/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-04-15 / end

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  54. # [06:31] <Hixie> jgraham: why is the core mobile web not the same as the core desktop web, core tv web, core print web, core AT web, core braille web, and core tablet web?
  55. # [06:39] <zewt> they're all the same, some are just more same than others?
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  61. # [07:22] * Joins: Von_Davidicus (~IceChat7@173.210.203.196)
  62. # [07:23] <Von_Davidicus> A serious question on some advice I've received: I wrote a tutorial on HTML 4.01, and someone suggested I should simply "update in places that need it". Would it really be that simple, or should I rewrite my book from beginning to end?
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  67. # [07:38] <sam___> hello hello
  68. # [07:39] <Von_Davidicus> Hello.
  69. # [07:41] <sam___> um, im encountering a weird html problem
  70. # [07:41] <sam___> mind taking a look for me?
  71. # [07:41] * Von_Davidicus MIGHT be able to help....
  72. # [07:41] * Von_Davidicus is still an old-school HTML 4.01 coder, though
  73. # [07:44] <sam___> no problem
  74. # [07:45] <sam___> the problem is that the contents in a p tag is breaking out of the container somehow
  75. # [07:45] <sam___> i'm generating the html using python, it doesn't happen if i use pure html...
  76. # [07:46] <Von_Davidicus> That's a new one...
  77. # [07:46] <sam___> how come i cant send msg in #html????
  78. # [07:47] * Von_Davidicus has never used Python in his life, so can't answer that question.
  79. # [07:47] <sam___> k here's a link to the project i'm working on, it's a school project, so Im using a free domain as a redirector
  80. # [07:48] <sam___> http://www.luxuryparadise.co.nr/
  81. # [07:48] <sam___> search for "a" and click on the result, check the right hand side where it says "recent messages" click on "show more" around that area, and you will see the problem
  82. # [07:50] <Von_Davidicus> I don't see a "showmore", nor recent messages.
  83. # [07:52] <sam___> are you sure??? do u see the account details then?
  84. # [07:53] <Von_Davidicus> Asdfasdfdf Asdf
  85. # [07:53] <Von_Davidicus> Email: asdf@asdf.com
  86. # [07:53] <Von_Davidicus> Sex: Not specified
  87. # [07:54] <Von_Davidicus> That is what I see.
  88. # [07:54] <sam___> oh u gotta click on it
  89. # [07:54] <sam___> click on the supposed user name
  90. # [07:54] <sam___> i think ur still on the search result page
  91. # [07:55] <Von_Davidicus> Ah. Where you have a very, very long "word
  92. # [07:55] <Von_Davidicus> "?
  93. # [07:55] <sam___> do u see a bunch of messages?
  94. # [07:56] <sam___> where it says "fasdfasd......."
  95. # [07:56] <sam___> lol
  96. # [07:56] <Von_Davidicus> Yes.
  97. # [07:57] <sam___> the div's height is not set, it's supposed to grow as more contents are put in there
  98. # [07:57] <sam___> why is this happening?
  99. # [07:57] <sam___> i tried copying all the code including html css and js into jsfiddle
  100. # [07:57] <sam___> and suddenly everything works fine
  101. # [07:57] <Von_Davidicus> Thing is, it's all ONE word, and in comments (at least from what I've seen), such overflow is a headache on many sites.
  102. # [07:57] <sam___> btw i copied the code from chrome inspector
  103. # [07:58] <Von_Davidicus> Seriously, if someone makes a long word like that, they are being a pest and deliberately breaking the layout, so I don't think you really need to worry about it.
  104. # [07:59] <sam___> oh! i think ur right. I just added some messages that are more like words instead of a long string of text
  105. # [08:00] <Von_Davidicus> Yeah, really long words often do that.
  106. # [08:02] <sam___> another thing is Im using a jquery plugin that collapses words or elements when it gets too long. I used it on the divs, that's why the "show more" link is there
  107. # [08:02] <sam___> but when I use the plugin on the messages, which is p.sendermessage, it's not working any more
  108. # [08:03] <sam___> again, it works if I used pure html, instead of this python generated one
  109. # [08:03] <sam___> i don't know if it's python that messes thing up, but that's the only reason i can think of
  110. # [08:03] <Von_Davidicus> *Nods.* I do stuff on a lot of online art galleries, and one thing that annoys a lot of artists if a comment is something like "loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool"
  111. # [08:04] <Von_Davidicus> It messes with the layout.
  112. # [08:07] <sam___> haha
  113. # [08:07] <sam___> ok i get how it's messing up the layout, but it shouldn't affect jquery
  114. # [08:22] <sam___> oh well, that's not a big deal now.
  115. # [08:22] <sam___> Thanks Von!
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  118. # [08:38] <Von_Davidicus> I've read some HTML5 posts that say that JavaScript is the only scripting language on the web--but the most popular browser (IE) also supports VBScript. That being said, is VBScript indeed so uncommon that JavaScript could be considered the only scripting language on the web?
  119. # [08:39] <annevk> yes
  120. # [08:41] <Von_Davidicus> Since IE is so common, one could almost put aside the argument "well, only one browser supports it", so why else is VBScript that rare?
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  122. # [08:44] <annevk> why bother if there's JavaScript that works everywhere
  123. # [08:45] <Von_Davidicus> True. I just wondered if VBScript was more limited in its capabilities as well.
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  125. # [08:52] <Von_Davidicus> Certainly, I never could get it to do much.
  126. # [09:00] <j_wright> you could actually add other languages to IE, i remember a TclScript and a PerlScript
  127. # [09:00] <Von_Davidicus> I've heard of PerlScript. Never tried it, though.
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  129. # [09:01] <j_wright> i think it was more used, still not much though, in iis
  130. # [09:02] <Von_Davidicus> A serious question on some advice I've received: I wrote a tutorial on HTML 4.01, and someonesuggested I should simply "update in places that need it". Would it really be that simple, or should I rewrite my book from beginning to end?
  131. # [09:03] <j_wright> update in places seems fair
  132. # [09:03] <j_wright> its not like its xhtml 2
  133. # [09:03] <annevk> seems kind of hard to say without having seen the book
  134. # [09:04] <annevk> you can have a read through http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/
  135. # [09:04] <Von_Davidicus> It was written to be the kind of tutorial I wish *I'd* had when learning HTML. My book starts at the level of "<" starts a tag, ">" ends a tag.
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  140. # [09:16] <Hixie> Von_Davidicus: then you weren't teaching HTML4, you were teaching what browsers implement, and that's actually closer to the HTML spec today than it is to HTML4. :-)
  141. # [09:16] <Hixie> (in HTML4, tags start with < and end either with >, or with /, or with <.)
  142. # [09:17] <Von_Davidicus> Well, the rest of the book went into the elements of HTML 4.01/XHTML 1.0, explaining the differences between the two where they cropped up.
  143. # [09:20] <Von_Davidicus> I didn't know tags could end with < or /.
  144. # [09:20] <Hixie> <p/This is a paragraph/ is equivalent to <p>This is a paragraph</p> in HTML4
  145. # [09:20] <Hixie> not that any browser implemented it
  146. # [09:21] <Hixie> and you can say things like <p<em>This</em> is valid</p>
  147. # [09:21] <Von_Davidicus> I knew that /wasn't/ the case with XHTML.
  148. # [09:21] <Hixie> also <p<em/This/ is valid.</>
  149. # [09:21] <Hixie> (note </>)
  150. # [09:21] <Hixie> also you could use "<>" where only one element would have been valid
  151. # [09:21] <Hixie> none of this stuff was really ever implemented by browsers
  152. # [09:22] <Hixie> i think i got mozilla to do the <a<b thing for a while, but that was a mistake that we fixed when we defined parsing later
  153. # [09:22] <Von_Davidicus> So my statement of "</> is nonsense to browsers" was correct?
  154. # [09:23] <Hixie> to most user agents, yes
  155. # [09:23] <Hixie> most validators supported it, confusingly
  156. # [09:23] * Von_Davidicus based a lot of his book on either experience or experiments.
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  159. # [09:29] <Von_Davidicus> Another question: How's this for a demonstration that valid code != good webpage? http://www.mrinitialman.com/Experiments/Horror/horrors.html (Completely valid HTML 4.01 and CSS)
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  161. # [09:39] <Von_Davidicus> ???
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  163. # [09:56] <Von_Davidicus> ... you don't need the SVG namespace for an SVG graphic to be embedded?
  164. # [09:58] * Von_Davidicus is finding HTML5 more and more baffling.*
  165. # [09:59] <Ms2ger> The namespace is still there, but you don't need to write it out
  166. # [10:01] <Von_Davidicus> Does the xmlns attribute still have some use, though?
  167. # [10:03] <Ms2ger> Nope
  168. # [10:03] <Von_Davidicus> That's depressing to know.
  169. # [10:05] <Von_Davidicus> Well, at least my SVG file goes sideways when I remove it.
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  183. # [10:37] <smaug____> hmm, still today time to think about whether to attend webapps f2f
  184. # [10:38] * Von_Davidicus is almost afraid to read the HTML5 spec and see what ELSE it screws up.
  185. # [10:44] <smaug____> HTML5? I hope you read HTML
  186. # [10:47] <Von_Davidicus> I'm a longtime user of HTML 4.01 and XHTML 1.x . HTML5 is a scary, scary thing; I mean... embedding SVG should *require* XHTML, XML namespaces and, if at all possible, a Doctype that takes up half the document!
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  194. # [11:20] <jgraham> Hixie: It is, more or less (specs like device orientation are more useful on mobile than on TV though)
  195. # [11:21] <jgraham> I see the "mobile" thing as an oppertunity to ride on the coattails of fashion to get useful work done
  196. # [11:22] <jgraham> It also provides some semi-objective criteria
  197. # [11:22] <jgraham> e.g. "what features do we need to repliacte the top 100 mobile apps as web apps"
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  200. # [11:34] <Von_Davidicus> And, apparently, HTML5 won't let me throw in my own XML namespaces. Drat.
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  202. # [11:35] <Von_Davidicus> ... 400+ XML files are taking FOREVER to upload. :-@
  203. # [11:38] <smaug____> if you need namespaces, use XHTML form
  204. # [11:39] <smaug____> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-xhtml-syntax.html#the-xhtml-syntax
  205. # [11:40] <Von_Davidicus> Well, I'm poking at HTML5, and seeing if anything I remember that was needed in XHTML 1.x still applies.
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  207. # [11:52] <jgraham> Hixie: (also the market on mobile is noticably different to the market on other platforms, and not really in a better way)
  208. # [11:55] <Von_Davidicus> Question: Are the XHTML, SVG, and MathML namespaces the *only* ones allowed in HTML5?
  209. # [12:06] <Von_Davidicus> Or is there at least a limited set of namespaces allowed?
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  216. # [12:34] <Von_Davidicus> I've been thinking about the way SVG and MathML are embedded in HTML5. It seems to me that they're not tacked on, as they are with XHTML 1.1 + MathML 2.0 + SVG 1.1 where you have "islands" of different XML languages in an encompassing one, but rather that HTML5 includes the lot. Am I correct, or am I off-base?
  217. # [12:37] <Philip`> Von_Davidicus: The HTML parser is hardcoded to recognise <svg> and <math> and switch to a different parsing mode that recognises <circle> and <mfrac> etc
  218. # [12:38] <Philip`> The DOM generated by the parser is the same as what you'd get from old-fashioned XHTML1+SVG+MathML
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  220. # [12:38] <Von_Davidicus> So it's still islands of different languages--but ones the parser knows how they work, and so doesn't need the namespace to understand?
  221. # [12:40] <Philip`> Yes, it doesn't need the explicit xmlns="..." declaration, since it knows that <svg> should implicitly trigger the SVG namespace etc
  222. # [12:41] <Von_Davidicus> So it just "assumes" that namespace is there?
  223. # [12:42] <Philip`> Yes, effectively
  224. # [12:43] <Philip`> (Explicit xmlns and xmlns:* attributes are always completely ignored by the HTML parser, and usually are conformance errors)
  225. # [12:43] <Von_Davidicus> I must admit I find HTML5 baffling, since it seems to let you get away with so much more. I find myself wondering if ANY of my experience with the older HTML and XHTML is of any worth.
  226. # [12:44] <Philip`> It's designed to not force authors to jump through needless hoops for concepts like modularity and extensibility that don't actually exist in reality
  227. # [12:45] <Philip`> (hence the simpler doctype, lack of xmlns, etc)
  228. # [12:46] <Von_Davidicus> I thought extensibility did exist--unless I have the wrong idea of what it means. I thought it meant you could add in other XML languages, and I do that all the time.
  229. # [12:48] <Philip`> You can't add other XML languages in a way that makes web browsers do anything interesting with them - you can just add opaque lumps of data that scripts can read later
  230. # [12:49] <Von_Davidicus> So, basically, XHTML + SVG + MathML was the closest to that extensibility that the browsers ever got?
  231. # [12:50] <Philip`> They're the only languages that browsers interoperably do interesting things with
  232. # [12:51] <Von_Davidicus> That's basically what I meant, so I'll take that as a yes.
  233. # [12:52] <Philip`> If someone wanted to add a new language to the web platform, extending the hard-coded HTML parser rules would be a trivial task compared to the other effort required in getting consensus and decent implementations, so xmlns-style syntactic extensibility is optimising the trivial problem and not the hard ones
  234. # [12:53] <Philip`> I didn't say "yes" because they're not really examples of 'extensibility' - they're just examples of web browsers implementing features in a centralised fashion :-)
  235. # [12:54] <Von_Davidicus> What I said was the -closest- that browsers got, not an actual example. :)
  236. # [12:54] <Philip`> (unless you count the SVG/MathML plugins for IE, which I suppose are examples of real implementation extensibility)
  237. # [12:54] <Philip`> ((though seemingly not hugely successful ones))
  238. # [12:55] <Von_Davidicus> I hadn't known those existed.
  239. # [12:56] <Philip`> (Adobe SVG Viewer and MathPlayer, I think)
  240. # [12:57] <Von_Davidicus> Oh. Those. Never tried them.
  241. # [13:00] <Von_Davidicus> What the heck was modularity?
  242. # [13:01] <Philip`> As in http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/ ?
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  244. # [13:14] <Von_Davidicus> Yeah, what was the whole idea behind that?
  245. # [13:14] <Philip`> As far as I'm aware, some people thought it would be fun to mess around with writing unnecessarily complex DTDs
  246. # [13:15] <Philip`> and that's about it
  247. # [13:15] <Ms2ger> Lots of booze
  248. # [13:17] <Von_Davidicus> Well, if you like *simple* DTDs.... http://www.mrinitialman.com/Experiments/showcode.php?project=ElementML&filename=elementml&filetype=dtd :D
  249. # [13:17] <Von_Davidicus> It was a joke markup language I wrote.
  250. # [13:18] <Philip`> I think the policy here is to dislike all DTDs of any kind whatsoever :-)
  251. # [13:18] * Joins: nesta_ (~nesta_@174.113.219.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  252. # [13:21] <Von_Davidicus> ...BLASPHEMY!
  253. # [13:22] <Philip`> Blasphemy is also a policy here
  254. # [13:24] <Von_Davidicus> How about goofball? Is goofball an allowed policy--specifically, the kind of goofball that would do a website with its own markup language, including DTD and XML Schema?
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  256. # [13:26] <Philip`> Such a person might not be a lost cause, if they can be convinced of the folly of DTDs and XSDs
  257. # [13:27] <Von_Davidicus> Proof for the DTD part: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fcoachrandom.zzl.org%2FChronological%2Fcomic-005.xml I had so much fun tinkering with that website.
  258. # [13:29] <Von_Davidicus> DTDs have their place; I still use XML files as databases (though I *do* know SQL). XSDs: 20 miles south of useless, really. There's not much they actually *do* that DTDs don't, and theres a few things they don't that DTDs *do*.
  259. # [13:36] <Von_Davidicus> I probably had *too* much fun, considering that site used both DTD and XSD.
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  276. # [15:12] <annevk> http://commandcenter.blogspot.com/2012/04/byte-order-fallacy.html guess he never heard of WebGL :/
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  286. # [15:38] <annevk> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/utf.pdf is pretty interesting
  287. # [15:39] <annevk> apparently the unification in Unicode was done because they tried fitting it all in 16-bit code units
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  289. # [15:46] <zewt> heh
  290. # [15:46] <zewt> seems like han unification is the main excuse for the resistance unicode still sees in cjk, or at least japan
  291. # [15:46] <zewt> (though i don't believe it's actually legitimate, more like habit)
  292. # [15:47] <annevk> I think that's mostly stopped now, although the algorithms to determine which font to pick are still not defined
  293. # [15:47] <zewt> i've had that argument relatively recently (in here, if I remember correctly), but I don't know how common it is
  294. # [15:50] <annevk> prolly here with me :)
  295. # [15:50] <zewt> no, with rniwa i think
  296. # [15:53] <annevk> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20111217#l-390
  297. # [15:55] <zewt> we weren't having the han unification argument there :)
  298. # [15:55] <zewt> http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20111201#l-198
  299. # [15:55] <annevk> oh, I thought we were discussing fonts
  300. # [16:00] <zewt> i mean the argument that "cjk people can't use unicode because something something han unification"
  301. # [16:01] <zewt> which is just false so long as you have language tagging, since you don't lose any information (it'll 1:1 to the legacy encoding)
  302. # [16:04] <Philip`> Is language tagging a less maligned concept than pre-Unicode code pages?
  303. # [16:04] <annevk> language tagging is also not feasible in a number of constructs
  304. # [16:04] <zewt> should be, since unicode depends on it for CJK
  305. # [16:04] <annevk> e.g. title=""
  306. # [16:05] <zewt> should probably do something like use the lang tag of <HTML> for that?
  307. # [16:05] <zewt> (i'd say <body>, except title is in head, so that seems weird)
  308. # [16:06] <annevk> I meant the title attribute, or the alt attribute for that matter
  309. # [16:06] <zewt> use the (effective) lang of the element it's on
  310. # [16:07] <annevk> it has the language of the element it is specified on, but if you mix things you are out of luck
  311. # [16:07] <Ms2ger> If you ever need to make something really obvious, but only for Netscape/Gecko users...
  312. # [16:07] <zewt> iirc there are also language selection control codes in unicode (but nobody will ever know how to use those)
  313. # [16:07] <Ms2ger> <font font-weight=900 point-size=50>
  314. # [16:09] <annevk> zewt: really?
  315. # [16:09] <zewt> i vaguely recall it, but I forget what they're called
  316. # [16:09] <zewt> (and I doubt anyone in the world implements them...)
  317. # [16:09] <annevk> I think Unicode only has bidi characters
  318. # [16:10] <annevk> and emoji flags
  319. # [16:10] <zewt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_control_characters#Language_tags
  320. # [16:11] <annevk> deprecated... whatever that means
  321. # [16:12] <zewt> could be made much easier to use with &names; that translate to them (not that it'd be worth it)
  322. # [16:30] <Ms2ger> <a href=foo><font color="red">text</font></a>
  323. # [16:30] <Ms2ger> What color should the underline have?
  324. # [16:32] <Philip`> Ultraviolet
  325. # [16:32] <Ms2ger> Correct
  326. # [16:32] <Philip`> Overexposure to <font> can cause skin cancer
  327. # [16:38] <zewt> Ms2ger: none. modern web pages don't underline links, figuring out what's clickable is supposed to be like playing a sierra game, click everywhere, see what happens
  328. # [16:38] <zewt> (and die if you click the wrong spot)
  329. # [16:38] <Ms2ger> Also correct
  330. # [16:39] <Ms2ger> !summon zcorpan
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  337. # [17:26] <jgraham> Ms2ger: could be hard on a Sunday
  338. # [17:26] <Ms2ger> Pff, slacker
  339. # [17:34] <jgraham> Oh my
  340. # [17:35] <jgraham> The ES 5.1 official testsuite uses sync XHR to load the tests
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  343. # [17:44] <Ms2ger> I'd fix it, but I'm not an ECMA member
  344. # [17:47] <gsnedders> Anyone know an ECMA member?
  345. # [17:48] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  346. # [17:48] <Ms2ger> I don't
  347. # [17:49] <gsnedders> (To be fair, Dave-whose-surname-I-forget tends to fix stuff quickly given bug reports)
  348. # [17:49] * Joins: LBP (~Mirc@pD9EB2222.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  349. # [17:49] <karlcow> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Anyone+know+an+ECMA+member?%22 → No results
  350. # [17:49] <Ms2ger> Herman?
  351. # [17:50] <Ms2ger> Hyatt?
  352. # [17:50] <jgraham> Herman seems more likely in context
  353. # [17:50] * jgraham wonders if there are any Daves whoese surname doesn't begin with H
  354. # [17:51] <Ms2ger> Daron?
  355. # [17:51] <Ms2ger> With a B, even
  356. # [17:51] <gsnedders> Fugate.
  357. # [17:52] <jgraham> Does anyone call dbaron Dave?
  358. # [17:53] <jgraham> That just seems wrong
  359. # [17:54] <Ms2ger> It does
  360. # [17:57] <odinho> jgraham: My CORS testsuite uses sync XHR all over the place :P I have a mustfix on that one though.
  361. # [17:58] <karlcow> jgraham: I didn't think about it… but maybe I will start. If he were wrong it would be the surest way of proving it.
  362. # [17:58] * annevk has used sync XHR too when sorting out stuff related to encodings
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  366. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> so what engine code is Firefox mobile for android built from?
  367. # [18:15] <MikeSmith> I see the http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/mobile/android tree
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  370. # [18:29] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, plain Gecko below that, I think
  371. # [18:30] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: so that's C++ code while the android app is Java app.. I'm wondering how the Java app gets built from C++ engine code
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  373. # [18:31] <Ms2ger> Around http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/widget/android/AndroidBridge.cpp I guess
  374. # [18:31] <MikeSmith> aha
  375. # [18:31] * Ms2ger tries to avoid that stuff
  376. # [18:34] <gsnedders> Probably the same way as a lot of Android apps: a minimal Java app to spawn the C++ code.
  377. # [18:35] <Ms2ger> Not terribly minimal, I'm afraid
  378. # [18:38] <smaug____> The whole UI is done in Java, I think
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  386. # [19:29] <Hixie> i just noticed... we never did add a version number to the W3C HTML Canvas 2D Context specification
  387. # [19:30] <Hixie> i wonder why the people so emphatic about not removing version numbers from HTML5 aren't clamouring to add it to other specs...
  388. # [19:31] <Ms2ger> Isn't the "2" a version number?!
  389. # [19:31] <Hixie> hah
  390. # [19:37] <karlcow> Ms2ger: and it is even followed by Canvas 3
  391. # [19:38] <karlcow> I'm impatient about the Canvas 4, enabling timetravel in Web pages.
  392. # [19:38] * Ms2ger wonders how he got 'SUPERSCRIPT MINUS' (U+207B) into this file name
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  397. # [19:48] <FedorEmelianenko> hi all
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  401. # [19:52] <annevk> Hixie: logic appears to be missing in more places than just the platform
  402. # [19:52] <annevk> (also explains the state of the platform)
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  404. # [19:53] <zewt> Hixie: if all change is bad, then adding a version number to them would be just as evil as removing it from html!
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  431. # [22:20] * Quits: GlitchMr (~glitchmr@178-36-154-236.adsl.inetia.pl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  432. # [22:21] * Quits: dydx (~dydz@76-220-18-65.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: dydx)
  433. # [23:09] * Quits: pyrsmk (~pyrsmk@mau49-1-82-245-46-173.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  434. # [23:11] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net)
  435. # [23:19] * Joins: MikeSmith (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
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  437. # [23:23] * Quits: Maurice (copyman@5ED573FA.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  438. # [23:31] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@mff0536d0.tmodns.net) (Quit: tantek)
  439. # [23:33] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  440. # [23:38] * Quits: gwicke (~gabriel@212.255.28.33) (Quit: Bye!)
  441. # [23:40] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.34.103) (Quit: nn)
  442. # [23:43] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@b0fbedcf.bb.sky.com)
  443. # [23:47] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  444. # [23:48] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  445. # [23:57] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E8649A2.versanet.de)
  446. # Session Close: Mon Apr 16 00:00:01 2012

The end :)