/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-05-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 03 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:05] <annevk> Hixie: the latter I guess
  5. # [00:06] <Hixie> k
  6. # [00:06] <annevk> Hixie: well, and maybe you should remove classList...
  7. # [00:06] * Quits: svl (~me@ip565744a7.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: And back he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky.)
  8. # [00:06] <annevk> but maybe you want to wait until we convince more impls to do that
  9. # [00:06] <annevk> I saw a patch from sicking
  10. # [00:06] <Hixie> i don't agree that we should do that in the first place, so... :-)
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  12. # [00:07] <Hixie> (because SVG className is not hte same as HTML className)
  13. # [00:08] <annevk> ah yeah
  14. # [00:08] <annevk> SVG will just have to change
  15. # [00:08] <Hixie> good luck with that
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  22. # [00:20] <annevk> it's really hard to decide on an email address
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  24. # [00:20] <Hixie> o_O
  25. # [00:21] <annevk> Hixie: I have issues
  26. # [00:21] <annevk> :)
  27. # [00:21] <wilhelm> annevk: It is. I can't find any way to eliminate the redundancy in “w@wja.no”.
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  30. # [00:23] <Hixie> i thought ian@hixie.ch was pretty simple, but it seems to have just made people think my name is "ian hixie"
  31. # [00:23] <annevk> wilhelm: ah you already got a short domain
  32. # [00:23] <annevk> haha
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  34. # [00:24] <annevk> I think my shortest domain is quuz.org so I was thinking m or a @quuz.org
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  36. # [00:24] <annevk> but maybe I should go with the more verbose m @ annevankesteren.nl
  37. # [00:24] <hober> m?
  38. # [00:24] <annevk> mail
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  40. # [00:25] <annevk> I've been trying to get hold of anne.nl but no luck
  41. # [00:25] <Hixie> how about annevk.nl?
  42. # [00:25] <annevk> and an.ne requires a company in Niger and Niger also requires at least three letters I think
  43. # [00:25] <Hixie> an.ne is ugly
  44. # [00:25] <annevk> Hixie: yeah that might be a good compromise
  45. # [00:25] <Hixie> like someone shot your name or something
  46. # [00:25] <hober> pad out with extra ns
  47. # [00:25] <hober> annnn.ne
  48. # [00:26] <annevk> I'm not a big fan of "annevk" I prefer "anne"
  49. # [00:26] <Hixie> ah
  50. # [00:26] <wilhelm> I like relevant country TLDs. anne*.nl is appropriate.
  51. # [00:26] <hober> yeah, mine is quite irrelevant
  52. # [00:26] <annevk> I can get anne.io
  53. # [00:26] <hober> ted at oconnor.cx
  54. # [00:26] <annevk> which is kind of funny
  55. # [00:27] <hober> annevk: the solution is simple: found your own country and get the .vk tld
  56. # [00:27] <hober> me@anne.vk
  57. # [00:27] <annevk> true
  58. # [00:27] <Hixie> annevk: btw the advantage of something like anne@some.thing rather than mail@anne.something is that it makes sense as a jabber alias too
  59. # [00:27] <Hixie> you could just buy .anne
  60. # [00:27] <Hixie> it's only a few hundred grand
  61. # [00:27] <annevk> I like how you use "just"
  62. # [00:27] <wilhelm> Totally worth it.
  63. # [00:28] <annevk> anne@anne
  64. # [00:28] <annevk> no extensions
  65. # [00:28] <Hixie> dude if you did that we'd all be like "well crap, now we have to do that too"
  66. # [00:28] <annevk> deal with that silly email regular expressions
  67. # [00:28] <kennyluck> anneisaguy.com
  68. # [00:28] <othermaciej> anne@notagirl.com
  69. # [00:29] <annevk> actuallyaguy.com is free
  70. # [00:29] <annevk> anne@actuallyaguy.com
  71. # [00:29] <annevk> kind of lame though
  72. # [00:29] <Hixie> you're name is Aguy?
  73. # [00:29] <Hixie> your
  74. # [00:29] <Hixie> your
  75. # [00:29] <Hixie> jesus
  76. # [00:29] <annevk> haha
  77. # [00:30] <othermaciej> notagirl.com smells of being a phishing scam
  78. # [00:31] <wilhelm> anne.is/a.gentleman
  79. # [00:31] <wilhelm> .is is available. :P
  80. # [00:31] <wilhelm> And .eu is for sale, apparently.
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  82. # [00:33] <Hixie> the whole TLD?
  83. # [00:33] <wilhelm> Just a very limited subset.
  84. # [00:36] <zewt> dreaming of the day when the password form fills in on paypal+firefox without having to click the username then the password field
  85. # [00:38] <zewt> annevk: heh the only problem with my address is it has to be spelled out
  86. # [00:39] <annevk> thanks for the ideas everyone, I'll ponder over it some more :p
  87. # [00:39] <annevk> wilhelm: Yoda-style, "Gentleman, Anne is"
  88. # [00:40] <wilhelm> That could work.
  89. # [00:40] * jernoble|afk is now known as jernoble
  90. # [00:41] <rniwa> Hixie: can we use your annotation script on whatwg in webapps WG?
  91. # [00:41] <rniwa> Hixie: would it be possible to open-source it somewhere?
  92. # [00:42] <Hixie> it's pretty specific to HTML, but I can make the code available if someone wants to host a fork of it somewhere else, sure
  93. # [00:42] <rniwa> Hixie: we would like to be able to list tests per section for example
  94. # [00:42] <rniwa> Hixie: excellent!
  95. # [00:42] <Hixie> whoever wants to have the code should e-mail me
  96. # [00:42] <rniwa> okay
  97. # [00:42] <Hixie> it's pretty hairy
  98. # [00:42] <Hixie> might be easier to start from scratch
  99. # [00:43] <WeirdAl> I'd love to see those annotations in the XHR2 spec
  100. # [00:43] <Hixie> (i'm amused that there are people in the meeting who weren't familiar with this stuff)
  101. # [00:43] <Hixie> (how is that even possible?)
  102. # [00:44] <annevk> Hixie: how Bush got elected still boggles my mind too
  103. # [00:45] <Hixie> that seems qualitatively different
  104. # [00:45] <annevk> I guess, though sometimes this stuff feels just as weird
  105. # [00:47] <annevk> WeirdAl: yeah, all over really
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  108. # [00:49] <Hixie> i've been saying this for years
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  110. # [00:52] <zewt> annevk: elected, maybe ... it's the re* part that's confusing
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  256. # [08:37] <zcorpan> surely, anne@kesteren.nl (@ pronounced as "van")
  257. # [08:40] <sicking> Hixie: there's no technical reason .className couldn't be overridden for SVG elements to return something different. It's just a really confusing. But no more confusing than .className being different in HTML and in SVG
  258. # [08:41] <Hixie> agreed
  259. # [08:42] <othermaciej> is .className different in HTML and SVG?
  260. # [08:42] <Hixie> yes
  261. # [08:43] <othermaciej> s/is/how is/
  262. # [08:43] <othermaciej> string vs token list?
  263. # [08:44] <Hixie> string vs svg animated string value
  264. # [08:44] <othermaciej> oh
  265. # [08:44] <othermaciej> good lord, why would you use svg animation to animate the class?
  266. # [08:44] <zcorpan> wasn't there discussion about changing the svg dom to make it more like the html dom?
  267. # [08:45] <zcorpan> or is there enough legacy depending on the current svg dom to make it impossible to change?
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  274. # [09:04] <zcorpan> maybe the placeholder thing in contenteditable should be an element instead of an attribute?
  275. # [09:05] <zcorpan> or maybe not
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  358. # [11:21] <zcorpan> "This demo uses the Audio Data API in Firefox, and Web Audio in Chrome. Please agree on a single API, browser developers!" https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/audiospank
  359. # [11:22] <zcorpan> nice idea; the first multiplayer FPS game playable by blind people that i've heard of
  360. # [11:22] <zcorpan> (haven't tried it myself yet)
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  364. # [11:46] <kennyluck> please join browser development, web developers!
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  385. # [13:35] <AryehGregor> Bah, Ms2ger and annevk aren't here.
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  387. # [13:40] <jgraham> We're not good enough for you?
  388. # [13:40] <jgraham> :'(
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  401. # [14:23] <Ms3ger> You called?
  402. # [14:23] <Ms3ger> (Feel free to add that note)
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  404. # [14:24] <zcorpan> $ grep -aPihc "word-wrap\s*:\s*break-word" stevef-all
  405. # [14:24] <zcorpan> 262
  406. # [14:24] <zcorpan> $ grep -aEihzc "word-wrap[[:space:]]*:[[:space:]]*break-word" stevef-all
  407. # [14:24] <zcorpan> 67
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  410. # [14:25] <zcorpan> (67 pages out of the top 10,000 use word-wrap:break-word; total occurrences 262)
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  414. # [14:27] <Ms3ger> AryehGregor: ^
  415. # [14:28] <AryehGregor> Ms3ger, okay, thanks.
  416. # [14:28] <Ms3ger> Np
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  422. # [14:44] <zcorpan> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#vocabulary-namespaces aaaaargh
  423. # [14:45] <Yaffle> hello
  424. # [14:46] <Yaffle> what's going on with CORS simple headers list?
  425. # [14:46] <jgraham> zcorpan: I believe the translation from spec speak to english of that section is "The WG are as high as a kite"
  426. # [14:47] <Yaffle> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/cors/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#simple-header
  427. # [14:48] <Yaffle> "Last-Event-ID" is missed
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  454. # [15:44] <zcorpan> why is MozMutationObserver prefixed in firefox?
  455. # [15:45] <zewt_> MozMozMutationObserver?
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  461. # [15:56] <rafaelw_> hsivonen: you around?
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  465. # [15:59] <annevk> zcorpan: getting kesteren.nl is hard (it's also a place name) and vankesteren.nl is owned by some web design agency
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  471. # [16:08] <zcorpan> annev@nkesteren.nl then? too ugly? :)
  472. # [16:08] <annevk> too ugly
  473. # [16:08] <annevk> could use kesteren.org I guess
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  477. # [16:13] <zcorpan> argh, why is firstElementChild defined on Element only?
  478. # [16:14] <zcorpan> please make the element traversal methods available on more nodes
  479. # [16:14] <annevk> really?
  480. # [16:15] <annevk> you want that on DocumentFragment?
  481. # [16:15] <zcorpan> yeah, and Document
  482. # [16:15] <annevk> what is wrong with documentElement?
  483. # [16:16] <zcorpan> nextElementSibling i want on all nodes, i think
  484. # [16:16] <zcorpan> annevk: i need to check if foo is a document or an element instead of just using firstElementChild
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  486. # [16:17] <hasather> zcorpan: annevk: I've had that use case in the past too
  487. # [16:18] <annevk> what kind of weird code are you guys writing?
  488. # [16:19] <hasather> annevk: specifically here: https://bitbucket.org/runeh/unbose/src/9d94749c9236/src/unbose.js#cl-47
  489. # [16:19] <hasather> annevk: could have just used firstElementChild directy there
  490. # [16:21] <annevk> so nextElementSibling is available on nodes other than Element?
  491. # [16:21] <annevk> that code seems wrong
  492. # [16:22] <annevk> afaict
  493. # [16:22] <annevk> if (child.nodeType != 1 /*ELEMENT*/) { child = child.nextElementSibling; }
  494. # [16:22] <annevk> makes child undefined
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  496. # [16:26] <zcorpan> annevk: if you have foo and want the next element sibling, it makes sense to just use nextElementSibling even if foo is not an element
  497. # [16:26] <hasather> annevk: hmm, yea, I guess that's not tested enough. But I was going to write what zcorpan just said
  498. # [16:27] <annevk> I agree with that, I'm just saying this code does not work
  499. # [16:27] <hasather> annevk: yea
  500. # [16:28] <zcorpan> ok i'll file a spec bug
  501. # [16:28] <annevk> I'm not quite convinced on the others though
  502. # [16:29] <hasather> annevk: which ones?
  503. # [16:33] <annevk> first/lastElementChild
  504. # [16:33] <annevk> oh, and childElementCount should die
  505. # [16:34] <zcorpan> if we can kill childElementCount, that's fine with me. if we can't, we might as well make it available on the same places we make .children available
  506. # [16:34] <zcorpan> filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16919
  507. # [16:35] <zcorpan> annevk: i think the rationale for this is really the same as for the new mutation methods
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  513. # [16:47] <gsnedders> jgraham: html5lib, Python 3. This is going to be fun unless we drop Py<2.6 support to explicitly have binary strings.
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  516. # [16:49] <gsnedders> Almost tempting to go Py3 native and use 3to2.
  517. # [16:50] <gsnedders> (As then we fail hard given any Unicode/Bytes mismatch being introduced)
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  531. # [17:12] <jgraham> gsnedders: I am happy to drop py<2.6 support and to go python 3 and use 3to2
  532. # [17:12] <jgraham> In fact I'm not aware that there is another approach that sould work
  533. # [17:12] <jgraham> *could
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  579. # [18:10] <annevk> zcorpan: those namespaces are nothing compared to SMIL
  580. # [18:11] <annevk> http://annevankesteren.nl/2006/03/smil is still a fun read
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  582. # [18:14] <annevk> AryehGregor: I missed that Ms3ger already ok'd a change, a change works for me, just seems overkill
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  604. # [18:48] <annevk> maybe I should do annevk@annevk.nl
  605. # [18:48] <annevk> that's not that bad
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  609. # [18:56] <annevk> http://w3.markmail.org/search/ public-html is "only" 14k messages behind www-style, despite www-style existing like forever
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  614. # [19:04] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
  615. # [19:04] <Ms2ger> Morning
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  617. # [19:12] <annevk> good evening Ms2ger
  618. # [19:13] <Ms2ger> So, did anything useful happen yesterday?
  619. # [19:14] <annevk> yeah man, I added Event.NONE
  620. # [19:15] <Ms2ger> Mozilla implemented it first ;)
  621. # [19:15] <Velmont> annevk: People use that or me@annevk.nl -- but annevk@annevk.nl is easy to say.
  622. # [19:15] <annevk> Ms2ger: haha
  623. # [19:15] <Ms2ger> Velmont, yeah, and then gmail claims he's called "me"
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  628. # [19:31] <hober> annevk: :)
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  709. # [22:42] <Moo^> argh
  710. # [22:42] <Moo^> w3c validator http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/#validate_by_uri+with_options
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  712. # [22:43] <Moo^> cannot be made to accept syntax like background: -moz-linear-gradient(top, #878787, #000000);
  713. # [22:43] <Moo^> are there any known workarounds? :)
  714. # [22:43] <MikeSmith> Moo^: is that valid CSS?
  715. # [22:43] <MikeSmith> if it is, file a bug
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  717. # [22:43] <Moo^> MikeSmith: there is option to accept vendor prefixes
  718. # [22:43] <Moo^> but apparently it is ignored for values
  719. # [22:44] <MikeSmith> ah
  720. # [22:44] <MikeSmith> that is still worth filing a bug
  721. # [22:45] <MikeSmith> we have a developer who is actively working on updates to the CSS validator right now
  722. # [22:46] <MikeSmith> but not sure how long he will be doing it, so strike while the iron's hot
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  725. # [22:48] <Moo^> MikeSmith: I stroke
  726. # [22:49] <Moo^> thanks
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  728. # [22:49] <MikeSmith> hai
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  757. # [23:39] <Hixie> some e-mail here suggests a mechanism whereby UAs could hash passwords, and AryehGregor brings up the need for per-user hashing
  758. # [23:39] <Hixie> per-user salting, rather
  759. # [23:39] <Hixie> is there any reason the username couldn't be used as the salt?
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  768. # [23:58] <Philip`> Hixie: Sounds bad if you want to change the username later
  769. # [23:58] <Philip`> (e.g. if you use email address as username, and the user changes their email address)
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  771. # Session Close: Fri May 04 00:00:00 2012

The end :)