/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-04-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Apr 22 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:00] <gsnedders> Then the internal representation is an impl detail which isn't black-box observable.
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  6. # [00:04] <GPHemsley> gsnedders: What decides the byte-stream that the user actually sees, though?
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  8. # [00:05] <jgraham> 9doesn't gecko use not-utf-16 sometimes?)
  9. # [00:05] <jgraham> s/9/(/
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  12. # [00:12] <gsnedders> GPHemsley: Typically the browser hands off the string as UTF-16 to the platform layer.
  13. # [00:12] <GPHemsley> ah
  14. # [00:14] <gsnedders> What happens in the platform layer I don't really know, I treat it as a black-box :)
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  82. # [10:52] <AryehGregor> Challenge: come up with as many web APIs as possible that accept a string to identify a particular desired feature, and do nothing (either throw or silently fail or whatnot) if the specific feature is unsupported. Examples: getContext(), setProperty(), execCommand().
  83. # [10:52] <AryehGregor> How many others?
  84. # [10:54] <annevk> responseType
  85. # [10:54] <annevk> hasFeature
  86. # [10:55] <annevk> createElement ...
  87. # [10:55] <AryehGregor> Context: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83993
  88. # [10:55] <AryehGregor> The question at had is, is it more consistent for execCommand() to throw or return false if a command is unrecognized?
  89. # [10:56] <AryehGregor> Ehsan and I argue it should throw (IE/Opera behavior), Alexey thinks it should not (Gecko/WebKit behavior).
  90. # [10:56] <AryehGregor> createElement() works fine if the element is unrecognized.
  91. # [10:56] <Ms2ger> What about execCommand("stop")?
  92. # [10:56] <annevk> the object you get back might not have the properties you expect
  93. # [10:56] <AryehGregor> Ms2ger, what?
  94. # [10:57] <annevk> typically non-throwing is preferred when there's a choice
  95. # [10:57] <annevk> e.g. I think if you ask sicking he'd argue to not throw too
  96. # [10:57] <AryehGregor> If we did throw, we'd have to whitelist various IE-specific commands as no-ops for compat.
  97. # [10:59] <AryehGregor> What happens if you set .responseType to an unsupported value?
  98. # [11:00] * AryehGregor doesn't know what this "enum" stuff means
  99. # [11:00] <Ms2ger> Throw when passing to a method, silently ignore when setting an attribute
  100. # [11:02] <AryehGregor> Any other opinions on whether we should throw or not?
  101. # [11:03] <AryehGregor> Trying to use most unsupported features will throw, e.g., if they're new methods.
  102. # [11:04] <annevk> AryehGregor: not throwing seems better
  103. # [11:05] <annevk> in particular https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83993#c7 is the argument we've made throwing/non-throwing decisions by time and again and I don't really see how this case is different
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  105. # [11:07] <AryehGregor> Okay. Any other opinions?
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  114. # [11:34] <gsnedders> But how do you detect if a browser supports the string passed to it?
  115. # [11:35] * gsnedders is in favour of throwing, as these are edge-cases that nobody should be hitting
  116. # [11:36] <AryehGregor> gsnedders, document.queryCommandSupported("mystring").
  117. # [11:36] <AryehGregor> Also: they're not edge-cases, because different browsers support totally different command sets and we're introducing new ones over time.
  118. # [11:36] <AryehGregor> So it's not an unlikely occurrence.
  119. # [11:37] <gsnedders> Ah. And given Gecko/WebKit don't throw, probably people passing bogus strings in today.
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  121. # [11:37] <AryehGregor> In particular, throwing for all unsupported commands would almost surely break the web for non-IE browsers, because there are many IE-specific commands like ClearAuthenticationCache that no one else supports. These would have to be special-cased as no-ops.
  122. # [11:37] <AryehGregor> Bogus strings, or just IE-specific ones.
  123. # [11:37] <AryehGregor> But Gecko and WebKit have a decent selection of commands that only they support, too.
  124. # [11:38] <gsnedders> What do we do for the IE-specific commands?
  125. # [11:39] <AryehGregor> "we" as in Opera? I don't know. Maybe you just throw and pages break.
  126. # [11:39] <AryehGregor> I don't know how many pages it is.
  127. # [11:40] <AryehGregor> Does Opera throw at all for unrecognized commands? I thought it did, but it seems not.
  128. # [11:41] <AryehGregor> So that seems to answer the question.
  129. # [11:42] <gsnedders> Then if only IE throws, then I think we have interop and it's obvious what to do.
  130. # [11:42] <AryehGregor> Namely not throw, yes.
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  191. # [15:53] <zewt> sdf
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  211. # [17:21] <AryehGregor> Exciting -- there's a box that somehow broke off from Chrome and is now sitting on top of all other windows, and I can't get rid of it.
  212. # [17:22] <AryehGregor> It stays put when I switch programs or workspaces, and doesn't respond to xkill.
  213. # [17:22] <AryehGregor> Isn't Linux fun?
  214. # [17:22] * AryehGregor tries to figure out how to get rid of it without restarting X
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  217. # [17:26] <AryehGregor> So xwininfo let me know that it was 0x3c37323, and then xkill -i 0x3c37323 killed it.
  218. # [17:26] <AryehGregor> Along with Chrome.
  219. # [17:26] <AryehGregor> Oh well.
  220. # [17:27] <AryehGregor> I should have restarted Chrome long ago anyway, it updated itself like a million times.
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  256. # [20:41] <gsnedders> jgraham: Why does test_serializer.py give errors?
  257. # [20:42] <Ms2ger> And what's http://hg.csswg.org/dev/w3ctestlib/file/tip/Utils.py#l145 trying to do?
  258. # [20:43] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: What's confusing about that?
  259. # [20:44] <Ms2ger> The exception it throws at me
  260. # [20:44] <Ms2ger> text = text.replace(c, "&%s;" % entityify[c.encode('Latin-1', 'xmlcharrefreplace')])
  261. # [20:44] <Ms2ger> KeyError: '&#258;'
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  272. # [20:49] <gsnedders> Good question what that's doing looking at it again.
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  323. # [23:31] <jgraham> Ms2ger: well it's not that surprising it throws
  324. # [23:32] <jgraham> Presumably entityify doesn't have '&#258;' as a member
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  326. # [23:34] <jgraham> Indeed it doesn't
  327. # [23:34] <jgraham> Seems pretty broken to me
  328. # [23:34] <jgraham> gsnedders: I don't know. What errors does it give?
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  336. # Session Close: Mon Apr 23 00:00:00 2012

The end :)