/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-07-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jul 22 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  21. # [01:22] <norbert_> hey all
  22. # [01:23] <norbert_> I just read this: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/12/07/21/2040257/html5-splits-into-two-standards
  23. # [01:23] <norbert_> and I'm curious, is this something that recently happened?
  24. # [01:24] <norbert_> or is /. reporting old stuff, and this is basically what you wrote about in Jan. 2011 http://blog.whatwg.org/html-is-the-new-html5
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  27. # [01:28] <Philip`> norbert_: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2012Jul/0119.html is probably the most relevant discussion of the new news
  28. # [01:29] <norbert_> thanks
  29. # [01:29] <Philip`> (I haven't actually read that, but I presume it's relevant...)
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  31. # [01:30] <Philip`> Previously the W3C version of the spec was mostly a subset of the WHATWG version, generated from the same source and edited by the same editor, but now they're effectively two independent forks (the WHATWG one with the original editor, the W3C one looking for a new editor), as far as I'm aware
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  35. # [01:53] <norbert_> maybe W3C and WHATWG can at least agree on some kind of canvas standard?
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  48. # [03:01] <Hixie> norbert_: the WHATWG spec will track whatever implementors do
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  400. # [12:18] <annevk> some articles on the fork
  401. # [12:18] <annevk> http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/22/3175248/html5-fork-w3c-whatwg
  402. # [12:19] <annevk> http://www.i-programmer.info/news/191-htmlcss/4531-which-html5-whatwg-and-w3c-split.html
  403. # [12:19] <annevk> http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/22/html5-work-splits-into-living-and-snapshot-standards-developers-need-not-standard/
  404. # [12:19] <annevk> nothing much interesting though
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  452. # [16:58] <BenoitRen> Hi all.
  453. # [16:59] <BenoitRen> There's an old website I maintain (webmistress vanished from the interwebs more than a decade ago), and I've been looking through it again recently to improve the HTML further. One thing I'm having trouble with is images that get referenced explicitly in the text.
  454. # [17:00] <BenoitRen> Like, you have <p><img src="..."></p><p>This picture shows blahblahblah.</p>
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  456. # [17:00] <BenoitRen> As this is supposed to be a standards compliant mirror of the original site, I don't have much leeway in changing the text. :/
  457. # [17:02] <BenoitRen> Example: http://users.skynet.be/fa258499/beyondalgo/story/you_guide.html
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  472. # [18:07] <AryehGregor> BenoitRen, what's wrong with images that get referenced explicitly in the text?
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  475. # [18:16] <BenoitRen> AryehGregor: The image might not be showing.
  476. # [18:17] <AryehGregor> BenoitRen, . . . and? You can't really do much about that. Provide alt text if that helps.
  477. # [18:17] <AryehGregor> But I mean, if the point of something is to talk about a picture, and the picture doesn't display, there's a limited amount you can do about it.
  478. # [18:17] <BenoitRen> AryehGregor: But what would I put in the alt text that logically precedes text like "This image shows...".
  479. # [18:17] <BenoitRen> ?
  480. # [18:18] <AryehGregor> I dunno. "Image of ..."
  481. # [18:18] <BenoitRen> That's usually bad alt text, though. :/
  482. # [18:18] <BenoitRen> alt text should be a replacement for the image.
  483. # [18:21] <AryehGregor> If possible.
  484. # [18:21] <AryehGregor> Or, rather, to the extent possible.
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  486. # [18:21] <AryehGregor> A good way to think about it is: "If I were reading this page to someone over the phone, how would I describe it?"
  487. # [18:21] <AryehGregor> The answer here would probably be something like "Then there's a picture of X, and after that it says . . ."
  488. # [18:22] <BenoitRen> Yeah.
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  491. # [18:22] <AryehGregor> Sometimes you can't do any better than that.
  492. # [18:22] <AryehGregor> In other cases, you might read what the picture says (if it's really text in picture format), or just skip it (if it's decorative), and that's fine too.
  493. # [18:23] <AryehGregor> Although I think I read a survey of blind users who say they'd prefer to have decorative images mentioned.
  494. # [18:23] <AryehGregor> I guess because that just gives them a better idea of what the page contains.
  495. # [18:25] <boogyman> AryehGregor: can you give me an example of a semantically appropriate decorative image
  496. # [18:25] <AryehGregor> I don't know what that means.
  497. # [18:26] <AryehGregor> So no. :)
  498. # [18:27] <boogyman> An example of a decorative image that has meaning in the context of its placement, instead of just there for visual "decorative purposes".
  499. # [18:27] <boogyman> CSS and image replacement is around of a reason :| for the latter
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  501. # [18:34] <BenoitRen> But a decorative image by definition isn't semantic...
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The end :)