Options:
- # Session Start: Sat Apr 07 00:00:01 2012
- # Session Ident: #whatwg
- # [00:04] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.244.11.237) (Quit: othermaciej)
- # [00:04] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
- # [00:06] <zewt> heh, gmail's gui editor has become next to unusable
- # [00:06] <zewt> delete one line of quotes, the entire block disappears
- # [00:07] * Quits: yoshu (~josh@150.135.119.40) (Quit: yoshu)
- # [00:08] <TabAtkins> Solution: stop using a gui editor.
- # [00:09] <TabAtkins> Or use the gui editor in the way most people do, bottomquoting the entire preceding message.
- # [00:09] <zewt> that's too much of a pain in the ass with gmail, because if you don't send the mail in gui mode, it sends a horribly pre-wrapped 80-column mail
- # [00:10] <zewt> so i'd have to switch back and forth each time (or manually formatting-kill every time)
- # [00:12] <Hixie> pine.
- # [00:12] * Joins: yoshu (~josh@150.135.119.40)
- # [00:13] <zewt> gross
- # [00:13] <zewt> i think i used that in highschool, heh
- # [00:13] <Hixie> that's what i use for all my e-mail. :-)
- # [00:13] <zewt> that must be why it takes you six months to reply to mail :P
- # [00:14] <Hixie> nah, it's the other way around
- # [00:14] <Hixie> it'd be longer with a gui editor
- # [00:21] * Quits: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [00:22] * TabAtkins just realized he doesn't have to match the grammar exactly with his parser; he just has to capture the same behavior.
- # [00:22] <TabAtkins> Duh.
- # [00:24] <TabAtkins> In particular, the grammar goes through some contortions to express things like "selectors can be basically anything!" and to produce a good structure for error-recovery.
- # [00:24] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159)
- # [00:25] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [00:34] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
- # [00:36] * Quits: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5) (Quit: astearns)
- # [00:36] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
- # [00:42] * GPHemsley is now known as GHemsley
- # [00:42] * GHemsley is now known as GPH-Laptop
- # [00:42] * GPH-Laptop is now known as GPH-Nikko
- # [00:42] * GPH-Nikko is now known as GPH-Zeke
- # [00:42] * GPH-Zeke is now known as GPH-Gulch
- # [00:43] * GPH-Gulch is now known as GPHemsley
- # [00:44] <Hixie> heycam|away: you should provide a spec subscription model for webidl like i have for html :-)
- # [00:53] * Joins: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:68e9:6b13:a37e:5b66)
- # [01:03] * Joins: rniwa_ (rniwa@nat/google/x-bqchazlacjcfmhop)
- # [01:03] * Quits: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-wdmznpeqgotlqsay) (Quit: rniwa)
- # [01:03] * rniwa_ is now known as rniwa
- # [01:04] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@99-7-170-126.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [01:08] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:48f3:a47f:20f1:4340) (Quit: jonlee)
- # [01:08] * Joins: karega (~karegaani@64.124.202.222)
- # [01:13] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-89-66-138-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
- # [01:15] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:a5af:460b:450a:8b51)
- # [01:20] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-149-170-217.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [01:20] * Joins: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5)
- # [01:22] * Quits: yoshu (~josh@150.135.119.40) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [01:22] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:a5af:460b:450a:8b51) (Quit: jonlee)
- # [01:23] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:a5af:460b:450a:8b51)
- # [01:23] * Quits: jsbell (jsbell@nat/google/x-fkpectonfvmfifoi) (Quit: There's no place like home...)
- # [01:28] * Quits: karega (~karegaani@64.124.202.222) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [01:34] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.28.33) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [01:34] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.28.33)
- # [01:34] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.28.33) (Client Quit)
- # [01:37] * Quits: dave_levin (dave_levin@nat/google/x-gpqqdrguqeaetvah) (Quit: dave_levin)
- # [01:43] * Quits: tndrH (~Rob@adsl-178-78-80-61.karoo.kcom.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.1/2008072406])
- # [01:44] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159) (Quit: othermaciej)
- # [01:46] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-4.1450hg.fc15 [XULRunner 10.0.1/20120216115618])
- # [01:48] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159)
- # [01:49] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159) (Client Quit)
- # [01:49] * Joins: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90)
- # [01:51] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159)
- # [01:54] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159) (Client Quit)
- # [01:58] * Joins: yoshu (~josh@wsip-70-184-72-8.tc.ph.cox.net)
- # [02:03] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:a5af:460b:450a:8b51) (Quit: jonlee)
- # [02:05] * Quits: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [02:06] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:b441:c442:62b6:43db)
- # [02:06] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55)
- # [02:07] * Quits: yoshu (~josh@wsip-70-184-72-8.tc.ph.cox.net) (Quit: yoshu)
- # [02:09] * Joins: yoshu (~josh@wsip-70-184-72-8.tc.ph.cox.net)
- # [02:10] * Quits: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [02:11] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55)
- # [02:13] * Quits: jernoble (~jernoble@2620:149:4:1b01:20ac:cc68:6258:9d8b) (Quit: jernoble)
- # [02:15] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 14.0a1/20120406190718])
- # [02:15] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
- # [02:32] * Quits: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5) (Quit: astearns)
- # [02:33] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f732098.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [02:34] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159)
- # [02:34] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@mda0536d0.tmodns.net)
- # [02:35] * Quits: pablof (~pablof@144.189.101.1) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
- # [02:36] * Quits: ap (~ap@2620:149:4:1b01:68e9:6b13:a37e:5b66) (Quit: ap)
- # [02:39] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.89.159) (Quit: othermaciej)
- # [02:40] * Quits: rniwa (rniwa@nat/google/x-bqchazlacjcfmhop) (Quit: rniwa)
- # [02:41] * Quits: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-148-140-125.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310193349])
- # [02:42] * Quits: yoshu (~josh@wsip-70-184-72-8.tc.ph.cox.net) (Quit: yoshu)
- # [02:43] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8647E3.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [02:43] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de)
- # [02:44] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de) (Client Quit)
- # [02:44] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de)
- # [02:49] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@nat/mozilla/x-xtgwebqznnpprufq) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
- # [02:51] * Quits: gkellogg_ (~gregg@c-98-248-150-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [02:51] * Joins: gkellogg (~gregg@c-98-248-150-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [02:51] * Quits: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B137C3B.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [02:51] * Quits: hdv (u2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-najdnwhbnxdqukvs) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [02:52] * Joins: hdv (u2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ubxgjhaxfjoxpkdj)
- # [02:56] * Joins: Druid_ (~Druid@p5B135383.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [03:04] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-89-66-138-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [03:23] * Quits: jwalden (~waldo@2620:101:8003:200:224:d7ff:fef0:8d90) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [03:27] * Quits: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:b441:c442:62b6:43db) (Quit: jonlee)
- # [03:28] * Joins: jonlee (~jonlee@2620:149:4:1b01:d125:8b0c:8865:9e0b)
- # [03:28] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [03:40] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@206-80-17-29.static.twtelecom.net)
- # [03:42] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
- # [03:45] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@nat/mozilla/x-yowifjstdpkrqmet) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
- # [04:07] * Joins: Transformer (~Transform@ool-44c4bb0a.dyn.optonline.net)
- # [04:11] * Parts: Transformer (~Transform@ool-44c4bb0a.dyn.optonline.net)
- # [04:14] * Joins: xiinotulp (~plutoniix@125.25.19.215.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
- # [04:18] * Joins: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-36-34-26.dynamic.hinet.net)
- # [04:18] * Quits: xiinotulp (~plutoniix@125.25.19.215.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Client Quit)
- # [04:23] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.232.159)
- # [04:26] * Joins: karega (karega@cpe-76-184-236-100.tx.res.rr.com)
- # [04:29] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: tomasf)
- # [04:50] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@mda0536d0.tmodns.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
- # [04:52] * Joins: yoshu (~josh@67-1-30-156.tcso.qwest.net)
- # [04:55] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@66-87-7-122.pools.spcsdns.net)
- # [04:58] <tantek> from the archives: 5 years ago - "XML for Dummies" - http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/487522534/
- # [05:01] <zewt> who else is xml for?
- # [05:01] <zewt> (bam)
- # [05:11] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@66-87-7-122.pools.spcsdns.net) (Quit: tantek)
- # [05:28] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de)
- # [05:29] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
- # [05:41] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
- # [05:45] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@206-80-17-29.static.twtelecom.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [05:59] * Joins: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-152-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
- # [06:02] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [06:07] * Quits: yoshu (~josh@67-1-30-156.tcso.qwest.net) (Quit: yoshu)
- # [06:11] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.232.159) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [06:16] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-149-170-217.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [06:26] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com)
- # [06:27] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
- # [06:35] * Quits: jer|afk (~jernoble@c-67-188-109-7.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: jer|afk)
- # [06:39] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.188.193.145)
- # [06:41] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@u-210160014010.u04.hotspot.ne.jp)
- # [06:45] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@125.25.19.215.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [06:49] * Joins: [[zz]] (~q@125.25.19.215.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net)
- # [06:55] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [07:12] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
- # [07:20] * Quits: Seta00_ (~Seta00@seta00.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [07:22] * Joins: Seta00 (~Seta00@seta00.com)
- # [07:32] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
- # [07:35] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-112.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
- # [08:06] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
- # [08:23] * Joins: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
- # [08:34] * Quits: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@u-210160014010.u04.hotspot.ne.jp) (Quit: MikeSmith)
- # [08:46] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.188.193.145) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [08:52] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
- # [08:55] * Joins: izhak (1000@188.244.179.181)
- # [09:06] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.188.193.145)
- # [09:12] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [09:18] * Quits: izhak (1000@188.244.179.181) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [09:31] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196)
- # [09:34] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [09:43] * Joins: annevk (~annevk@a82-161-179-17.adsl.xs4all.nl)
- # [09:43] <annevk> oh yes
- # [09:43] <annevk> yay hober
- # [09:44] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [09:44] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
- # [09:46] <Ms2ger> Hrm
- # [09:46] <Ms2ger> One advantage to the previous D3E editors was that I didn't have to review so many changes...
- # [09:57] <annevk> I wish we'd be working on the UI Events spec already
- # [10:09] * Quits: sicking (~chatzilla@c-98-210-152-4.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [10:11] * Joins: Necrathex (~Necrathex@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl)
- # [10:36] <smaug____> annevk: how is that link relevant?
- # [10:36] <smaug____> I was talking about setAttributeNS
- # [10:38] <annevk> sure once you use that all bets are off
- # [10:39] <annevk> but for HTML you can just use setAttribute to modify existing namespaced attributes
- # [10:40] <smaug____> you can, but you don't have to
- # [10:40] <smaug____> which is a problem
- # [10:41] <smaug____> so if you use setAttributeNS and filter is for name, attribute handling gets trickier
- # [10:41] <smaug____> I think we should focus on non-namespaced attributes, and get them work better
- # [10:41] <smaug____> and in that case namespace is null, and localname == name
- # [10:41] <annevk> how would they work better?
- # [10:43] * smaug____ could point annevk to sicking's bugzilla comment :)
- # [10:44] <annevk> the scenario where you only care about non-namespaced attributes and yet lots of namespaced attributes are mutated seems pretty alien to me
- # [10:45] <annevk> and especially combined with the fact that'd you use the same attribute name in the non-namespace and a namespace
- # [10:46] <annevk> xlink:value doesn't exist btw
- # [10:46] <smaug____> xlink:href does
- # [10:46] <Ms2ger> xlink :(
- # [10:46] <smaug____> indeed
- # [10:47] <annevk> smaug____: yeah and when used in a non-namespaced context such as HTML it'll be prefixed
- # [10:47] <annevk> and then you can filter href, xlink:href and it's all cool
- # [10:48] <annevk> using your scheme observing link mutations in a HTML document that has some SVG becomes much harder
- # [10:48] <smaug____> annevk: why is it prefixed?
- # [10:48] <smaug____> if you use setAttributeNS
- # [10:48] <annevk> because it has to be to work in HTML
- # [10:48] <annevk> setAttributeNS doesn't change the prefix
- # [10:49] <smaug____> if you do htmlelement.setAttributeNS("xlinkns", "href", "http://foobar.com");
- # [10:50] <annevk> why optimize for unlikely scenarios?
- # [10:51] <smaug____> er
- # [10:51] <smaug____> optimize for the common scenario
- # [10:51] <smaug____> where attributes don't have namespace
- # [10:51] <annevk> right, and namespaced attributes have a fixed prefix
- # [10:52] <smaug____> namespaced attributes don't have a fixed prefix
- # [10:52] <smaug____> they have fixed prefix only for parsing purposes
- # [10:52] <smaug____> but you can create attributes also other ways
- # [10:53] <smaug____> and this API is about mutations, so it is expected that those other ways are used
- # [10:54] <annevk> setting an XLink attribute on an HTML element seems highly unlikely
- # [10:54] <smaug____> yes
- # [10:54] <smaug____> but setting it on an svg element isn't that unlikely
- # [10:54] <annevk> right, and there you want to observe it...
- # [10:57] <smaug____> so you can't use filters
- # [10:57] <smaug____> because namespaced aren't fixed
- # [10:57] <smaug____> er, namespaces
- # [10:57] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-149-170-217.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [10:59] <smaug____> er, namespace prefixes :)
- # [11:08] * Quits: jondong (~jondong@123.126.22.58) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [11:08] * Joins: jondong (~jondong@123.126.22.58)
- # [11:09] <annevk> only if there's no such attribute with the same local name and namespace yet
- # [11:11] * Joins: tndrH (~Rob@adsl-178-78-80-61.karoo.kcom.com)
- # [11:11] * Quits: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [11:12] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
- # [11:15] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
- # [11:16] <annevk> hahaha
- # [11:17] <annevk> example.com is our number two most referenced URL
- # [11:28] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5B326B03.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [11:32] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326D40.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
- # [11:34] * Joins: JohnAlbin_ (~JohnAlbin@114-36-34-26.dynamic.hinet.net)
- # [11:37] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-36-34-26.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
- # [11:37] * JohnAlbin_ is now known as JohnAlbin
- # [11:43] * Quits: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [11:44] * Joins: kinetik (~kinetik@121.98.132.55)
- # [12:07] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
- # [12:20] <Ms2ger> zewt++
- # [12:28] * Joins: benjoffe_ (~benjoffe@119-252-71-224.static.highway1.net.au)
- # [12:29] * Quits: benjoff__ (~benjoffe@119-252-71-224.static.highway1.net.au) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [12:39] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
- # [12:48] * Joins: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:fcdd:79d0:a62:357c)
- # [12:54] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84e39e.pool.mediaWays.net)
- # [13:32] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
- # [13:39] * Joins: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-148-140-125.range86-148.btcentralplus.com)
- # [13:43] * Joins: GPHemsley (~GPHemsley@pdpc/supporter/student/GPHemsley)
- # [14:07] * Joins: tomasf_ (~tom@c-b7dbe555.024-204-6c6b7012.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
- # [14:07] * Quits: tomasf (~tom@2002:55e5:dbb7:0:fcdd:79d0:a62:357c) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [14:07] * tomasf_ is now known as tomasf
- # [14:10] <Ms2ger> The "bathtub" approach?
- # [14:22] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84e39e.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [14:33] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [14:33] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [14:35] * Joins: izhak (1000@188.244.178.249)
- # [14:38] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [14:40] * Quits: Necrathex (~Necrathex@82-170-160-25.ip.telfort.nl) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [14:45] * Joins: myakura (~myakura@FL1-110-233-178-43.tky.mesh.ad.jp)
- # [14:51] * Joins: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
- # [14:52] * Quits: [[zz]] (~q@125.25.19.215.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [14:52] * Quits: plutoniix (~plutoniix@125.25.19.215.adsl.dynamic.totbb.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [15:04] * Joins: [[zz]] (~q@182.53.48.215)
- # [15:05] * Joins: plutoniix (~plutoniix@182.53.48.215)
- # [15:16] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [15:23] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
- # [15:26] * Joins: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-102-247.dynamic.qsc.de)
- # [15:29] * Joins: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
- # [15:31] <zewt> postincrement me, will you
- # [15:36] * Joins: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.233.212)
- # [15:38] * Quits: myakura (~myakura@FL1-110-233-178-43.tky.mesh.ad.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [15:43] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
- # [15:52] * Quits: esc_ (~esc_ape@178.115.251.173.wireless.dyn.drei.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [15:55] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
- # [16:07] <Ms2ger> ++zewt
- # [16:09] * Quits: karega (karega@cpe-76-184-236-100.tx.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
- # [16:26] * Quits: jdong_bot_ (~jdong_bot@117.79.233.212) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [16:39] * Quits: izhak (1000@188.244.178.249) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [16:47] * Quits: nessy (~Adium@124-149-170-217.dyn.iinet.net.au) (Quit: Leaving.)
- # [16:54] * Joins: izhak (1000@188.244.178.249)
- # [17:06] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de)
- # [17:10] * Quits: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [17:15] * Joins: th3_Chr1s (~christoph@pD9ED7244.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [17:17] * Quits: izhak (1000@188.244.178.249) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [17:28] * Quits: yutak (~yutak@2401:fa00:4:1004:baac:6fff:fe99:adfb) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [17:30] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
- # [17:30] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de)
- # [17:43] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5d84e39e.pool.mediaWays.net)
- # [18:14] * Joins: graememcc_ (~chatzilla@host86-148-24-242.range86-148.btcentralplus.com)
- # [18:14] * Quits: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-148-140-125.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [18:14] * graememcc_ is now known as graememcc
- # [18:25] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [18:26] * Quits: maikmerten (~maikmerte@port-92-201-102-247.dynamic.qsc.de) (Quit: Leaving)
- # [18:34] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [18:35] * Joins: ehsan__ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [18:37] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Read error: Operation timed out)
- # [18:37] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [18:40] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [18:42] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [18:43] * Quits: ehsan__ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
- # [18:45] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@YZKMMMCIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi)
- # [18:46] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) (Client Quit)
- # [18:51] <wycats> I'm looking at the html5lib tokenizer tests, and they claim that tokenizing just plain "\u000B" is a parse error. The only place I can see reference to 000B is in the entity parsing algorithm. I don't see any reason for plain "\u000B" to enter the entity parsing algorithm. Why is it a parse error?
- # [18:51] <wycats> Hixie: ^
- # [18:56] <Ms2ger> I'm not sure if those parts of the tests are reliable
- # [18:58] * Joins: ehsan_ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [18:58] <Ms2ger> Ah, but it is a tree builder err
- # [18:58] <Ms2ger> or
- # [18:59] <Ms2ger> wycats, ^
- # [18:59] <wycats> Ms2ger: hm
- # [18:59] <wycats> where?
- # [18:59] <wycats> I couldn't find it
- # [18:59] <Ms2ger> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tree-construction.html#the-initial-insertion-mode
- # [19:00] <Ms2ger> Any non-space character before the doctype is a parse error
- # [19:00] <wycats> hm
- # [19:00] * Joins: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
- # [19:00] <wycats> this complicates the order in which I am writing the parser
- # [19:01] <wycats> I have to get the tree builder involved now
- # [19:01] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [19:01] <wycats> maybe I should just strip out parse errors from the tests for now?
- # [19:01] <Ms2ger> Well, AIUI, you can't write a standalone tokenizer
- # [19:12] * Joins: cabanier (~IceChat9@64.134.128.65)
- # [19:14] <Hixie> wycats: i assume you mean a string consisting of just a single U+000B?
- # [19:14] <Hixie> wycats: that's an error for multiple reasons, including lack of DOCTYPE
- # [19:18] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [19:19] * Joins: ehsan__ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [19:19] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:20] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@173-228-85-36.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
- # [19:20] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196)
- # [19:21] <Philip`> wycats: The html5lib tokenizer tests are meant to run without a tree constructor, including the parse errors
- # [19:21] * Quits: ehsan_ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [19:22] <wycats> Hixie: it shouldn't be a tokenizer error, though
- # [19:22] <wycats> but Ms2ger is correct
- # [19:22] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
- # [19:23] <Hixie> the spec doesn't distinguish between tokenizer errors and tree errors
- # [19:23] <wycats> on the other hand Philip` seems to be saying something different
- # [19:23] <Hixie> there's just parse errors
- # [19:23] <wycats> Hixie: I understand
- # [19:23] <wycats> my question is largely about the html5lib tests, and I would leave it at that except that Philip` seems to have some info about the tokenizer tests being designed to run without a tree constructor
- # [19:24] <Hixie> ah, i am not the right person to ask about those tests specifically :-)
- # [19:26] * Quits: Yudai (~Yudai@pdf853eca.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
- # [19:26] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
- # [19:27] <Philip`> wycats: "Preprocessing the input stream" says it's a parse error
- # [19:27] <wycats> Hixie: no problem
- # [19:27] <wycats> Philip`: lemme look
- # [19:27] <Philip`> (along with many other characters)
- # [19:27] <wycats> aha!
- # [19:28] <wycats> the same characters that are parse errors in a character reference
- # [19:28] <Philip`> and html5lib treats the input stream as part of the tokenizer
- # [19:28] <wycats> Philip`: cool
- # [19:28] <Philip`> hence it being in the tokenizer tests
- # [19:28] <wycats> Philip`: if you're interested, what I'm working on is a browser polyfill for the HTML5 parser
- # [19:28] <wycats> mostly just for fun
- # [19:29] <wycats> there's a node-based one, but it's pretty tied up with node's streaming semantics
- # [19:29] <wycats> and I'm trying to stick closer to the spec for now, just for educational purposes
- # [19:32] <Hixie> annevk: every member in HTML has to change somehow, because I currently check for infinity/nan myself for every member.
- # [19:36] * Joins: karega (karega@cpe-76-184-236-100.tx.res.rr.com)
- # [19:36] <Ms2ger> Only I always have to point out to people that you do :)
- # [19:39] <Hixie> it's not clear to me that moving it to a different spec is going to make that better ;-)
- # [19:39] * Joins: Yudai (~Yudai@pdf853f04.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [19:39] <wycats> Philip`: so if I follow the preprocessing rules, that should be enough for the tests?
- # [19:41] <Ms2ger> I think the fact that WebIDL used to allow passing through NaN/Infinity, but you caught it somewhere between WebIDL and your algorithms made it particularly hard
- # [19:41] * Quits: Yudai (~Yudai@pdf853f04.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [19:43] * Quits: ehsan__ (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [19:44] * Joins: Yudai (~Yudai@pa9ad97.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [19:48] * Quits: Yudai (~Yudai@pa9ad97.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [19:52] <Philip`> wycats: Yeah, preprocessing plus tokenizing should be enough for the tests
- # [19:53] <Philip`> though if you don't closely follow the spec then number/position of parse errors may change
- # [19:54] <Philip`> (I think validator.nu doesn't match parse errors precisely)
- # [19:54] <wycats> Philip`: my setup should guarantee the proper position of the parse errors
- # [19:54] <wycats> here's an example of a state definition: https://gist.github.com/2330820
- # [19:55] <wycats> token is the current token, next is the character that was just consumed
- # [19:55] <wycats> tokens is the token stream
- # [19:55] <wycats> errorState emits a parse error and switches states
- # [19:55] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [19:55] <wycats> as you can see, it's pretty close to the spec text, so the parse error positions should be exact
- # [19:57] <wycats> Philip`: is it expected to get two parse errors for character references containing the illegal characters?
- # [19:57] <wycats> once due to the preprocessing and once due to http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/tokenization.html#tokenizing-character-references
- # [19:58] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [19:58] <Hixie> sweet kittens did you really just reference the TR/ page version of the spec
- # [20:03] * Joins: Yudai (~Yudai@pc6082a.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [20:07] * Quits: Yudai (~Yudai@pc6082a.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [20:16] <zewt> awooga awooga
- # [20:16] * Quits: karega (karega@cpe-76-184-236-100.tx.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [20:18] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [20:21] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [20:21] * Quits: cabanier (~IceChat9@64.134.128.65) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
- # [20:22] * Joins: Yudai (~Yudai@pc60bd0.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [20:27] * Quits: Yudai (~Yudai@pc60bd0.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [20:30] * Joins: timmywil (~timmywil@host-68-169-154-67.WISOLT2.epbfi.com)
- # [20:39] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [20:44] * Joins: Yudai (~Yudai@pa9b367.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [20:50] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
- # [21:02] * Joins: Yudai_ (~Yudai@pa9ac47.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [21:05] * Quits: Yudai (~Yudai@pa9b367.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [21:12] * Joins: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241)
- # [21:14] * Joins: karega (~karegaani@ip67-152-104-162.z104-152-67.customer.algx.net)
- # [21:15] * Joins: astearns (~astearns@192.150.22.5)
- # [21:17] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [21:19] * Quits: Yudai_ (~Yudai@pa9ac47.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
- # [21:19] * Joins: nesta_ (~nesta_@84.122.99.242.dyn.user.ono.com)
- # [21:20] * Joins: Yudai_ (~Yudai@pa9b062.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [21:22] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [21:33] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
- # [21:35] * Joins: Yudai__ (~Yudai@p436a77.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [21:37] * Quits: Yudai_ (~Yudai@pa9b062.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [21:41] * Joins: Yudai___ (~Yudai@p4ab6da.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [21:42] * Quits: Yudai__ (~Yudai@p436a77.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [21:47] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [21:48] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
- # [21:50] * Quits: karega (~karegaani@ip67-152-104-162.z104-152-67.customer.algx.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
- # [21:53] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [21:56] * Joins: Yudai____ (~Yudai@p4ab5df.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [21:57] * Quits: ehsan (~ehsan@209.29.21.241) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [21:57] * Quits: Yudai___ (~Yudai@p4ab6da.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [21:57] * Joins: graememcc_ (~chatzilla@host86-150-88-18.range86-150.btcentralplus.com)
- # [21:59] * Joins: Yudai_____ (~Yudai@pa9b242.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [21:59] * Quits: graememcc (~chatzilla@host86-148-24-242.range86-148.btcentralplus.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [21:59] * graememcc_ is now known as graememcc
- # [22:02] * Quits: Yudai____ (~Yudai@p4ab5df.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [22:05] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [22:06] * Quits: Yudai_____ (~Yudai@pa9b242.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [22:06] * Quits: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [22:08] <Philip`> wycats: I'm not quite sure what case you meant
- # [22:17] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196)
- # [22:18] * Joins: karega (~karegaani@cpe-76-184-236-100.tx.res.rr.com)
- # [22:21] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [22:21] * Joins: Yudai_____ (~Yudai@p4ab51f.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [22:22] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
- # [22:26] * Quits: timmywil (~timmywil@host-68-169-154-67.WISOLT2.epbfi.com) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
- # [22:30] * Joins: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
- # [22:41] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # [22:42] * Quits: Yudai_____ (~Yudai@p4ab51f.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
- # [22:42] * Quits: linclark (~clark@c-67-186-35-246.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: linclark)
- # [22:48] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
- # [22:48] * Joins: Yudai_____ (~Yudai@pa9b0f6.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [22:48] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com)
- # [22:53] * Joins: Yudai______ (~Yudai@p436e31.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [22:53] * Joins: ciluu (~ciluu@2a01:270:201f:0:20c:29ff:fe66:da98)
- # [22:54] * Quits: Yudai_____ (~Yudai@pa9b0f6.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [23:00] <annevk> Hixie: yeah have these generic rules at the top of the spec that are only overridden for canvas
- # [23:01] <annevk> Hixie: the new double aligns with those restrictions in throwing for Nan/Infinity
- # [23:01] <annevk> s/yeah/you/ ...
- # [23:01] <Hixie> yup
- # [23:06] * Quits: Yudai______ (~Yudai@p436e31.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
- # [23:08] * Joins: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
- # [23:10] * Joins: nessy (~Adium@124-149-170-217.dyn.iinet.net.au)
- # [23:12] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196)
- # [23:12] * Quits: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [23:14] * Quits: karega (~karegaani@cpe-76-184-236-100.tx.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
- # [23:17] * Joins: JohnAlbin_ (~JohnAlbin@114-42-52-193.dynamic.hinet.net)
- # [23:20] * Quits: JohnAlbin (~JohnAlbin@114-36-34-26.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
- # [23:20] * JohnAlbin_ is now known as JohnAlbin
- # [23:21] <wycats> Philip`: ahh... the case I was looking at was &#..., which won't be invalid in the preprocessing phase
- # [23:21] <wycats> because it's just a number there
- # [23:22] <annevk> wycats: what are you writing the parser in?
- # [23:22] * Joins: Yudai______ (~Yudai@p436a5f.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp)
- # [23:26] * Joins: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl)
- # [23:26] <Philip`> wycats: Indeed
- # [23:29] <wycats> annevk: JS
- # [23:30] <wycats> so far I'm probably 70% done with the tokenizer
- # [23:30] <wycats> I'm missing doctype, script, and entities in attribute values
- # [23:30] <wycats> annevk: specifically, browser-friendly JS
- # [23:31] <wycats> there's something written in node, but it makes heavy use of Node's streaming stuff
- # [23:31] <wycats> I also wanted the code to somewhat resemble the spec for pedagogical reasons
- # [23:31] <annevk> wycats: did you have a look at flanagan's code?
- # [23:31] <wycats> annevk: I googled hard and didn't find anything
- # [23:31] <wycats> link please
- # [23:32] <annevk> wycats: http://www.davidflanagan.com/2011/10/html-parsing-wi.html
- # [23:32] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-124-199.dynamic.hinet.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
- # [23:32] <annevk> wycats: https://github.com/andreasgal/dom.js/blob/master/src/impl/HTMLParser.js
- # [23:33] <wycats> I hope my code will not end up to be 250k
- # [23:33] <wycats> but unknown
- # [23:33] <wycats> maybe it will
- # [23:33] <annevk> probably a lot of it is the named character references
- # [23:33] <wycats> hm bigger problem
- # [23:33] <wycats> it seems to heavily use ES5 features
- # [23:34] <wycats> https://github.com/andreasgal/dom.js/blob/master/src/impl/HTMLParser.js#L155
- # [23:34] <wycats> half the point of what I'm doing is as a polyfill for browsers without HTML5 parsers
- # [23:34] <wycats> so I can't use new features
- # [23:34] <annevk> kk
- # [23:34] <wycats> :/
- # [23:34] <wycats> too bad
- # [23:34] <annevk> anyway, you might be able to borrow some
- # [23:34] <gsnedders> How are you getting the original HTML to reparse?
- # [23:35] <wycats> gsnedders: it's for things like innerHTML
- # [23:35] <wycats> where you have the string already
- # [23:35] <wycats> and you want a document fragment
- # [23:35] <wycats> if all goes well, I'll also be able to prototype the context-free parser stuff
- # [23:35] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-121-239.dynamic.hinet.net)
- # [23:35] <wycats> the stuff from the <template> discussion
- # [23:39] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
- # [23:47] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
- # [23:55] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.161.196) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
- # [23:57] * Joins: foolip_ (~foolip@h128n3-g-hn-a11.ias.bredband.telia.com)
- # [23:58] * Parts: th3_Chr1s (~christoph@pD9ED7244.dip.t-dialin.net)
- # [23:59] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8658F1.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
- # Session Close: Sun Apr 08 00:00:00 2012
The end :)