/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-08-26 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  135. # [08:51] <annevk> teehee, twitter profile pages are /{username} again
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  146. # [09:20] * Ms2ger loves how Hixie consistently used dom-cva-checkValidatity
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  149. # [09:27] <Hixie> i use copy and paste a _lot_ :-)
  150. # [09:28] <Hixie> and emacs' dabbrev-expand
  151. # [09:28] <Hixie> (i even have that bound to my foot pedal)
  152. # [09:32] * Ms2ger notes: "Essential to spec editing: a foot pedal"
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  204. # [12:05] <annevk> can someone please check http://annevankesteren.nl/about for weird mistakes?
  205. # [12:05] <annevk> (also not so weird mistakes)
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  209. # [12:30] <deane> annevk: Hi, try validating it
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  213. # [13:00] <annevk> hmm, what's 'Unsupported character encoding name: charset=utf-8. Will sniff.'
  214. # [13:01] <annevk> sounds like a bug in the validator
  215. # [13:01] <annevk> MikeSmith: is that because you recently changed the regular expression the validator uses for encodings?
  216. # [13:01] <annevk> hsivonen: ^^
  217. # [13:04] <annevk> MikeSmith: hsivonen: I suspect it might be because I have no space between ";" and "charset", which is perfectly legal, but might be a case you have not considered
  218. # [13:05] <deane> annevk: yeah, try it at validator.w3.org and it works
  219. # [13:05] <deane> which would be an older revision of validator.nu
  220. # [13:08] <annevk> nice that I also manage to break validators
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  226. # [13:17] <annevk> Ms2ger: has Microsoft forked DOM Parsing & Serlialization yet?
  227. # [13:17] <Ms2ger> Haven't seen anything yet
  228. # [13:22] <annevk> With standards it seems you really need to take a break that lasts longer than a couple of months before anything substantive has happened
  229. # [13:24] <Ms2ger> I'd rather you didn't :)
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  243. # [14:35] <MikeSmith> MikeSmith: I actually a replaced that regular expression with a state machine
  244. # [14:36] <MikeSmith> annevk: ↑
  245. # [14:36] <MikeSmith> so yeah I probably forgot to deal with the no-space case there
  246. # [14:37] <MikeSmith> annevk: this is for the Content-Type header, right?
  247. # [14:39] <MikeSmith> annevk: ah actually it's working at http://validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fannevankesteren.nl%2F
  248. # [14:40] <MikeSmith> which has the latest code, with that regexp replaced by the new parser
  249. # [14:40] <MikeSmith> so I think the error at validator.nu is because Henri has not pulled that new code yet
  250. # [14:45] <annevk> interesting
  251. # [14:45] <annevk> because I think I used to validate on validator.nu
  252. # [14:46] <annevk> thanks MikeSmith
  253. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> I'll take a look again the old regexp and see
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  255. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> weird
  256. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> "^\\s*charset\\s*=\\s*(?:\"([^\"\\s]+)\")|([^\"\\s]+)\\s*$"
  257. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> is what is was
  258. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> so it should be working even if Henri's still running the old code
  259. # [14:50] <MikeSmith> and the case in the new code for it looks like this: https://gist.github.com/3478622
  260. # [14:50] <MikeSmith> so it should work either way as far as I tell
  261. # [14:59] <annevk> weird that it doesn't, then
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  266. # [15:19] <smaug____> annevk: ping
  267. # [15:19] <smaug____> (welcome back)
  268. # [15:19] <annevk> hey smaug____
  269. # [15:20] <smaug____> annevk: I wonder the status of element.prepend() etc new methods
  270. # [15:20] <smaug____> there was some discussion to change before and after
  271. # [15:20] <annevk> I think they're all good, though I just read a thread between episodes about before/after
  272. # [15:20] <annevk> indeed
  273. # [15:21] <annevk> not that I agree with everything Alex writes, but the library argument http://infrequently.org/2012/08/inadmissible-arguments/ did not seem particularly compelling
  274. # [15:21] <annevk> the whole reason we added these was to have shorter names
  275. # [15:22] <annevk> (and ES6-style API)
  276. # [15:22] <smaug____> hmm, /me doesn't actually understand what all can be passed to those methods
  277. # [15:22] <smaug____> and in which way
  278. # [15:22] <smaug____> I guess element.prepend("asdfo", someotherelement, "bar");
  279. # [15:23] <annevk> that's like inserting a DocumentFragment consisting of a text, element, and a text node
  280. # [15:23] <smaug____> it is not, because the argument is something else
  281. # [15:23] <smaug____> I mean, is it an array
  282. # [15:24] <smaug____> or is it a list of separate parameters
  283. # [15:24] * smaug____ reads webidl..
  284. # [15:24] <annevk> it's not an array
  285. # [15:25] <smaug____> yup
  286. # [15:26] <annevk> and by stable I mean that everyone agreed to the design when we added it, but I don't think anyone gave the actual text a careful reading
  287. # [15:27] <annevk> smaug____: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#mutation-method-macro takes care of converting stuff to a DocumentFragment
  288. # [15:27] <smaug____> I wonder who strings are handled
  289. # [15:27] <annevk> smaug____: you don't actually have to do that of course in your implementation
  290. # [15:27] <smaug____> how
  291. # [15:27] <smaug____> I mean, is toString() called
  292. # [15:28] <annevk> smaug____: WebIDL handles that
  293. # [15:28] <smaug____> I hope so
  294. # [15:28] <annevk> me too :)
  295. # [15:28] <annevk> but I'm pretty sure it does
  296. # [15:29] * smaug____ downloads D4 and WebIDL for offline reading... boarding in any minute
  297. # [15:29] <annevk> hehe
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  312. # [16:58] <zewt> annevk: i think i strongly dislike the before/after names too; it sounds like a query, like "search for a node with this CSS selector starting with this element and moving backward", not like a mutator
  313. # [17:00] <zewt> fwiw, while i definitely agree that a lot of the old DOM names are way too long (getElementById needs to die), i think the insertBefore name is just fine
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  316. # [17:08] <zewt> currently writing code to manipulate XML using minidom and it's making me a sad person
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  334. # [17:58] <jgraham> zewt: Why would you do that?
  335. # [18:00] <jgraham> (also the problem I have with insertBefore is that it's on the wrong node, so I can never remember the order of the arguments parent.insertBefore(target, reference) is crazy compared to reference.addBefore(target)
  336. # [18:00] <jgraham> )
  337. # [18:01] <jgraham> (although I guess it could be target.addBefore(reference). So I kind of underminded my own point there. But at least you only need two nood references around, not 3)
  338. # [18:02] <jgraham> *node
  339. # [18:02] <jgraham> *undermined
  340. # [18:02] <zewt> (jgraham: because all XML implementations suck and from the ones I've used recently it has the right set of bugs)
  341. # [18:04] <jgraham> zewt: Wow you must have a weird set of requirements
  342. # [18:04] <zewt> well recently i've used it, ET and lxml
  343. # [18:05] <zewt> iirc lxml (or at least the ones installed in OSX by default, I think newer ones improve it) wouldn't pass through doctypes, don't recall the issue I hit with ET off-hand
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  345. # [18:06] <jgraham> I pretty much exclusively use lxml, but happily almost never have to care about doctypes
  346. # [18:06] <zewt> i don't personally care, but I'm editing external data in-place so I don't want things messed with that don't have to be
  347. # [18:06] <jgraham> I see
  348. # [18:07] * Ms2ger just uses JS
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  351. # [18:23] <zewt> am I the only person who can never remember if it's "startswith" or "beginswith"?
  352. # [18:25] <Ms2ger> startswith
  353. # [18:29] <jgraham> zewt: Well that's one I have never had difficulty with
  354. # [18:29] * Philip` finds it much easier to remember "$s =~ /^foo/" than "s.startswith('foo')"
  355. # [18:30] * Ms2ger murders Philip`
  356. # [18:30] <jgraham> Philip` was strange
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  359. # [18:32] <zewt> "starts" and "begins" are in the same hash bucket in my mind; something like "isprefixed" would have been more distinct, if a little uglier
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  474. # Session Close: Mon Aug 27 00:00:00 2012

The end :)