/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-09-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 05 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #whatwg
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  7. # [00:14] <Hixie> zewt: even if it's just a message to say "this has passed to something that is a descendant worker of X" or "...not an ancestor of X" or whatnot, it's still essentially impossible because if you send something from X to A to B, the message that it got from A to B might not reach X until long after X has started sending messages using this feature
  8. # [00:15] <zewt> Hixie: it doesn't matter if otehr messages are sent first
  9. # [00:15] <zewt> or other, for that matter
  10. # [00:16] <Hixie> ok i'm reading your message to sicking now and i'm even more confused :-)
  11. # [00:16] <zewt> all this is intended to do is guarantee that deadlocks can't happen in a "block until a message is received" API
  12. # [00:16] <Hixie> suppose i create a message port
  13. # [00:16] <Hixie> can i send a blocking message?
  14. # [00:16] <zewt> there's no such thing as "sending a blocking message"
  15. # [00:16] <zewt> there's only "block until a message is received"
  16. # [00:16] <zewt> (a message is a message is a message)
  17. # [00:16] <Hixie> so suppose i create a message port
  18. # [00:17] <Hixie> can i block until i receive a message?
  19. # [00:17] <zewt> so long as the "blocking allowed" flag remains set
  20. # [00:17] <Hixie> but the other side of the port is by definition in the same thread, so that seems bad?
  21. # [00:18] <zewt> you mean the "blocking on a port when you hold both ports" case? that's handled separately (the final "additionally")
  22. # [00:19] <Hixie> ah, i see
  23. # [00:19] <Hixie> i assume when you say "When a MessagePort is transferred to the current thread" you mean to imply that the internal flags and states are also cloned?
  24. # [00:20] <Hixie> it's unclear whether you mean MessagePort or "port"
  25. # [00:20] <zewt> yes, the "blocking allowed" flag being cleared persists across clones
  26. # [00:20] <zewt> (once it's cleared it's cleared permanently)
  27. # [00:20] <Hixie> (MessagePort objects never actually change thread)
  28. # [00:20] <Hixie> ok...
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  31. # [00:21] <Hixie> and presumably this only happens in workers
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  33. # [00:21] <zewt> yes (it doesn't matter if it happens in the UI thread, since the getMessage API just won't exist there)
  34. # [00:22] <Hixie> by "this" i mean the API
  35. # [00:22] <zewt> also, this is only really relevant for dedicated workers; any time you transfer to a shared worker the final "otherwise" kicks in and no blocking is ever allowed
  36. # [00:22] <zewt> (in either direction)
  37. # [00:23] <Hixie> seems kinda weird, but if browsers are willing to implement it, i guess it's ok
  38. # [00:27] <zewt> (correcting above--this does need to happen for ports going to the UI thread, since the other port is probably still inside a worker)
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  50. # [01:21] <cpearce> annevk: ping
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  77. # [02:14] <nattokirai> heycam: ping
  78. # [02:15] <heycam> nattokirai, pong
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  97. # [03:12] <crocket> Does mozilla developer network provide proper learning materials for HTML, CSS, and javscript?
  98. # [03:12] <crocket> w3schools is said to suck.
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  100. # [03:13] <zewt> w3schools was the first site i blocked on google as soon as google grew that feature
  101. # [03:13] <zewt> can't speak for learning materials but mdn is usually okay as a reference
  102. # [03:14] <MikeSmith> MDN has some how-to docs as well
  103. # [03:14] <MikeSmith> gimme a minute
  104. # [03:15] <MikeSmith> MDN JavaScript Guide: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Guide
  105. # [03:15] <crocket> MDN seems to contain firefox-specific extensions.
  106. # [03:15] <zewt> (browsing mdn tends to not be so good, feels like a bunch of isolated pages connected by huge indexes, but fine for individual things reached through goog)
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  108. # [03:16] <MikeSmith> crocket: yeah it has some things like that but generally they're clearly marked
  109. # [03:17] <MikeSmith> and it now includes a lot of information about things like implementation status in all major browsers
  110. # [03:17] <MikeSmith> not just Firefox
  111. # [03:18] <MikeSmith> the other thing is, for pretty much every bug that gets created for implementing a new standards feature, a "needs docs" flag gets added to the bug
  112. # [03:18] <crocket> Does <body> have border property?
  113. # [03:19] <zewt> quickest way to answer questions like that is to try it :)
  114. # [03:20] <zewt> (randomly makes me think back on something I hit a few months ago, trying to have a width: 100%; height: 100%; border: 1px whatever; body and hitting the "100% + 2px" problem; guess I should revisit that using box-sizing)
  115. # [03:20] <MikeSmith> crocket: what zewt said
  116. # [03:21] <zewt> (technically I said one relevant thing and one rambling, obscure thing; go with the first)
  117. # [03:21] <MikeSmith> open up Firebug or Web Inspector on any page, go in and add a "body { border: 5px solid green}" CSS rule
  118. # [03:21] <MikeSmith> and see what happens
  119. # [03:22] <crocket> meh
  120. # [03:23] <MikeSmith> anyway, the Mozilla docs team goes in and adds docs to MDN for all new standards feature every time any new feature is implemented in Firefox
  121. # [03:23] <zewt> if you're not willing to try things out for yourself, you'll have difficulty in any platform :)
  122. # [03:23] <crocket> zewt, I'll try
  123. # [03:23] <MikeSmith> MDN CSS guide: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/CSS/Getting_Started
  124. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> or https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/CSS is better
  125. # [03:24] <MikeSmith> bunch of tutorial docs linked to there
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  128. # [03:32] <MikeSmith> crocket: you can also use http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/#validate_by_input to test whether a particular CSS is valid or not
  129. # [03:33] <crocket> MikeSmith, ok
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  137. # [04:10] <crocket> How do I use "inspect element" feature in firefox to modify CSS?
  138. # [04:10] <crocket> I tried, but it doesn't work.
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  141. # [04:17] <crocket> What tag do I use to specify properties of a part of a sentence?
  142. # [04:18] <crocket> <span.?
  143. # [04:18] <crocket> <span>?
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  146. # [04:35] <Oliver_> Hello everyone!
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  150. # [04:49] <divya> care to explain what "properties" mean crocket ?
  151. # [04:49] <crocket> divya, font-size
  152. # [04:50] <crocket> font-weight
  153. # [04:50] <crocket> such things
  154. # [04:50] <divya> ya span would do
  155. # [04:50] <crocket> divya, But span looks dirty.
  156. # [04:50] <divya> o?
  157. # [04:50] <crocket> Do I have a neater way?
  158. # [04:50] <divya> use <u>, <i> or <b>? but they all ahve default properties set
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  160. # [04:58] <crocket> divya, how about <div>?
  161. # [04:58] <divya> wat no
  162. # [04:58] <crocket> divya, why not?
  163. # [04:58] <divya> because it is for a division
  164. # [04:58] <divya> a block level alteration
  165. # [04:58] <divya> not for inline content
  166. # [04:58] <crocket> divya, I don't know what it means yet.
  167. # [04:58] <divya> then checkout MDN
  168. # [04:59] <crocket> divya, What do <h1>, <h2>, ... mean?
  169. # [04:59] <crocket> I don't understand the meaning of numbers.
  170. # [04:59] <divya> go to MDN that MikeSmith linked to
  171. # [04:59] <divya> and read up on html page.
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  255. # [10:51] <annevk> cpearce: I was indeed
  256. # [10:53] <cpearce> annevk: yeah, I was going to ask whether object-fit:contain on the :fullscreen style is supposed to only apply to <img> elements which are fullscreen?
  257. # [10:55] <cpearce> object-fit is only mentioned here: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/#object-fit which implies it's image only, I just wanted to check,
  258. # [10:56] <cpearce> since we've had a few bugs filed against gecko recently regarding scrolling fullscreen content, and that's relevant here.
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  262. # [11:05] <annevk> also for <video> and such
  263. # [11:05] <annevk> especially video
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  265. # [11:09] <odinho> annevk: XHR testsuite: He updated it a bit, but yeah, nothing great. He wrote a few extra tests. And found a few bugs that he wrote in a document.
  266. # [11:10] <Ms2ger> Hey, a few is better than none
  267. # [11:13] <annevk> odinho: spec bugs?
  268. # [11:13] <odinho> annevk: testsuite bugs :P And browser ofc bugs.
  269. # [11:13] <annevk> ah good
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  284. # [11:57] <Ms2ger> c = new(window.ActiveXObject || XMLHttpRequest)("Microsoft.XMLHTTP")
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  303. # [13:02] <annevk> Ms2ger: so that fails in everything but IE?
  304. # [13:03] <Ms2ger> Nah, extra arguments are ignored
  305. # [13:03] <Ms2ger> Only we have a dictionary argument in that spot
  306. # [13:03] <annevk> right
  307. # [13:03] <annevk> and we wanted to maybe change the whole AnonXMLHttpRequest design to use that dictionary instead
  308. # [13:04] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  309. # [13:04] <annevk> I guess someone will keep me posted
  310. # [13:04] <annevk> is anyone else going to maintain XHR or should we WHATWG that too?
  311. # [13:05] <Ms2ger> I guess
  312. # [13:06] <annevk> that could apply to either option :p
  313. # [13:07] <Ms2ger> No idea who would maintain it at the W3C
  314. # [13:07] <Ms2ger> darobin?
  315. # [13:08] <darobin> no idea either
  316. # [13:08] <darobin> annevk: I presume you haven't heard back on your post?
  317. # [13:08] <annevk> nope
  318. # [13:08] <darobin> let me figure this one out
  319. # [13:09] <annevk> in 2006 or so timbl told rigo to make it happen, instead of being a lawyer and doing as told, rigo objected and nothing happened
  320. # [13:09] <annevk> it prolly then escalated at some point within the Team
  321. # [13:10] <annevk> and the Team being lame instead of making a decision they put it forward to the AC
  322. # [13:10] <annevk> which is where all good ideas go to die
  323. # [13:10] <annevk> 400 people are not going to embrace change
  324. # [13:11] <darobin> that's not exactly what happened, but I can't say I disagree with the sentiment
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  329. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> there were actually only 24 AC reps who responded to the survey about the document license
  330. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> out of 350-400 or so AC reps
  331. # [13:41] <MikeSmith> so it's hardly like there was even a resounding mandate on it from the AC
  332. # [13:43] <MikeSmith> all that the survey really indicated is that we had 300+ other AC reps who didn't feel strongly enough about it either way to take the time to respond with their opinions
  333. # [13:45] <odinho> Oh, that doesn't sound very good.
  334. # [13:46] <MikeSmith> hmm
  335. # [13:47] <darobin> more importantly, the question was IMHO phrased completely wrong
  336. # [13:48] <MikeSmith> I guess I shouldn't say anything more
  337. # [13:48] <darobin> it was put forth as a possible exemption granted only to the HTML WG, which is silly because there's no reason any group should have an exemption, and it's a political hot button to boot
  338. # [13:49] <MikeSmith> yeah
  339. # [13:49] <darobin> IMHO, and like Mike I don't want to speak out too much on this just yet, it should be up to individual groups to select which licence to use
  340. # [13:49] <darobin> groups do the work, they have the stakeholders, they should make the call
  341. # [13:49] <MikeSmith> 100% agreed about that personally
  342. # [13:50] <MikeSmith> and within groups, editors do the hands-on editing work
  343. # [13:50] <MikeSmith> anyway I'm realizing now I can't remember how much of the details are still secret
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  348. # [13:51] <darobin> the number of respondents probably was :-p
  349. # [13:51] <MikeSmith> yeah
  350. # [13:51] <darobin> the rest I already knew, so it probably wasn't
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  353. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> anyway I'm not sure about that number
  354. # [13:54] <MikeSmith> I could be plain wrong and thinking about something else
  355. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> and I can't document it so doesn't matter anyway
  356. # [13:55] <MikeSmith> people shouldn't listen to what I say
  357. # [13:56] <Ms2ger> Yay W3C: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JulSep/0264.html
  358. # [13:57] <annevk> I wanted to click on that, but then realized I no longer can :/
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  360. # [14:00] <Ms2ger> You're not missing much
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  363. # [14:04] <jgraham> Ms2ger: I think what you meant to say was "Oh well then you missed out on life-changing information"
  364. # [14:04] <jgraham> But with more commas
  365. # [14:08] <Ms2ger> Well, I can't tell him what you get when you dereference that eleph^WIRI, so we'll never know if it would have been life-changing
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  378. # [14:57] <annevk> MikeSmith: you around still?
  379. # [14:57] <MikeSmith> yeah
  380. # [14:57] <annevk> MikeSmith: what are you going to cover next week?
  381. # [14:57] <annevk> MikeSmith: and are we going to prepare in one way or another together?
  382. # [14:58] <MikeSmith> in part I'm going to talk about recent HTML WG developments, so we're definitely not going to have overlap there
  383. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> but we should get together to compare notes
  384. # [14:59] <MikeSmith> I'm otherwise planning to talk about new features at a pretty high level
  385. # [14:59] <darobin> maybe it would be more entertaining if you let annevk cover the HTML WG instead
  386. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> and implementation status
  387. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> heh
  388. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> yeah that would definitely be entertaining
  389. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> I'm going to work from the list of specs at http://platform.html5.org/specs/a
  390. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> http://platform.html5.org/specs/
  391. # [15:00] <MikeSmith> and http://platform.html5.org/
  392. # [15:01] <annevk> okay
  393. # [15:01] <MikeSmith> and http://www.w3.org/Mobile/mobile-web-app-state/ too probably
  394. # [15:02] <MikeSmith> maybe also talk about http://ringmark.io/
  395. # [15:02] <Ms2ger> Hah
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  397. # [15:02] <annevk> sounds good
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  399. # [15:02] <annevk> maybe I'll do my code point / byte talk for something a little bit more low level
  400. # [15:02] * darobin isn't sure he'd cover RingMark, it's not really finalised atm IMHO
  401. # [15:03] <jgraham> I wouldn't say anything nice about RingMark at least :)
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  403. # [15:06] <jgraham> I guess I should qualify that with in-principle I have no problem with the idea of a graded set of targets for browsers to implement based on developer priorities
  404. # [15:06] <jgraham> But the reality of ringmark is highly non-ideal
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  407. # [15:11] <tantek> indeed, last I checked the ringmark folks were including all kinds of "-webkit-" properties as part of their "platform/standard"
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  411. # [15:16] * darobin is now out of CoreMob, won't comment :)
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  448. # [16:48] <annevk> MikeSmith: when are you in the Netherlands?
  449. # [16:49] <annevk> MikeSmith: middle of next week?
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  452. # [16:59] <MikeSmith> annevk: arriving on the 13th at around 8pm
  453. # [16:59] <annevk> ah okay, so quite late :)
  454. # [16:59] <MikeSmith> yeah
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  463. # [17:41] <dglazkov> good morning, Whatwg!
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  467. # [17:54] <Hixie> lol, the only thing that has happened in the last 5 days on the w3c html wg specs is that they've removed the form for sending feedback and removed links to the whatwg
  468. # [17:54] <Ms2ger> They hadn't done that yet?
  469. # [17:55] <Hixie> seems not
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  471. # [17:56] <annevk> I have the feeling that's about the same that happened to the CSSOM in the last, well, I stopped counting
  472. # [17:58] <annevk> the way the CSS WG uses version control these days makes it hard to view progress for a single spec
  473. # [17:58] <annevk> or maybe there is a way that I don't know
  474. # [17:59] <Ms2ger> I love how Bert always has four commits per change
  475. # [17:59] <annevk> maybe http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/log/tip/cssom/Overview.html
  476. # [18:00] <Hixie> TabAtkins: is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jul/0014.html being tracked? it doesn't look like it got a formal reply
  477. # [18:01] <annevk> doesn't look like much happened
  478. # [18:01] <annevk> just some moving things around
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  482. # [18:10] <Ms2ger> Adam Sobieski? I think I've seen that name before...
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  484. # [18:12] <Hixie> does _anyone_ implement the dnd addElement() properly?
  485. # [18:13] <Ms2ger> I doubt it
  486. # [18:13] <Ms2ger> It's dnd
  487. # [18:14] <TabAtkins> Hixie: I don't remember seeing this! It looks like his use-cases are all addressed by :user-error now (the official name for :moz-ui-invalid).
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  494. # [18:19] <jwalden> given the dnd spec is so wrong, it's not a surprise implementations are wrong</troll>
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  496. # [18:19] <jwalden> :-)
  497. # [18:20] <jgraham> Hixie: Got a test?
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  503. # [18:31] <Hixie> TabAtkins: k, thanks
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  505. # [18:31] <Hixie> jwalden: it's not wrong :-P
  506. # [18:31] <Hixie> jgraham: live dom viewer download
  507. # [18:31] <jwalden> success troll!
  508. # [18:32] <Hixie> looks like the browsers that support addElement() just treat it like setDragImage(), and they allow any element to be passed to setDragImage()
  509. # [18:33] <Hixie> i wonder if a should just remove addElement(), or leave it as an alias to setDragImage()
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  512. # [18:34] <Hixie> webkit doesn't have addElement()
  513. # [18:35] <Hixie> (which is weird because i could have sworn it webkit documentation that i got it from)
  514. # [18:35] <Hixie> firefox treats it as setDragImage() without coordinates
  515. # [18:35] <Hixie> opera doesn't do anything with it but seems to not fire an error message
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  517. # [18:38] <Hixie> i'm just gonna drop it
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  562. # [19:34] <miketaylr> are we going to get something like srcList (DOMTokenList) for srcset? slicing up strings by hand doesn't sound fun
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  568. # [19:40] <Hixie> miketaylr: i've been asking people on whatwg@ for use cases for script manipulation
  569. # [19:40] <Hixie> miketaylr: so far nobody has described anything concrete
  570. # [19:41] <Hixie> miketaylr: when they do, i'll try to design an api that makes sense for it
  571. # [19:41] <miketaylr> fair enough
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  574. # [19:42] <miketaylr> Hixie: fwiw, i don't have one either.
  575. # [19:42] <Hixie> yeah, i couldn't come up with one either, even a theoretical oe
  576. # [19:42] <Hixie> constructing it, sure
  577. # [19:42] <Hixie> but reading it?
  578. # [19:42] <Hixie> someone suggested it would be good to have a way to force a specific one to be selected
  579. # [19:43] <Hixie> but again, that seems easier to do by just constructing a srcset with only the value you want
  580. # [19:43] <Hixie> that to use an api
  581. # [19:43] <miketaylr> my use case: if any of the filenames have the string "dog" in them, change them to a cat picture.
  582. # [19:43] <miketaylr> nailed it.
  583. # [19:43] <Hixie> you can do that today without any more of an api that .srcset :-)
  584. # [19:43] <miketaylr> heh
  585. # [19:43] <Hixie> .srcset.replace() or whatever the right regexp is
  586. # [19:46] <miketaylr> guess we can wait for srcsetQuery to pave some cowpaths
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  591. # [19:52] <Hixie> annevk, Ms2ger: so for seamless="" we need to fire events (e.g. mouse and key events, focus events) across the iframe boundary so that the outer page doesn't miss events
  592. # [19:52] <Hixie> annevk, Ms2ger: e.g. if the user has focus in a seamless iframe but presses an accesskey="" key or onkeypress="" key set up in the outer frame
  593. # [19:52] <Hixie> annevk, Ms2ger: or if the user has a dialog and drags it across the inner iframe, so that the page doesn't lose track of where the mouse is during the drag
  594. # [19:53] <Hixie> annevk, Ms2ger: this seems like it'd require pretty invasive changes to the event model, is it something you want to do instead of having me try to patch it in the html spec?
  595. # [19:53] <Hixie> annevk, Ms2ger: (i can provide a link to feedback on the topic if you're interested)
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  597. # [19:54] <annevk> you can't just dispatch the events again?
  598. # [19:55] <Hixie> no, because you want the capture phase on the outer frame to happen before the inner frame
  599. # [19:55] <Hixie> and stopPropagation has to work across both events
  600. # [19:55] <Hixie> and they have to be different Event objects
  601. # [19:55] <Hixie> and mouse event coordinates need to be adjusted
  602. # [19:55] <Ms2ger> Can you just mess with the propagation chain?
  603. # [19:55] <Hixie> and it has to work at multiple levels
  604. # [19:56] <Hixie> (consider multiple nested iframes)
  605. # [19:56] <Ms2ger> Oh, hmm, adjusting coordinates sounds like fun
  606. # [19:56] <annevk> hmm, sounds like something for HTML to define as DOM does not know about Window
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  608. # [19:56] <Hixie> and also this might end up being a very similar system as for web components
  609. # [19:56] <annevk> alternatively, you could merge all of DOM into HTML and maintain both ;)
  610. # [19:56] <Hixie> you guys keep taking stuff out, it's too late to give it back :-P
  611. # [19:57] <Hixie> is there some way you guys could spec all that but just provide a hook for me to say what the objects are that should get the events fired on and stuff? so you don't have to know about Window/iframe/seamless?
  612. # [19:58] <Hixie> that seems like it'd be the best solution
  613. # [19:58] <annevk> 1) DOM does not have mouse events
  614. # [19:58] <Hixie> well, nothing has mouse events currently
  615. # [19:59] <Hixie> not properly specced, anyway
  616. # [19:59] <annevk> yeah :/
  617. # [19:59] <annevk> definitely not signing up for that at this point though
  618. # [20:01] <Ms2ger> Hey, you'll get mouseevents.spec.whatwg.org if you do!
  619. # [20:02] <annevk> teehee, more domain names
  620. # [20:02] <annevk> Hixie: not exactly sure what you'd want DOM to define
  621. # [20:02] <annevk> Hixie: some kind of pausing in dispatch and a more global stop propagation flag?
  622. # [20:03] <annevk> Hixie: some kind of bug report with the details and the link to the use case is prolly best, can't really give an ETA
  623. # [20:04] <Hixie> basically a way to say "when an event is dispatched in this browsing context, the following tree of trees is to be used as the chain: ..." and then you deal with all the cloning events, checking dispatch cancelation and so on, and have a hook for when the event is retargetted so that event definitions can say what happens to their values and stuff
  624. # [20:04] <Hixie> k
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  633. # [20:17] <Hixie> anne: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18780
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  639. # [20:23] <smaug____> Hixie: I thought event re-targeting was discarded
  640. # [20:23] <smaug____> (for seamless)
  641. # [20:26] <smaug____> that is at least who I interpret the email thread about it
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  643. # [20:26] * smaug____ comments on the bug
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  649. # [20:37] <dsheets> wow… ms on public-fx… wow...
  650. # [20:37] * Parts: PrgmrBill (~PrgmrBill@unaffiliated/prgmrbill) ("kbye")
  651. # [20:38] <jamesr> they're in the CSS WG and that is a joint deliverable between CSS and SVG
  652. # [20:40] <dsheets> not their membership… their approach
  653. # [20:41] <dsheets> doesn't seem very savvy
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  656. # [20:49] <Hixie> smaug____: what part of the thread suggested it was discarded?
  657. # [20:49] <Hixie> smaug____: i don't see anything to suggest that, but maybe i missed something
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  660. # [20:49] <smaug____> Hixie: I sent email explaining the problems
  661. # [20:49] <Hixie> url?
  662. # [20:49] <smaug____> and dglazkov said "We should probably recreate an event object at each seamless frame boundary."
  663. # [20:50] <Hixie> right
  664. # [20:50] <Hixie> retargetting always involves new objects
  665. # [20:50] <Hixie> you can't reuse the objects
  666. # [20:50] <smaug____> no
  667. # [20:50] <smaug____> retargeting is retargeting
  668. # [20:51] <Hixie> ok well call it whatever you want :-)
  669. # [20:51] <smaug____> but ok, perhaps we do agree what should be done :)
  670. # [20:51] <Hixie> i'm talking about dispatching events at multiple scopes, with new objects at each level
  671. # [20:51] <Hixie> same as xbl
  672. # [20:51] <smaug____> right
  673. # [20:51] <smaug____> well, not same as xbl1
  674. # [20:52] * smaug____ doesn't remember what shadow DOM does
  675. # [20:52] <smaug____> Shadow DOM: "In the cases where events cross the shadow boundaries, the event's information about the target of the event is adjusted in order to maintain upper boundary encapsulation."
  676. # [20:53] <smaug____> so it is closer to XBL1
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  696. # [21:56] <Hixie> heycam|away: yt?
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  705. # [22:17] <deane> Hixie: He's probably not there as it was only 07:49 here. Not sure when he would start work.
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  744. # [23:24] <jkew> Mildly dumb question; is there an xml namespace for microdata? Is it considered harmful?
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  750. # [23:28] <gavinc> jkew: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-microdata-rdf-20120112/ may help you, or make you more confused
  751. # [23:28] <gavinc> see http://www.w3.org/ns/md# it's not an XML namespace, but it is a well known URI
  752. # [23:28] * mattgiff_ is now known as mattgifford_
  753. # [23:29] <gavinc> err, should have been http://www.w3.org/TR/microdata-rdf/
  754. # [23:29] <gavinc> sorry
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  775. # Session Close: Thu Sep 06 00:00:00 2012

The end :)