/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-04-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 30 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  19. # [01:09] <heycam> Hixie, no there is no way to do that, sorry, you'll need to describe the defaults in prose
  20. # [01:10] <heycam> if you were inventing from scratch I'd say foo(blah, { x: 20, y: 40 }, blah) looks nice
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  60. # [06:20] <Velmont> Thought I had booked a hotel now, but I left it mid-process I guess. Hmz. Room for 4 persons for one person, -- crazy room types at quality inn and suites mountain view
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  89. # [09:10] <nesta_> good morning!
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  128. # [11:04] <matjas> zcorpan: re: http://twitter.com/zcorpan/status/195834345972445186 did anyone guess the answer yet? I’m really curious
  129. # [11:10] <zcorpan> dunno, haven't checked twitter yet :)
  130. # [11:10] <zcorpan> seems not
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  132. # [11:11] <zcorpan> i'll give you some more time to find out (or curse me). ;)
  133. # [11:17] <matjas> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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  136. # [11:36] <Ms3ger> zcorpan: el.style.filter, WebKit
  137. # [11:38] <matjas> Ms3ger: but that’s a string, so it doesn’t count
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  139. # [11:38] <matjas> only objects that aren’t primitives
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  150. # [12:10] <zcorpan> Ms3ger: that's what i was thinking of, yeah (though i haven't looked into how it works, indeed it looks like it's a string), and some others we have introduced in opera recently (attachEvent and its friends)
  151. # [12:10] <Ms3ger> Boo, Opera ;)
  152. # [12:11] <zcorpan> attachEvent seems to be a compat balance that's not so easy
  153. # [12:15] <zcorpan> i can't get the 'filter' property to do anything in webkit (though -webkit-filter seems to be supported)
  154. # [12:15] <zcorpan> what am i doing wrong?
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  162. # [13:15] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/1501 - false in safari and chrome. style.filter quirk dropped?
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  189. # [15:48] <zcorpan> annevk: apparently flash can go fullscreen without opt-in from the embedder... http://forums.whatwg.org/bb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4563
  190. # [15:48] <zcorpan> i.e. in an iframe
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  194. # [16:04] <zcorpan> "JSON is not versioned, and has no mechanism for revision. JSON cannot change." http://inkdroid.org/journal/2012/04/30/lessons-of-json/
  195. # [16:05] <zewt> nice nonsense conclusion
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  207. # [16:37] <annevk> zcorpan: I think it is probably better to disallow that
  208. # [16:37] <annevk> zcorpan: we disallow popups too after all
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  213. # [16:38] <annevk> "Some people complained that the X in AJAX stood for XML, and therefore JSON should not be used." this article is hilarious
  214. # [16:39] * [[zzz]] is now known as [[zz]]
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  217. # [16:43] <annevk> zcorpan: hmm, we only disallow popups from sandboxed iframes I guess
  218. # [16:44] <annevk> zcorpan: I think the idea was to be stricter because it's potentially annoying, but having to embed youtube with all these attributes is annoying too
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  220. # [16:48] <zcorpan> there's lots of legacy that embed videos that currently use flash
  221. # [16:48] <zcorpan> which means it's hard for video sites to switch to <video> if they can't use fullscreen for the legacy embedders
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  223. # [16:48] <zcorpan> anyway, gotta go
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  232. # [17:07] <jzaefferer> MikeSmith: vnu.jar is working great, we've integrated it via http://github.com/jzaefferer/grunt-html - one thing that could be useful: ignoring specific errors. Would that be feasible to add/expose?
  233. # [17:08] * Quits: ben_alman (~cowboy@awesome.benalman.com) (Excess Flood)
  234. # [17:08] <annevk> why would you want to do that?
  235. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> jzaefferer: yeah, I had been expecting you guys might say there were particular errors you didn't care to be emitted dozens of times
  236. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> one answer is, update your HTML documents so that they conform to the spec :)
  237. # [17:10] <MikeSmith> jzaefferer: but to be clear, you mean errors and not just warnings, right?
  238. # [17:11] <MikeSmith> it would help me to know which particular errors are the ones you'd want to ignore
  239. # [17:11] <jzaefferer> MikeSmith: yeah, errors, though so far I can't say I really noticed a difference in the output
  240. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> OK
  241. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> well, there is no good way for us to make the configurable even if we wanted to
  242. # [17:12] <jzaefferer> For now we're just not validating files like this: https://github.com/jquery/jquery-ui/blob/master/demos/tabs/ajax/content1.html
  243. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> ah ywah
  244. # [17:12] <MikeSmith> *yeah
  245. # [17:13] <MikeSmith> scott_gonzalez or you mentioned that earlier
  246. # [17:13] <MikeSmith> t
  247. # [17:13] <jzaefferer> Elsewhere we've got an invalid <object> element, used for certain focus-related tests
  248. # [17:13] <MikeSmith> the fact that it's a document fragment, doesn't have a title element or document
  249. # [17:13] <jzaefferer> Fixing the markup breaks the test
  250. # [17:13] <MikeSmith> interesting
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  252. # [17:13] <jzaefferer> That would be a better candidate to skip the error/warning, as the rest of the file is valid
  253. # [17:13] <MikeSmith> that case should be reported as a possible spec bug I guess
  254. # [17:14] <jzaefferer> Maybe, but could also be some mess on our side
  255. # [17:14] <scott_gonzalez> jzaefferer: I need to look into the <object> error.
  256. # [17:14] <jzaefferer> Just wanted to check if there's generally a way to configure reporting per error type
  257. # [17:14] <scott_gonzalez> It's possible the test is just bad. That's why I didn't really want anyone fixing the markup in that file :-P
  258. # [17:14] <MikeSmith> OK
  259. # [17:16] <scott_gonzalez> MikeSmith: Here's the specific line that we're getting an error for: https://github.com/jquery/jquery-ui/blob/master/tests/unit/core/core.html#L64
  260. # [17:16] <MikeSmith> well, as far as suppressing errors the only thing I can suggest is to run the vnu output through some simple post-processing filter
  261. # [17:16] <MikeSmith> like, grep -v
  262. # [17:16] <scott_gonzalez> The related tests are about whether the element is focusable/tabbable.
  263. # [17:16] * MikeSmith takes a look
  264. # [17:16] <MikeSmith> codebase?
  265. # [17:16] <scott_gonzalez> Updating that causes the tests to fail in IE 6.
  266. # [17:16] <MikeSmith> ah
  267. # [17:17] <scott_gonzalez> But I just need to spend some time figuring out whether the updated markup was correct.
  268. # [17:17] <scott_gonzalez> There used to be a lot of invalid markup in that test fixture.
  269. # [17:17] <scott_gonzalez> Because we were testing lots of invalid cases to make sure we got the "correct" results in the tests.
  270. # [17:17] <MikeSmith> object stuff is messy
  271. # [17:17] <MikeSmith> ah
  272. # [17:18] <scott_gonzalez> I ended up just deleting all of the other invalid markup a while ago.
  273. # [17:18] <scott_gonzalez> Realizing that it didn't make sense to have tests around invalid markup since if anyone ever reported a bug about it, we would close the bug as invalid anyway.
  274. # [17:19] <MikeSmith> heh
  275. # [17:19] <MikeSmith> yeah
  276. # [17:19] <scott_gonzalez> Yeah, objects are definitely messy. I don't even remember how I ended up with the markup that we have. It's been a long time.
  277. # [17:19] <scott_gonzalez> I remember spending weeks on that code though, trying to figure out markup and tests that made sense for all browsers.
  278. # [17:20] <MikeSmith> OK, well, for that specific example, I think you could maybe make a case that codebase should be "obsolete bug conforming"
  279. # [17:20] <MikeSmith> in which case, vnu would generate a warning for it instead of an error
  280. # [17:21] <MikeSmith> but I think it would be an uphill battle to make that case
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  287. # [17:38] <annevk> https://twitter.com/apple curious
  288. # [17:38] <michel_v> did they ever have a twitter account?
  289. # [17:39] <michel_v> it's not like they would have much to talk about. "Hi everybody! We're working on something great! But everyone's under NDA!"
  290. # [17:39] <michel_v> "Stay tuned!"
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  292. # [17:47] <JVoracek>
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  323. # [19:03] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  324. # [19:04] <annevk> morning dglazkov
  325. # [19:04] <Hixie> is there no way in JS to push an array of items onto an array?
  326. # [19:04] <Hixie> concat returns a new array
  327. # [19:04] <annevk> for once it's morning for me too :)
  328. # [19:04] <Hixie> push() seems to just take one item
  329. # [19:05] <annevk> a.push.apply(a, b) via stackoverflow
  330. # [19:05] <annevk> -- http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1374126/how-to-append-an-array-to-an-existing-javascript-array
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  332. # [19:08] <Ms2ger> Morning
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  335. # [19:12] <annevk> Ms2ger: no longer in Europe?
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  338. # [19:25] <dglazkov> WAT! Ms2ger is coming to F2f!!
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  350. # [19:45] <gsnedders> Does this mean we have to work out how to pronounce "Ms2ger"?
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  353. # [19:51] <Philip`> "Em ess tooger" ('tooge' as in 'stooge'), surely?
  354. # [19:57] <dglazkov> "Mastuger!"
  355. # [20:02] <hober> "miss toogah"
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  359. # [20:05] <dglazkov> oooh, miss. I miss-ed that.
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  369. # [20:16] <rafaelw_> hsivonen: ping.
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  371. # [20:22] <annevk> hober: on my way
  372. # [20:23] <annevk> hober: well sort of, taxi is on its way first
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  409. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> weinig++
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  451. # [23:26] <annevk> notifications meetup outcome: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-notification/2012Apr/0018.html
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  453. # [23:31] <roc> it's sort of annoying that html5rocks.com is really chromerocks.com
  454. # [23:34] <annevk> HTML5 is passé anyway
  455. # [23:35] * jernoble is now known as jernoble|afk
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  457. # [23:39] <miketaylr> roc: http://www.html5r0cks.com/ is the better version
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  462. # [23:45] <gsnedders> roc: You mean using browser prefixes is unfair? Oh no!
  463. # [23:45] <gsnedders> Better not try and be compatible, that's undermining the platform!
  464. # [23:45] <roc> have they written about that? I didn't see it
  465. # [23:46] <gsnedders> Written about what?
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  468. # [23:47] <tantek> greetings whatwg'rs, who's going to the Web Apps WG f2f and/or the HTML WG f2f this week? (I'll be at both)
  469. # [23:47] <othermaciej> what does <http://www.html5r0cks.com> do that is Chrome-specific?
  470. # [23:48] <othermaciej> tantek: I'll be at HTML, probably not Web Apps
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  472. # [23:48] <annevk> I'll be there, already in MV in fact
  473. # [23:48] <tantek> othermaciej - perhaps html5rocks has some -webkit- specific dependencies? kinda like apple.com/html5 ?
  474. # [23:48] <othermaciej> I don't even know what html5rocks is supposed to do
  475. # [23:48] * Quits: othermaciej (~mjs@17.245.105.197) (Quit: othermaciej)
  476. # [23:48] <tantek> if it's not chromerocks.com then perhaps it's webkitrocks.com
  477. # [23:50] <gsnedders> I believe it uses -webkit-.
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  479. # [23:56] <annevk> Hixie: any opinions on passing event handler attributes as members of an object initialization dictionary?
  480. # [23:58] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert@188-230-195-85.dynamic.t-2.net)
  481. # [23:58] <annevk> Hixie: see "Constructors" in http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/WebNotifications/publish/Notifications.html
  482. # Session Close: Tue May 01 00:00:00 2012

The end :)