/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-05-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat May 05 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  9. # [00:17] <annevk> suddenly lots of longdesc memes
  10. # [00:18] <Velmont> longdesc the new black
  11. # [00:18] <annevk> hmm continued forking of addEventListener by Mozilla
  12. # [00:18] <annevk> meh
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  14. # [00:19] <annevk> well dougt
  15. # [00:19] <Hixie> wow who did http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/22404077991? that's an elaborate meme!
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  17. # [00:20] <Hixie> annevk: hm?
  18. # [00:20] <annevk> Hixie: creating more events that when registered using addEventListener will cause them to be dispatched
  19. # [00:20] <annevk> Hixie: see WHATWG thread on proximity and such
  20. # [00:21] <Hixie> the ones i saw are just dispatched always
  21. # [00:21] <Hixie> at least in principle
  22. # [00:21] <Hixie> it's just a UA optimisation that they aren't using battery life when there's no listener
  23. # [00:22] <Hixie> not the same as orientation where adding the listener causes an event to be fired that wouldn't normally be fired
  24. # [00:22] <annevk> the meeting now is hilarious
  25. # [00:22] <annevk> for about thirty minutes there's some discussion about whether or not the spec should suggest that authors should not or must not do something
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  27. # [00:23] <annevk> or whether maybe UAs should be forbidden to implement something useful because not everyone supports it
  28. # [00:23] <annevk> especially the emphasis that is put on how these statements in the spec are actually going to matter in reality
  29. # [00:23] * Joins: othermaciej (~mjs@205.248.100.252)
  30. # [00:23] <annevk> like authors would read that and like, oh "i should not" better think about this again
  31. # [00:24] * Velmont brought the popcorn
  32. # [00:24] <annevk> more like forty minutes
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  34. # [00:24] <annevk> AND ONGOING
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  37. # [00:27] <annevk> Hixie: the moment the pattern exists it's likely to be reused though elsewhere
  38. # [00:27] <annevk> Hixie: but mkay
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  41. # [00:28] <Hixie> what pattern?
  42. # [00:28] <Velmont> *So* much talk and so little action.
  43. # [00:28] <annevk> register for weird event
  44. # [00:28] <annevk> event dispatches
  45. # [00:28] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  46. # [00:28] <annevk> from now on i'll communicate
  47. # [00:28] <Hixie> that isn't what dougt proposed here
  48. # [00:28] <annevk> in memeable lines
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  50. # [00:29] <Velmont> Hixie: I made it. Not really elaborate, just different.
  51. # [00:29] <Hixie> Velmont: it's like three memes in one!
  52. # [00:29] <Hixie> Velmont: or did you find an existing template?
  53. # [00:29] <annevk> Hixie: http://dougturner.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/device-proximity-sensor/ seems like it is?
  54. # [00:30] <Velmont> Hixie: No, just threw it into Gimp.
  55. # [00:30] <Hixie> Velmont: i go back to elaborate!
  56. # [00:30] <Hixie> annevk: that is black-box indistinguishable from just saying that "a deviceproximity event fires whenever the proximity changes"
  57. # [00:31] <Hixie> annevk: note in particular that he doesn't say that a new event should fire when you listen, even if the proximity doesn't change
  58. # [00:32] * ahf_ is now known as ahf
  59. # [00:32] <annevk> <- skeptic
  60. # [00:36] <rniwa> Hixie: in your response to the template element parse thread
  61. # [00:36] <Hixie> annevk: send feedback on the list to make sure he doesn't mean to fire an event when you attach
  62. # [00:36] <rniwa> Hixie: you gave two examples where the result will differ
  63. # [00:37] <rniwa> Hixie: are you saying that it's weird because the resulting fragments are very different due to the first element being parsed?
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  65. # [00:38] <rniwa> Hixie: but isn't typical in the html parser? as in depending on what element we encounter, we'll drop some nodes or insert elements automatically
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  67. # [00:39] <MikeSmith> arv: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/rev/93306cbfbc62#l1.95 0_0
  68. # [00:39] <MikeSmith> <h3 U0003Ccode=""
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  70. # [00:40] <tantek> http://instagr.am/p/KOLQO0g9Vd/
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  72. # [00:41] <arv> MikeSmith: fixing
  73. # [00:42] <annevk> MikeSmith: looks like HTML XML-serializing
  74. # [00:42] <MikeSmith> anolis bug?
  75. # [00:42] <Hixie> rniwa: not nodes that came before, usually
  76. # [00:43] <rniwa> Hixie: oh I see what you're saying
  77. # [00:43] <Hixie> rniwa: and the few cases where we do mess with nodes that came before, we do it only because the input was seriously broken and we do it only because we were forced to for web compat
  78. # [00:45] <rniwa> Hixie: yeah. did you see annevk's response on 4/16 though?
  79. # [00:45] <Hixie> give me some text to search for?
  80. # [00:45] <rniwa> "You cannot look at various elements and make a decision"
  81. # [00:45] <rniwa> "E.g. if your first element is <plaintext> there will not be any other elements."
  82. # [00:45] <rniwa> and
  83. # [00:45] <rniwa> "Defining a new top-level insertion mode while retaining compatible behavior might be an interesting exercise in parser complexity, but it's not clear there is a benefit (use cases?) and feasibility has not been demonstrated (consider handling <p><td><p>, <tr><p><td>, ...). The more we can define in terms of the existing parser, the better it is for developers. The behavior will be more predictable and there will be less quirks to
  84. # [00:45] <rniwa> learn."
  85. # [00:45] <Hixie> the first was sufficient :-)
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  87. # [00:46] <rniwa> Hixie: that argument convinced me that the proposed approach is better than allowing any elements to appear
  88. # [00:46] <Hixie> it's hard for me to evaluate without knowing what cases we're trying to handle, really
  89. # [00:46] <rniwa> Hixie: but you made a really good point as well.
  90. # [00:46] <Hixie> but i'm pretty sure we never want to change the result of earlier parsing based on later characters
  91. # [00:47] <rniwa> Hixie: rafael listed all cases in one of his emals
  92. # [00:47] <rniwa> Hixie: see his point on 4/25
  93. # [00:47] <Hixie> same thread?
  94. # [00:47] <rniwa> Hixie: search with "rp, rt => HTMLRubyElement"
  95. # [00:47] <rniwa> Hixie: yup
  96. # [00:47] <rniwa> Hixie: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012AprJun/0334.html
  97. # [00:48] <Hixie> that doesn't list the actual use cases we want to parse
  98. # [00:48] <Hixie> just gives some examples of the results
  99. # [00:48] <rniwa> Hixie: ah i see
  100. # [00:48] <Hixie> (for example, i assume anything to do with <frameset> we don't really care about the result)
  101. # [00:48] <rniwa> Hixie: he does list some cases at the end
  102. # [00:48] <rniwa> Hixie: but i suppose you're looking for more comprehensive list?
  103. # [00:49] <Hixie> the ones he lists at the end include something to do with <frameset>, so i assume they're just examples of the results of the proposal and not use cases
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  106. # [00:49] <Hixie> i could be wrong :-)
  107. # [00:49] <Hixie> but i'd be surprised if one of the use cases involves framesets!
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  109. # [00:53] <Hixie> must. not. use. tantek's photo. for a meme.
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  135. # [02:06] <annevk> http://www.netmagazine.com/news/call-greater-diversity-web-industry-121948
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  142. # [02:29] <hober> annevk: ok, things are wired to twitter now
  143. # [02:29] <annevk> sweet
  144. # [02:30] <annevk> hober: do one manual tweet maybe with the last posted?
  145. # [02:31] <hober> yeah, ok
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  147. # [02:36] <annevk> :)
  148. # [02:38] <annevk> hober: add http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3ivb8Ldac1rvsbh9o1_400.jpg as icon everywhere?
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  150. # [02:39] <hober> aye aye
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  153. # [02:47] <tabatkins_> If I want to propose something vaguely related to the 'unload' event, is that best done in whatwg or public-webapps?
  154. # [02:48] <annevk> whatwg
  155. # [02:48] <tabatkins_> Kk, cool.
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  198. # [06:06] <cbright6063> lovely
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  418. # [23:15] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no)
  419. # [23:20] * Quits: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-40-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  420. # [23:20] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  421. # [23:29] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert@93-103-90-17.dynamic.t-2.net) (Quit: sedovsek)
  422. # [23:36] * Joins: nesta_ (~nesta_@84.122.96.113.dyn.user.ono.com)
  423. # [23:38] * Joins: benvie (~brandon@cpe-174-097-187-248.nc.res.rr.com)
  424. # [23:55] * Joins: gwicke (~gabriel@21-56-142-46.pool.kielnet.net)
  425. # [23:55] * Quits: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.108.107.getinternet.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  426. # Session Close: Sun May 06 00:00:00 2012

The end :)