless you're doing extremely basic data pass-through, you need to have a known endianness.
  62. # [00:40] <zewt> i think the theory is people creating model/vertex/whatever data in javascript, with the output going to a native-endian buffer, then the native-endian buffer going to the GPU without conversion
  63. # [00:41] <zewt> but the idea that every web developer should need to test two incompatible webs, for a premature optimization for an architecture combination that doesn't exist ......
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  100. # [02:09] <zewt> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16285 if only someone had already written a clean spec documenting how dom events wo--oh, right
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  236. # [14:57] <smaug____> um, nested event loops are so much fun :/
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  238. # [14:58] * smaug____ wants to kill all the sync and nested event loop things from the web platform (window context)
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  248. # [15:37] <smaug____> alert, confirm, prompt. are there other sync/blocking dialogs
  249. # [15:38] <zewt> file pickers, usually
  250. # [15:38] <smaug____> ah
  251. # [15:38] <smaug____> I have those :)
  252. # [15:38] <smaug____> er
  253. # [15:38] <smaug____> hate even
  254. # [15:39] <zewt> i wonder how many sites would break if that was made non-modal; might confuse some stuff that calls input.click() or whatever it is
  255. # [15:39] <zewt> i've wished those would at least be made tab-modal, like the other dialogs, but since they're OS-provided things that's hard to do, I think
  256. # [15:40] <smaug____> file picker doesn't have to be OS-provided though
  257. # [15:40] <zewt> it'd be annoying to users if it was nonstandard
  258. # [15:40] <smaug____> sure
  259. # [15:41] <smaug____> (expect in OSX anything is better than the default filepicker)
  260. # [15:41] <smaug____> except
  261. # [15:41] <zewt> oh yeah, onbeforeunload, technically
  262. # [15:41] <smaug____> I can't type today
  263. # [15:41] <zewt> not as bad as the others since it doesn't happen in the middle of scripts
  264. # [15:42] <zewt> so maybe it doesn't count
  265. # [15:43] <smaug____> it does
  266. # [15:43] <zewt> depends on what you're asking for
  267. # [15:44] <smaug____> just doing something for mutationobservers...
  268. # [15:44] <smaug____> and this is very mozilla specific things..
  269. # [15:44] <smaug____> since all the alert() etc are also just DOM documents
  270. # [15:44] <smaug____> need to do so microtask hackery
  271. # [15:45] <smaug____> s/so/some/
  272. # [15:46] <zewt> maybe SSL nags in some cases?
  273. # [15:46] <smaug____> bah, I don't care about SSL :)
  274. # [15:48] <smaug____> zewt: thanks. I had forgotten filepicker and beforeunload.
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  295. # [17:30] <jwheare> TabAtkins: hey, just read your http://www.xanthir.com/blog/b48H0 after having a chat with alex russel a few weeks ago re: constraint position layouts. do you know of any javascript implementations of your ideas or anything like them?
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  299. # [17:48] * Ms2ger writes some JS tests
  300. # [17:48] <Ms2ger> Opera passes everything, foiled again
  301. # [17:51] <gsnedders> Heheheh.
  302. # [17:51] <gsnedders> Go me/jgraham!
  303. # [17:51] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Are you testing hot-code behaviour or just cold-code?
  304. # [17:51] <Ms2ger> Cold
  305. # [17:52] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Ah, then you're unlikely to find anything *that* interesting.
  306. # [17:52] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f730bbe.pool.mediaWays.net)
  307. # [17:52] <Ms2ger> Mm
  308. # [17:53] <Ms2ger> Relatedly
  309. # [17:54] <Ms2ger> Does the spec define what Math.max({ valueOf: function() { print('a') } }, { valueOf: function() { print('b') } }) should print?
  310. # [17:54] <gsnedders> Yes.
  311. # [17:54] <Ms2ger> Do continue :)
  312. # [17:55] <gsnedders> Or at least I remember a discussion about this on es-discuss and I think the conclusion was yes. :)
  313. # [17:58] <gsnedders> Can't find anything, can't justify anything from spec.
  314. # [17:59] <Ms2ger> Me neither
  315. # [17:59] * Ms2ger asserts 'ab'
  316. # [18:00] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: I believe everything does that
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  320. # [18:01] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: I'd quite like some tests for typed arrays testing JIT behaviour
  321. # [18:01] <Ms2ger> I'd like tests for all of HTML
  322. # [18:01] <Ms2ger> And a pony
  323. # [18:01] <gsnedders> left-to-right.
  324. # [18:01] <gsnedders> "Each of the following Math object functions applies the ToNumber abstract operator to each of its arguments (in left-to-right order if there is more than one)"
  325. # [18:02] <gsnedders> 15.8.2
  326. # [18:02] <Ms2ger> Excellent
  327. # [18:03] <gsnedders> I thought it was specified. :P
  328. # [18:03] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Also, if you want to find bugs in Opera, you better be testing ARM JIT. :P
  329. # [18:04] <Ms2ger> I don't care about ARM
  330. # [18:05] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: If you're testing ES, don't expect identical behaviour cross-platform. There are, unsurprisingly for compilers, backend specific bugs
  331. # [18:06] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Also x86 v. x86_64
  332. # [18:07] <Philip`> Are there e.g. SSE2 vs non-SSE2 paths in the backend?
  333. # [18:07] <Philip`> (or NEON vs non-NEON or whatever)
  334. # [18:09] <gsnedders> Philip`: SSE2 v. non-SSE2 on x86 (not on x86-64, as SSE2 exists on x86-64 by definition)
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  336. # [18:09] <gsnedders> Philip`: There's also other SSE stuff used, more recently
  337. # [18:09] <gsnedders> Philip`: Dunno about NEON
  338. # [18:13] <gsnedders> Philip`: (though we ship with the non-SSE2 JIT disabled, because it's buggy and nobody has ever bothered to fix it)
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  344. # [18:22] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, I've got failures in all my tests in at least two of {Fx, IE, Chrome}, I'm not going to bother with Opera-on-ARM :)
  345. # [18:24] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Heh. Testing IE10 along-side latest versions of the others?
  346. # [18:24] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  347. # [18:24] <Ms2ger> I should check if Chrome is the latest, actually
  348. # [18:25] <Ms2ger> 18.0.1025.100 beta, I guess that's pretty out of date
  349. # [18:26] <gsnedders> 19 is Dev now
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  351. # [18:29] <Ms2ger> Opera 11.60 beta, how old is that?
  352. # [18:30] * Parts: cullenfluffyjen (~fluffy@nat/cisco/x-efbvbhzuqgdjwejn)
  353. # [18:30] <gsnedders> Six months?
  354. # [18:32] <gsnedders> Nah, only four.
  355. # [18:32] * Ms2ger tries to upgrade
  356. # [18:33] * gsnedders wonders if the beta doesn't autoupdate
  357. # [18:34] <Ms2ger> 11.61?
  358. # [18:34] <Ms2ger> Hmm, that's not beta, I gues
  359. # [18:34] <Ms2ger> s
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  361. # [18:36] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: Indeed.
  362. # [18:36] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: But we should autoupdate from beta to stable (and ideally back to beta, if there becomes another)
  363. # [18:37] <gsnedders> Opera Next should stick with Next, which is typically latest snapshot with a slight delay.
  364. # [18:39] <Ms2ger> Oh, so 11.61 is what I want to be on?
  365. # [18:39] <gsnedders> Either get Opera Next which is 12 Alpha, or 11.61 if you want stable.
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  429. # Session Close: Sun Mar 18 00:00:00 2012

The end :)