/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-07-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jul 25 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  4. # [00:00] <Hixie> define an interface (or preferred, use an existing interface if there is one) for each event that needs a particular set of data sent with the event
  5. # [00:00] <Hixie> most events don't need any data and can just use Event
  6. # [00:00] * Joins: wakaba (~wakaba@75.22.102.121.dy.bbexcite.jp)
  7. # [00:00] <Hixie> (the HTML spec has many examples if you want to crib from that)
  8. # [00:01] <TabAtkins> The html spec no longer has the event index.
  9. # [00:01] <Hixie> search for [Init : Event]
  10. # [00:01] <Hixie> or [eventInit]
  11. # [00:01] <Ms2ger> Interface / type are orthogonal, really
  12. # [00:02] <Hixie> btw you can make a property not existing in WebIDL, just define it as a named property
  13. # [00:02] <Hixie> and then say when it's in the list of supported property names or not
  14. # [00:02] <Hixie> pretty unusual and ugly though
  15. # [00:02] <TabAtkins> heycam just now said that's okay. ^_^
  16. # [00:03] <Hixie> generally speaking you want the property to be present so you can set it
  17. # [00:03] <Ms2ger> Matches how those are usually represented in CSSOM
  18. # [00:03] <Hixie> a property being present doesn't mean the underlying field is present
  19. # [00:04] <Hixie> it's pretty standard in apis to expose all the possible fields and have a value that means "no value", namely, null
  20. # [00:04] <Hixie> "undefined" is more of a JS thing meaning "this property doesn't exist"
  21. # [00:04] <Hixie> really only applicable where other languages would refuse to compile :-)
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  23. # [00:05] <zewt> well, i like how Lua does it; there's no distinction between a nil item in a dictionary and not existing
  24. # [00:06] <zewt> setting a value to nil is how you remove it from a dictionary
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  34. # [00:11] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: Why, in the how2spec example, does "type" show up both as the first argument to the constructor, and in the init dictionary?
  35. # [00:12] <Ms2ger> Wait, type in the dictionary?
  36. # [00:12] <Ms2ger> Sounds like a bug
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  38. # [00:14] <TabAtkins> Okay, cool.
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  40. # [00:15] <TabAtkins> Is the "type" in the attributes a bug too, since it should be inheriting that from Event already?
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  42. # [00:17] <Hixie> what's the url to this page so i can go clean it up
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  46. # [00:21] <TabAtkins> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Howto_spec#Events_implementing_their_own_interface
  47. # [00:22] <TabAtkins> (Damn adobe network temporarily drops about every 20 minutes.)
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  49. # [00:23] <Hixie> ah, i think whoever wrote that just got confused and used "type" because they forgot about Event.type
  50. # [00:24] <Hixie> it's not meant to be related
  51. # [00:24] <Hixie> reload now
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  53. # [00:25] <Hixie> the event handler stuff is out of date
  54. # [00:25] <Hixie> let me fix that too
  55. # [00:25] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
  56. # [00:27] <gsnedders> Hixie: Tied to a device isn't the relevant point. It's about having a centralized store for contacts — it doesn't matter whether the contacts API works by delegating to some web service or whether it stores it on the device directly
  57. # [00:28] <Hixie> should just be implemented as a web service, imho
  58. # [00:28] <Hixie> possibly delegated using something like intents
  59. # [00:28] <gsnedders> But what web service?
  60. # [00:28] <gsnedders> The point is to have prefs set in one place, across the device, that can control where the prefs are stored.
  61. # [00:28] <TabAtkins> Hixie: Thanks for the update. Much less confusing now. ^_^
  62. # [00:28] <Hixie> TabAtkins: updated the next bit too
  63. # [00:29] <TabAtkins> Okay, so even if I plan to have only a single event in this category, I still need to have a type attribute?
  64. # [00:30] <Hixie> there's no type attribute
  65. # [00:30] <Hixie> what do you mean
  66. # [00:30] <Hixie> i'm confused
  67. # [00:30] <Hixie> what?
  68. # [00:30] <TabAtkins> So, like "new FontFaceEvent('load')" rather than "new FontFaceLoadEvent()"
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  70. # [00:30] <Hixie> oh, yes, because anyone can create an event that uses this interface
  71. # [00:30] <Hixie> the Event-inheriting interface and the event type are entirely orthogonal
  72. # [00:31] <Hixie> gsnedders: imho a Contacts API should define a common API mediated over something like MessagePorts and initiated via something like intents, which both the OS and any Web sites can offer to implement and provide
  73. # [00:31] <TabAtkins> Okay, so we're back to what I was trying to say, that the interface defines a group of events, with type used to distinguish specifically which event from the group is being sent.
  74. # [00:31] <Hixie> gsnedders: and the web browser doesn't need to know anything about it
  75. # [00:32] <Hixie> TabAtkins: more or less. pedantically, the interface defines a set of fields that events can use, there's no formal grouping of events into event types.
  76. # [00:32] * gsnedders knows little of web intents
  77. # [00:32] <TabAtkins> Right. Okay, that makes sense then.
  78. # [00:32] <Hixie> TabAtkins: and when you fire an event, you pick the interface it should use.
  79. # [00:32] <Hixie> TabAtkins: and the event type name
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  170. # [05:40] <zewt> i'm declaring the most useless often-used feature of HTML: copying/pasting HTML
  171. # [05:40] <zewt> every single time I copy text from one webpage and paste it into something like gmail or evernote I have to paste it into vim and copy it to get rid fo styling, or it pastes in some gigantic font or something else equally useless
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  224. # [08:54] <benschwarz> Hixie: !ping
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  231. # [09:27] <annevk> the new memes cracked me up
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  233. # [09:31] <annevk> http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/~distler/blog/archives/002545.html <video poster> implementations are kind of bad when it comes to small videos
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  241. # [10:09] <hsivonen> annevk: I observe that Jacques Distler's blog is not using MathML-in-text/html yet :-/
  242. # [10:10] <annevk> what's the benefit for him?
  243. # [10:11] <hsivonen> no benefit, I suppose, at the point where all XML bugs have been fixed and everything works
  244. # [10:12] <hsivonen> well, at least we carefully engineered the parsing algorithm to cater to the use cases seen on his blog
  245. # [10:13] <annevk> :)
  246. # [10:14] <annevk> the main benefit of HTML I guess is that you can use math entities and they will always work
  247. # [10:14] <annevk> whereas in XML it depends on whether the DTD is loaded
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  249. # [10:15] <hsivonen> also, with current implementations, the page might load a tiny bit faster as HTML thanks to speculative loading on the HTML code path
  250. # [10:16] <annevk> but I think he normalizes them away
  251. # [10:18] <hsivonen> http://98.245.80.27/tcpc/OSCON2011/gbu.html is interesting
  252. # [10:20] <annevk> pretty positive over Go
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  260. # [10:28] <hsivonen> http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7201&to=7202 isn't a particularly useful response to the email hober sent. Basically, it kicks the problem the validator developers' court
  261. # [10:28] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: indeed
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  264. # [10:29] <annevk> hsivonen: only if you decide it's worth the additional UI
  265. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> hsivonen: have you seen http://validator.keegan.st/ yet?
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  267. # [10:32] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: I haven't
  268. # [10:32] * hsivonen looks
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  271. # [10:35] <hsivonen> MikeSmith: supporting CORS without a specific use case seems to have paid off
  272. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> yeah
  273. # [10:36] <MikeSmith> think it would be worthwhile to upstream that filter feature?
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  276. # [10:40] <hsivonen> potentially, yes. need to play with it some more to have a proper opinion
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  321. # [12:04] <annevk> heh http://www.netmagazine.com/interviews/ian-hickson-html5-vs-html
  322. # [12:04] <annevk> they still use the same old picture
  323. # [12:07] <annevk> http://my.opera.com/hallvors/blog/2012/07/25/sometimes-it-helps-to-speak-norwegian-in-new-zealand sounds fucked up
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  325. # [12:08] <annevk> an <input type=submit> always has a value?
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  338. # [12:34] <jgraham> Sweet jesus someone has to find a better picture of Hixie
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  340. # [12:44] <tantek> the netmagazine article was pretty decent
  341. # [12:44] <tantek> obligatory troll commentary aside
  342. # [12:44] <tantek> s/troll/trollish
  343. # [12:45] <tantek> jgraham - what's wrong with the picture of Hixie - is it too old?
  344. # [12:46] <tantek> annevk - that *is* an odd bug re: submit.
  345. # [12:48] <Stevef_> tantek: what is trollish about the comment?
  346. # [12:49] <tantek> Stevef_ not comment, just some trollish commentary in the article itself.
  347. # [12:49] <tantek> I didn't notice anything trollish about your comment.
  348. # [12:49] <Stevef_> tantek: OK just checking
  349. # [12:52] <tantek> Stevef_ if you're curious, the "quicksand" comparison was what I was referring to.
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  351. # [12:52] <Stevef_> tantek: ah OK
  352. # [12:53] <Stevef_> tantek: missed mention of shelley previoulsy...
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  354. # [13:03] <odinho> ;-)
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  356. # [13:05] * Ms2ger thinks it better not to comment on Shelley
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  360. # [13:28] <hsivonen> What's new in Opera Mobile for Android: 'Improved handling of meta-tag "format detection"'
  361. # [13:28] <hsivonen> what does that really mean?
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  371. # [13:37] <tantek> hsivonen - plenty of "formats" have been proposed recently (the past year + ) that use meta-tags (e.g. Facebook OGP, Twitter Cards), perhaps they're referring to some of those.
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  374. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> so never took time to count up myself how many specs for Web APIs are in development in various working groups, but Erik Wilde did: http://dret.typepad.com/dretblog/html5-api-overview.html
  375. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> so we have on the order of 50 different specs
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  386. # [13:52] <hsivonen> It would be interesting to do a analysis 'Who ISSUEs HTML5?' and tabulate stats about whose grievances have been raised as ISSUEs, who writes CPs, whose CPs get accepted and whose accepted CPs also got accepted in WHATWG HTML and whose not
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  392. # [14:06] <odinho> hsivonen: No idea.
  393. # [14:07] <hsivonen> odinho: ok. not the clearest release note line item
  394. # [14:08] <odinho> hsivonen: You could say that. :] I asked if anyone knew.
  395. # [14:08] <odinho> I could search around but I'm not that interested :P
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  398. # [14:24] <MikeSmith> hmm I guess it would be useful to make an alphabetical list list of specs like http://dret.typepad.com/dretblog/html5-api-overview.html but also include the CSS3 specs and the non-W3C ones that Erik omits from that
  399. # [14:24] <MikeSmith> with those included it's more on the order of 60 specs
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  403. # [14:31] <hsivonen> dealing with some of my least favorite parts of the platform: session history and window.open
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  409. # [14:40] <odinho> hsivonen: Found this in the bugtracker (for that changelog entry): The other problem worth to mention is Google Play limiting number of characters in changelogs, so we always need to be as short as possible ;)
  410. # [14:41] <odinho> hsivonen: But it's not linking to the real bug, so I still don't know what it means, but now know why the log entry is so criptic :P
  411. # [14:41] <hsivonen> odinho: thanks
  412. # [14:42] <odinho> hsivonen: FOUND IT!
  413. # [14:43] <odinho> http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#featuredarticles/iPhoneURLScheme_Reference/Articles/PhoneLinks.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40007893-SW1 ---> <meta name = "format-detection" content = "telephone=no">
  414. # [14:43] <odinho> this here thing
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  416. # [14:46] <hsivonen> odinho: thanks. totally non-obvious from the relnotes
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  420. # [14:47] <odinho> hsivonen: yes, agreed. But probably because Play store had a length limit on changelogs. Should've been a link to something bigger though.
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  422. # [15:00] <hsivonen> hmm. I don't see an invitation to bring <picture> to the HTML WG on the Responsive Images GC's mailing list
  423. # [15:00] <hsivonen> I wonder who did the invitation and why
  424. # [15:02] <hsivonen> I suspect the Responsive Images folks are going to face more of http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/23122022271
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  426. # [15:02] <hsivonen> "And then we told them ... to submit a proposal to the HTML WG"
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  430. # [15:05] <odinho> lol, the tantek one is pure gold :D
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  432. # [15:10] * Ms2ger looks around http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/pettay/moztests/xmlevents/
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  436. # [15:16] <hsivonen> at times, fixing about:blank feels hopeless
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  453. # [15:41] <hsivonen> I wish the testing staff funded by Adobe, Microsoft and Google writes some good session history tests
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  462. # [16:02] <hsivonen> am I the only one who read Maciej's advice about how to proceed with the era attribute as "Don't bother, but if you want a formal rejection, do this."?
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  482. # [16:46] <AryehGregor> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/svgdom.html#__svg__SVG_MATRIX_NOT_INVERTABLE
  483. # [16:46] <AryehGregor> Really?
  484. # [16:46] <AryehGregor> INVERTABLE?
  485. # [16:46] <AryehGregor> That made it into a spec?
  486. # [16:46] <AryehGregor> "Referer" is one thing, I'd like to think we're more professional now . . .
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  492. # [16:49] <Ms2ger> Well
  493. # [16:49] <Ms2ger> SVGDOM
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  495. # [16:51] <odinho> Referer <3
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  505. # [17:12] <heycam> AryehGregor, sorry about that, I added a note to SVG 1.1 Second Edition pointing out the unconventional spelling :)
  506. # [17:12] <heycam> AryehGregor, (we're moving to Web IDL exception types soon anyway)
  507. # [17:12] <AryehGregor> Yay!
  508. # [17:12] <AryehGregor> Wait, WebIDL and not DOM?
  509. # [17:12] <heycam> AryehGregor, oh using the DOM ones
  510. # [17:12] <AryehGregor> Ah.
  511. # [17:12] <heycam> I don't think we need any specific SVG ones
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  513. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> Oh
  514. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> I thought you guys did that ages ago
  515. # [17:17] <jarek> SVG DOM is awful
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  517. # [17:18] <jarek> anyone here thinks that SVGPathSegCurvetoQuadraticSmoothRel is a good name?
  518. # [17:19] <jarek> looks a bit over-descriptive :/
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  527. # [17:47] <odinho> jarek: Looks like Objective-C/Apple API's.
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  537. # [18:04] <gsnedders> jarek: It's an awesome name!
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  559. # [18:36] <Hixie> MikeSmith: to be fair, seven of those are fragments of the HTML spec
  560. # [18:37] <Hixie> and several of them are "native api" specs that really don't belong on the web in the first place imho
  561. # [18:38] <Hixie> or should be done as intent-driven web apis not implemented by the browser
  562. # [18:38] <Hixie> and he lists xhr and xhr2 as separate specs
  563. # [18:38] <Hixie> and media capture twice
  564. # [18:38] <Hixie> would be nice to have platform.html5.org updated to include any that were missed though
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  569. # [18:53] <annevk> Hixie: maybe we need meta@whatwg.org? http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/02/listen-to-your-community-but-dont-let-them-tell-you-what-to-do.html
  570. # [18:54] <annevk> on the other hand, we've been mostly good for eight years
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  584. # [19:06] * karlcow weird
  585. # [19:06] * karlcow wonders what is the correct term instead of INVERTABLE?
  586. # [19:06] <annevk> INVERTIBLE
  587. # [19:06] <karlcow> annevk: thanks
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  589. # [19:09] <jzaefferer> The spec is pretty ambigous about popstate event being fired on pageload: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/history.html - now we have Chrome doing that, Firefox not. I'd like to see that fixed before we get stuck with that mess forever. Looking for some guidance how.
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  593. # [19:10] <jzaefferer> from the MDN article https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/window.onpopstate - "Browsers tend to handle the popstate event differently on page load. Chrome and Safari always emit a popstate event on page load, but Firefox doesn't." - that sucks for users
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  595. # [19:12] <jzaefferer> MikeSmith: as my goto-whatwg person, any comment on the above?
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  597. # [19:13] <Ms2ger> jzaefferer, file a bug to get it defined
  598. # [19:14] <jzaefferer> Ms2ger: okay, which tracker would be the right one?
  599. # [19:15] <Ms2ger> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=WHATWG&component=HTML
  600. # [19:16] <jzaefferer> okay, thanks
  601. # [19:18] <Ms2ger> Np
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  603. # [19:24] <tantek> annevk - the meta topic is interesting from a community management perspective.
  604. # [19:25] <tantek> however, it tends to eventually be dominated by people that don't love a community (as Atwood suggests), but by people that love meta for meta's sake.
  605. # [19:25] <tantek> prime example: the amount of time spent discussing, arguing, and trying to meet the steps for "process" at W3C.
  606. # [19:26] <tantek> so no, I don't think we need meta@whatwg.org
  607. # [19:27] <tantek> I mean unless you want to create a support group ;) for people who love meta for meta's sake *and* somehow found themselves involved with whatwg. It could be an interesting honeypot, to keep meta talk out of other fora.
  608. # [19:29] <hober> it could be useful as a honeypot
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  615. # [19:33] * karlcow is not subscribing to meta ☺ ever
  616. # [19:33] <karlcow> already enough of nonsense everywhere
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  618. # [19:36] <annevk> tantek: fair enough
  619. # [19:37] <tantek> karlcow - but you *love* discussing process :)
  620. # [19:37] <Ms2ger> tantek, well, the point is to keep them away from the productive people ;)
  621. # [19:38] <annevk> tantek: I wasn't quite sure what we'd use it for either, just thought I'd suggest it so it could be considered
  622. # [19:40] <tantek> I feel like #whatwg provides a sufficient meta-forum. Perhaps consider meta@ lazily, that is, avoid it until someone makes a strong case+demand for it, and then give it to them.
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  626. # [19:40] <karlcow> tantek: not really ☺ I love understanding/observing communities. I do not think there is one solution for all. I have the gut feeling that all Process often fails at having an annotated version with links to historical references.
  627. # [19:40] <tantek> +1 on Process often fails at having an annotated version with links to historical references
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  630. # [19:42] <tantek> karlcow - in addition, I think the bigger failure of most process documentation is that it fails to document what's specifically been avoided/rejected (and why).
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  634. # [19:50] * karlcow is still thinking about that last sentence from Tantek
  635. # [19:50] <Hixie> tantek++ re not neeting a meta mailing list
  636. # [19:50] <Hixie> and re #whatwg being it
  637. # [19:50] <Hixie> needing, even
  638. # [19:51] <Hixie> that typo bodes poorly for the day's activities
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  640. # [19:52] <karlcow> hmmm lightly to heavily documented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stare_decisis#Civil_law_systems differences depending on countries
  641. # [19:52] <Ms2ger> Hixie, might give you a nice set of easy typo-bugs tomorrow :)
  642. # [19:53] <Hixie> hah
  643. # [19:53] <Hixie> got plenty of those already
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  645. # [19:57] <Hixie> volkmar: yt?
  646. # [20:01] <volkmar> Hixie: yes
  647. # [20:03] <Hixie> volkmar: do you know much abotu setMessageHandler()? as in https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/mozilla.dev.webapi/o8bkwx0EtmM
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  655. # [20:14] <volkmar> damn, I was going to send you that link :)
  656. # [20:15] <volkmar> what do you want to know?
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  679. # [20:57] <Hixie> tantek: do you have an ETA for the autocomplete feedback you were going to send btw? (for planning purposes)
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  682. # [21:02] <Hixie> for anyone who is interested, my current (incomplete and in parts wrong) strawman proposal for merging all the various content handlers, web intents, web activities, system messages, etc, proposals is: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/scratch
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  694. # [21:40] <Wilto> hsivonen: Ian Jacobs reached out to me on behalf of the HTML WG chairs, to the best of my knowledge.
  695. # [21:41] <Wilto> hsivonen: That is, simply to post the proposal to the list.
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  698. # [21:47] <annevk> http://html5.org/r/7203 lol
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  700. # [21:47] <Hixie> :-P
  701. # [21:48] <annevk> haven't seen requests for XMLHttpRequest yet
  702. # [21:48] <Hixie> weird
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  708. # [21:51] <hober> Hixie: what's the use case for having "new" AND "reuse"?
  709. # [21:51] <Hixie> most intents won't be able to handle the same page being used for two intents
  710. # [21:51] <Hixie> think, e-mail compose window intent handler
  711. # [21:52] <Hixie> so for those, you'd want "new"
  712. # [21:52] <Ms2ger> annevk, count this as a request :)
  713. # [21:52] <Hixie> "reuse" is for the cases where the app can in fact handle multiple things at once
  714. # [21:52] <Hixie> hober: does that make sense?
  715. # [21:52] <annevk> Ms2ger: you don't count :p
  716. # [21:52] <Hixie> hober: (btw, your input on this in general is very welcome, i'm very interested in safari and opera input on this since it has mostly been a mozilla and chrome thing so far)
  717. # [21:53] <hober> I suppose. Being stupid or lossy under the "reuse" behavior seems like a bad way to code an intent handler.
  718. # [21:53] <Hixie> (also interested in IE feedback, should any Microsoft people be lurking here or reading the logs)
  719. # [21:53] * jonlee|afk is now known as jonlee
  720. # [21:53] <Hixie> hober: right, hence why you'd say you're a "new" handler, then you don't have to worry about it
  721. # [21:53] <Hixie> hober: you wouldn't want all your e-mail compose intents to end up in the same tab :-)
  722. # [21:54] <Hixie> or all your "open PDF in new window" intents :-)
  723. # [21:54] <hober> why would "open pdf in new window" have anything to do with this mechanism? :)
  724. # [21:55] <Hixie> PDF viewing sites might well call registerContentHandler() for application/pdf
  725. # [21:55] <hober> "PDF viewing sites" *shudder*
  726. # [21:55] <Hixie> ok, 3D Model Viewing Sites
  727. # [21:55] <Hixie> whatever :-)
  728. # [21:56] <Hixie> think of Pages as a web page
  729. # [21:56] <Hixie> it handles the "open Pages app" intent
  730. # [21:56] <Hixie> er
  731. # [21:56] <Hixie> "open Pages doc" intent
  732. # [21:56] <Hixie> but each Pages doc ends up in a new Window
  733. # [21:56] <Hixie> so it's like "new"
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  735. # [21:57] <Hixie> but then consider the "open MP3 doc" intent that iTunes supports
  736. # [21:57] <Hixie> it handles all of them in the same window
  737. # [21:57] <Hixie> so it's like "reuse"
  738. # [22:01] * abstractj|lunch is now known as abstractj
  739. # [22:01] <hober> *nod*
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  741. # [22:03] <annevk> oh hober
  742. # [22:03] <annevk> poor you
  743. # [22:03] <annevk> I mean, have the funnest time
  744. # [22:03] <hober> On the plus side, I don't have to think much about what my Halloween costume will be at TPAC this year
  745. # [22:03] <annevk> haha
  746. # [22:04] <Hixie> because you'll have given up and become an alpaca farmer by then? :-)
  747. # [22:04] <hober> (Zoidberg, obviously)
  748. # [22:05] <Hixie> do you know when the four of you will begin editing?
  749. # [22:05] <annevk> I considered alpaca farming, but then the tent froze over during the night and I decided not to
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  752. # [22:05] <hober> hahahaha
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  755. # [22:05] <Hixie> hober: (i'm mainly curious about when i should bother approaching y'all to see how you want to handle getting new bugs to both teams)
  756. # [22:07] <Ms2ger> I guess I could see that coming
  757. # [22:09] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
  758. # [22:11] <hober> Hixie: the initial meeting hasn't even happened, so "not this week" is probably a safe answer.
  759. # [22:12] <Hixie> you're going to have meetings?
  760. # [22:12] <Hixie> oh poor poor hober
  761. # [22:12] <Hixie> lunch, bbiab
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  790. # [23:26] <tantek> Hixie - re: autocomplete feedback completion ETA, good estimate would be next Monday, though I plan to work on it a bunch today.
  791. # [23:26] <tantek> I'll be basing my feedback on editing in real-time the hcard-input page in case anyone is interested in stalking/following along (edit notifications also go to #microformats) http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-input#next_actions
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  807. # [23:56] <Hixie> Any quirks mode spec people around?
  808. # [23:57] * jonlee is now known as jonlee|afk
  809. # Session Close: Thu Jul 26 00:00:00 2012

The end :)