/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-09-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Sep 03 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  8. # [00:24] <Smylers> For <base href=http://example.com> without a trailing slash on the URL, getting the href property returns http://example.com/ with the trailing slash in some browsers.
  9. # [00:25] <Smylers> Reading through http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/semantics.html#dom-base-href I can't spot any step which says to add that trailing slash.
  10. # [00:25] <Smylers> Am I missing it?
  11. # [00:26] * Hixie looks
  12. # [00:26] <Smylers> Hixie: Thanks.
  13. # [00:26] <Smylers> This page reports that Firefox, Opera, and Safari add the trailing slash, and IE doesn't: http://notes.minty.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Fixing_Base_Href_Javascript_Document.Location_For_Internet_Explorer
  14. # [00:26] <Smylers> I've only personally checked Firefox, which does add it.
  15. # [00:26] <Hixie> the absolute URL returned by the "Resolve" algorithm always includes that leading slash
  16. # [00:26] <Hixie> ("leading" because it's the first one in the path)
  17. # [00:27] <Smylers> Hixie: Thanks. I'll read it again more carefully.
  18. # [00:27] <Hixie> i'm not sure you'll find it
  19. # [00:27] <Hixie> the "resolve" algorithm is currently pointing at a vague RFC
  20. # [00:27] <Hixie> we hope to write a more detailed spec in due course
  21. # [00:28] <Hixie> (i think anne's the one working on that)
  22. # [00:30] <Smylers> Ah.
  23. # [00:30] <Smylers> I read that RFC before asking here.
  24. # [00:35] <Smylers> I read it as at the Parse step the RFC parses hier-part, picking the path-abempty option, which allows the empty string. So <path> is then set, but empty, and that gets copied across through the rest of the algorithm, still being empty at the end.
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  56. # [03:01] <zewt> sort of amusing to see people talking about one of the first things i raised on webapps a year and a half ago
  57. # [03:02] <zewt> The Web Platform: Software Development Patience
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  83. # [05:01] <cabanier> zewt: the canvas conversation?
  84. # [05:04] <zewt> sync messages
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  144. # [10:21] <annevk> whoa
  145. # [10:21] <annevk> 2119 had errata?
  146. # [10:22] <annevk> maybe they should have another one to remove RECOMMEND, NOT RECOMMEND, and OPTIONAL
  147. # [10:22] <annevk> *ED
  148. # [10:22] <annevk> oh, and SHALL, SHALL NOT
  149. # [10:23] <annevk> being able to recommend rather than encourage without it meaning SHOULD is nice
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  165. # [11:33] <deano> annevk: Welcome back.
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  182. # [12:31] <jgraham> http://www.hackermusings.com/2012/08/using-git-to-push-to-mozillas-hg-repositories/ seems quite interesting
  183. # [12:31] <jgraham> MikeSmith: ^
  184. # [12:31] <annevk> thanks deane
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  189. # [12:53] <deane> annevk: Hey there. Not sure if you read the logs or not, so not sure if you saw this => http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120901#l-384
  190. # [12:55] <annevk> deane: thanks, matjas, not sure what you want me to say
  191. # [12:55] <annevk> matjas: I suggest convincing abarth
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  200. # [13:24] <Smylers> annevk: Re http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20120903#l-8 onwards, is Hixie's thought that you are working on it right?
  201. # [13:24] <Smylers> Is there a bug tracking this specific point, or should I file one?
  202. # [13:25] <annevk> Smylers: I have done some work on parsing URLs; the idea is that you will end up with the / once you serialize such an object
  203. # [13:25] <Smylers> Thanks.
  204. # [13:25] <annevk> Smylers: but I'm not sure when I'll get around to doing the remainder of the research
  205. # [13:26] <Smylers> annevk: Sure.
  206. # [13:27] <Smylers> annevk: In terms of what to tell somebody who's encountered this, would “The non-IE behaviour will be specified, but that part hasn't been written yet.” be accurate?
  207. # [13:28] <annevk> yeah I suppose
  208. # [13:29] <annevk> any eventual URL specification will closely resemble Gecko/Safari/Chrome (all subtly different unfortunately)
  209. # [13:29] <annevk> IE's URL parsing has many weird quirks
  210. # [13:30] <jgraham> Smylers: I think you tell them "You expected the most fundamental parts of the web platform to be well specified? Are you new here?"
  211. # [13:32] <jgraham> Smylers: You should also tell them that it could be worse; the TAG still haven't decided if http://example.org/ refers to a website or a car
  212. # [13:33] <jgraham> Or maybe they have now. Who knows
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  216. # [14:06] <Smylers> jgraham: The person in question isn't “here”, so whatever I tell him may well affect his view of the web standards process. I was trying not to alarm him too much.
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  219. # [14:09] <darobin> jgraham: actually, the question of what a URL refers to has in fact been resolved: http://faketag.org/a-101-on-the-range-of-the-http-dereference-function/
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  223. # [14:15] <Smylers> jgraham: They claim to've decided it here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jun/0039.html
  224. # [14:17] <Smylers> jgraham: Though I note that ‘solution’ describes itself as removing ambiguity. Of the three cases they list, (b) is “could be any resource” and (c) is “unknown” — which some people may still interpret as leaving a little ambiguity there.
  225. # [14:17] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.218.163)
  226. # [14:18] <darobin> Smylers: don't listen to www-tag — it's an usurpation of the real TAG! only read the faketag.org resolution, it's the only one that breaks the Web in all the right ways
  227. # [14:19] * Ms2ger raises an eyebrow
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  233. # [14:35] <jgraham> Smylers: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/14 suggests that the issue was discussed at a F2F a few months ago, and there was a TAG-Member only thread (I guess one should hide one's shame) questioning whether the issue is in fact still open
  234. # [14:35] * Quits: ^esc (~esc_ape@77.116.247.12.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  235. # [14:35] <jgraham> Still it does give the impression that they aren't sure if they are dereferencing their arse or their elbow
  236. # [14:37] <MikeSmith> jgraham: thanks for the link about pushing to hg from git
  237. # [14:38] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Yeah, it seems like all the actual code might be somewhat hidden
  238. # [14:38] <jgraham> But maybe we could ask them to reuse it
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  242. # [14:41] <jgraham> MikeSmith: BTW people on web-notifications are asking about publication status
  243. # [14:42] <jgraham> I imagine that is blocked by the lack of annevk
  244. # [14:42] <jgraham> Or, less specifically, the lack of a chir
  245. # [14:42] <jgraham> *chair
  246. # [14:42] <jgraham> But maybe you should say that since you are staff contact
  247. # [14:42] <jgraham> (I think)
  248. # [14:42] <Ms2ger> Did jgraham just volunteer to chair?
  249. # [14:42] <jgraham> Hahahaha
  250. # [14:45] <odinho> Ms2ger: Lots of voulenteering happening in this channel lately.
  251. # [14:45] <Ms2ger> odinho, oh yes, you were going to edit something, I just can't remember what...
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  254. # [14:55] <Ms2ger> jsbell--
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  256. # [14:58] <jgraham> ?
  257. # [14:59] <Ms2ger> Writing tests with some obscure test harness
  258. # [15:03] * Joins: ^esc (~esc_ape@178.115.249.128.wireless.dyn.drei.com)
  259. # [15:03] <jgraham> Ugh. Link?
  260. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> https://code.google.com/p/stringencoding/
  261. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> On another note
  262. # [15:04] * Quits: Areks (~Areks@rs.gridnine.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  263. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> > we ran into site compatibility issues
  264. # [15:04] <Ms2ger> Is there a compat problem?
  265. # [15:09] <jgraham> Oh, qunit, yuck
  266. # [15:10] <jgraham> Doesn't look too hard to convert though
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  282. # [15:44] <crocket> How can I make a web browser display consecutive whitespace characters?
  283. # [15:44] <crocket> They all collapse into one whitespace character.
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  285. # [15:48] <Lachy> crocket, depends on what you need to do that for. There are multiple methods
  286. # [15:49] * benbarnett1 is now known as benbarnett
  287. # [15:50] <Lachy> crocket, 1. <pre> </pre>. 2. Use CSS 'white-space' property, or 3. Use non-breaking spaces &nbsp;
  288. # [15:50] <crocket> Lachy, How do I apply a monospace font-family?
  289. # [15:51] <Lachy> CSS 'font-family' property, or the 'font' shorthand.
  290. # [15:52] <Lachy> crocket, if you're trying to markup code and want it displayed in a monospace font with whitespace preserved, then just use <pre>
  291. # [15:52] <Lachy> that's the default rendering
  292. # [15:55] <crocket> Lachy, What if I want a monospace serif font?
  293. # [15:58] <Lachy> crocket, lots of monospace fonts have serifs on the glyphs.
  294. # [15:59] <Lachy> but you can't declare both monospace and serif generic font families together
  295. # [16:01] <crocket> Lachy, That's unfortunate.
  296. # [16:01] <Lachy> crocket, you can name a specific font if you have one in mind
  297. # [16:01] <Lachy> But even Courier New has serifs, so I don't see the problem.
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  309. # [16:53] <Ms2ger> annevk, I guess you haven't set up the post-push hook for DOM yet?
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  314. # [17:25] <annevk> Ms2ger: no, I should
  315. # [17:25] <annevk> Ms2ger: that is, my plan is to update dom.spec.whatwg.org on push
  316. # [17:25] <Ms2ger> Good :)
  317. # [17:26] <annevk> I wanted to wait a bit for the W3C to reply to my inquiry
  318. # [17:26] <annevk> and then move on
  319. # [17:27] <annevk> with a timeout of about one more week, as I'm somewhat eager to do some spec updates
  320. # [17:27] <Ms2ger> I did a few
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  322. # [17:27] <annevk> I noticed you pushed to github already, nice :)
  323. # [17:27] * Joins: program247365 (~program24@cpe-72-231-249-95.buffalo.res.rr.com)
  324. # [17:28] <Ms2ger> hg-git works well enough
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  331. # [17:32] <jgraham> Hixie: I assume you don't object to your document.open-in-unload tests being submitted to W3C under the normal license for the testsuite? I adapted them to testharness.js
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  337. # [17:36] <Ms2ger> jgraham++
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  339. # [17:47] <Hixie> jgraham: sure
  340. # [17:47] <Hixie> jgraham: (what's the license? mit?)
  341. # [17:48] * Joins: Areks (~Areks@128-69-102-87.broadband.corbina.ru)
  342. # [17:49] <jgraham> Hixie: Dual W3C Testsuite / 3 clause BSD
  343. # [17:49] <Hixie> yeah, that's fine
  344. # [17:50] <jgraham> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-copyright.html
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  347. # [17:54] <jgraham> http://w3c-test.org/html/tests/submission/Opera/loading_web_pages/browsing_the_web/unloading_documents/document_open/
  348. # [17:55] <jgraham> I may have broken the tests of course, please let me know if I did
  349. # [17:56] <jgraham> (also, WTF, I just tried one of the tests in WebKit and got a QUOTA_EXCEEDED_ERR)
  350. # [17:56] <jgraham> OK, that's just 005
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  352. # [18:01] <Hixie> how can you get a storage exceeded error
  353. # [18:02] <Hixie> sweet lord, the tests now import tons of scripts
  354. # [18:02] <Hixie> i make no guarantees that they are valid
  355. # [18:02] <Hixie> (and i still don't understand why we have to do this rather than just exposing an API and using iframes)
  356. # [18:03] <jgraham> I'm not sure what you mean by "exposing an API and using iframes"
  357. # [18:03] <Hixie> oh i see, that's in fact what you do
  358. # [18:03] <Hixie> nevermind
  359. # [18:03] <Hixie> i didn't realise you renamed it too :-)
  360. # [18:04] <jgraham> Oh you mean 001.html -> 001-1.html
  361. # [18:04] <Hixie> yeah
  362. # [18:04] <Hixie> i also don't understand the quota error in 005
  363. # [18:04] <jgraham> Yeah, your tests are running in their own browsing context. New windows are slightly less evil than iframes for things that poke at the history
  364. # [18:04] <jgraham> Or document loading
  365. # [18:05] * Joins: izhak (~izhak@31.47.120.116)
  366. # [18:05] <Hixie> right
  367. # [18:12] <zewt> jgraham: more likely to trigger unrelated issues, though (popup blockers and not being allowed to open new windows--two issues I just hit trying to run that one)
  368. # [18:12] <zewt> (the first is easy enough to undo, the second i'd have to go play with obscure about:config stuff so I didn't bother)
  369. # [18:13] <jgraham> zewt: Right, alllowing popups from test sites does become necessary
  370. # [18:14] <Hixie> I really don't understand this quota problem
  371. # [18:14] <jgraham> But it can be a tab rather than a window
  372. # [18:14] <Hixie> is there some infinite loop going on or something?
  373. # [18:14] <zewt> jgraham: i have firefox set to never allow new windows or tabs; links always open in the same tab
  374. # [18:14] <zewt> (too many abusive sites trying to open new windows for every single link)
  375. # [18:14] <jgraham> zewt: Oh, well yeah I guess if you have weird non-standard configurations it is harder
  376. # [18:15] <zewt> one of those things i've never understood browsers allowing, since the abuse is so widespread and annoying
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  378. # [18:16] <jgraham> Hixie: So I note that 001 seems to give 012389 rather consistently in existing browsers
  379. # [18:16] <jgraham> Ignoring Opera which is clearly broken and IE which I would have to change computers to test
  380. # [18:16] <Hixie> yeah, several of the test cases give reliable results that differ from what i ended up requiring, but it turns out that if you examine what they're doing it is crazy and doesn't really work in all cases
  381. # [18:17] <Hixie> (gecko and webkit in particular actually do quite different things)
  382. # [18:17] * Joins: rworth (~rworth@189.86.64.82)
  383. # [18:17] <Hixie> (yet end up with similar results on some of the tests out of basically coincidence)
  384. # [18:18] <jgraham> OK
  385. # [18:18] <jgraham> I am always nervous when the spec doesn't match implementations
  386. # [18:18] <jgraham> Especially if they match each other
  387. # [18:18] <Hixie> none of the implementations actually match here
  388. # [18:18] <Hixie> see my rants on irc (i linked to them from the checkin comment) for more details
  389. # [18:19] <jgraham> But obviously this is an insane thing to rely on
  390. # [18:19] <Hixie> (though note that i didn't do exactly what i suggested i should do in those notes, in the end)
  391. # [18:20] <jgraham> Which probably means that only facebook, google and twitter depend on it ;)
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  424. # [19:08] <annevk> hmm
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  426. # [19:08] <annevk> github is annoyingly inconsistent with URLs
  427. # [19:09] * Joins: Druide_ (~Druid@p5B137CE7.dip.t-dialin.net)
  428. # [19:09] <annevk> /whatwg and /WHATWG both work
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  430. # [19:09] <annevk> as well as /whatWG and other crap
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  444. # [19:11] <zewt> okay, that's annoying
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  456. # [19:21] <ubitux> i don't understand what this http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#webvtt-cue-ruby-span is
  457. # [19:22] * Joins: danzik17 (~danzik17@ool-435606a9.dyn.optonline.net)
  458. # [19:24] <ubitux> anyone has a simple explanation about what to do with this?
  459. # [19:25] * Joins: hasather_ (~hasather_@cm-84.208.71.130.getinternet.no)
  460. # [19:25] <zewt> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-ruby-element
  461. # [19:25] <webben> ubitux: It's a way to put Ruby annotations in captions.
  462. # [19:26] <webben> ubitux: basically it's a type of oriental gloss: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_character
  463. # [19:28] <ubitux> oh ok
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  465. # [19:28] <ubitux> thanks
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  473. # [19:42] <ubitux> that will be kind of painful to support such format :(
  474. # [19:44] <zewt> (how? who? where? context :)
  475. # [19:44] <ubitux> outside a browser
  476. # [19:44] <ubitux> C app
  477. # [19:44] <ubitux> subtitles transcoding
  478. # [19:44] <ubitux> rendering
  479. # [19:44] <zewt> transcoding is easy enough (if the format you're converting to doesn't support it, you remove the unsupported feature)
  480. # [19:45] <ubitux> transcoding is one of the most difficult
  481. # [19:45] <ubitux> the worst being the rendering, closely related
  482. # [19:45] <ubitux> the problem is, for subtitles rendering, the only library we can use is libass
  483. # [19:45] <ubitux> so we basically need to convert webvtt markup to ASS one
  484. # [19:46] <zewt> not due to this feature--you already have to parse the cue text, and you remove nodes for unsupported features
  485. # [19:46] <zewt> (converting to another format for rendering is probably not the best approach, though it may be the quickest short-term)
  486. # [19:46] <ubitux> that's the only solution
  487. # [19:46] <ubitux> or maybe you want to write a subtitles rendering library?
  488. # [19:47] <ubitux> at the moment libass is the most mature one
  489. # [19:47] <zewt> how could it possibly be the only solution? :)
  490. # [19:47] <ubitux> well i don't really want to dedicate 5 yr of my life to rewrite a rendering engine
  491. # [19:48] <zewt> rendering subtitles isn't a 5-year project unless a codebase is catastrophically broken
  492. # [19:48] <Ms2ger> Who's to say it isn't so?
  493. # [19:48] <ubitux> libass still has font glyph issues
  494. # [19:48] <ubitux> font stuff is a complex matter
  495. # [19:49] <ubitux> mixed with blur, rotation and misc. other transformations
  496. # [19:49] <zewt> that's why you don't write a font renderer, you use a font rendering engine (like freetype)
  497. # [19:49] <ubitux> and now ruby and stuff..
  498. # [19:49] <ubitux> that's what libass does
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  500. # [19:50] <ubitux> libass is a "small" project of 10k lines
  501. # [19:51] <ubitux> the best move would be to fork it and make it supports the new vtt markup and stuff
  502. # [19:51] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@70-36-140-99.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  503. # [19:51] <ubitux> but that also means supporting CSS stuff
  504. # [19:51] <ubitux> and making available the access to the AST etc
  505. # [19:52] <ubitux> anyway, that's far from trivial
  506. # [19:52] <ubitux> i guess all of this is not really a problem for browsers
  507. # [19:52] <ubitux> but for anything else it is
  508. # [19:53] <zewt> (nothing is "trivial", and no matter what you do you need to support vtt's subset of CSS at some level)
  509. # [19:53] <ubitux> that's assuming browser will actually force the limit to these properties
  510. # [19:54] <ubitux> which won't happen and users will start abusing it quite quickl
  511. # [19:54] <ubitux> +y
  512. # [19:54] <gsnedders> ubitux: Do you have any evidence for that?
  513. # [19:54] <ubitux> well, that's what always happen
  514. # [19:55] <zewt> (i'm not assuming anything--no matter what you do, you need to be parsing CSS somewhere if you intend to support vtt's styling features at all)
  515. # [19:55] <ubitux> if even only one browser allows all the CSS stuff (because that's likely simpler), users WILL abuse it
  516. # [19:55] <zewt> whether that happens as part of a transcoding layer or closer to the renderer, it's got to be somewhere
  517. # [19:57] <ubitux> well anyway, requiring a CSS parser/matcher is kind of a problem
  518. # [19:57] <ubitux> of course, we can just ignore all that part
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  520. # [20:00] <ubitux> now if we assume we actually write that CSS stuff (which is unlikely because of the complexity) the rendering will require something at least as big as libass
  521. # [20:01] <ubitux> so well, this is why i said it will be kind of painful to support such format
  522. # [20:01] <ubitux> (outside the browser)
  523. # [20:01] <ubitux> (so any players or subtitles editor/converter)
  524. # [20:03] * Quits: annevk (~annevk@212.238.236.229) (Remote host closed the connection)
  525. # [20:03] <zewt> ... that's something any serious captioning format is going to need (though comparing to ass isn't accurate--it supports lots of stuff other formats, including vtt, don't, like karaoke effects)
  526. # [20:04] <ubitux> ass supports karaoke
  527. # [20:04] <ubitux> jacosub as well
  528. # [20:04] <zewt> what? i just said ass does and vtt doesn't :)
  529. # [20:05] <ubitux> i thought vtt did
  530. # [20:05] <zewt> (vtt has very basic "change color at this time", but not all the goofy effects people do with ass)
  531. # [20:05] <ubitux> vtt has features not supported by ASS
  532. # [20:05] <ubitux> so you can't really fallback on the now-not-fully-featured-enough-ASS-system
  533. # [20:06] <ubitux> OTOH, if a full featured (parsing/styles-and-events-AST-publicly-accessible/rendering/portable) libsubtitles/libwebvtt was available, all of that wouldn't be a problem
  534. # [20:06] <ubitux> but that's a long term project.
  535. # [20:06] <zewt> anyway, if what you want is every subtitle format to be a subset of what you already have so you don't have to implement anything, that's not likely to happen :)
  536. # [20:07] <ubitux> yes, and that's a problem ;)
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  538. # [20:07] <ubitux> at the moment most systems rely on the fact that almost all existing subtitles can be expressed as an ASS-subset
  539. # [20:07] <zewt> um, most systems don't support ass at all, heh
  540. # [20:08] <ubitux> and this is neat in the sense that there is a parsing/rendering lib to do all the stuff
  541. # [20:08] <ubitux> zewt: most players do
  542. # [20:08] <ubitux> they're using the libass rendering system for all the subtitles
  543. # [20:08] <ubitux> (except the simple formats)
  544. # [20:08] <ubitux> (sometimes)
  545. # [20:08] <zewt> you mean "desktop software"; set-top stuff rarely has usable support at all (wdtv claims support, and they lie--it's so incomplete it's unusable)
  546. # [20:09] <ubitux> i meant any app ≠ browsers
  547. # [20:10] <zewt> wdtv isn't a browser, heh
  548. # [20:10] <ubitux> so players like mplayer, vlc, possible the windows one (mpc?), as well as ffmpeg and such
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  550. # [20:10] <ubitux> dunno what wdtv is
  551. # [20:15] <ubitux> anyway, i guess the best way would be to start a subtitles library being able to represent any kind of style structures and related crazyness, as well as the rendering part
  552. # [20:15] <ubitux> possibly a libass fork
  553. # [20:15] <ubitux> and then port all the subtitles decoders and encoders to it
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  556. # [20:15] <ubitux> but this really is IMO a 5yr project
  557. # [20:16] <zewt> you're just not likely to get traction asking for all subtitle formats to be a subset of some particular library, which partially implements a particular weird ad hoc format
  558. # [20:16] <ubitux> just to support webvtt :)
  559. # [20:17] <zewt> i'd call it a project of a few months, if you can find a standalone css parsing/selector matching implementation
  560. # [20:17] <ubitux> zewt: i believe the main point of webvtt is to make a standard way of using subtitles accross the web, but i don't think it requires all that styling stuff
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  562. # [20:18] <zewt> stylesheets are always technically optional
  563. # [20:18] <ubitux> yes but they are used as the basis of most styles, such as coloring and stuff
  564. # [20:18] <zewt> what? i just agreed with you, heh
  565. # [20:18] <ubitux> this means not supporting them is kind of a problem
  566. # [20:18] <zewt> i didn't say it wasn't, it seemed that you did :)
  567. # [20:19] <ubitux> (oh and i'm omitting the charset/encoding stuff)
  568. # [20:19] <zewt> stylesheets are important for presentation (especially if the current hideous black-rectangle-behind-captions default doesn't change), but no, it's not required as such
  569. # [20:20] <zewt> encoding is straightforward; webvtt is always utf-8
  570. # [20:21] <zewt> you really can't ask for anything simpler than *that* :)
  571. # [20:22] <ubitux> ASCII!
  572. # [20:22] <zewt> not so simple for japanese users :P
  573. # [20:22] <ubitux> romanji is more than enough
  574. # [20:23] <ubitux> :)
  575. # [20:23] <zewt> really, though, if you want implementation advice, feel free to open a discussion on public-texttracks
  576. # [20:24] <zewt> (for example, suggestions of a standalone CSS implementation, which I don't have off the top of my head)
  577. # [20:25] <ubitux> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/SAC/ ?
  578. # [20:26] <zewt> don't know (you'd need a parser and selector matching, at least)
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  580. # [20:26] <ubitux> and then we will need a CSS rendering engine
  581. # [20:27] <zewt> and a robust enough API to allow iterating over :past/:future states and adding ::cue
  582. # [20:27] <ubitux> :/
  583. # [20:27] <zewt> no, you only need to be able to determine the state of properties at specific times (for example, font sizes aren't allowed to change once text is displayed, which simplifies a lot)
  584. # [20:29] <zewt> and the list of times at which properties change is finite, so i believe css rules + cues can be flattened to a simple list of states
  585. # [20:31] <zewt> anyway, i can't engineer this for you (and i need to eat), but again, mailing list :)
  586. # [20:33] <ubitux> i need to brainstorm by myself about what i really want indeed
  587. # [20:34] <ubitux> i think we will just make webvtt an equivalent of subrip with a lot of unsupported features
  588. # [20:34] <ubitux> and it will be more than enough :p
  589. # [20:35] <zewt> which implementation is this for, so I know what to avoid :P
  590. # [20:35] <ubitux> ffmpeg, and most likely will be used in the future by mplayer
  591. # [20:35] <ubitux> i believe vlc won't do anything more complicated as well
  592. # [20:36] <ubitux> and i don't think anything outside browsers will do as well
  593. # [20:36] <ubitux> at least not in the near future
  594. # [20:38] <zewt> (you're making me want to implement it for xbmc, so people have a good alternative)
  595. # [20:39] <ubitux> is xbmc linking with --enable-webkit?
  596. # [20:40] <ubitux> oh and btw, we can't actually rely on any library
  597. # [20:40] <ubitux> because what's the decoded packets for subtitles will contain the exploitable AST of the events & styles
  598. # [20:41] <ubitux> so it would require api user to link on that library as well, which is a problem
  599. # [20:41] <ubitux> so the full chain needs to be available
  600. # [20:41] <ubitux> as builtin
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  606. # [21:04] <zewt> no, and you seem to have a misunderstanding of the complexity of webvtt if you think you need webkit to render it
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  613. # [21:25] <annevk> so Instant Upload from Google+
  614. # [21:26] <Ms2ger> Google+ still exists?
  615. # [21:26] <annevk> is that known to fail when you attempt to upload 1500 at once?
  616. # [21:26] <zewt> is that the camera upload thing? because it's so un-instant i turned it off (useless)
  617. # [21:26] <annevk> it says "Starting upload..." but nothing happens
  618. # [21:27] <annevk> I'm not interested in paying Apple for iCloud so I figured I'd use this as backup instead, but it's rather crappy
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The end :)