/irc-logs / freenode / #whatwg / 2012-09-09 / end

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  93. # [08:05] <adlwalrus1> Are the *all* of the "special-"/"control-" characters in HTML represented by the class [<!>"'=/&] ?
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  227. # [19:52] <GPHemsley> annevk: So, does that mean there is no consensus on DOM0? Has there been any attempt to document existing behavior (rather than standardize to an ideal that hasn't been implemented)? Have there been any efforts to remove unused legacy items?
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  232. # [20:01] <GPHemsley> Also, is (window.)navigator obsolete, or what?
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  247. # [20:59] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Is the Navigator object (as documented in 7.5.1) intended to encourage modern continued usage? The non-legacy values (particular for appName and appVersion) seem to suggest so.
  248. # [20:59] <GPHemsley> 7.5.1.1 in particular
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  250. # [21:08] <GPHemsley> Hixie: Trying to determine the appropriate action for this bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61071
  251. # [21:13] <jgraham> GPHemsley: There are other uses for navigator as well as the app* stuff
  252. # [21:13] <jgraham> e.g. geoloaction lives under navigator
  253. # [21:13] <jgraham> *geolocation
  254. # [21:13] <GPHemsley> jgraham: Yeah, that original question is obsolete now :P
  255. # [21:14] <jgraham> I don't think the spec makes a relative value judgement between the various options for those properties
  256. # [21:15] <jgraham> But I would be very reluctant to change the values myself
  257. # [21:15] <jgraham> It seems likely to cause breakage for no good reason
  258. # [21:15] <GPHemsley> Well, it would help if it made clear whether the implementation is only for legacy value, or if there is intention afoot to bring it back into modernity
  259. # [21:16] <GPHemsley> because the description of "a string representing the version of the browser in detail" does not match Firefox's current value for appVersion, which is also not "4.0"
  260. # [21:16] <GPHemsley> so, the way I'm reading the spec right now, Firefox is not in compliance with this section
  261. # [21:17] <GPHemsley> (full)
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  263. # [21:18] <GPHemsley> in an unrelated question: where are the tests that the spec's section tags refer to, and why aren't they linked directly?
  264. # [21:20] <GPHemsley> while we're looking at this section, is there some sort of guideline for determining whether "the platform on which the browser is executing" is formatted properly? What if different browsers specify the same platform differently?
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  297. # [22:51] <annevk> GPHemsley: not sure why we need consensus on DOM0
  298. # [22:51] <annevk> GPHemsley: we just need to document the platform
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  300. # [22:52] <annevk> GPHemsley: DOM0 is just some historical term to mean everything not in DOM and JavaScript at the time of writing (back in '98 or whatever)
  301. # [22:52] <GPHemsley> ok, wasn't clear on that
  302. # [22:52] <GPHemsley> (no docs ;))
  303. # [22:53] <GPHemsley> annevk: feel free to answer all my other questions, though :P
  304. # [22:54] <annevk> GPHemsley: not sure what you mean with document existing behavior versus standardize an ideal
  305. # [22:54] <annevk> GPHemsley: do you have an example of the former and one of the latter?
  306. # [22:54] <annevk> GPHemsley: and we have removed plenty of stuff
  307. # [22:55] <annevk> GPHemsley: see various "remove" bugs filed on browsers (some by me)
  308. # [22:55] <annevk> Ms2ger fixed some for Gecko
  309. # [22:56] <smaug____> GPHemsley: no one is standardizing the ideal
  310. # [22:56] <smaug____> expect perhaps with new APIs
  311. # [22:57] <GPHemsley> annevk: I was just trying to clarify where DOM0 stood in the spectrum of specifications (since older specs tended to ignore the current behavior and standardize the ideal).
  312. # [22:57] <GPHemsley> I wasn't accusing anyone of anything :)
  313. # [22:57] <annevk> GPHemsley: DOM0 is not a spec
  314. # [22:57] <annevk> GPHemsley: and DOM1-3 are obsolete
  315. # [22:57] <GPHemsley> well, that was part of what I was clarifying ;)
  316. # [22:58] <GPHemsley> annevk: So, does DOM4 (and the other specs before it) spec the entirety of the DOM, or just subsets?
  317. # [22:59] <GPHemsley> I'm not clear on the line of succession
  318. # [22:59] <annevk> GPHemsley: it's prolly best to start from http://platform.html5.org and find out if you have a feature in a browser that's not covered by the specs mentioned there
  319. # [23:00] <annevk> GPHemsley: http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ is pretty clear on what it replaces
  320. # [23:00] <GPHemsley> alright, nevermind all that
  321. # [23:00] <annevk> GPHemsley: what is left in limbo at the moment are UI Events
  322. # [23:00] <GPHemsley> my current questions right now are about Navigator
  323. # [23:00] <annevk> but we'll get to those eventually
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  325. # [23:00] <GPHemsley> which is in the HTML spec
  326. # [23:01] <GPHemsley> well, actually, I have more questions
  327. # [23:02] <GPHemsley> are DOM1 and DOM0 mutually exclusive?
  328. # [23:02] <GPHemsley> as in, DOM0 + DOM1 + JS = state of the browser in '98?
  329. # [23:02] <annevk> spec != term, so yes
  330. # [23:02] <annevk> well + HTTP + HTML + CSS
  331. # [23:03] <GPHemsley> right
  332. # [23:03] <GPHemsley> ok
  333. # [23:03] <GPHemsley> so, was DOM0 documented somewhere? or just bits and pieces everywhere?
  334. # [23:04] <annevk> what do you mean by documented?
  335. # [23:04] <annevk> I don't really understand what you're trying to find out
  336. # [23:04] <GPHemsley> like, the way the HTML spec is now
  337. # [23:04] <annevk> I just told you there was no spec
  338. # [23:05] <GPHemsley> ok, so then I should take that as a "no"?
  339. # [23:05] <annevk> documented, most likely, in spec form, no
  340. # [23:05] <GPHemsley> ok
  341. # [23:05] <GPHemsley> so moving on to the Navigator object
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  343. # [23:07] <annevk> what's in the spec now is in draft and somewhat contradictory
  344. # [23:07] <GPHemsley> oh?
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  346. # [23:07] <GPHemsley> how so?
  347. # [23:07] <annevk> well can't ask for the version of the browser in detail and warn at the same time that could be used for profiling
  348. # [23:08] <annevk> none of that seems entirely finished to me, mostly because nobody has implemented this from the spec
  349. # [23:08] <annevk> the spec was written with the implementations in mind, but it hasn't been fed back into the implementations
  350. # [23:08] <annevk> at least as far as I know
  351. # [23:09] <annevk> anyway, I'm gonna get some sleep
  352. # [23:09] <GPHemsley> ah, ok
  353. # [23:09] <GPHemsley> which tests are used for the WHATWG version of the spec?
  354. # [23:10] <GPHemsley> the W3C ones?
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  363. # Session Close: Mon Sep 10 00:00:01 2012

The end :)