/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-06-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Jun 16 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  35. # [01:22] <aklein> Hixie: the HTML parser doesn't reference DOM4's mutation methods when constructing the tree, does it? from the text it seems to know how to create a tree all on its own.
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  46. # [01:59] <aklein> Hixie: perhaps next week. in the meantime, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2012AprJun/1198.html
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  125. # [08:35] <Yaffle> hello!
  126. # [08:36] <Yaffle> could someone tell me, why event listeners attached with addEventListener trigerred in order of registration?
  127. # [08:36] <Yaffle> i believe, reverse order is more good
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  129. # [08:52] <niloy> Yaffle, how is reverse order good?
  130. # [08:53] <Yaffle> more specific events added later
  131. # [08:53] <Yaffle> but they should be able to be triggered early
  132. # [08:54] <Yaffle> *more specif handlers
  133. # [08:57] <matjas> Hixie: JSON doesn’t support “hexadecimal character escapes” (as per ES 5.1), only what the spec calls “Unicode character escapes”. Both use hex digits, though.
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  136. # [09:02] <Yaffle> http://w3.org/TR/2012/WD-DOM-Level-3-Events-20120614/#event-flow - Next, the implementation must determine the current target's candidate event listeners. This must be the list of all event listeners that have been registered on the current target in their order of registration
  137. # [09:02] <Yaffle> why????
  138. # [09:03] <Yaffle> the implementation must process all candidate event handlers in order and trigger
  139. # [09:03] <Yaffle> why "reverse" word is missed here???
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  142. # [09:09] <Yaffle> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11061404/javascript-dom-addeventlistener-trigger-order
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  144. # [09:14] <Yaffle> flex has "priority" parameter of the addEventListener() method - http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.html?content=events_09.html
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  146. # [09:17] <Ms2ger> abarth, the HTML parsing spec long predates the mutation concepts in DOM4 :)
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  149. # [09:29] <Yaffle> also, flex "addEventListener" has very cool useWeakReference argument
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  177. # [11:12] <Ms2ger> https://p.twimg.com/Ave6CVfCAAE7oE5.jpg
  178. # [11:12] * Ms2ger approves
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  239. # [15:54] <annevk> MacBook died again
  240. # [15:54] <annevk> five year old T60 still up and running
  241. # [15:55] <annevk> prolly still opting for a new MacBook of sorts...
  242. # [15:56] * Quits: hij1nx (~hij1nx@62.233.215.132) (Quit: hij1nx)
  243. # [15:57] <annevk> anyone know how to get Ubuntu to actually show distribution updates in the Update Manager?
  244. # [15:57] <annevk> I'm on 10.4
  245. # [15:57] <annevk> there must be something else by now
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  247. # [16:08] <SimonSapin> annevk: update-manager -d
  248. # [16:15] <annevk> thanks
  249. # [16:15] <annevk> that shows me 10.10 is available
  250. # [16:15] <annevk> does that mean I'm going to have to do a whole lot of updates?
  251. # [16:15] <annevk> ooh
  252. # [16:15] <annevk> if I do LTS only it shows 12.04
  253. # [16:16] <annevk> that seems somewhat more appropriate
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  256. # [16:18] * linclark is now known as linclark|afk
  257. # [16:23] <zewt> annevk: heh, people always say that macs are "reliable", but i'm having to use a brand new mac mini for ios stuff at work, and it's the most flaky, crashy system i've used in a long time
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  259. # [16:23] <annevk> the problem with mine is that I dropped it too often I think
  260. # [16:23] <annevk> from the overhead luggage bin and my couch at home
  261. # [16:24] <zewt> this thing's like two months old and i spent more time yesterday staring at a spinning circle than doing work
  262. # [16:24] <annevk> after doing that a few times the hardware starts to deteriorate it seems
  263. # [16:24] <zewt> maybe five minutes of doing something useful to 30 minutes of zzz
  264. # [16:24] <zewt> (we're guessing it's a hardware problem but nobody in the office is a "mac person" so we don't really know how to troubleshoot it, heh)
  265. # [16:24] <annevk> not sure which new Mac to get
  266. # [16:25] <annevk> maybe try the Air unless they release a 13inch Retina soonish
  267. # [16:25] <zewt> also, the osx gui is seriously 90s, unpolished as hell
  268. # [16:25] <annevk> time for OS update
  269. # [16:25] <zewt> it's the latest, i think
  270. # [16:26] <annevk> no I mean my Ubuntu installation
  271. # [16:26] <zewt> i gave up on ubuntu
  272. # [16:26] <annevk> it's definitely not the latest :)
  273. # [16:26] <zewt> one too many update -> no-boot
  274. # [16:26] <zewt> back to debian
  275. # [16:27] <annevk> if this laptop dies too I have a problem
  276. # [16:27] <Ms2ger> Heh, Debian
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  278. # [16:27] <zewt> ubuntu is a bunch of updates at once, which invariably breaks a ton of stuff, debian i just keep it on testing and it's a bunch of small breaks once in a while that i can fix instead of an avalanche
  279. # [16:28] <gsnedders> zewt: What isn't polished of the OS X UI? Though maybe it's just gone downhill from 10.6, which is the impression I've got from others. :P
  280. # [16:28] <zewt> one ubuntu update gave me a kernel that didn't work on my system; i tried downgrading the kernel to get it to boot, and apparently it also used an init or something that didn't work on anything except bleeding-edge kernels, so i was stuck
  281. # [16:28] * gwicke is now known as gwicke_away
  282. # [16:29] <zewt> gsnedders: i can't even figure out how to open a menu with the keyboard, heh
  283. # [16:29] <zewt> it'll open the first item, but there seems to be no concept of per-menu hotkeys
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  285. # [16:32] <zewt> it honestly seems like they design by going "okay, how can we make this pointlessly different from windows to irritate windows users" :P
  286. # [16:32] <gsnedders> Eh, much of the differences carry over from the original Macintosh, and that wasn't the reason then. :P
  287. # [16:34] <zewt> i end up doing most of my editing in a putty window in windows :P
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  290. # [16:35] <zewt> (unfortunately, even so I'm still editing objc, which is easily the ugliest language on any modern platform)
  291. # [16:36] <zewt> (used by a modern platform, I mean)
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  308. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> Opera++
  309. # [17:15] <gsnedders> What have we done now?
  310. # [17:15] <Philip`> zewt: "how to troubleshoot it" - I thought the universal troubleshooting instructions were "take it back to an Apple store" and/or "buy a new one"
  311. # [17:16] <zewt> pretty much what we're going to do :)
  312. # [17:17] <Philip`> I'd usually add a custom step like "hit it a few times and see if it starts working again" before that
  313. # [17:17] <zewt> i'm almost as tired of copying the "if __name__ == '__main__':" boilerplate in python as i am of typing document.getElementById
  314. # [17:18] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, implemented the spec rather than done the minimal amount of work to pass Philip`'s test
  315. # [17:18] <gsnedders> Ms2ger: What spec/test?
  316. # [17:18] <Ms2ger> http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/PhilipTaylor/canvas/index.2d.gradient.interpolate.zerosize.html
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  318. # [17:21] * Ms2ger found a patch to get Gecko up to Chrome's level
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  322. # [17:24] <annevk> Skype works, Phone app doesn't, brilliant
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  340. # [17:53] <zewt> the best thing about web apps is how features get removed and you have no choice but to "upgrade"
  341. # [17:54] <zewt> used to be you could tell one "ian" from another in gmail message lists by the color, and that's just mysteriously gone now
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  344. # [17:56] <jgraham> Problem with laptops is that they all suck
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  351. # [18:27] <annevk> jgraham: yeah, MacBook has been far the best in terms of battery/screen
  352. # [18:29] <annevk> jgraham: but kind of sucky in build quality
  353. # [18:29] <annevk> or robustness anyway
  354. # [18:32] <annevk> oh Lachy
  355. # [18:32] <annevk> Lachy: application/form-data needs a spec
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  357. # [18:34] <Lachy> annevk, what's that used for?
  358. # [18:34] <annevk> Lachy: <form enctype=application/form-data> iirc
  359. # [18:35] <annevk> Lachy: current spec is vague on the exact bytes that will be transmitted
  360. # [18:35] <annevk> Lachy: and there's some issues with non-ASCII file names too
  361. # [18:35] <Lachy> where is it currently spec'd?
  362. # [18:35] <gsnedders> HTML
  363. # [18:35] <annevk> some RFC
  364. # [18:35] <gsnedders> HTML has some spec, no?
  365. # [18:35] <gsnedders> Or am I forgetting stuff?
  366. # [18:36] <Lachy> do you mean multipart/form-data?
  367. # [18:36] <Lachy> or application/x-www-form-urlencoded
  368. # [18:37] <annevk> former
  369. # [18:38] <annevk> gsnedders: yeah for application/x-www-form-urlencoded and some additional rules on top of the RFC for multipart/form-data
  370. # [18:38] <annevk> but it's not quite sufficient and quite hacky
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  379. # [19:01] <Hixie> yeah a real spec for multipart/form-data would be great
  380. # [19:01] <Hixie> i don't have the bandwidth to add it to html currently
  381. # [19:02] <Hixie> but it's become clear that, as anne has been saying for years, it really needs to be respecced, whether in html or outside it
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  395. # [19:42] <zewt> sites using focus information to force you to leave their window focused for N seconds before doing something makes me want to disable that whole api
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  398. # [19:53] <zewt> oh wow, that's some horrible firefox bug, not the site
  399. # [19:53] * Joins: smaug____ (~chatzilla@a91-154-42-69.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
  400. # [19:53] <zewt> firefox appears to throttle background setTimeouts, which makes the timer go really slow if the tab is backgrounded
  401. # [19:53] <zewt> guess i should update firefox
  402. # [19:54] <jgraham> I think they were trying that as a feature
  403. # [19:54] <zewt> definitely not a feature :)
  404. # [19:54] <jgraham> (throttling background timeouts)
  405. # [19:55] <zewt> (to be sure, it's a shitty site, but still)
  406. # [19:55] <jgraham> Yeah, it seems unlikely to work to me
  407. # [19:55] <jgraham> Which is sad because there are some advantages (e.g. better battery life)
  408. # [19:55] <zewt> throttling would really need to be based on CPU usage of scripts anyway, just trying to throttle timers is way too naive
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  410. # [19:57] <zewt> the scripts on this site have a function named "loadPopUnder"
  411. # [19:57] <zewt> welcome to the future :(
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  443. # [22:55] <Lachy> Hixie, which sort of things are underspecified for multipart/form-data?
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  448. # [23:13] <Lachy> so I just read the RFC. It really doesn't seem to define much at all. It just seems to give a brief overview of the format.
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  456. # Session Close: Sun Jun 17 00:00:00 2012

The end :)