/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-03-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Mar 24 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
  3. # [00:11] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
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  6. # [00:24] <Hixie> hmm, i suppose if path is null and we're using the current default path i should throw if a transform is provided to addHitRegion...
  7. # [00:26] <Hixie> any dom core editors around?
  8. # [00:26] <Hixie> actually i guess MouseEvent isn't in DOM Core
  9. # [00:27] <Hixie> what spec defines the MouseEvent constructor these days?
  10. # [00:28] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162) (Quit: chriseppstein)
  11. # [00:31] <paul_irish> http://html5labs.com/dom4events/#constructors-mouseevent maybe?
  12. # [00:31] <Hixie> ah, cool, thanks
  13. # [00:32] <jwalden> anyone have a recent copy of IE10 to test something for me? I need to know what |Object.create(new DataView(new ArrayBuffer(8))).setUint8(2, 5)| in http://www.squarefree.com/shell/shell.html produces there
  14. # [00:32] <Hixie> heycam: can i do "partial dictionary Foo { foo myNewMember }" ?
  15. # [00:33] <heycam> you cannot, sorry
  16. # [00:33] <heycam> did you ask that recently, or was that someone else?
  17. # [00:34] <heycam> one problem with allowing it is that we need to have a defined order for dictionary members, so that the properties can be got in a fixed order
  18. # [00:34] <heycam> with partials, you don't have any ordering between the different fragments
  19. # [00:34] <jwalden> specifying property enumeration order? :-(
  20. # [00:35] <Hixie> heycam: hmm
  21. # [00:35] <heycam> jwalden, nah, just order of fetching properties from an object that's being used as a dictionary
  22. # [00:35] <jwalden> heycam: oh, you mean like for Object.defineProperty(..., ..., { enumerable: true, configurable: true }) what order enumerable/configurable are gotten?
  23. # [00:36] <jwalden> that ordering I am happy to have spec'd :-)
  24. # [00:36] <heycam> jwalden, yeah
  25. # [00:36] <jwalden> good, good
  26. # [00:36] <Hixie> heycam: i think it's going to become almost necessary given events
  27. # [00:36] <heycam> hmm really?
  28. # [00:36] <Hixie> heycam: and their constructors
  29. # [00:36] <heycam> why's that?
  30. # [00:36] <Hixie> brb
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  32. # [00:38] <jwalden> event constructors taking dictionaries means you have to say what order the properties are retrieved, so that getters can have effects in the proper order and all, I think
  33. # [00:38] <jwalden> and I understand the event ctors to go crazy with dictionaries, because passing all of 'em as arguments is cracktastic
  34. # [00:38] <heycam> yeah, it's a much nicer pattern to use
  35. # [00:39] <heycam> still not sure why partial dictionaries are required though
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  37. # [00:40] <Hixie> heycam: sorry, back
  38. # [00:40] <Hixie> heycam: say i want to add a member to MouseEvent
  39. # [00:41] <heycam> and you don't want to ask annevk to do it? :)
  40. # [00:41] <Hixie> heycam: how do i do that, assuming i'm not a mainstream spec (i.e. who can convince microsoft ot add it)
  41. # [00:41] <heycam> fork the spec? :)
  42. # [00:42] <Hixie> that seems like a bit of a heavyweight for one extra member :-P
  43. # [00:42] <heycam> how are you going to use this extra member?
  44. # [00:42] <heycam> I mean, what function is going to look at it?
  45. # [00:43] <Hixie> i would want to add a member to the dictionary so that it can be passed to the constructor so that it can set a new member i would also add to the MouseEvent interface
  46. # [00:43] <Hixie> same way as all the other members on event init dictionaries
  47. # [00:44] <heycam> I see, so you wouldn't need to redefine the constructor, because it's already written in terms of whatever members exist on the dictionary
  48. # [00:44] <Hixie> right
  49. # [00:45] <heycam> if we have two partial dictionary definitions, how do we decide how they are ordered?
  50. # [00:45] <heycam> currently dictionary members are defined to be got in the order they appear in the IDL
  51. # [00:46] <heycam> with ones on ancestors got before ones on descendants
  52. # [00:46] <Hixie> change the definition to be alphabetical :-)
  53. # [00:46] <heycam> yeah that's one way! :)
  54. # [00:48] <paul_irish> jwalden: browserstack has ie10pp2 to play with
  55. # [00:48] <jwalden> paul_irish: ooh, it does? good to know for next time (I got an answer in #developers a second ago)
  56. # [00:49] <jwalden> although, I think pp2 is before they went to only-available-with-a-new-OS system, and I actually have that preview installed
  57. # [00:49] <paul_irish> correctomundo
  58. # [00:49] * jwalden is not interested in blowing away his working OS solely to test IE10 :-)
  59. # [00:49] <heycam> Hixie, I guess we could even be consistent with current ordering (in case there is a reliance on order already, which I guess is unlikely) by doing the alphabetical thing only for the partial-included dictionary members
  60. # [00:51] <Hixie> heycam: we could do that, yeah. though generally i'm a bit suspicious of making partial dicts or interfaces having detectable results since the idea is that 'partial' is just an editorial aid
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  62. # [00:51] <heycam> Hixie, yeah I guess so
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  64. # [00:52] <heycam> the alphabetical order just seems a bit funny to me
  65. # [00:53] <WeirdAl> [partial] Dictionary
  66. # [00:53] <Hixie> could order it by the sum of the unicode codepoints of the characters in the name, it's even more silly :-P
  67. # [00:53] <WeirdAl> extra attributes ftw :p
  68. # [00:53] <heycam> heh
  69. # [00:54] <jwalden> normatively order it depending on the phase of the moon
  70. # [00:54] <heycam> mint a uuid for each partial dictionary, order based on that
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  72. # [00:55] <Hixie> that goes back to the editorial details having normative effects
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  94. # [01:33] <heycam> Hixie, added partial dictionaries
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  116. # [02:40] <wycats> I have a question https://gist.github.com/2177079
  117. # [02:40] <wycats> I wrote it in a gist for clarity
  118. # [02:40] <wycats> has to do with the tokenizer spec and something HTML5lib's tests say is a ParseError, but doesn't look like it to me
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  124. # [03:07] <Sirisian> I'm looking for annevk2
  125. # [03:08] <Sirisian> Anne van Kesteren <-- that guy
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  128. # [03:19] <Hixie> heycam: wow, that's good service. thanks dude!
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  130. # [03:23] <wycats> Hixie: any thoughts on the above?
  131. # [03:23] <wycats> is the test just wrong?
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  135. # [03:37] <Hixie> wycats: end tags aren't allowed to have attribute
  136. # [03:37] <Hixie> s
  137. # [03:37] <Hixie> wycats: search for "When an end tag token is emitted with attributes, that is a parse error."
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  139. # [03:41] <wycats> Hixie: ah
  140. # [03:41] <wycats> so the parse error happens when the end tag is being emitted
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  166. # [06:45] <Hixie> Sirisian: anne's often around. he's in the CET timezone.
  167. # [06:46] <Sirisian> Ah thanks. :)
  168. # [06:48] <Sirisian> It's kind of funny. I have a friend that believes it's impossible to get things added to specs and it's pointless to try so I'm going around against getting his change implemented in the spec and all browsers to prove him wrong. :P
  169. # [06:48] <Sirisian> Basically this bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16502
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  173. # [07:12] <Hixie> heh
  174. # [07:12] <Hixie> i wish Mac OS did something sane with multiple monitors
  175. # [07:13] <Hixie> their fullscreen thing drives me crazy
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  231. # [13:52] <Ms2ger> jgraham, localStorage.key(-1) === undefined in Opera
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  238. # [14:19] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, ping
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  241. # [14:34] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, thanks
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  247. # [15:27] <smaug____> Um, Web Audio draft still doesn't say what various AudioNode types actually do
  248. # [15:28] <hsivonen> hmm. http://www.fsf.org/news/announcing-js-labels
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  251. # [15:33] <hsivonen> I wonder if RMS had a position about non-free PostScript programs back in the day when *nix-minded people sent .ps files over the network
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  253. # [15:41] <smaug____> how can anyone test web audio
  254. # [15:41] <smaug____> if it doesn't define what is the expected output of audionodes :/
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  259. # [16:03] <Dashiva> hsivonen: Or word macros :P
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  263. # [16:38] <hsivonen> Dashiva: I expect RMS not to read Word files
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  291. # [18:10] <Dashiva> hsivonen: He doesn't use javascript either, since he reads web pages in emacs
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  320. # [20:00] <yuhong> <jgraham> I think you are making the erroneous assumption that calling something a "standard" makes it magical
  321. # [20:01] <yuhong> I think this would be good: http://hsivonen.iki.fi/almost-precedent/
  322. # [20:01] <yuhong> "Mode Switches are a Product of Their Time" section, in particular.
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  390. # Session Close: Sun Mar 25 00:00:00 2012

The end :)