/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-05-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon May 07 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  14. # [00:30] <othermaciej> TabAtkins: I respect your position re prefixing but I think you may be suffering from serious status quo bias and anchoring effects
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  93. # [08:25] <nesta_> good morning!
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  108. # [09:04] <jgraham> TabAtkins: Assuming othermaciej was talking about http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012May/0215.html, my response is haha, yeah right
  109. # [09:06] <jgraham> Tying unprefixing to the release of a testsuite just seems like a way to prevent it happening
  110. # [09:07] <jgraham> It also creates bad incentives for writing tests since the goal of the tests will be to make the Process transition happen as fast as possible, not to make implemntations that are basically about the same interoperate on edge cases
  111. # [09:08] * jgraham hasn't read the whole thread yet though
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  113. # [09:12] <jgraham> and re: the followup on the thread, authors currently assume rough interop anyway when they blindly add -*-whatever properties. And they also assume rough interop between the - often mostly seperate-code - -webkit- implementations
  114. # [09:12] <jgraham> So you are suggesting a bar that is utterly at odds with reality
  115. # [09:16] <jgraham> AryehGregor: If you are there, this might be faster than email. I didn't understand your email to public-html-testsuite
  116. # [09:16] <AryehGregor> jgraham, which e-mail to public-html-testsuite?
  117. # [09:16] <AryehGregor> Did I make one recently?
  118. # [09:16] <AryehGregor> I don't recall.
  119. # [09:17] <AryehGregor> Oh, that one.
  120. # [09:17] <AryehGregor> jgraham, http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/editing/raw-file/583bf580775b/selecttest/collapseToStartEnd.html <-- Works.
  121. # [09:18] <AryehGregor> Because I have: <script src=http://w3c-test.org/resources/testharness.js></script>
  122. # [09:18] <AryehGregor> If I had: <script src=/resources/testharness.js></script>
  123. # [09:18] <AryehGregor> Then it wouldn't work.
  124. # [09:18] <AryehGregor> Because that doesn't exist on dvcs.w3.org.
  125. # [09:18] <jgraham> Oh I see
  126. # [09:18] <jgraham> It's specific revisions of the *tests* that you want to link to
  127. # [09:18] <jgraham> Or open
  128. # [09:18] <AryehGregor> (By sheer coincidence, I was pointing out on Mozilla's Bugzilla that my use of w3c-test.org here makes my tests not importable into Gecko without a separate manual step.)
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  130. # [09:19] <AryehGregor> Well, perhaps ideally the test suite should include whatever testharness.js was current at the time it was written.
  131. # [09:19] <jgraham> Yeah, it doesn't work for us either, for the same reason
  132. # [09:19] <AryehGregor> But at least it should work.
  133. # [09:19] <AryehGregor> find -type f -exec sed 's!http://w3c-test.org!!' {} +
  134. # [09:19] <AryehGregor> That works fine.
  135. # [09:19] <jgraham> It works fine, but makes updating things a pain
  136. # [09:20] <AryehGregor> Do you auto-update? In Gecko it's manual, in principle.
  137. # [09:20] <jgraham> No, but basically it's such an effort that we often just don't do it
  138. # [09:20] <jgraham> Which is bad and I want to change
  139. # [09:21] <AryehGregor> Gecko updating of imported test suites is totally scripted.
  140. # [09:21] <AryehGregor> We have Ms2ger to thank for that.
  141. # [09:21] <AryehGregor> (as well as the fact that we support testharness tests at all)
  142. # [09:21] <AryehGregor> Although, updating the list of expected fails is still somewhat tedious.
  143. # [09:21] <AryehGregor> I'll probably want to work on that.
  144. # [09:22] <jgraham> The problem for us, in general, is that we might have local patches to a testsuite (not so much testharness.js testsuites, since they were designed to avoid some of the problems we have encountered)
  145. # [09:22] <AryehGregor> Version them in a DVCS and rebase. :)
  146. # [09:22] <AryehGregor> (we don't have local patches to any testsuites yet, but we haven't imported many either)
  147. # [09:22] <jgraham> Yes, that's the ideal world
  148. # [09:23] <jgraham> For legacy reasons, however, all our tests are on svn
  149. # [09:23] <jgraham> sometimes people have tried horrendous things like putting git repos inside svn
  150. # [09:23] <AryehGregor> Well, there's your problem . . .
  151. # [09:24] <jgraham> Yeah, I know
  152. # [09:24] <jgraham> I know how to fix the problem in an abstract way, I just need to make it work in a concrete way
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  164. # [10:01] <tabatkins_> European morning!
  165. # [10:02] <jgraham> Is that another way of saying "bad morning"?
  166. # [10:02] <jgraham> or "Commie socialist bastards morning", perhaps?
  167. # [10:03] <tabatkins_> I'm in Europe, so clearly I need to differentiate this from normal morning.
  168. # [10:03] <tabatkins_> And by "normal", I of course mean "west-coast american".
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  170. # [10:03] <jgraham> Pretty sure that nothing about the west coast of america is normal
  171. # [10:03] <charlvn> tabatkins_: how is west-coast american normal?
  172. # [10:04] <tabatkins_> charlvn: That should be self-evident.
  173. # [10:04] <charlvn> yeah exactly jgraham
  174. # [10:04] <charlvn> tabatkins_: i must be missing it ;)
  175. # [10:04] <tabatkins_> charlvn: Clearly you're not a citizen of Imperial America.
  176. # [10:04] <charlvn> tabatkins_: nope! lol
  177. # [10:04] <charlvn> The Backstroke of the West
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  180. # [10:05] <othermaciej> tabatkins_: good euro-morning
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  192. # [10:31] <zcorpan> arun++ for fixing fileapi :-)
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  196. # [10:53] <Velmont> I'm back
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  198. # [10:54] <Velmont> Oh, lost internet. Was going to write; I'm back on the mother-continent. So good euro-morning to all.
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  203. # [10:57] <jgraham> Help, Velmont has been invaded by the Glazkov-mind-worms
  204. # [10:58] <zcorpan> woah. https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16945
  205. # [10:59] <Velmont> jgraham: WAT?
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  208. # [11:06] <jgraham> zcorpan: So, is he wrong or is the spec wrong? And are browsers following the spec?
  209. # [11:06] <zcorpan> jgraham: just commented in the bug
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  211. # [11:07] <zcorpan> spec is wrong, but nobody follows the spec, it seems :-)
  212. # [11:07] <jgraham> Oh, I wonder if the tests are right, somehow?
  213. # [11:08] <jgraham> Otherwise how did everyone miss this?
  214. # [11:08] <zcorpan> is there a test for this case?
  215. # [11:08] <jgraham> I don't know
  216. # [11:09] <jgraham> If it was just that the spec was so obviously wrong that everyone did something different, I think someone at least would have reported the issue
  217. # [11:09] <zcorpan> yeah that's a bit weird
  218. # [11:12] <zcorpan> i don't see a test for that particular state transition
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  225. # [11:24] <annevk> anyone know why Steam does not let you play games in offline mode?
  226. # [11:24] <annevk> kind of sucked on the flight back
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  239. # [12:19] <Dashiva> annevk: There's supposed to be an offline mode for steam, but you have to enable it while online or something
  240. # [12:20] <zcorpan> LOL. Please go online to go offline.
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  243. # [12:36] <Philip`> I assume the idea is that "go offline" means "lock my account so no other machine can log in as me while I'm offline, then go offline"
  244. # [12:37] <Philip`> to prevent many individuals sharing a Steam account and all playing at once
  245. # [12:37] <Philip`> (which is normally prevented by having the online service check you're only logged in once)
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  249. # [12:43] <jgraham> AryehGregor: Thinking about it, W3C probably don't want you running tests directly on the DVCS server, so you could see that as a feature
  250. # [12:44] <jgraham> Hence w3c-test.org being an entirely seperate domain
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  255. # [13:04] <Philip`> Maybe there should be a rev583bf580775b.w3c-test.org for every Hg revision
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  343. # [17:03] <jgraham> OK, reading comprehension fail
  344. # [17:03] <jgraham> Why can't I get the script-inserted-external-script opt out to work?
  345. # [17:03] <jgraham> +raciness
  346. # [17:05] <jgraham> "In addition, whenever a script element whose "force-async" flag is set has a async content attribute added, the element's "force-async" flag must be unset."
  347. # [17:06] <jgraham> So if I create a script, set the async content attribute, then remove it again, I should be left with a script that has neither async nor force-async set, right?
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  353. # [17:20] <jgraham> Oooh
  354. # [17:21] <jgraham> I see where I am wrong
  355. # [17:21] <jgraham> Nevermind me
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  464. # [21:52] <jgraham> With the unload thing, is it a good assumption that XHR is the only use case?
  465. # [21:53] <jgraham> Won't peoplw want to do potentially-laggy IO to the local system on site exit?
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  488. # [22:52] <Ms2ger> A copy of WordPerfect? What's that?
  489. # [22:54] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@cable-146-255-148-108.dynamic.telemach.ba)
  490. # [22:54] <Hixie> well i usually say Microsoft Word, but i wanted to vary it a bit
  491. # [22:54] <Hixie> and i couldn't think of any other word processors :-P
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  495. # [23:08] <jgraham> Wordstar!
  496. # [23:09] <Ms2ger> It's even in the spec!
  497. # [23:09] <Philip`> OpenOffice.org Writer?
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  499. # [23:10] <Philip`> Maybe not the catchiest name
  500. # [23:10] <Ms2ger> LibreOffice?
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  505. # [23:16] <jgraham> AbiWord?
  506. # [23:19] <jgraham> Oh look Wikipedia has a list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_word_processors
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  508. # [23:21] <Ms2ger> Of course
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  511. # [23:25] <Hixie> jgraham: i thought of lots of them after writing "WordPerfect" :-P
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  521. # Session Close: Tue May 08 00:00:00 2012

The end :)