/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-07-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 12 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  21. # [00:33] <ojan> a bit late to the party...but, for the record, I was talking about WebIDL dictionaries
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  25. # [00:38] <Hixie> so what's the browser interest on the http+aes stuff?
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  28. # [00:42] <espadrine_> isn't that what https is supposed to do? What's http+aes?
  29. # [00:43] * Joins: Yuhong (~chatzilla@50-47-177-209.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net)
  30. # [00:43] <Yuhong> <Hixie> looks like netscape was on the path of blame
  31. # [00:43] <Yuhong> I think IE1 was the first browser to support named colors.
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  33. # [00:44] <Hixie> espadrine_: a way to have content served to a client from an untrusted CDN
  34. # [00:46] <espadrine_> some kind of CORS with a brand new protocol then?
  35. # [00:47] <Hixie> no, new scheme that includes a key to decrypt the payload of an HTTP resource
  36. # [00:47] <Hixie> it's in the spec currently
  37. # [00:47] <Hixie> but i'm wondering if we should drop it
  38. # [00:47] <Hixie> since it doesn't seem anyone really cares
  39. # [00:48] <Hixie> we added it because people said there was a use case for it, but i'm starting to think the use case was a fiction intended to help push a DRM scheme
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  42. # [00:50] <espadrine_> oh, I see
  43. # [00:50] * ojan is now known as ojan_away
  44. # [00:50] * ojan_away is now known as ojan
  45. # [00:51] <smaug____> rniwa: it still sounds like ojan is talking about WebIDL dictionaries and you're talking about callback objects :)
  46. # [00:52] <ojan> what are callback objects?
  47. # [00:52] <smaug____> { handleEvent: function() {} }
  48. # [00:52] <smaug____> and you store reference to that object
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  50. # [00:52] <rniwa> smaug____: yeah so it seems.
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  53. # [00:53] <ojan> callback objects seem like a bad idea
  54. # [00:53] <smaug____> callback objects are a nice idea :)
  55. # [00:53] <smaug____> but in this particular case dictionary should work well too
  56. # [00:54] <ojan> it simplifies many things in this case
  57. # [00:54] <ojan> e.g. what happens when you reuse the object for two transact calls
  58. # [00:55] <ojan> i'm about at the end of my standards arguing rope on this discussion though...and i don't think there's much more to say...so, unless some new information comes to light...i don't have more to add to that thread
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  60. # [00:56] <smaug____> I don't care too much, except that the proposal to use callbacks in some cases and event listeners in some other cases looked really really odd.
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  62. # [00:56] <smaug____> either event listeners, or dictionary or callback object
  63. # [00:57] <zewt> smaug____: that seems like a pointless idea, heh
  64. # [00:57] <zewt> very Java-ish (or more generally, any language that doesn't have first-class function objects-ish)
  65. # [00:57] <smaug____> from implementation point of view callback object is easiest in Gecko, but other options are easy too
  66. # [00:58] <zewt> it's just completely alien to JS as a callback paradigm
  67. # [00:58] <zewt> i mean, i don't know why a *user* would ever want to use that method
  68. # [00:59] <smaug____> (yet { handleEvent: function() {}} is commonly used, but let's not start this discussion again. It is getting late here :) )
  69. # [00:59] <zewt> never once seen it in real-world code :)
  70. # [01:00] <smaug____> I'm fine with dictionary or event listener based approaches
  71. # [01:00] <smaug____> zewt: you haven't looked at Firefox UI code ;)
  72. # [01:01] <zewt> i have a bit; i try to avoid it at any cost :)
  73. # [01:01] <smaug____> or, IIRC, OSX Dashboard
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  75. # [01:01] <rniwa> ojan: i replied on the thread but there were use cases for being able to keep the original object
  76. # [01:02] <rniwa> ojan: in particular properties on the original object.
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  78. # [01:02] <smaug____> ( that is the use case for { handleEvent: function() {}} too. One can store state in the object easily. )
  79. # [01:03] <zewt> (not really a use case for that, since you can easily pass in a bound function or a closure)
  80. # [01:03] <zewt> (not specific to that, I mean)
  81. # [01:04] <smaug____> "you can easily" doesn't mean the other approach is bad
  82. # [01:04] <zewt> it is if the object is meant to be a simple callback (as opposed to, say, a *set* of callbacks, in which case it's fine)
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  85. # [01:05] <smaug____> zewt: in this case, UndoManager, we're talking about a set of callbacks
  86. # [01:05] <rniwa> zewt: in undo manager's case it'll be 1-3 callbacks so it'll be odd.
  87. # [01:05] <rniwa> zewt: in fact, you can't just pass in an object
  88. # [01:05] <rniwa> ugh.. i mean pass in a function
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  90. # [01:05] <zewt> then OK (that's very different from the weird handleEvent thing on event listeners)
  91. # [01:05] <rniwa> you need to explicitly pass in an object
  92. # [01:05] <rniwa> zewt: yeah.
  93. # [01:06] <rniwa> I DO like the syntax of pure Dictionary or user object implementing DOMTransaction
  94. # [01:06] <rniwa> the fact we can't have any readonly property, etc...
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  96. # [01:06] <rniwa> make things too hary
  97. # [01:06] <rniwa> hairly*
  98. # [01:06] <smaug____> zewt: it is not at all different from event listeners. you can pass { handleEvent: function() {}, undo: function() {}, redo: function() {}} to UndoManager and to addEventListener
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  100. # [01:07] <zewt> it's very different from event listeners, because event listeners are a single simple callback which can (just for compatibility reasons) also be passed in as an object
  101. # [01:08] <zewt> event listeners aren't a set of functions, they're just a function
  102. # [01:08] <smaug____> eh, but you can pass the *same* object implementing several callbacks
  103. # [01:09] <smaug____> that is the point
  104. # [01:09] <smaug____> no need to play with bind() or anything
  105. # [01:10] <zewt> i don't know what you're saying; I can think of nothing you can do with addEventListener by passing in an object that you can't do easily with a function
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  107. # [01:11] <zewt> (not sure what you mean by "several callbacks"; event handlers have only one callback, handleEvent)
  108. # [01:11] <smaug____> { handleEvent: function() {}, undo: function() {}, redo: function() {}}
  109. # [01:11] <smaug____> you pass the same object to addEventListener, and also to UndoManager
  110. # [01:11] <zewt> that's pointless and unnecessary
  111. # [01:11] <smaug____> you can keep some state in the object
  112. # [01:11] <smaug____> this isn't useful discussion :)
  113. # [01:12] <zewt> if you say so :)
  114. # [01:13] <smaug____> if the argument is all the time something like "that's pointless and unnecessary" :p
  115. # [01:13] <zewt> it lets you do nothing that you can't do easily and cleanly without it; that's how I describe that
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  117. # [01:14] <rniwa> anyways, i'm inclined to take the flame and use the event listener approach
  118. # [01:14] <zewt> anyway, we're stuck with it for event handlers, but I hope I won't be the only one to object if someone suggests supporting it for other simple callbacks :)
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  120. # [01:15] <rniwa> i'm sad about the verbosity but it seems better than the user object approach.
  121. # [01:15] <rniwa> zewt: object to what?
  122. # [01:16] <zewt> rniwa: that a function taking a single, simple callback should accept either a function or an object with some method, like event handlers
  123. # [01:16] <zewt> (not what you're doing)
  124. # [01:17] <rniwa> zewt: oh yeah... that's a very odd design indeed.
  125. # [01:17] <zewt> rniwa: as long as you expose event attributes, it's not *too* much more verbose (compared to having to addEventListener each of them)
  126. # [01:18] <rniwa> zewt: oh yeah, definitely not addEventListener
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  128. # [01:18] <smaug____> well, there will be also addEventListener
  129. # [01:19] <rniwa> zewt, smaug____: or maybe I should just give up and stick with the original design.
  130. # [01:19] <zewt> yeah, if you're an EventTarget then you get addEventListener automatically
  131. # [01:19] <smaug____> rniwa: original was callback object, right?
  132. # [01:20] <smaug____> I'm fine with that, and I'm fine with dictionary, and with event listeners
  133. # [01:20] <smaug____> but just don't mix them :)
  134. # [01:20] <smaug____> I kind of like the callback object approach
  135. # [01:20] <rniwa> smaug____: yeah.
  136. # [01:21] <rniwa> smaug____: sicking really liked the callback object approach.
  137. # [01:21] <zewt> hmm
  138. # [01:22] <zewt> we don't have any way to feature detect dictionary-based APIs, do we
  139. # [01:23] <zewt> akin to func.length for simple functions
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  141. # [01:23] <zewt> (in cases where you can't just call it and see what happens, which isn't always workable)
  142. # [01:24] <zewt> thinking of createObjectURL(blob, {autoRevoke...})
  143. # [01:25] <zewt> aside from https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16953#c4, which is a bit insane
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  146. # [01:26] <rniwa> zewt: no :(
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  148. # [01:26] <zewt> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17746 heh people copying and pasting a mail from me into a bug is ... confusing
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  150. # [01:26] <rniwa> zewt: another thing about user object is that you can't do expandos
  151. # [01:26] <zewt> "havn't I read this before?"
  152. # [01:26] <zewt> rniwa: i think the dictionary-feature-detection thing should be solved generically (don't know how though)
  153. # [01:27] <rniwa> zewt: how do you do that?
  154. # [01:27] <zewt> i said i don't know :P
  155. # [01:27] <rniwa> zewt: also, what is there to feature-detect?
  156. # [01:27] <zewt> whether an argument supports a particular options argument
  157. # [01:27] <zewt> eg. whether createObjectURL supports autoRevoke
  158. # [01:27] <zewt> rniwa: which case can't you do expandos?
  159. # [01:28] <zewt> if it's a dictionary then the API doesn't really store the object itself anyway, as I understand it
  160. # [01:29] <zewt> (WebIDL basically makes a shallow copy)
  161. # [01:30] <rniwa> zewt: dictionary.
  162. # [01:30] <rniwa> zewt: i guess i meant the user object case then.
  163. # [01:30] <rniwa> zewt: in either case, you can't really add new functionality to dom transactions.
  164. # [01:31] <rniwa> unless you manually modify each object.
  165. # [01:31] <zewt> yeah, you don't get a reference back to the original object (since the API never even sees it)
  166. # [01:32] <zewt> it's not quite like passing around handler objects like JS libraries like to do
  167. # [01:32] <zewt> it doesn't really lose you anything compared to event handlers, either, though
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  169. # [01:33] <rniwa> zewt: well in the event handler case, the object uses DOMTransaction interface
  170. # [01:34] <zewt> i don't have any strong opinion on "return an EventTarget and the user attaches listeners to it" vs. "pass in an object with a set of callbacks"; there's really very little difference
  171. # [01:34] <rniwa> zewt: so you can feature detect on DOMTransaction interface if any
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  173. # [01:34] <rniwa> zewt: one big difference is that you can add event listeners to the former after the fact
  174. # [01:34] <rniwa> zewt: and observe undo/redo per dom transaction
  175. # [01:35] <rniwa> zewt: wheres for the latter, we need to do that at element/document level
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  315. # [09:01] <AryehGregor> "It almost seems to me that nobody cares over here what the W3C document actually says, as there is that other "more helpful" version. In which case I wonder why it's published at all?"
  316. # [09:01] <AryehGregor> . . . I guess it's probably best not to respond to that.
  317. # [09:02] * AryehGregor cries when he reads stuff like http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jul/0267.html that adds ever more declarative special cases instead of writing imperatively
  318. # [09:03] <annevk> you mean the calc() feature itself?
  319. # [09:03] <AryehGregor> I mean basically all of CSS.
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  323. # [09:04] <AryehGregor> Which currently consists of lots of declarative requirements scattered across a zillion specs with all interactions undefined unless someone specifically points them out.
  324. # [09:04] <annevk> I saw a somewhat plausible answer to why adding imperative stuff to CSS would be problematic
  325. # [09:04] <annevk> ooh
  326. # [09:04] <annevk> you mean spec-wise
  327. # [09:04] <AryehGregor> Right.
  328. # [09:05] <annevk> yeah dunno about that
  329. # [09:05] <AryehGregor> For that matter, a lot of the terminology is undefined too -- specs will refer to things like "the element's border box" when elements can have any number of border boxes from zero and up.
  330. # [09:05] <annevk> uhuh
  331. # [09:05] <annevk> it's kind of crazy really
  332. # [09:05] <AryehGregor> Clearly it's harder to write imperatively than DOM stuff, because JavaScript is imperative and CSS is declarative.
  333. # [09:05] <AryehGregor> But still.
  334. # [09:05] <annevk> it's hard to write because CSS is hard
  335. # [09:06] <annevk> so instead of defining CSS they describe it which is a little less hard
  336. # [09:06] <annevk> but then you run into problems soon enough
  337. # [09:06] <AryehGregor> I don't think CSS is inherently any harder than, say, the HTML parser, or editing.
  338. # [09:06] <AryehGregor> It's a lot harder than DOM Core, yes, but that's not saying much.
  339. # [09:07] <annevk> dunno, CSS is big
  340. # [09:07] <AryehGregor> Bigger than HTML?
  341. # [09:07] <AryehGregor> One person did that. :)
  342. # [09:08] <annevk> I think CSS is bigger and definitely more complex
  343. # [09:08] <annevk> but I have hopes of someone fixing it still :)
  344. # [09:08] <AryehGregor> Really? The WHATWG spec is a lot bigger than all CSS specs combined.
  345. # [09:08] <AryehGregor> Although that's partly because it actually specifies all details, obviously.
  346. # [09:08] <annevk> all CSS specs?
  347. # [09:09] <annevk> including the object model and such?
  348. # [09:09] <AryehGregor> I'm pretty sure.
  349. # [09:09] <AryehGregor> I think I once counted using wget and wc -l.
  350. # [09:09] <AryehGregor> Retrieving all the CSS specs from the Current Work page.
  351. # [09:10] <AryehGregor> CSS2.1 is the only one of appreciable size. (Guess what: co-edited by Hixie.)
  352. # [09:10] <annevk> CSS 2.1 alone is half of HTML
  353. # [09:10] <AryehGregor> Really?
  354. # [09:10] <annevk> I reckon if you rewrite that proper style it will be bigger
  355. # [09:10] <annevk> the PDF is 487 pages
  356. # [09:11] <zcorpan> AryehGregor: annevk: did you see http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120711#l-533 ?
  357. # [09:11] <annevk> and CSS 2.1 does not include the object model and such
  358. # [09:11] <AryehGregor> zcorpan, no, what does it do?
  359. # [09:13] <zcorpan> AryehGregor: checks http://www.w3.org/community/reports/reqs/
  360. # [09:13] <annevk> zcorpan: that's kind of neat, maybe get ij to do something with it?
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  362. # [09:16] <zcorpan> i'm not sure a bookmarklet is the best way to implement it, maybe something that can be run from the command line is better so editors can run it at the same time as anolis
  363. # [09:18] <zcorpan> i checked yesterday and it finds some errors in Fullscreen and HTML Editing APIs
  364. # [09:18] <annevk> ideally it's some kind of service that just emails you the violations
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  366. # [09:18] <zcorpan> or files a bug maybe?
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  368. # [09:18] <annevk> yeah
  369. # [09:19] <annevk> would be cool for the markup validator too
  370. # [09:19] <zcorpan> hsivonen: ^
  371. # [09:19] <MikeSmith> what would be cool for the validator?
  372. # [09:20] <zcorpan> to email or file bug when your page doesn't validate anymore
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  374. # [09:21] <MikeSmith> oh
  375. # [09:22] <zcorpan> but i guess that's possible to implement with v.nu's existing api
  376. # [09:22] <zcorpan> with a simple script
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  378. # [09:23] <zcorpan> just file-upload to v.nu after running anolis and if it gives errors, file a bug
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  387. # [09:45] <hsivonen> zcorpan: you want the validator to file bugs in the W3C bugzilla?
  388. # [09:45] <zcorpan> hsivonen: yeah. except i realized that's possible already without more code in v.nu
  389. # [09:47] <hsivonen> I see
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  403. # [10:16] <annevk> MikeSmith: zcorpan: if you want to allow indexing of W3C Bugzilla https://www.w3.org/robots.txt will need to be modified (note https)
  404. # [10:17] <MikeSmith> ah yeah
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  420. # [10:47] <hsivonen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17693 someone missed the memo on <ins> and <del> (which became synonyms for <u> and <s> since it's really hard to do what Word does)
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  435. # [11:14] <smaug____> Uh, http://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/FileAPI/#dfn-autoRevoke :/
  436. # [11:14] <smaug____> no arun here
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  446. # [11:42] <zcorpan> smaug____: file a bug?
  447. # [11:42] <smaug____> perhaps I should discuss with arun first
  448. # [11:43] <smaug____> though, I could file a bug to remove "stable state" concept from HTML :)
  449. # [11:45] <zcorpan> what's wrong with stable state?
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  453. # [11:48] <smaug____> zcorpan: it is a weird concept
  454. # [11:48] <smaug____> it is not really detectable from JS
  455. # [11:49] <zcorpan> what do you suggest instead for algorithms that currently use it?
  456. # [11:49] <zcorpan> queue a task?
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  458. # [11:50] <smaug____> that is often a possible choice
  459. # [11:50] <smaug____> There is also microtask
  460. # [11:50] <smaug____> microtask was added because stable state and end-of-task are so vague
  461. # [11:50] <zcorpan> have a link to microtask?
  462. # [11:51] <smaug____> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#perform-a-microtask-checkpoint
  463. # [11:51] <smaug____> for some odd reason the spec talks only about mutation observers
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  465. # [11:53] <zcorpan> thanks
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  471. # [12:04] <annevk> is that revoking language even correct?
  472. # [12:05] <annevk> you only want it to be revoked after you have used the URL somehow
  473. # [12:06] <annevk> that file API spec is turning into a mess
  474. # [12:08] <smaug____> why should it say anything about using the URL ?
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  479. # [12:12] <annevk> if you just create it, then wait a while before using it (waiting on some event) it would already be revoked
  480. # [12:12] <annevk> that seems kind of pointless
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  485. # [12:14] <zcorpan> yeah the autorevoke thing only allows the url to be referenced in the same script. and many things that fetch urls are themselves async, like e.g. <img src>
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  487. # [12:24] <zcorpan> should websocket binary messages allow scripts to read the message in a streaming fashion while it's being received, like with xhr?
  488. # [12:24] <zcorpan> right now the message event is only fired once the whole message has been received, afaict
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  490. # [12:26] <annevk> pretty much nothing in XHR is streaming fwiw
  491. # [12:26] <annevk> only responseText at the moment
  492. # [12:26] <annevk> maybe also responseType = "text"
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  501. # [12:45] <zcorpan> annevk: can't you get the partial data as blob or arraybuffer?
  502. # [12:46] <annevk> zcorpan: I don't really see how
  503. # [12:46] <annevk> we thought of allowing that at some point
  504. # [12:46] <annevk> with "I don't really see how" I mean that the current spec doesn't do it
  505. # [12:46] <annevk> see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/xhr/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#the-response-attribute
  506. # [12:47] <zcorpan> ah. i thought it wasn't null while LOADING
  507. # [12:49] <zcorpan> wouldn't it work to return a blob early and have it act like a file that loads slowly?
  508. # [12:50] <zcorpan> or maybe something different makes more sense for streaming use cases
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  516. # [12:59] <annevk> yeah that would work
  517. # [12:59] <annevk> I think implementors had some concerns
  518. # [12:59] <annevk> but we can still make that work in the future
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  523. # [13:01] <annevk> time to see the outside world
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  536. # [13:15] <Ms2ger> Pff
  537. # [13:15] <Ms2ger> The outside world is overrated
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  541. # [13:32] <hsivonen> hmm. does the new GWT ingest IDL from Gecko and WebKit or really C++?
  542. # [13:33] <hsivonen> if it really eats C++, that would be a failure for IDL
  543. # [13:34] <smaug____> hsivonen: link?
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  545. # [13:36] <hsivonen> smaug____: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOf27ez_Hvg&feature=plcp
  546. # [13:37] <hsivonen> (not really a time-efficient reference)
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  629. # [16:02] <zcorpan_> isn't it awesome when people talk in XML tags on mailing lists and suggest to replace HTML+CSS with XML+XSL?
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  674. # [17:11] <matjas> hsivonen: re: 404 page on <audio> testbed — http://twitter.com/yvg/status/223346356088094721
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  678. # [17:20] <miketaylr> matjas: pfffffffffft
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  680. # [17:24] <smaug____> zewt: an event listener can't know if something else runs before the next stable state
  681. # [17:24] <smaug____> (just an example)
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  683. # [17:24] <smaug____> also, the same task may for example dispatch several events
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  722. # [18:42] <hsivonen> matjas: thanks
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  741. # [19:08] * gsnedders contemplates starting a new cross-browser JS testsuite, again
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  744. # [19:11] <Ms2ger> gsnedders, at least join us at the W3C :)
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  759. # [19:34] <sedovsek> Hey, Is there any alternative for document.webkitHidden on iOs and Android devices?
  760. # [19:34] <Hixie> what does it do?
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  762. # [19:40] <sedovsek> https://developers.google.com/chrome/whitepapers/pagevisibility
  763. # [19:40] <sedovsek> Here are some examples.
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  784. # [20:22] <matjas> sedovsek (if you read the logs): http://mths.be/visibility demonstrates how you can fall back to focus/blur
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  786. # [20:25] <bencc> are svg animations standard in html5?
  787. # [20:27] <shepazu> bencc: technically, because SVG animations (SMIL) are part of SVG 1.1, which is the spec that HTML5 references, they are "standard"… but IE doesn't support them, and HTML does strictly require full support for SVG 1.1
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  789. # [20:28] <bencc> shepazu: it did support it in the past I think
  790. # [20:28] <bencc> shepazu: do you know if there are plans to support SMIL in IE10 or later?
  791. # [20:28] <shepazu> bencc: nope
  792. # [20:29] <shepazu> no plans for IE10
  793. # [20:29] <bencc> shepazu: that's sad :(
  794. # [20:29] <shepazu> I agree
  795. # [20:30] <shepazu> they are focusing on CSS animations, which you should be able to use with SVG
  796. # [20:30] <shepazu> I think that's all still being worked out, though
  797. # [20:30] <bencc> shepazu: ok
  798. # [20:30] <bencc> shepazu: can I do feature detection for beginElement or animate?
  799. # [20:31] <shepazu> bencc: you should think about using FakeSMIL
  800. # [20:31] <shepazu> it's a script lib shim that handles most of SMIL in SVG for IE
  801. # [20:31] * abstractj|lunch is now known as abstractj
  802. # [20:31] <bencc> cool. this? http://fakesmil.blogspot.co.il/
  803. # [20:31] <Hixie> wow, not counting the responsive images threads and not counting e-mails about adding new features, i'm down to just about 250 e-mails!
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  805. # [20:32] <shepazu> yeah
  806. # [20:32] <Hixie> (including those two categories, 1200 e-mails.)
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  808. # [20:32] <Hixie> (also including bugs: 1700 e-mails.)
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  811. # [20:33] <shepazu> bencc: it's a bit old, but it still works
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  813. # [20:33] <shepazu> it's not perfect, but it does the job for most things
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  815. # [20:35] <bencc> shepazu: I've just tried it and I still get the error
  816. # [20:35] <shepazu> bencc: what error?
  817. # [20:36] <bencc> shepazu: I'm adding the animate element dynamically so I'm not sure if the script cover this use case
  818. # [20:36] <shepazu> it should
  819. # [20:36] <bencc> Object doesn't support property or method 'beginElement'
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  822. # [20:37] <shepazu> bencc: yeah, it's not going to add that support if you're doing feature detection
  823. # [20:37] <shepazu> bencc: you have a jsfiddle?
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  826. # [20:38] <bencc> shepazu: not yet http://dpaste.com/769928/
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  828. # [20:38] <bencc> shepazu: what do you mean? I'm not doing feature detection
  829. # [20:38] <shepazu> ok
  830. # [20:38] <bencc> shepazu: I just included the script
  831. # [20:39] <shepazu> bencc: that snippet doesn't include fakesmil...
  832. # [20:39] <bencc> shepazu: I thought it should just work
  833. # [20:40] <shepazu> bencc: I can't debug if I don't have an example that should work...
  834. # [20:40] <bencc> shepazu: sure, I'll make one
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  843. # [20:47] <bencc> shepazu: this is without smil http://jsfiddle.net/DgMDV/1/
  844. # [20:47] <bencc> shepazu: works in FF but not in IE9
  845. # [20:47] <bencc> shepazu: now trying to add smil but I'm not sure how to use it
  846. # [20:48] <bencc> I mean fakesmil
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  848. # [20:48] <shepazu> http://leunen.me/fakesmile/faq.html#dev
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  850. # [20:52] <bencc> shepazu: I've added the script to the jsfiddle but there must be something more I need to do
  851. # [20:53] <shepazu> bencc: let me make a simple example
  852. # [20:53] <shepazu> it might take me a few minutes
  853. # [20:53] <bencc> thanks!
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  858. # [20:58] <Hixie> hmm, i wonder if there's a way to make bugzilla search results more computer-readable
  859. # [21:03] <bencc> shepazu: looks like there is a more recent version here: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smilteam/smil/MAIN/view/head:/smil.user.js
  860. # [21:09] <shepazu> bencc: I just realized I can't test it… I'm on a mac, and I don't have a browser that doesn't support SMIL :(
  861. # [21:09] <bencc> shepazu: I can
  862. # [21:10] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
  863. # [21:10] <bencc> the example will be useful in any case
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  869. # [21:16] <bencc> shepazu: I'm trying to add it with <svg ...><script type="text/ecmascript" xlink:href="smil.user.js"/>...</svg> but I'm not sure if it is loaded
  870. # [21:18] <MikeSmith> bencc: you serving it with an XML mime type?
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  874. # [21:20] <bencc> MikeSmith: no
  875. # [21:20] <bencc> MikeSmith: I don't know how to use it
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  877. # [21:21] <MikeSmith> bencc: I think what you're trying to do won't work unless you serve it with an XML mime type
  878. # [21:22] <MikeSmith> but I dunno really
  879. # [21:22] <MikeSmith> shepazu knows better than me
  880. # [21:22] <bencc> ok
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  882. # [21:26] <shepazu> bencc: my suggestion is to google uses of fakesmil, and find an example that works for you
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  884. # [21:28] <bencc> shepazu: I tried but can't find how to dynamically include it
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  912. # [22:30] <MikeSmith> hmm JSON-LD
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  960. # Session Close: Fri Jul 13 00:00:00 2012

The end :)